Exposing Hislop's "The Two Babylons"

[thessalonian]

Mr. V. What does this all have to do with Hislops book of tripe and lies?

 

[MrVersatile48]

I'm trying to keep it to Bible principles: that's exactly the point, because it's a very common RC trick to claim, "It's only Luther..Calvin..Billy Graham..Alex Hislop..etc who says these things" - as a subtle way of maligning Man's Maker's Manual, the Bible, as it's actually what God's Word says, in so many words, that those RC apologists deny & malign

For any readers who ain't seen the cartoon movie of Robin Hood, Sir Hiss is the snake character, who sings, while hypnotising the heroine:-

"Trus-s-s-s-st in me...

Jus-s-s-st in me..." :evil:

The whole point of what many evangelicals, ever since the Reformation, are saying is that God makes the rules..God calls the shots..& that anything vital for salvation & growth in Christ-like character is in the Bible

Also, like the Bereans in Acts 17:11, that anything any preacher says should be compared to the Bible by Christian hearers; we have a duty to do that

Here's a timely link to an article about that RC tactic of labeling evangelical groups as 'cults', when the true meaning of a cult is a group whose teachings patently disagree with the Bible over the Deity of Christ, the way of salvation & the supreme authority of the Word of God:-

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/003/15.27.html

RCs falsely call 'Sola Scriptura' a 'heresy' - just as they have falsely called the leaders of every revival since the Reformation 'heretics'

As has been repeatedly shown, & is the main thrust of The Two Babylons, ALL the distinctive RC dogma & practices are clearly unscriptural & their roots are painstakingly traced back to the forbidden Babylon pagan occult mystery religion dogma & practices

As I've often had to say, in my 4.5 years on various Christian discussion sites like this, we all should be aware that many more folk read the threads than post on them :roll:

It's very common indeed to see over 10 times as many views as there are posts - sometimes, over 20 times as many, yes?

That's why I try always to "K.I.S.S" - ("Keep It Simple, Stupid!" 8-)

Mind you, having graduated where the homiletics (=art of preaching) professor forever encouraged me to "strive for excellence" - by which he meant long words & multi-clause sentences - I 1st had to learn the hard way that I was going way over most folks' heads :o

In other words, I 1st had to learn to "M.I.S.S" - ('Make It Simple, Stupid!') ;-)

There are many, many details in The Two Babylons

Just as the media use the process of gradual info, I try my best to keep things bite-sized, so as not to over-face many readers & so as to give other folks a chance to contribute :

Also, if you click my profile & 'find all posts by...', you'll see that I'm by no means fixated on this subject, but do my best to provide as wide a variety of posts/threads as possible 8-)

Thinks: it's @ 2 weeks since I saw "Walk The Line"... :angel:

I'd best see if there's yet a movie review thread @ it, as today's posts kinda make it very timely.. :

AS for the Oscars....

 

[thessalonian]

Um, I hate to tell you but that article says nothing about Catholics calling protestants cultists. :o All parties involved in the dispute are protestant. Perhaps you got the link wrong? Do try again.

Let me inform you that your post bears false witness. According to the Bible that's not good.

 

[MrVersatile48]

As I just said on my reply to your same comment on the parallel thread, it was bad wording on my part, in the rush to beat autologout

Meanwhile, as different aspects will interest different readers...

& as we all have our own pace...

here's the results of a yahoo search, so you can see the table of the book's many contents & check out whatever grabs you in the online version of the book:-


WEB RESULTS

The Two Babylons: Table of Contents
by Alexander Hislop. Philologos Religious Online Books. http://www.Philologos.org. The Two Babylons. or The Papal Worship. Proved to be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife. By the Late Rev. Alexander Hislop http://www.philologos.org/__eb-ttb - 10k - Cached - More from this site - Save
Index - The Two Babylons

The Two Babylons gives proof of the Babylonian character of the Papal church. ... The Two Babylons. (or The Papal Worship Proved to be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife). An extremely well-researched study by the Rev. Alexander Hislop ... http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/2babindx.htm - 8k - Cached - More from this site - Save

The Two Babylons--Alexander Hislop

The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop. The classic 323-page book detailing the pagan origins of various Roman Catholic traditions. Now see this online book in an easy to browse format. ... The Two Babylons. or The Papal Worship Proved to be. the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife. By the Late Rev. Alexander Hislop ... to order this book and others on ... http://www.biblebelievers.com/babylon - 7k - Cached - More from this site - Save

The Two Babylons: The Invisible Head of the Papacy
by Alexander Hislop. Philologos Religious Online Books. http://www.Philologos.org.

The Two Babylons. Alexander Hislop. Chapter VII. Section V. The Name of the Beast, the Number of His Name-- The Invisible Head of the Papacy ... The name of the system is "Mystery" (Rev 17:5). Here ... Satur," the martyr. ( CHAMBER'S Book of Days ... http://www.philologos.org/__eb-ttb/sect75.htm - 53k - Cached - More from this site - Save

 

[thessalonian]

Oddly enough, I've been on message boards for 7-8 years now and I don't recall more times than I can count on my hand that I or another Catholic have said protestantism or protestants are cults. I have read many Catholic apologetics books. Far more than you and have NOT ONCE read of Protestants as being cults. Now perhaps once or twice along the way someone called your group one. But I don't believe it is nearly as common as your making it sound. You can do searches on all the major message boards and prove me wrong I suppose. Or perhaps if I choose to undertake such research it will prove you wrong. That I believe is far more likely.

