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[_ Old Earth _] Evolutionism and Evolution; some essential differences

None whatever. Only when someone adds something to God's requirements for salvation are there obstacles put up. The problem is, creationism is not in God's word, (nor is evolution; the Bible takes no stand on those things) and telling people that one must believe in that modern revision, is causing many to assume Christianity is false.

Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion. [1 Timothy 1.7]
St. Augustine De Genesi ad litteram libri duodecim


No matter what the extra requirements are, they are an obstacle to people coming to God. And they are a reason for many to leave the faith.

Glenn Morton is an evangelical Christian, a graduate of the Institute for Creation Research graduate school, and a former YE creationist. Here's his story:

But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.

"From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true? ,"

That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said 'No!' A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, "Wait a minute. There has to be one!" But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.

And being through with creationism, I very nearly became through with Christianity. I was on the very verge of becoming an atheist.
http://www.oldearth.org/whyileft.htm

This is the real harm that comes from young Earth creationism.

hello Barbarian, dirtfarmer here

In Mark 10:6 Jesus made the statement: " From the beginning of the creation God made them male and female." From this scripture I base my belief that Jesus Christ taught a young earth creation. Why would he not know when and how the earth was created?
 
Fortunately it's not. Jesus makes it very clear what it is that saves you, and it's not your opinion on the way God made the diversity of living things. Be very careful not to put up obstacles in the way of people who might otherwise come to Him.



So you're very sure that there was a Good Samaritan? We know parables from the context, not by a label.



Because figurative verses don't make everything in the Bible figurative.

Parables do not include times and measurements .. Or names that I know of .. Through one man sin entered the world, Adam . And Eve is the mother of all the living .. Thus Y-Chromosome Adam and Mitochondria-Eve .. When Jesus was tempted of the devil he replied each time ''it is written''
 
Parables do not include times and measurements .

Good Samaritan does.

Through one man sin entered the world, Adam . And Eve is the mother of all the living .. Thus Y-Chromosome Adam and Mitochondria-Eve

"Y-chromosome Adam" and "mitochondrial Eve" lived at very different times, and neither were the real Adam or the real Eve. They are only our last common male and female ancestors. Adam and Eve lived long before that.
 
hello Barbarian, dirtfarmer here

In Mark 10:6 Jesus made the statement: " From the beginning of the creation God made them male and female."

God explicitly tells us what is there at the beginning of creation:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth. 2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.

And neither male nor female were there. Jesus is talking about the creation of mankind, not the original creation.

From this scripture I base my belief that Jesus Christ taught a young earth creation.

That would contradict Genesis 1:1. So we have to realize that the creation he spoke of was that of humankind. Which makes sense in the context of his lesson.
 
Just as Israelites assumed bats are birds, they assumed whales are fish. Just a mistake. That kind of thing has nothing whatsoever to do with the message in the Bible.
 
Good Samaritan does.



"Y-chromosome Adam" and "mitochondrial Eve" lived at very different times, and neither were the real Adam or the real Eve. They are only our last common male and female ancestors. Adam and Eve lived long before that.

What was his name ?

All females have a common genetic trait .. The population bottleneck goes back to only a few about the time of the flood ..
Hence the error. Whales aren't fish and they much breath to live.

No error , whales were considered a fish .. We added all that much much later .. Same as at first a woman conceived and was said to be with child then .. Now some call it a zygote and inhuman ..
 
God explicitly tells us what is there at the beginning of creation:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth. 2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.

And neither male nor female were there. Jesus is talking about the creation of mankind, not the original creation.



That would contradict Genesis 1:1. So we have to realize that the creation he spoke of was that of humankind. Which makes sense in the context of his lesson.

hello Barbarian, dirtfarmer here

In John 5:46-47 Jesus made this statement: " For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words." In Exodus 20:11 Moses wrote this; " For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day, wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." Does this sound as if the "old earth" theory could be true?
 
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth .. Now you can proceed to verse 2 .. Which explains why Polonium halos exist in granite . Not created out of massive orbs of molten material in which they would escape but called out of water quick frozen in place ..
 
Genesis 7:22 And all things wherein there is the breath of life on the earth, died.

Notice that eretz is translated as "earth", meaning "land." So everything that breathed in the area died.


