explaining Christian morality to others

[Free]

Aha! So it is a fundamentalist web-site. Debate on interpretation and origin of The Bible is not allowed! Wow! How sad! That is the most important issue facing Christianity and precisely why Christian numbers are tumbling. Fundamentalists are killing off Christianity same as the fundamentalist Muslims will eventually kill off Islam. I would be foolish to stay. I will bid you farewell and try to find a more open minded forum where some more constructive thoughts are being shared. Bye

If name-calling makes you feel better, then so be it. As to the TOS, if "We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs, a complete and final written revelation from God," is somehow a bad thing and that the site is "fundamentalist," then you have some serious issues. It is like the Bible says, in the last times people will gather teachers who will teach them what they want to hear. That, is one of the greatest problems, out of which comes all manner of false gospels and false teachings. That is precisely what people mean when they want to search out those who are "open-minded." Not to mention that it is closed-minded of you to leave because you disagree.

If the Bible isn't inspired, then there is no such thing as Christianity and we should throw the Bible out or just ignore it. Your status as "Christian" then is meaningless.

2Ti 4:3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, (ESV)

 

[Obadiah]

Yes Rick, I stand appropriately admonished. 2 I accept that my words were typed in anger. I will try to be more careful.

I'm sorry Obadiah, I was out or order. I should have recognised and explained that.....
1. I was angered by your insistence that preaching to an mentally ill person was a good thing to do.
2. Having provided evidence of manipulation, in the form of Derren Brown, I was angered by your assumption that you knew what he was and didn't even bother to look at the evidence presented before repeating your lay medical opinion.
3. I was angered by your presentation of 'evidence' in the form of 'many documented cases' only to find that you actually meant that you had read something somewhere but you couldn't remember where.

PLEASE seek the advice of mental health professionals and PLEASE don't try to 'help' mentally ill people. ?

Thank you (sarcasm intended) for what looks to me like a list of further misquotes and excuses thinly veiled as an apology. Lets move on.

 

[Isambard]

Thank you (sarcasm intended) for what looks to me like a list of further misquotes and excuses thinly veiled as an apology. Lets move on.

Yes Obadiah, you are quite right. I must apologise again. I re-checked your words and I agree that I did indeed misquote you in one respect. Your actual words were:

"There have been many, many documented incidences of mentally ill people who were "cured" through discovering a faith in God..." It was careless of me but I missed out the second 'many' when I quoted you.

So, have you managed to find the many, many documented cases yet?

Have you found just the 'many' documented cases?

Have you found any documented cases?

 

[for_his_glory]

Isambard, I will not argue nor debate the facts of what I believe, but if you would like to read what I wrote on deception in religion please go to my website, you can click on the link at the bottom of my post, and click on Deception in Religion. I think you might get some incite that will answer some of the questions you are asking others.

 

[Isambard]

Isambard, I will not argue nor debate the facts of what I believe, but if you would like to read what I wrote on deception in religion please go to my website, you can click on the link at the bottom of my post, and click on Deception in Religion. I think you might get some incite that will answer some of the questions you are asking others.

Thank you. I don't know how far you wanted me to read but I particularly liked, "Satan has such a foothold on religions and has side blinded all of us into believing whatever is taught behind the pulpit is truth because after all, they are the Priest, Rabbis, Pastors, etc. etc. and they should know what they are talking about because they are our teachers".

Oh, yes. We often get sound bites and slogans from the pulpit instead of careful consideration. Your statement fits in very well with my great concern that many people have a 'blind faith' in authority figures and naively accept whatever they read or hear without engaging their brain, heart and conscience. I think the most important lesson for us all is to listen, pray and think. I don't want to keep banging on about him but Derren Brown has shown us just how easy it is to manipulate people and we ignore that at our peril. He, an atheist, can make people believe in God without even mentioning God, faith, religion etc. We MUST therefore be very careful and not just accept what we are told.

 

[for_his_glory]

Thank you. I don't know how far you wanted me to read but I particularly liked, "Satan has such a foothold on religions and has side blinded all of us into believing whatever is taught behind the pulpit is truth because after all, they are the Priest, Rabbis, Pastors, etc. etc. and they should know what they are talking about because they are our teachers".

Oh, yes. We often get sound bites and slogans from the pulpit instead of careful consideration. Your statement fits in very well with my great concern that many people have a 'blind faith' in authority figures and naively accept whatever they read or hear without engaging their brain, heart and conscience. I think the most important lesson for us all is to listen, pray and think. I don't want to keep banging on about him but Derren Brown has shown us just how easy it is to manipulate people and we ignore that at our peril. He, an atheist, can make people believe in God without even mentioning God, faith, religion etc. We MUST therefore be very careful and not just accept what we are told.