 

[MrVersatile48]

Thess, U R talking 2 an ex-UK *1 sales rep/telesalesman - in several international & national companies - who can smell the proverbial at many paces

Were any readers on RC-led http://www.xt3.com forum Feb/Apr 2005?

Many who, at first, enthusiastically welcomed my many insights @ Intelligent Design & fulfilled Bible prophecy, soon did very dirty tricks indeed when JP2's illness & death brought RC system into regular headline news

Same @ http://www.christianforums.com Jan 2004 till June 2005

& the old Christianity & Renewal mag's forum - many may recall the dramatic cover of their gun culture issue when an old guy was not only hassled mercilessly but had his life specifically threatened, causing this here ex-security guard - (from a longstanding military family, 3 years running in a champion martial arts team & personally undefeated in tournament competition) - to somewhat take 'em to task, resulting in an online threat to come after me with a car load of gunmen

I only got it 45 mins after posted, so I called cops & went out looking for 'em - complete with my little Rambo kit - in every pub from Southport to Waterloo, discreetly followed by unmarked CID car, as I casually & cordialy asked if any army men had yet been in asking for me, teling them where I was headed next, & showing my kit so they knew it was no joke

(saying, "If ya see 'em, tell 'em I'm ready 4 'em")

Anyway, many evangelicals will be all too aware that popes, cardinals, priests etc have OFTEN called ALL leaders of ALL revivals since the Reformation 'heretics'

Any readers seen how Acts 17:11 compares the Bereans' character to the Thessalonians'?

Has he sent any other poster here 5 PMs in 1 day using every trick in the book to stop you exposing RC system for what it is?

Who do ya think ya foolin', "Thess", eh?

Fear not, the rest of you - as the Bible says 366 times - once for each day of the year - even @ Leap Year, yes?

Muslims have threatened my life several times for exposing Islam online so many times too

"My times are in His hands"

God bless all who take God @ His Word!

Ian

 

[MrVersatile48]

duplicate: sorry!

Ian

 

[thessalonian]

:crazyeyes:

 

[cj]

The pope wears funny hats and sits on top of a basement full of earthly gold.

That's about the extent of the truth found in Rome.

cj

 

[MrVersatile48]

FORGOT THOSE 2 FILM LINKS PROMISED: SORRY!!

Links @ the end, OK? :

I'm trying to keep it to Bible principles: that's exactly the point, because it's a very common RC trick to claim, "It's only Luther..Calvin..Billy Graham..Alex Hislop..etc who says these things" - as a subtle way of maligning Man's Maker's Manual, the Bible, as it's actually what God's Word says, in so many words, that those RC apologists deny & malign

For any readers who ain't seen the cartoon movie of Robin Hood, Sir Hiss is the snake character, who sings, while hypnotising the heroine:-

"Trus-s-s-s-st in me...

Jus-s-s-st in me..." :evil:

The whole point of what many evangelicals, ever since the Reformation, are saying is that God makes the rules..God calls the shots..& that anything vital for salvation & growth in Christ-like character is in the Bible

Also, like the Bereans in Acts 17:11, that anything any preacher says should be compared to the Bible by Christian hearers; we have a duty to do that

Here's a timely link to an article about that RC tactic of labeling evangelical groups as 'cults', when the true meaning of a cult is a group whose teachings patently disagree with the Bible over the Deity of Christ, the way of salvation & the supreme authority of the Word of God:-

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/003/15.27.html

RCs falsely call 'Sola Scriptura' a 'heresy' - just as they have falsely called the leaders of every revival since the Reformation 'heretics'

As has been repeatedly shown, & is the main thrust of The Two Babylons, ALL the distinctive RC dogma & practices are clearly unscriptural & their roots are painstakingly traced back to the forbidden Babylon pagan occult mystery religion dogma & practices

As I've often had to say, in my 4.5 years on various Christian discussion sites like this, we all should be aware that many more folk read the threads than post on them :roll:

It's very common indeed to see over 10 times as many views as there are posts - sometimes, over 20 times as many, yes?

That's why I try always to "K.I.S.S" - ("Keep It Simple, Stupid!" 8-)

Mind you, having graduated where the homiletics (=art of preaching) professor forever encouraged me to "strive for excellence" - by which he meant long words & multi-clause sentences - I 1st had to learn the hard way that I was going way over most folks' heads :o

In other words, I 1st had to learn to "M.I.S.S" - ('Make It Simple, Stupid!') ;-)

There are many, many details in The Two Babylons

Just as the media use the process of gradual info, I try my best to keep things bite-sized, so as not to over-face many readers & so as to give other folks a chance to contribute :

Also, if you click my profile & 'find all posts by...', you'll see that I'm by no means fixated on this subject, but do my best to provide as wide a variety of posts/threads as possible 8-)

Thinks: it's @ 2 weeks since I saw "Walk The Line"... :angel:

I'd best see if there's yet a movie review thread @ it, as today's posts kinda make it very timely.. :

Yup: just 2 help us all walk the line for Lent...

