Bible Study Experiencing God.

[Hopeful]

Jesus prayed that his disciples would be one with each other, united together in fellowship, as Jesus was with his Heavenly Father. Jesus was NOT praying that his disciples would be one with himself in the way he was with the Father. Such a thing would be impossible, since no creature can ever share fully in the nature of their Creator. There are. after all, only three Persons in the Trinity and no more.

You are, if you've trusted in Christ as your Savior and Lord, united with Christ spiritually, indwelt by the Holy Spirit and in him given new, spiritual life; but you are not, therefore, God, united to Him as such, like a finger is united to a hand. Instead, you are merely a vessel, a container, a temple, a dwelling-place of the Holy Spirit; you are not become God. (2 Timothy 2:21; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20). This is why, in the Bible, you are called God's servant, His child, His sheep, His ambassador, but never His equal, co-divine with the Godhead.

If you are so set on being separate from Christ Jesus, why do you identify as Christian?
Jesus said..."And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:" (John 17:22)
Just as God and Jesus are one, so too are those "in Christ" one with God.
"...even as We are".

 

[Hopeful]

Amen. "Greater is He who is in you than he that is in the world."

It is comforting to know that "we are one".

 

[Tenchi]

If you are so set on being separate from Christ Jesus, why do you identify as Christian?
Jesus said..."And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:" (John 17:22)
Just as God and Jesus are one, so too are those "in Christ" one with God.
"...even as We are".

No, as I already explained, Jesus was asking the Father to make his disciples one with each other, like he and Jesus were one. He was NOT asking the Father to bring created, finite, contingent beings into the Godhead. Such a notion is actually profoundly blasphemous.

Where have I said that I am set on being separate from Christ? In fact, I'm not set on such a thing at all. But I'm under no delusion that I can become God, united with Christ such that I take on deity myself. That was the temptation of the devil in Eden, which I absolutely reject.

It is comforting to know that "we are one".

Some falsehoods can be very comforting -- until reality, at some point, shatters them.

 

[Hopeful]

No, as I already explained, Jesus was asking the Father to make his disciples one with each other, like he and Jesus were one. He was NOT asking the Father to bring created, finite, contingent beings into the Godhead. Such a notion is actually profoundly blasphemous.

Since I was water baptized "into Christ" I am one with Him. (Rom 6:3)
BTW, I will live forever.

Where have I said that I am set on being separate from Christ? In fact, I'm not set on such a thing at all. But I'm under no delusion that I can become God, united with Christ such that I take on deity myself. That was the temptation of the devil in Eden, which I absolutely reject.

You said it in the last paragraph above.
Where did I ever say I was "become God", or was deity?

Some falsehoods can be very comforting -- until reality, at some point, shatters them.

Didn't Jesus once tell the Jews..."Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"
Some falsehoods deprive the believer of their rightful place in the light.

 

[Tenchi]

Bump.

 

[Hidden In Him]

This is what you are doing for God, in response to His command. I'm writing about what He does to you, what He does in you, that cannot be mistaken for your effort.

Tenchi, as I've told you before, I think your pieces are well-written and certainly contain elements of truth in them. But as for your primary contention here, I have to go the other direction. First and foremost, the world was not turned upside down because Christianity changed people morally or spiritually. The primary factor initially was the power of God being manifested to confirm the word, proving that the gospel was in fact the word of God and not just the word of men (1 Thessalonians 2:13). Until people are convinced of this one fact, no real change can take place because with many there will be no belief present, and it's why He did many miraculous works and the apostles did likewise after Him. Maybe more importantly, it's why the Spirit of God was poured out upon believers with supernatural signs and wonders so that they experienced Him supernaturally themselves.

Is Christianity increasing in the earth now, or does it appear to be on the decline? It was certainly spreading like wildfire during the New Testament era, and I believe that's because the power of God was in manifestation. That we are treading water by comparison today can IMO be directly attributed to the fact that conditions are largely the opposite now. It is my opinion that because we have downplayed the importance of the power of God in manifestation that the modern church is so lukewarm compared to the New Testament church, and I believe it will remain so until the latter day outpouring returns in earnest. The end-time harvest won't take place until then either.

God bless, and thanks for another well-intended post, but I have to say I disagree with you on this one.
- H

 

[Tenchi]

Tenchi, as I've told you before, I think your pieces are well-written and certainly contain elements of truth in them. But as for your primary contention here, I have to go the other direction. First and foremost, the world was not turned upside down because Christianity changed people morally or spiritually.

I don't recall saying that it was. My topic of this thread is aimed primarily at believers, at their personal experience of God, not the power of God manifesting for the purpose of "turning the world upside down." Not sure how you missed this...