Actually I wanted you to read the whole thing and also study the scriptures given. If we only pick and choose that of what we read it makes the whole unattainable. It's like when people pick and choose supporting scripture as in just one verse it takes away from the teaching of the whole Chapter. When one just picks out a single part like you did here in your post it makes it sound like I am an atheist and against religion, but that is not the case. I am pointing out the problems with the deceptions within religion. I am a blood bought child of God through that of a Spiritual rebirth, John 3:3-6.

 

[Free]

The off-topic discussion regarding Scripture has been moved here: http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/is-the-bible-the-word-of-god.52944/

 

[Edward]

Yes Obadiah, you are quite right. I must apologise again. I re-checked your words and I agree that I did indeed misquote you in one respect. Your actual words were:

"There have been many, many documented incidences of mentally ill people who were "cured" through discovering a faith in God..." It was careless of me but I missed out the second 'many' when I quoted you.

So, have you managed to find the many, many documented cases yet?

Have you found just the 'many' documented cases?

Have you found any documented cases?

Why does everything have to be documented? Is our faith in God and our spirituality based in our flesh mind, or in our hearts? Remember brother, we are not to lean upon our own understanding, that is, head knowledge. We were created spiritual beings and did not think with our head before the fall. As born again Christians, we are Re-Born and renewed. What does this mean? Are we instructed to live for the flesh, or to live for the Spirit?

 

[Isambard]

Why does everything have to be documented? ......

Hello Edward

I certainly don't think that everything has to be documented. The only reason it was discussed was that Obadiah said, ""There have been many, many documented incidences of mentally ill people who were "cured" through discovering a faith in God..." in an attempted justification for preaching to a mentally ill person. I was and am very much against any such practice and gave my reasons for that.

If anyone mistakenly states something as 'fact' and that mistaken 'fact' is potentially damaging, I think it our duty to point out the error to limit the amount of damage that it does. I'm happy to accept that Obadiah didn't mean to do any harm or to mislead anyone BUT that is in fact what he did. He gave the very clear impression that there were 'many, many documented instances' when in fact there are not. I politely asked for just one of these 'many, many documented instances' but it transpired that he actually meant that he had read something, somewhere that gave him that impression.

As you have recently posted elsewhere, the internet is NOT a reliable source of information. I agreed with you in that thread that anything you read on the web and indeed in books has to be accepted only with great care and discretion.

Regarding your born-again comments, I believe we should all think carefully and use our heart and instincts in the hope that we are truly being guided. Before we get to any decision point though, we should have gone through the discernment process to try to rule out as much false and unreliable information as possible - such as 'there are many, many documented instances......'.

 

[reba]

I'm happy to accept that Obadiah didn't mean to do any harm or to mislead anyone BUT that is in fact what he did. He gave the very clear impression that there were 'many, many documented instances' when in fact there are not.

Isambard you have stated as fact that there are not 'many, many documented instances' where do you find such facts?

 

[Edward]

Here's one, a mans testimony. He sounds very credible to me. It may not be many many, but then again how many is many many? I think the point was that God is alive and well and doing very many things on the earth today including many many healings of all types. I concur with the man because I have watched and read many testimonies (with open heart) about healings, and had the Holy Spirit bear witness with my spirit of the truth of them. Not all of them mind you, but a lot. Spiritual discernment is of the heart and not the mind.

 

[Obadiah]

Here's one, a mans testimony. He sounds very credible to me. It may not be many many, but then again how many is many many? I think the point was that God is alive and well and doing very many things on the earth today including many many healings of all types. I concur with the man because I have watched and read many testimonies (with open heart) about healings, and had the Holy Spirit bear witness with my spirit of the truth of them. Not all of them mind you, but a lot. Spiritual discernment is of the heart and not the mind.

Wow! that was a lot more dramatic than the cases I'd heard or read about. But you're right, he sounds completely credible, and there were witnesses of what happened to him at the mental institution and video of the healings in Africa! As dramatic as this is, it has none of the faked craziness of so much of the televised "healing" services that we see these days. Thanks for a good example of the power of God through those who truly believe in Him!

 

[WIP]

I think there have been enough personal comments.

 

[Edward]

Wow! that was a lot more dramatic than the cases I'd heard or read about. But you're right, he sounds completely credible, and there were witnesses of what happened to him at the mental institution and video of the healings in Africa! As dramatic as this is, it has none of the faked craziness of so much of the televised "healing" services that we see these days. Thanks for a good example of the power of God through those who truly believe in Him!

Thank you Brother. I had the same reaction when I watched it. The Holy Spirit let me know that it is the truth also. That's one of my favorites. I Praise God for the works that He is doing all over right now.

 

[WIP]

I will say again.


What "he said, she said" is not the topic.
Here's the topic:

how do you explain your lifestyle to people--especially people in authority--who question you?

 

[Isambard]

Isambard you have stated as fact that there are not 'many, many documented instances' where do you find such facts?

Reba - I did answer your question, in more than adequate detail, but it has been deleted without any note of that deletion. Another reason why I will waste no more time here. If you really are interested, you can undoubtedly challenge the moderator who deleted it. Goodbye.