& to prepare for Good Friday UK-wide walks of witness/open-airs...

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=21237

& forevermore, DV...

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=21264

A for the Oscars....

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=21320

To close, Thess, I'll get to your latest 3-emails-in-1-day now..

& however pathetically annoying they - & you - might be, my prayer for you daily is that you'll let God take you to the next level: exactly what I pray for myself & for everyone - kinda like Rodney Howard Browne preached & demonstrated @ 5/6 hours ago on http://www.ini.tv from RT Kendal's church in London

Some readers may actually have deep hatred & bitterness for RC folk, & have not learned yet to "hate the sin but love the sinner"

The 1979 edition of http://www.OperationWorld.org assessed Eire (S Ireland) RC charismatic cell/house groups as "fully fulfilling the functuions of evangelical churches"

There was much Ulster tension, sonn after it came out, & some readers may recall me getting on BBC Radio Merseyside lunchtime phone-in then to quote that, adding that the news media never seem to report the god news - like the reconciliation projects that my fellow-Pentecostal & friend Stuart (the dad of OMD drummer) regularly went on

Many may have seen the lovely Dr James McConnell interview on God TV 1/2 days ago

James leads Belfast Metropolitan Tabernacle & has been preaching since aged 13, when he'd walk Belfast streets preaching & God has kept him safe

His last church, in a nationalist area, had nightly prayer meetings for years

& God kept them safe

My aunt worked in Belfast CAB all thru the Troubles

Some may know my 88-yrs-old FGBMFI pal, who has 3 weeks to go to get in the record books for longest time in the ministry


Pastor Bill started preaching at 13 too & the papers would have headlines @ "Boy Preacher goes to...

Must go!

 

[D46]

The pope wears funny hats and sits on top of a basement full of earthly gold.

That's about the extent of the truth found in Rome.

cj

That "funny hat" is a miter just like the one depicted on the fish-god, Dagon. Quite a similarity and those colorful "frocks" they wear!! : Would you trust someone who looked like that? Just like the Pharisees they talked the talk....

Matthew 23:5 (KJV) But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

Matthew 23:27-28 (KJV) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

http://idolpictures.tripod.com/idols/id7.html

 

[phatcatholic]

Mr.Versatile (or anyone else who will grant me a point-by-point rebuttal),

still waiting for a response to these points. i will break them up for you:

you do realize that there were many pagan gods that remind of Jesus, right? gods who become man, and are born of a virgin, and die for mankind are found throughout the pagan world. should we then use hislop's logic and assert that our beleifs about Jesus came from paganism too?

as for his scholarship (from this article):

• --the subtitle for Hislop’s book is “The Papal Worship Proved to Be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife.†but, refer­ence works such as the Encyclopedia Britannica, The Americana, The Jewish Encyclopedia, The Catholic Encyclopedia, and The Worldbook Encyclopedia say nothing about Nimrod and Semiramis being husband and wife. they did not even live in the same century

• 
  

  --Semiramis is apparently the mother of Tammuz, but this was nowhere to be found either

  --Hislop says that the “round†wafer used in the mass came from Egyptian paganism. For this he cites a statement in Wilkinson’s Ancient Egyptians (vol. 5, 353, 365) about the use of thin round cakes on their altars. however, Wilkinson’s work also said the Egyptians used oval and triangular cakes; folded cakes; cakes shaped like leaves, animals, and a crocodile’s head; and so on.

  the manna from heaven was around also (Exo 16:14-15), maybe we should condemn that while we're at it....

  --he says that Semiramis (or Isis) gave birth to Tammuz (or Horus) during the winter solstace, and that's the origin of the date when Christmas is celebrated. but, in Wilkinson's work, which he cites for this, the child born of Isis during that time was Harpocrates, not Tammuz, or Horus. so, Hislop basically just stick in the god that worked best for him.

  --In another appeal to Wilkinson, Hislop says that a Lent of 40 days was observed in Egypt. But when we look up the reference, Wilkinson says Egyptian fasts “lasted from seven to forty-two days, and sometimes even a longer period: during which time they abstained entirely from animal food, from herbs and vegetables, and above all from the indulgence of the passions†(Wilkinson, Ancient Egyptians, vol. 1, 278). With as much credibility, we could say they fasted 7 days, 10 days, 12 days, or 42 days. Hislop’s claim appears to have validity only because he used partial information.

