Extramarital heterosexual sex

DarkHorseRising · Jun 9, 2012

I'm curious as to why we aren't doing more in Christianity to stop this. It's far, far more prevalent than homosexual sex, and yet we turn a blind eye to it. I think we need to get serious about it and enact the following changes in our churches:

1. Nobody who has engaged in extramarital sex is permitted to hold church office or be in a leadership position.

2. Anyone suspected of heterosexual sex outside marriage is to be denied access to any church group until they repent and undergo extensive corrective measures.

3. People who have experienced heterosexual sex outside marriage (or who have felt such temptations) mus confess them to the congregation and ask for forgiveness before both the congregation and God.

Just ideas, not necessarily mine, but I'm looking forward to PAGES and PAGES and PAGES of discussion and passionate debate about this prevalent topic.

Danus · Jun 9, 2012

you have the best post today DarkHorseRising. All I can say to this one, is that Christianity is not a club for good people. It is a relationship with God. We are not to worship the church, nor is the church itself the authority. The Church is subservient to God, yet it has, from time to time, forgotten it's place. This happens when we place the church before God.

HeisReal · Jun 9, 2012

I agree with what you have said, but it's still a personal choice to commit that sin. Advising and educating people on God's view of adultery is the only thing you can do. Living in America we have sex thrown at us just about everywhere, which is what probably initiates much of the thought of adultery. A strong relationship with God is the best foundation to have a marraige built upon.

Roof · Jun 9, 2012

DarkHorseRising said:
2. Anyone suspected of heterosexual sex outside marriage is to be denied access to any church group until they repent and undergo extensive corrective measures.

and anyone suspected of gossip should also be denied

reba · Jun 9, 2012

Dark i see you are being sarcastic..

You wont get pages and pages, from me, because i do agree with most of what you said...
I fully believe in forgiveness and His forgiveness is totally complete....
Using public figures for examples...

Swaggart Bakker Haggie Haggard, Richard Roberts unnamed RCC priest TBN , I am sure the list could go on and on... These folks should have enough respect for the gospel to step down.
Yes we all make mistakes on going affairs ANY SEX are not a mistake, they dont just happen they are planned for covered up etc... Not the same as smashing one finger and spouting a ugly word.
Seems a bit different to me when a person uses the ministry to hide or facilitate such repeated sin. holding a high standard would be good for the church.

The unsaved guy that is a all around creep ....has his encounter with the Lord... is a new man in Christ... my view on that guy is different....

I know my words are not popular.

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

Slider · Jun 9, 2012

What would you have done with David, then? God handled the situation, and he didn't take those drastic measures (they were worse) but it didn't get him kicked out of his leadership, nor did it prevent him from fulfilling all the will of God.

It's a terrible situation, no denying it. But it may not always be a good thing when the congregation decides it's bigger than God's chosen spokesman.

Just something to think about.

Pizzaguy · Jun 9, 2012

I have often thought of what the OP brings up, and here is what I have come to:

The severity of a sin is based on a personal opinion, therefore, homosexuality is way worse than hetero extra-marital sex because most of us are hetero. We ALL want to believe we are right and everyone else is wrong. We ALL want to beleive that we are ok, and that any "wrath of God" out there is for someone else.

Oh, sure, there are verses that state the homo sex is an "abomination" - but it also says that the prideful won't inherit the kingdom either, and we pretty much ignore that. We can twist scripture to mean anything, and I think God wants it that way -to see what we do as individuals with scripture.

DarkHorseRising · Jun 9, 2012

Pizzaguy said:
but it also says that the prideful won't inherit the kingdom either

But that's no fun!! I can see myself succumbing to pride... how am I supposed to talk down to homosexuals if I might also be guilty of sin???????

jasoncran · Jun 9, 2012

there has to be a balence. remember online chat/debate forums are prone to well egos and so forth.

my pastor while not perfect does preach against all sins. he doenst zero in one or the other. christians would rather waste time arguing the word then living it out at times.

that is just an observation from here and other forums and im guilty of that myself. sadly

Pizzaguy · Jun 9, 2012

DarkHorseRising said:
But that's no fun!! I can see myself succumbing to pride... how am I supposed to talk down to homosexuals if I might also be guilty of sin???????

Easy, just tell yourself:

1) My sin is not as bad as their sin.
or
2) My sin is forgiven, theirs is not forgiven (for what ever theological reason you can invent).
or
3) Tell yourself you are just trying to help them because your sin is forgiven (even tho it is ongoing sin) and theirs is not forgiven (because theirs is ongoing sin).

Got it? ;) I hope so, I'm going hiking... back in about six hours.

reba · Jun 9, 2012

Slider said:
What would you have done with David, then? God handled the situation, and he didn't take those drastic measures (they were worse) but it didn't get him kicked out of his leadership, nor did it prevent him from fulfilling all the will of God.

It's a terrible situation, no denying it. But it may not always be a good thing when the congregation decides it's bigger than God's chosen spokesman.

Just something to think about.

I agree with almost everything you said.
Please note i said step down not kicked out..

and he didn't take those drastic measures

His child died. that is drastic.

Classik · Jun 9, 2012

reba said:
Dark i see you are being sarcastic..

You wont get pages and pages, from me, because i do agree with most of what you said...
I fully believe in forgiveness and His forgiveness is totally complete....
Using public figures for examples...

