[_ Old Earth _] Evolutionism and Evolution; some essential differences

[brujaq]

Science and creation, the natural was called from the supernatural ..The natural exists in time, the Beginning then the End .. God the creator exists outside of time from the everlasting to the everlasting .. Evolution is a lie , sweet and seductive , it has wrecked the faith and condemned millions of souls that they have been taught/convinced and exchanged the truth of God for the lie ..

 

[Randy]

I don't see how Jesus, repeating figurative language makes it into a literal history.

IT certainly strengthens not weakens the accounting. Especially when Jesus uses the accounting for a legal ruling and judgments made and He is the judge.
Ref:Matt 19:4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'

 

[Barbarian]

If Jesus genealogy was recorded in the Word of God twice, once through his mothers line back to king David then back to Adam and Eve

Both of the contradictory genealogies were presented as through Joseph. So that won't work, either.

 

[brujaq]

One he was begotten , the other he was Joseph, husband of Mary

 

[Barbarian]

Science and creation, the natural was called from the supernatural .

Very true.

The natural exists in time, the Beginning then the End .. God the creator exists outside of time from the everlasting to the everlasting

Very true.

Evolution is a lie

It's directly observed. It is God's creation, and He does not lie. You are quite wrong in this.

Creationism has wrecked the faith and condemned millions of souls that they have been taught/convinced and assumed that because creationism is false, that God is also a false. Glenn Morton is a scientist and devoted Christian, a graduate of the Institute for Creation Research, and a former YE creationist. He describes how YE creationism destroys faith and turns people from God.

But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.


"From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true? ,"


That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said 'No!' A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, "Wait a minute. There has to be one!" But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.

And being through with creationism, I very nearly became through with Christianity. I was on the very verge of becoming an atheist.
http://www.oldearth.org/whyileft.htm

 

[Barbarian]

One he was begotten , the other he was Joseph, husband of Mary

That's not what it says. If you have to rearrange scripture to make it work for you, isn't that an important clue for you?

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian muses:
I don't see how Jesus, repeating figurative language makes it into a literal history.

IT certainly strengthens not weakens the accounting.

What it doesn't do, is convert it from a parable to a literal history, and his words document that:

Ref:Matt 19:4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,"

God makes it very plain what was there at the beginning, (Genesis 1:1) and neither male nor female were there. Jesus is speaking of the creation of our race, not the beginning of all creation.

 

[brujaq]

Very true.



Very true.



It's directly observed. It is God's creation, and He does not lie. You are quite wrong in this.

Creationism has wrecked the faith and condemned millions of souls that they have been taught/convinced and assumed that because creationism is false, that God is also a false. Glenn Morton is a scientist and devoted Christian, a graduate of the Institute for Creation Research, and a former YE creationist. He describes how YE creationism destroys faith and turns people from God.

But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.


"From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true? ,"


That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said 'No!' A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, "Wait a minute. There has to be one!" But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.

And being through with creationism, I very nearly became through with Christianity. I was on the very verge of becoming an atheist.
http://www.oldearth.org/whyileft.htm

I'm sorry you turned back from the truth, it has happened to millions and you're right in one thing , God does not lie .. But while we're at it could you explain how radiometric dating dated fresh new formed rock at Mt St Helens thousands up to 2,000 000 yrs old or carbon testing from the same frozen animal showing thousands of years difference .. And don't forget the missing link ..Where did you put that thing ?

 

[brujaq]

That's not what it says. If you have to rearrange scripture to make it work for you, isn't that an important clue for you?

Dude , you couldn't even understand why whales were not present on the Ark ..

 

[dirtfarmer]

Barbarian muses:
I don't see how Jesus, repeating figurative language makes it into a literal history.



What it doesn't do, is convert it from a parable to a literal history, and his words document that:

Ref:Matt 19:4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,"

God makes it very plain what was there at the beginning, (Genesis 1:1) and neither male nor female were there. Jesus is speaking of the creation of our race, not the beginning of all creation.

hello Barbarian, dirtfarmer here

Scripture states in Genesis 1:1 that God created the heavens and the earth. Can you tell me what was before the beginning? This sounds to me as if it is the beginning of all creation.

 

[Randy]

Barbarian muses:
I don't see how Jesus, repeating figurative language makes it into a literal history.



What it doesn't do, is convert it from a parable to a literal history, and his words document that:

Ref:Matt 19:4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,"

God makes it very plain what was there at the beginning, (Genesis 1:1) and neither male nor female were there. Jesus is speaking of the creation of our race, not the beginning of all creation.