How about a little history of Semiramis and Tammuz?

http://www.ldolphin.org/semir.html

http://bupc.montana.com/whores/worsemi.html

lets look at these links. the first one, which is entitled "SEMIRAMIS, QUEEN OF BABYLON" says in the very first sentence that Semiramis was married to Nimrod. i checked the resources used for this article to see how people keep coming up w/ this absurd notion. the first resource, ninevah.com, doesn't even have the article that was cited anymore, so i searched ninevah.com for "semiramis." only one result was provided, this one, and in it we read: "Ninus was the man who founded Ninus, in Aturia (Assyria) and his wife, Semiramis, was the woman who succeeded her husband...". Ninus was her husband, not Nimrod. again, Nimrod was of a completely different century. substituting "Nimrod" for "Ninus" is utterly arbitrary.

just b/c some pagans have a "Queen of Heaven" and Catholics call Mary the "Queen of Heaven" that doesn't mean that our beliefs about Mary come from pagan origin. again -- and this is very important -- similarity does not prove causality. like i said in my earlier post (did u even read it?), pagans also have gods who become man, are born of a virgin, and die for mankind. maybe then we should discredit Jesus? no one has yet to respond to this argument. please do so.

[quote:58ac0]December the 25th is the day celebrated for Tammuz’s birthday and that Roman Catholicism took this day and called it Jesus’ birthday. I found that Tammuz was called the messiah. All of this was found in secular history about one word, TAMMUZ, found only one time in the Bible, where God is showing Ezekiel the abominations that are in HIS HOUSE.

should we quit worshipping Jesus then? afterall, Tammuz and Jesus are both called the "messiah." do you see now the implications of hislop's logic on all of christianity? we would have to dismiss the worship of Christ altogether if we ran with hislop. afterall:

• "If finding a pagan parallel provides proof of paganism, the Lord Himself would be pagan. The woman called Mystery Babylon had a cup in her hand; the Lord has a cup in His hand (Ps. 75:8). Pagan kings sat on thrones and wore crowns; the Lord sits on a throne and wears a crown (Rev. 1:4; 14:14). Pagans worshiped the sun; the Lord is the “Sun of righteousness†(Mal. 4:2). Pagan gods were likened to stars; the Lord is called “the bright and Morning star†(Rev. 22:16). Pagan gods had temples dedicated to them; the Lord has a temple (Rev. 7:15). Pagans built a high tower in Babylon; the Lord is a high tower (2 Sam. 22:3). Pagans worshiped idolatrous pillars; the Lord appeared as a pillar of fire (Exod. 13: 21–22). Pagan gods were pictured with wings; the Lord is pictured with wings (Ps. 91:4). [ from this article ]

[/quote:58ac0]

also, why don't we let the Church speak for herself regarding this holiday, since she created it and all. after researching all of the primary source material on this holiday (instead of relying on silly myths and wishful thinking) the author of the New Advent article on Christmas [ here ] says that "the same instinct which set Natalis Invicti [a solar cult] at the winter solstice will have sufficed, apart from deliberate adaptation or curious calculation, to set the Christian feast there too."

firstly, there is simply no connection to Tammuz.

secondly, even the connection w/ this other pagan holiday should give us no cause for concern. that is b/c there is simply nothing wrong with taking something pagan and transforming it with Christian beliefs, rendering it no longer pagan. in a sense, that is the duty of every Christian: to transform this pagan world that we live in. before you set about a rebuttal, don't forget Isaiah, who called one of the five cities that swears allegiance to the Lord the "City of the Sun" (Isa 19:18) and Malachai, who refers to the Lord as "the Sun of righteousness." solar imagery is often used in the bible as a way to describe the Lord. it simply makes sense that early Christians would build on this biblical precedent when determining the date to celebrate Christ's birth.

[quote:58ac0]Semiramis has had quite a few names throughout history. Today in most of the world, she is simply called Mary, via the Romish community.

so two people have the same name.............big deal :roll: it proves nothing.[/quote:58ac0]

i look forward to a reasoned defense of hislop's logic and his scholarship via a point-by-point rebuttal of the points i have made here against his logic and scholarship. that is, afterall, the point of this thread. everything else is off topic. and lest i be accused of dodging something, start a new thread and i will be more than happy to respond to whatever you have to say. you all continue to try to change the subject of this thread. what would you think about that if i were to do such a thing? :smt017

Pax Christi,
phatcatholic

 

[MrVersatile48]

Hi Phat!

R U a fan of that great Christian band, Phatfish?

Anyway, I'll have to leave many details till Mon & even later, as I don't want to over-face folk with too much at once

For now, I'll just post this amazingly timely Word 4 Today to re-focus on our top-priority prime directive - Man's Maker's Manual: the Bible:-


Crosswalk - Every Day Light - What says the Scripture?, March 4, 2006
____________________________

E V E R Y D A Y L I G H T
Daily readings to help you see Jesus' light in your life
by Selwyn Hughes

What says the Scripture?
For reading & meditation: Matthew 22:23-33


"Jesus replied, You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or
the power of God." (v.29)

We spend one more day considering the proposition that apart from a
relationship with God and an understanding of the Scriptures, we are unable
to see life as a whole.

The man or woman who knows and understands theBible will be acquainted with the facts he or she needs to have in order to come to right and sound conclusions.

So immerse yourself in the Scriptures.

Understand that human nature is corrupt and that apart from the grace and
power of God men and women are unable to live up to their ideals. Realise
that the spiritual is more powerful than the material, and unless the
spirit is in control we will be driven by carnal desires.