The primary factor initially was the power of God being manifested to confirm the word, proving that the gospel was in fact the word of God and not just the word of men (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

There is, in my opinion, no greater demonstration of the power of God than a genuinely transformed life. As my posts to this thread about experiencing God explain, when the Spirit is genuinely acting upon a person in the way the Bible lays out, it is impossible to counterfeit or mistake - unlike so many of the "signs" to which hyper-charismatics like to point as "of God."

That we are treading water by comparison today can IMO be directly attributed to the fact that conditions are largely the opposite now.

??? There are exponentially many more believers today than in the first one thousand years of the Church combined. I don't know where you're looking, but in many parts of the world Christianity is by no means merely "treading water." Consider Africa, South Korea, South America and even, strangely, China.

It is my opinion that because we have downplayed the importance of the power of God in manifestation that the modern church is so lukewarm compared to the New Testament church, and I believe it will remain so until the latter day outpouring returns in earnest.

Well, as I've explained in this thread, the North American spiritual malaise among Protestant, evangelical Christians has much to do with the very thinking you describe here and the absence of a proper, biblical understanding of what the normal Christian life is, what "experiencing God" is, according to Scripture. These two things go together, the latter producing the former very often.

In any case, thanks for your comments. I always appreciate going back-and-forth with fellow believers and "sharpening my iron" (and, maybe, theirs, too)

 

[Hidden In Him]

I don't recall saying that it was. My topic of this thread is aimed primarily at believers, at their personal experience of God, not the power of God manifesting for the purpose of "turning the world upside down." Not sure how you missed this...

The outpouring of the Spirit was upon believers, and it was this personal experience of God that brought sanctification.

unlike so many of the "signs" to which hyper-charismatics like to point as "of God."

Don't always think of things in terms of the hyper-Charismatics or those given to faking the gifts. Genuine words of knowledge - such as through prophecy or tongues and interpretation - which reveal the hidden secrets of the heart can be a very powerful factor in conversion (1 Corinthians 14:25).

??? There are exponentially many more believers today than in the first one thousand years of the Church combined. I don't know where you're looking, but in many parts of the world Christianity is by no means merely "treading water."

I'm speaking of worldwide decline, growth or stagnation in general here. Now maybe my opinion is partly colored by what is going on particularly in the States, because here is where the decline is the steepest. I believe it will show up in spades in another decade or so, and then it will no longer be up for debate.
https://www.christianitytoday.com/n...-decline-inexorable-nones-rise-pew-study.html

But Islam is the world's fastest growing religion worldwide, and it is about to bring Christianity's long-held dominance to an end soon:

Why Muslims are the world’s fastest-growing religious group

While the world’s population is projected to grow 32% in the coming decades, the number of Muslims is expected to increase by 70% – from 1.8 billion in 2015 to nearly 3 billion in 2060.

www.pewresearch.org

Well, as I've explained in this thread, the North American spiritual malaise among Protestant, evangelical Christians has much to do with the very thinking you describe here and the absence of a proper, biblical understanding of what the normal Christian life is, what "experiencing God" is, according to Scripture.

As a rule, I don't think non-Charismatics understand their Bible as well as they think they do. But that would start a conversation beyond the scope of this thread, so I'll leave it there.

In any case, thanks for your comments. I always appreciate going back-and-forth with fellow believers and "sharpening my iron" (and, maybe, theirs, too)

God bless! And same to you, as always.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The name Allah , I thought just like you so I was going , Allah? So my prayer language must be of Arabic origin or similar . Christians use the name Allah . Read about name Allah here . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah

Yeah. That suggests your language may be some form of Arabic.

The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for "God" than "Allah". Similarly, the Aramaic word for "God" in the language of Assyrian Christians is ʼĔlāhā, or Alaha. (Even the Arabic-descended Maltese language of Malta, whose population is almost entirely Catholic, uses Alla for "God".) Arab Christians, for example, use the terms Allāh al-ab (الله الأب) for God the Father, Allāh al-ibn (الله الابن) for God the Son, and Allāh ar-rūḥ al-quds (الله الروح القدس) for God the Holy Spirit. (See God in Christianity for the Christian concept of God.)

 

[Godisgracious1031]

There is a hymn called "wolf lay down with the lamb".. Seriousuly though, I have probably misquoted a lot of scripture before to others.. dosen't mean I am right or they are right. Maybe they hear the "lamb lay down with the lamb" from the misquote from Elvis or some other thing.

The Bible is true and God promised to preserve it. It's infillable and satan tries to attack that by giving us all these water-downed changed Bibles that really change things (deity of Christ, the blood).

There is no Mandella effect.

If have any other questions, let me know

God bless,

Shawn

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
What a great discussion. It is refreshing to see people with different views being civil to each other. (And they said it could not be done.)