He ws speaking of the beginning of creation as in the creator made them male and female. And as I stated He used such for a judgment made then it must be based off truth not fiction or a figurative story.

 

[Barbarian]

I'm sorry you turned back from the truth, it has happened to millions and you're right in one thing , God does not lie ..

Then just believe him, instead of adding new doctrines to His word. Let him God and do it His way.

 

[Barbarian]

cripture states in Genesis 1:1 that God created the heavens and the earth. Can you tell me what was before the beginning?

God. He's eternal.

This sounds to me as if it is the beginning of all creation.

But as you see, He is very explicit about what was there at the beginning. And it's not male and female.

 

[Barbarian]

He ws speaking of the beginning of creation as in the creator made them male and female.

As you learned, male and female were not there at the beginning of creation,according to God's word. Jesus meant from the beginning of the creation of humankind.

Genesis 1:1 makes it clear that male and female were not there at the beginning of creation. God does not lie, so it must be based on truth. But as Jesus makes clear, figurative parables are true, even if they didn't literally happen.

 

[dirtfarmer]

God. He's eternal.



But as you see, He is very explicit about what was there at the beginning. And it's not male and female.

hello Barbarian, dirtfarmer here

I guess that my "knoggin" is thick. What are you trying to prove? that male and female were from the first day? Where did you get that Idea? It was not from me. Male and female, as to humans, were not created until the 6th day. It wasn't until the fifth day that God begin to create living creatures that breathed through lungs and gills.

 

[Randy]

As you learned, male and female were not there at the beginning of creation,according to God's word. Jesus meant from the beginning of the creation of humankind.

Genesis 1:1 makes it clear that male and female were not there at the beginning of creation. God does not lie, so it must be based on truth. But as Jesus makes clear, figurative parables are true, even if they didn't literally happen.

In the beginning when God created the heavens and earth. Then genesis shows Gods hand was in every aspect of the creation. Jesus was referring to that beginning. And God creating man and women are are part of that beginning. And it is truth not a parable nor figurative story Jesus asked, "haven't you read?" I understand you can't accept it as fact.

While this is figurative I think it demonstrates Gods ability to create by His invisible qualities.
Ezekiel 37 Can these bones live?

 

[Barbarian]

In the beginning when God created the heavens and earth.

And as it says, there was no male or female then.

After the beginning, all sorts of things came forth from that initial creation, as He says in genesis.

Then genesis shows Gods hand was in every aspect of the creation.

He says that the things He created brought forth other things, as He intended. His hand remains in every particle of the natural universe. it exists only because He remains involved with it. This unfolding of creation, as noted by early Christians, was when man and woman came to be. Jesus was referring to that beginning. And God creating man and women are are part of that beginning.

And how they came to be is a parable. As you know, parables are true, even if they aren't literal events. Jesus asked, "haven't you read?" I understand you can't accept it as fact.

 

[Barbarian]

hello Barbarian, dirtfarmer here

I guess that my "knoggin" is thick. What are you trying to prove? that male and female were from the first day? Where did you get that Idea? It was not from me. Male and female, as to humans, were not created until the 6th day. It wasn't until the fifth day that God begin to create living creatures that breathed through lungs and gills.

Orthodox Christian belief is that there was an initial "ex nihilo" creation by God, from which all other things appeared, as is recorded in Genesis. Those later things came over time, and as God willed, were brought forth by that initial creation. Hence, they are creations of God, even if they brought forth by the things He had directly created.

 

[Randy]

And as it says, there was no male or female then.

After the beginning, all sorts of things came forth from that initial creation, as He says in genesis.



He says that the things He created brought forth other things, as He intended. His hand remains in every particle of the natural universe. it exists only because He remains involved with it. This unfolding of creation, as noted by early Christians, was when man and woman came to be. Jesus was referring to that beginning. And God creating man and women are are part of that beginning.

And how they came to be is a parable. As you know, parables are true, even if they aren't literal events. Jesus asked, "haven't you read?" I understand you can't accept it as fact.

It didn't read the passage as a parable (genesis) nor a separate beginning to me,(the life and plants God created). Nor a figurate story. So I guess we see things different that is I don't hold to evolution. I see the creative power of the living God. Mark 8:19 I am influenced by my relationship with Jesus.

 

[Cygnus]

And how they came to be is a parable. As you know, parables are true, even if they aren't literal events. Jesus asked, "haven't you read?" I understand you can't accept it as fact.

Why would I believe the Genesis account to be a parable?

Nothing biblical calls for it...especially when other authors present it as hisorical and literal.