When people say humanity is getting better and that sin and evil are just the "growing pains" of the human race - what are the facts?

You get them from the Scriptures and only from the Scriptures.

What does the Bible tell us about evil?

It says it is part of the human condition and can never be rooted out
except through the power and the grace of God. So study the facts of
Scripture.

Read them, memorise them, and meditate upon them. When next you
feel dispirited because you cannot make sense of something, ask yourself:
What are the facts?

Dig into the Scriptures and draw your perspective from what the Bible says.

The root of many of our emotional problems lies in a
lack of clear thinking - clear thinking based on Scripture.

Think as God thinks about issues and you will feel as God feels about them. For you are not what you think you are, but what you think you are.

Prayer:

Father, I see now why so often my thinking about life is confused - my
thinking is not based on the facts. Help me draw my deductions not from
what I see in the world but from what I see in the Word. In Jesus' Name.
Amen.

For further study:

2 Timothy 2:1-15;
1. What was Paul's exhortation to Timothy?
2. What is Scripture profitable for?

--------------------------------------------
Spoken from the Heart, by Selwyn Hughes
Find out more about this brand new book from Selwyn Hughes
http://www.crosswalkmail.com/bvczigz_ubfpwb.html
--------------------------------------------

For more devotional materials and books from Selwyn Hughes visit CWR Online
Store at: http://www.crosswalkmail.com/qaopeia_ubfpwb.html

Additional devotionals are available from Crosswalk.com:
http://www.crosswalkmail.com/jsakpcw_ubfpwb.html


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll just add, very briefly, that Tammuz et al were FALSE Messiahs

Acts 4:12 & John 14:6 are paramount here

Also, if any have the time to read the online book's sections on pagan occult madonna & child, you'll see that Isis & Osiris etc had incest - the son was called "Lover of the Mother"

I can't & won't type the modern obscene equivalent

Very briefly, the origins of paedophilia are right there in Chapter 2


Contents
Introduction

Chapter I
Distinctive Character of the Two Systems (35k)

Chapter II
Objects of Worship
Section I. Trinity in Unity (22k)
Section II. The Mother and Child, and the Original of the Child (14k)

Sub-Section I. The Child in Assyria (57k)
Sub-Section II. The Child in Egypt (22k)
Sub-Section III. The Child in Greece (28k)
Sub-Section IV. The Death of the Child (10k)
Sub-Section V. The Deification of the Child (61k)

Section III. The Mother of the Child (73k)

Chapter III
Festivals
Section I. Christmas and Lady-day (35k)
Section II. Easter (41k)
Section III. The Nativity of St. John (42k)
Section IV. The Feast of the Assumption (11k)
See Chapter V, Section IV regarding Cupid (St. Valentine's Day)

Chapter IV
Doctrine and Discipline
Section I. Baptismal Regeneration (47k)
Section II. Justification by Works (39k)
Section III. The Sacrifice of the Mass (25k)
Section IV. Extreme Unction (6k)
Section V. Purgatory and Prayers for the Dead (10k)

Chapter V
Rites and Ceremonies
Section I. Idol Procession (15k)
Section II. Relic Worship (16k)
Section III. The Clothing and Crowning of Images (17k)
Section IV. The Rosary and the Worship of the Sacred Heart (10k)
Section V. Lamps and Wax-Candles (18k)
Section VI. The Sign of the Cross (21k)

Chapter VI
Religious Orders
Section I. The Sovereign Pontiff (36k)
Section II. Priests, Monks, and Nuns (19k)

Chapter VII
The Two Developments Historically and Prophetically Considered
Section I. The Great Red Dragon (79k)
Section II. The Beast from the Sea (44k)
Section III. The Beast from the Earth (22k)
Section IV. The Image of the Beast (26k)
Section V. The Name of the Beast, the Number of His Name Invisible Head of the Papacy (47k)

Conclusion (28k)




Rather timely, with Garry Glitter verdict on news, to tell your friends why it's so prevalent in RC system

Must go!

Ian

 

[phatcatholic]

MrVersatile,

do you know what i mean by "point-by-point" rebuttal? maybe that is unclear, which would explain why i haven't received one up to this point. a point-by-point rebuttal is when you quote each point that i make and then you directly respond to it. instead of a general post about everything i've written you break it down and confront each of the points i have made. that way, you can say that you have directly addressed my post and it won't look like you have just glossed over my words or tried to avoid responding to them. in my last post, i put each point in its own quote box so that this will be easier for you to do.

personally, i feel that your last post was mostly off-topic and that you didn't really address anything i provided. i look forward to a more direct response to the statements i have made as soon as you get the chance.

Pax Christi,
phatcatholic

 

[phatcatholic]

no takers?

 

[MrVersatile48]

OK: how @ takers for the infallible, inerrant Word of God - Man's Maker's Manual - the Bible??

Don't miss the best & best-selling Book ever!

See http://www.ChristianBooks.com

Here's some of it now:-

Revelation 17 (New International Version)



Revelation 17
The Woman and the Beast

1One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters.
2With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries."

3Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.
4The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.

5This title was written on her forehead:
MYSTERY
BABYLON THE GREAT
THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6 I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.