Swaggart Bakker Haggie Haggard, Richard Roberts unnamed RCC priest TBN , I am sure the list could go on and on... These folks should have enough respect for the gospel to step down.
Yes we all make mistakes on going affairs ANY SEX are not a mistake, they dont just happen they are planned for covered up etc... Not the same as smashing one finger and spouting a ugly word.
Seems a bit different to me when a person uses the ministry to hide or facilitate such repeated sin. holding a high standard would be good for the church.

The unsaved guy that is a all around creep ....has his encounter with the Lord... is a new man in Christ... my view on that guy is different....

I know my words are not popular.

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

The new you. Hehe!
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And perhpas your longest post on the site. Haha. The new you with a long post, fairly long.

Former Christian · Jun 9, 2012

We should get rid of those guys who are always sticking their nose where it doesn't belong, in other people's business. Our sins our own. Our sins are between us and God. Not between us and the whole dadblamed Church. Unless you're a Catholic. Even then you only have to confess to one Priest. I'm not even a Christian, yet I believe that the Old Testament is part of the bible. David committed murder and adultery. Yet God kept him in the position of King until he died. He repented and didn't have to go anywhere. Saul didn't repent and was killed. Of course, to you New Testament Onlyists, that means nothing at all. And David was under the Law. A much stricter situation than Christians have to deal with today. Most Christians believe that the Law was abolished. Even those who still believe in the ten commandments. It's OK to kill murderers. But not Adulterers. So much for believing in the ten commandments. I say stone the ones who get into your business before you stone the adulterers. And stone the adulterers before you stone the homosexuals. Can't stone those like myself who, knowing what Christians are about, will hide my sin from them. Even I know better than to try to hide my sins from God.

NC

Chris. · Jun 9, 2012

This probably affects more people and is a little too close to home for comfort to make a big noise about.

Affected people usually want it buried and forgotten.

If those involved stop and repent then I don't see a problem same as any other sin with regard to positions of leadership.

Stopping extra marital affairs in people is a bit like trying to hold back the tide. It is going to happen and keep happening. It happens to the strongest christians in mismatched marriages.

Optimism and idealism says it shouldn't or wont happen but realism knows it is going to because of our nature of desires.

Education could reduce it but desperately lonely people could turn a blind eye to advice.

Forgiveness and repentance is key here.

John 8:7

When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

Chris. · Jun 9, 2012

Roof said:
and anyone suspected of gossip should also be denied

No.1 evil intent harm doer in church! Gossiping and making up stuff where blanks exist is evil. Many good people no longer attend churches or have left the faith because of this.

handy · Jun 9, 2012

How are we to look at this portion of Scripture then... as something archaric and better ignored... or should this be something that the Church practices?

It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his fatherâ€™s wife. 2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.
3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindlerâ€”not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves. 1 Corinthians 5

Is there ever a call to excommunicate anyone anymore? I'm sure that most would rush to get rid of a guy sleeping with his father's wife... but what about the covetous (especially in light of the covetousness that is often preached from many pulpits)... a drunkard? A reviler? We're told to remove the wicked man from ourselves... do we do it?

Chris. · Jun 9, 2012

handy said:
How are we to look at this portion of Scripture then... as something archaric and better ignored... or should this be something that the Church practices?

It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife. 2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.
3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves. 1 Corinthians 5

Is there ever a call to excommunicate anyone anymore? I'm sure that most would rush to get rid of a guy sleeping with his father's wife... but what about the covetous (especially in light of the covetousness that is often preached from many pulpits)... a drunkard? A reviler? We're told to remove the wicked man from ourselves... do we do it?

handy I always took that passage to mean those guilty of unrepentant sin should be ostracised, Paul was discussing something pretty extreme there. Not those caught in accidental and repentant sin or none of us would be allowed in church and especially me!

I have seen this excommunication done 2 times to people who had affairs before time passed and they were counselled for it.

Years later they both ended up back in church and one as a minister. He was a very good minister too.

Vic C. · Jun 9, 2012

2. Anyone suspected of heterosexual sex outside marriage is to be denied access to any church group until they repent and undergo extensive corrective measures

Are we called to act on suspicions? Or facts?

Also, how extreme are these measures?

I'm not disagreeing with the OP, but I feel like Reba does; this has the feeling of sarcasm. I hope I'm wrong

Hey Chris... good post. :thumbsup

Like Roof, I feel gossip to be an issue we in the churches need to deal with also.

Mike · Jun 10, 2012

reba said:
Dark i see you are being sarcastic..

You wont get pages and pages, from me, because i do agree with most of what you said...

Good on both points. :yes

You don't find pages and pages result of OP's like this, because you rarely have the opposing POV represented on this board. We had a few members who joined for a brief time several months back did come with the argument that fornication was justified. And they never let up! :gah

Someone with a lifestyle of heterosexual fornication is destructive to a body of believers as is a gossiper, and if we're told otherwise, we will step up and denounce it.

Kidron · Jun 10, 2012

DarkHorseRising said:
3. People who have experienced heterosexual sex outside marriage (or who have felt such temptations) mus confess them to the congregation and ask for forgiveness before both the congregation and God.

If there are any Christians, who are married, and they have not ever felt a > temptation of lust< towards anyone of the opposite sex, then that Christian probably does not have a pulse.
You have to remember......"temptation" is not necessarily a sin......as "Jesus was TEMPTED in all points just like YOU, but yet, he committed no sin".
So, its not a good idea to have all Christians confess to being tempted, as if that happens, you'll eventually have to confess just like your pastor had to confess.

K

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