A few observations:
1. I believe Hopeful may have been on the right track. To experience God, do the will of God.
What is the will of God?
To love God with everything you've got, and love your neighbor as you would love yourself. We know this is always the will of God.

2. Slain in the spirit is not biblically based on the gift of tongues. I see no Scriptural references linking slaying/tongues as possible or ever practiced as a church event. That makes me skeptical. The instances Hawkman pointed out were direct encounters with Jesus, or an angel of the Lord. They, Paul and John, were not "slain" as they were fully aware of what was happening.
My own personal encounters with it left me with the impression that the practice was self serving, drawing attention to the slayee, rather than building up the entire group.
3. Speaking in tongues, as practiced in Scripture, have not been practiced within the churches I have attended. The language spoken in Acts 2 is Galilean. It is heard by people, from 16-17 different languages if I recall, heard their native language. The speaker was speaking intelligible Galilean. The listener heard Galilean as if it were Egyptian, Greek, or whatever other language. This is the first practice of the gift in Scripture. As such, it is our benchmark for the practice. I have never seen this practice of tongues in any church service I have attended. The gibberish I hear, the slaying that I see on TV, comes across as self-aggrandizement.

This also makes me skeptical.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Tenchi]

A few observations:
1. I believe Hopeful may have been on the right track. To experience God, do the will of God.
What is the will of God?
To love God with everything you've got, and love your neighbor as you would love yourself. We know this is always the will of God.

Well, I think you're mistaking effect for cause, here, a bit. What is "experiencing God," exactly? It is experiencing all the things the Bible says we can - and should - experience of the life and work of the Holy Spirit within us and through us to all those around us. It's by the Person of the Holy Spirit that we are convicted about our sin (John 16:8; Revelation 2-3), taught the eternal, divine Truth of God (John 14:26; John 16:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16), strengthened in times of testing and temptation (Philippians 2:13; Philippians 4:13; Ephesians 3:16; Romans 8:13), comforted in seasons of sorrow and pain (2 Corinthians 1:3-4), and transformed into the "image of Christ" (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 3:18: Galatians 5:22-23). The Holy Spirit also glorifies God within the heart and mind of every believer (John 16:14), causing them to love the brethren (1 John 3:14), to hunger for God's word (Jeremiah 15:16), to hate sin (1 John 2:3-6; Ephesians 5:1-13; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20); , and to desire (love) God more and more as every day passes (Romans 5:5; Galatians 5:22-23).

As the Holy Spirit works in these ways, producing these effects in the born-again believer, they are properly equipped to "do the will of God," and do so, actually, joyfully and as naturally as breathing.

2. Slain in the spirit is not biblically based on the gift of tongues. I see no Scriptural references linking slaying/tongues as possible or ever practiced as a church event. That makes me skeptical. The instances Hawkman pointed out were direct encounters with Jesus, or an angel of the Lord. They, Paul and John, were not "slain" as they were fully aware of what was happening.

I'm skeptical, too. The phrase "slain in the Spirit" does not appear in Scripture. There is no teaching on any such thing in God's word, either. The only people in the New Testament who behaved in anything like the way those "slain in the Spirit" do were those who were demon-possessed.

3. Speaking in tongues, as practiced in Scripture, have not been practiced within the churches I have attended. The language spoken in Acts 2 is Galilean. It is heard by people, from 16-17 different languages if I recall, heard their native language. The speaker was speaking intelligible Galilean. The listener heard Galilean as if it were Egyptian, Greek, or whatever other language. This is the first practice of the gift in Scripture. As such, it is our benchmark for the practice. I have never seen this practice of tongues in any church service I have attended. The gibberish I hear, the slaying that I see on TV, comes across as self-aggrandizement.

Acts 2:4-13
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
5 Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven.
6 And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language.
7 They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans?
8 "And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born?
9 "Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God."
12 And they all continued in amazement and great perplexity, saying to one another, "What does this mean?"
13 But others were mocking and saying, "They are full of sweet wine."

So, the first verse from the passage above from Acts 2 says: "...and began to speak with other tongues...". Not "Galilean." Those to whom the Spirit-filled disciples spoke heard their own language issuing from the disciples. Some mocked this miracle of language, thinking the Spirit-filled disciples were drunk. A variety of languages being spoken by them, their speech, apparently, resembled the babble of a badly-inebriated person. This mocking indicates to me that the miraculous speech of the disciples was not a single, common language spoken by the disciples but heard by their audience in their own languages; rather it was a variety of languages the disciples spoke, Parthians hearing their language from some of the disciples, Egyptians hearing their language from other of the disciples, Cretans hearing their own language from still other of the disciples, and so on.