When I saw her, I was greatly astonished.

7Then the angel said to me: "Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns.

8The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

9"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.

10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while.

11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

12"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.
13They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast.
14They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kingsâ€â€and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."

15Then the angel said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.
16The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
17For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God's words are fulfilled.
18The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."

Revelation 18 (New International Version)


Revelation 18

1After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. 2With a mighty voice he shouted:
"Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!
She has become a home for demons
and a haunt for every evil[a] spirit,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.
3For all the nations have drunk
the maddening wine of her adulteries.
The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."

4Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
"Come out of her, my people,
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
5for her sins are piled up to heaven,
and God has remembered her crimes.
6Give back to her as she has given;
pay her back double for what she has done.
Mix her a double portion from her own cup.
7Give her as much torture and grief
as the glory and luxury she gave herself.
In her heart she boasts,
'I sit as queen; I am not a widow,
and I will never mourn.'
8Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her:
death, mourning and famine.
She will be consumed by fire,
for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.

9"When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury see the smoke of her burning, they will weep and mourn over her. 10Terrified at her torment, they will stand far off and cry:
" 'Woe! Woe, O great city,
O Babylon, city of power!
In one hour your doom has come!'

11"The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes any more 12cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; 13cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and bodies and souls of men.

14"They will say, 'The fruit you longed for is gone from you. All your riches and splendor have vanished, never to be recovered.' 15The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her torment. They will weep and mourn 16and cry out:
" 'Woe! Woe, O great city,
dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet,
and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!
17In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!'

"Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off. 18When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, 'Was there ever a city like this great city?' 19They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out:
" 'Woe! Woe, O great city,
where all who had ships on the sea
became rich through her wealth!
In one hour she has been brought to ruin!
20Rejoice over her, O heaven!
Rejoice, saints and apostles and prophets!
God has judged her for the way she treated you.' "

21Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said:
"With such violence
the great city of Babylon will be thrown down,
never to be found again.
22The music of harpists and musicians, flute players and trumpeters,
will never be heard in you again.
No workman of any trade
will ever be found in you again.
The sound of a millstone
will never be heard in you again.
23The light of a lamp will never shine in you again.
The voice of bridegroom and bride
will never be heard in you again.
Your merchants were the world's great men.
By your magic spell all the nations were led astray.
24In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints,
and of all who have been killed on the earth."

 

[phatcatholic]

you're never going to directly address my posts, are you Mr. Versatile? what about that point that i bolded and put in red font so that you would see it? i specifically asked you for a point-by-point response, and this is what i get? i even put each one of my points in its own quote box so that you would know exactly what it is that you needed to respond to. you're being prideful by not admitting that you don't know how to respond to these points. if you knew how to respond to them, you would have done so by now. you have certainly had plenty of chances. this dialogue is pointless if you aren't going to even respond to what i write to you.

Mr.Versatile, please tell me, how does Rev 17 and 18 somehow prove that:
--similarity does equal causality,
--or that this causality argument of Hislop's would not have horrible implications for all of Christianity,
--or that our scholarly reference works do in fact substantiate what Hislop says about Nimrod and Semiramis,
--or that Hislop did not in fact misrepresent Wilkinson's Ancient Egyptians by selectively quoting it out of context and misquoting it altogether,
--or that what Hislop says about the round wafer would not in fact, by his logic, cause us to condemn God's use of the manna from heaven, which was also round,
--or that there is some historical basis for Hislop's explanation of the history of the celebration of Christ's birth on Dec. 25th,
--or that it is not in fact truly warranted, and even a biblical practice, to take something pagan and redeem it with Christian principles,
--or that b/c Semiramis and Mary had the same name, this does in fact somehow prove that the church's beliefs about Mary were thus the direct result of pagan beliefs about Semiramis????? :o

how does Rev 17 and 18 (in other words, your last post) prove all of these things? don't you see what you are doing? be humble, my friend, it is the only way to grow in knowledge and love of the Lord.

Peace of Christ to you,
phatcatholic

 

[MrVersatile48]

Phatcat..

Did anyone ever miaow in your ear just how boring your pathetic, pedantic smokescreens are?

I'll do my usual bite-size chunks some time when I don't have just 8 mins of my daily PC ration left

Here's a taster

The brilliantly-researched 'The Two Babylons' by Rev Alexander Hislop, not only gave much evidence for Peter never being in Rome, but much evidence for the DIFFERENT Peter, who WAS in Rome, being an occult leader

Back with link..

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 937#251937

Engage Da Vinci Code?

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... highlight=

 

[thessalonian]

Mr. Versitile,

Peter never being in Rome

Maybe you would like to try for the $10,000 I have offered. See this thread.

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=21586

Should be a piece of cake for you since your so sure. By the way was Mr. Foxe of Foxe's book of Martyrs fame wrong then?