But this still doesn't explain how Noah got all those whales on board, which is what happened if you take the story as a literal history.
If Noah put onboard all that the Lord had brought to Him (and only God could bring about such a gathering), then He would have fulfilled the command that God gave him. Its clear to all that whales can survive in deep waters.

Randy
 
Good Samaritan does.



"Y-chromosome Adam" and "mitochondrial Eve" lived at very different times, and neither were the real Adam or the real Eve. They are only our last common male and female ancestors. Adam and Eve lived long before that.

hello Barbarian, dirtfarmer here

Why would "Y-chromosome Adam" and "mitochondrial Eve" living at different times make them "not real"? You must remember that "Y-chromosome Adam" was the first human, Eve was taken from his side. The "bottle-neck" of the "pool of genes" happened at the flood explains why "Y-chromosome Adam" can not be traced back as far as "mitochondrial Eve" can.

Noah's 3 sons all came from the "gene pool" from one woman, therefore their mitochondrial genes point to them not being in existence as long as their wives. Their wives, on the other hand, "mitochondrial gene pool" came from 3 different women and therefore could be traced back farther back in time.
 
hello Barbarian, dirtfarmer here

Why would "Y-chromosome Adam" and "mitochondrial Eve" living at different times make them "not real"?

They are likely very real. The just aren't the Adam and Eve we know about in the Bible.

You must remember that "Y-chromosome Adam" was the first human

No. He was the last male who was the ancestor of every human living today. Likewise, mitochondrial Eve was the last female who was the ancestor of every human living today.

Both are much, much earlier than Noah.
 
If Noah put onboard all that the Lord had brought to Him (and only God could bring about such a gathering), then He would have fulfilled the command that God gave him. Its clear to all that whales can survive in deep waters.

Of course. If there was a literal Noah (and the evidence for a huge flood in the middle east at the right time suggests that there was) he would have gathered the land animals from the area.
 
They are likely very real. The just aren't the Adam and Eve we know about in the Bible.



No. He was the last male who was the ancestor of every human living today. Likewise, mitochondrial Eve was the last female who was the ancestor of every human living today.

Both are much, much earlier than Noah.

hello Barbarian, dirtfarmer here

Explain the statement:" He was the last male who was the ancestor of every human living today."
 
Explain the statement:" He was the last male who was the ancestor of every human living today."

The vast majority of people, over many generations, don't have descendants. Their lines die out and if you go back several thousand years, only a relatively few people are responsible for most of us. Y-chromosome Adam is the last male for which all of us are descendants.

That being so, as lines die out, the identify of the last common ancestor will change, and shift forward in time.

Try this:
Assume 20 men in a population. Roll dice to see how many children they have. on a 6-sided die, assume 1 or 2 is zero, 3 or 4 is 1, 5 or 6 is 3. Run it for their descendants for hundred generations and see how many of them have descendants in that 100th generation.
 
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hello Barbarian, dirtfarmer here

In John 5:46-47 Jesus made this statement: " For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words." In Exodus 20:11 Moses wrote this; " For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day, wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." Does this sound as if the "old earth" theory could be true?

I don't see how Jesus, repeating figurative language makes it into a literal history.
 
Of course. If there was a literal Noah (and the evidence for a huge flood in the middle east at the right time suggests that there was) he would have gathered the land animals from the area.

If Jesus genealogy was recorded in the Word of God twice, once through his mothers line back to king David then back to Adam and Eve (the first man and wombman) then again through his legal but not biological father Joseph traced back to king David then back to Adam and Eve the first man formed by God from the dust of the Earth, his wife formed Eve formed from Adams rib ,flesh and bone of Adams flesh then genetic proof there was no mankind before them I'd say evolution has been kicked in the teeth and creation is true like God the Father said and God the Son believed and taught .. Eve is the mother of all the living and Adam is the father of all traced back to a bottleneck of males (4) perfectly matching a timeline of the great flood .. The flood covered the whole Earth to a height of 18 cubits higher than the mountains .. This caused sudden mass fossil graveyards and resulted in what would become worldwide deposits of oil and coal still formulating today .. There is no other explanation and the Word of God is true .. The Earth is about 6 thousand years old .. The Word of God is Gods recorded birth certificate for both mankind and Earth, deal with it .. Earth has a birth certificate .. Evolution and millions, billions of years is a Godless lie ..
 
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