 

[MrVersatile48]

Thinks... :o

& it ain't easy in a big library with a baby crying, 2/3 folk coughing & 2/3 other conversations also going on here... :roll:

now that should get y'all laughing.. :

but..

was it Mary, Queen of Scots who, presented with the sufferings of the poor in a famine which left 'em without bread, said, "Let them eat cake?" 8-)

Was it she...

not Scousers..

who invented the slang, 'cake-hole'?? :bday:

Anyway...

for your further delectation & delight...

as the MC of the Good Old Days used to say...

gavel raised...

here's a timely Word 4 Today from Crusade for World Revival founder, Selwyn Hughes:-

Crosswalk - Every Day Light - No satisfying substitute, March 18, 2006
Date Sat, 18 Mar 2006

Message

____________________________

E V E R Y D A Y L I G H T
Daily readings to help you see Jesus' light in your life
by Selwyn Hughes


No satisfying substitute

For reading & meditation: John 6:60-71
"Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life."

For reading & meditation John 6:60-71(v.68)

We come now to what is without question the topmost rung of the ladder
which the psalmist began to ascend when he entered the sanctuary of God.

Here, in view of his experience, he can do nothing but give himself to the
adoration of God.

This is what he says: "Whom have I in heaven but you? And earth has nothing I desire besides you" (Psa. 73:25).

The inevitable consequence of working through our problems in the presence of God is that we worship Him. Countless times I have seen people fall upon their knees at the end of a profitable counselling session and worship God.

In fact, this is one of the great purposes of Christian counselling - to enlighten people about their spiritual resources and help free them to draw closer to God.

The psalmist has found that there is no one in earth or heaven who can do
for him what God has done. He has come to realise that when he plays truant with the Almighty there is simply no way in which he can make sense of life; that, as Othello put it: "Chaos is come again."[/b]

Have you come to this same place in your own life?

Can you say that you have seen through everything in this life and have come to the conclusion that nothing can satisfy you but God?

Then you are in the happy position of the disciples who, pausing to consider how they could replace Jesus, said "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life."

They saw, as hopefully you have seen, that there is no satisfying substitute for Jesus.

Prayer:

O Father, how can I ever be grateful enough for the realisation that no one
can do for me what You can do? You are my centre and my circumference; I
begin and end with You. May the wonder of it go deep within me today and
every day. Amen.

For further study:

Jeremiah 2:1-13; Isaiah 55:1-3

1. What had the children of Israel done?
2. What did God offer them?

--------------------------------------------
Spoken from the Heart, by Selwyn Hughes
Find out more about this brand new book from Selwyn Hughes
http://www.crosswalkmail.com/clahobi_vzkfjz.html
--------------------------------------------

For more devotional materials and books from Selwyn Hughes visit CWR Online
Store at: http://www.crosswalkmail.com/vmfkztt_vzkfjz.html

Additional devotionals are available from Crosswalk.com:
http://www.crosswalkmail.com/gdtzepl_vzkfjz.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just time to add that, to put God 1st - as in what Jesus called, 'the 1st & greatest commandment' - inc taking God at His Word - trusting Him

OOPS; PC NO WORK PROPER - BACK LATER - but those of you who struggled with the missing 't's & 'h's for the past 10 minutes can put ya eyes back in now..

It was just what we Brits laughingly call..

a 'T' break!!

(with added 'h' & 'c' - presumably offering Hot Chocolate to the thirsty/sleepy/weary?)

Of course, Jesus said, "Come unto ME - (not to my mum) - all who labour & are heavy laden & I will give you rest for your souls: take My yoke upon you & learn of Me, for I am humble & lowly in heart"

(Unlike dictatorial papal bulls, etc!)

Here's a 2nd timely Word 4 Today that only came in that 10 minutes, from http://www.Anchorlife.com:-

Thought for the Day

Thought for the Day
March 18 & 19, 2006



Growing in Your Relationship with God

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Today
* Spiritual Secret
* Today's Read through the Bible Passage

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spiritual Secret



Remain in me, and I will remain in you. (NIV) John
15:4


>From Hudson Taylor's "Spiritual Secret":



"Hudson Taylor did not start out to impact 'millions.'
He started out to love God, to honor Him, and to
share His love with individual sinners who needed to
desperately to know Him.

Jesus called Taylor (and us) to be 'faithful,' not 'successful.'"



"It was that love that as the days went on made it
such a keen distress to fail in the old ways and lose
the joy of His conscious presence. . . .he could not
be satisfied with anything less than the best, God's
best--the real and constant enjoyment of His
presence.

"To go without this was to live without
sunlight, to work without power."



"The life that was to be exceptionally fruitful had to
be rooted and grounded in God in no ordinary way."




[James Hudson Taylor (1832-1905) was one of the
first missionaries to China and was the founder of the
China Inland Mission. His initial goal was to have 24
workers in China. He labored in China for 40 years. At
his death in 1905, there were 205 missionary stations
with 849 missionaries and 125,000 Chinese Christians
in the China Inland Mission.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thinks...

I wonder if his typewriter faithfully succeeded to malfunction??



Anyway..

the only thing God has managed to impress on my mind to share, in this noisy place, is - as always - for the benefit of unbiased, open-minded readers

I'll flip back to where I posted the online verion of The Two Babylons

The highlights for today that may inspire some to actually get this worthy tome @ http://www.ChristianBooks.com are...

RC statues, art & thinking, try to keep Christ as a perpetual baby, who they think that they can con

I already highlighted the book's chapter 2 @ the whole madonna/child thing in the forbidden occult of Babylon, Egypt, Assyria, etc

In all these - just as he quotes from many RC writings - the male infant 'god' is regarded as angry & vengeful, so their fave object of worship & prayer is the mother - who gets her 'divinity' from her 'divine son' - yet mixes guile with her exalted womanly gentleness & has power & authority to bend her errant son to do HER will, HER bidding - so with Isis & Osiris, etc

This idolatrous blasphemy makes Mary - falsely - superior to Christ & robs Jesus of His godly character & Almighty power!

Look back to page 5's revelations about that aspect of the occult inspiring paedophilia

Can unbiased readers see 1 hint of remorse, let alone true repentance, from these RC false prophets?

Look thru from top of page 2's succinct expose of the many major errors & heresies of the deceitful RC system

Do you see any hint of saving repentance of such false dogmas & dangerous practices in all this long thread?

As Iv'e often asked folk to click my profile & then 'find all posts by...', I do urge competent Bible teachers reading this to click the profiles of both Thess & Phat, & 'find all posts by...' & correct their insidious poison, wherever you find it

Why?

So that the gullible & unwary are not led astray

As for false prophets/teachers, 'land that has much rain fall on it & yet.....shall suddenly be cursed'

They both try - by subtle, deception, to deny that Revelation 17 & 18 has any relevance to them or to their perverted RC system

They both try to assert that any reference to Man's Maker's Manual - the Bible - is off topic

It was the Bible that inspired & led Hislop's painstaking research

Back with links...

WEB RESULTS

The Two Babylons: Table of Contents
by Alexander Hislop. Philologos Religious Online Books. http://www.Philologos.org. The Two Babylons. or The Papal Worship. Proved to be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife. By the Late Rev. Alexander Hislop http://www.philologos.org/__eb-ttb - 10k - Cached - More from this site - Save
Index - The Two Babylons

The Two Babylons gives proof of the Babylonian character of the Papal church. ... The Two Babylons. (or The Papal Worship Proved to be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife). An extremely well-researched study by the Rev. Alexander Hislop ... http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/2babindx.htm - 8k - Cached - More from this site - Save

The Two Babylons--Alexander Hislop

The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop. The classic 323-page book detailing the pagan origins of various Roman Catholic traditions. Now see this online book in an easy to browse format. ... The Two Babylons. or The Papal Worship Proved to be. the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife. By the Late Rev. Alexander Hislop ... to order this book and others on ... http://www.biblebelievers.com/babylon - 7k - Cached - More from this site - Save

The Two Babylons: The Invisible Head of the Papacy
by Alexander Hislop. Philologos Religious Online Books. http://www.Philologos.org.

The Two Babylons. Alexander Hislop. Chapter VII. Section V. The Name of the Beast, the Number of His Name-- The Invisible Head of the Papacy ... The name of the system is "Mystery" (Rev 17:5). Here ... Satur," the martyr. ( CHAMBER'S Book of Days ... http://www.philologos.org/__eb-ttb/sect75.htm - 53k - Cached - More from this site - Save


Contents
Introduction

Chapter I
Distinctive Character of the Two Systems (35k)

Chapter II
Objects of Worship
Section I. Trinity in Unity (22k)
Section II. The Mother and Child, and the Original of the Child (14k)

Sub-Section I. The Child in Assyria (57k)
Sub-Section II. The Child in Egypt (22k)
Sub-Section III. The Child in Greece (28k)
Sub-Section IV. The Death of the Child (10k)
Sub-Section V. The Deification of the Child (61k)

Section III. The Mother of the Child (73k)

Chapter III
Festivals
Section I. Christmas and Lady-day (35k)
Section II. Easter (41k)
Section III. The Nativity of St. John (42k)
Section IV. The Feast of the Assumption (11k)
See Chapter V, Section IV regarding Cupid (St. Valentine's Day)

Chapter IV
Doctrine and Discipline
Section I. Baptismal Regeneration (47k)
Section II. Justification by Works (39k)
Section III. The Sacrifice of the Mass (25k)
Section IV. Extreme Unction (6k)
Section V. Purgatory and Prayers for the Dead (10k)

Chapter V
Rites and Ceremonies
Section I. Idol Procession (15k)
Section II. Relic Worship (16k)
Section III. The Clothing and Crowning of Images (17k)
Section IV. The Rosary and the Worship of the Sacred Heart (10k)
Section V. Lamps and Wax-Candles (18k)
Section VI. The Sign of the Cross (21k)

Chapter VI
Religious Orders
Section I. The Sovereign Pontiff (36k)
Section II. Priests, Monks, and Nuns (19k)

Chapter VII
The Two Developments Historically and Prophetically Considered
Section I. The Great Red Dragon (79k)
Section II. The Beast from the Sea (44k)
Section III. The Beast from the Earth (22k)
Section IV. The Image of the Beast (26k)
Section V. The Name of the Beast, the Number of His Name Invisible Head of the Papacy (47k)

Conclusion (28k)