Faith alone questions

[Randy]

How many churches are found in scripture?

Matt 6:33
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:17
Lk 22:29
Jn 10:16
1 Tim 3:15
Gal 4:26
Heb 12:22

Jesus named 7 in that day in Revelation. I don't know how many He would name today but He knows, and I know Him.
The eastern orthodox church specifically states they are not under the authority of a Catholic Pope. In fact they still state the Spirit proceeds from the Father.

 

[GodsGrace]

In this scenario did you call on Him in prayer?
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

You could not have had believing faith in Him apart from the Father.
He follows His Fathers will.
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

Agreed.
Let's see what donadams responds...

 

[Randy]

Hi David,
You're writing to donadams above, but I'm trying to catch up with my posts and fell upon this.

I wouldn't want to prove apostolic succession from the bible because it's something that happened after Jesus death and also the death of the Apostles.

Succession has to be learned by learning church history.
Church history is not in the NT because it happened after the writings.

I'm not Catholic but I do agree with some of their teachings and I do believe the CC is the original church, though I know most of my Protestant brothers disagree with me. I did NOT say the True chuch, I said the Original, or First church.

Apostolic succession means that the Apostles taught others what Jesus taught them.
Some of these would be:
Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch (one of my favorites),
Polycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and others.

When the above died, they had taught others, and so on until today.

This succession was broken in about the year 1,000 when the Orthodox Church broke away due to a couple of important disputes, The filoque and the authority of only One Pope instead of local Bishops.

This makes a lot of sense to me and has nothing to do with doctrine.
A person could still agree or disagree with doctrine, but how do we disagree with history?

There will be no changes or additions to the Apostolic authority found in the NT. But in any issue, Jesus who lives, and is the head of the body of Christ listens and answers the prayers of the children of God.

But note even during the days of the apostles God was involved in such foundations.
Acts 15:28
It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There is only one true church, and that is The Church...The Body of Christ.
His Bride.

Can you explain this to donadams , please?

 

[GodsGrace]

Can you explain this to donadams , please?

Don has his own ideas.
I have tried.
If he thinks the CC is the TRUE church, I'm afraid he's sadly mistaken.
It's so far removed from its beginnings it can't even be recognized.

 

[GodsGrace]

There will be no changes or additions to the Apostolic authority found in the NT. But in any issue, Jesus who lives, and is the head of the body of Christ listens and answers the prayers of the children of God.

But note even during the days of the apostles God was involved in such foundations.
Acts 15:28
It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:

I don't really know what you're saying....

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You say that to be born again - saved - we must have faith and baptism.

I agree actually. Jesus said we must be baptized.

There's a lot of things that God commands that we must do. But the issue is NONE of those things MAKES you righteous. The Catholic church says a person is justified by, both, faith and works. But it is faith, all by itself, that makes a person righteous. Their belief about what makes a person righteous is what makes the Catholic church a works justification religion.

Paul takes us all the way back to the example of Abraham and how he was justified by faith all by itself apart from works - before the law, before the new covenant, long before the Catholic church - to show us how we, too, become righteous when we believe God's promise of a Son, apart from the doing of righteous deeds and rituals. The Catholic church completely ignores this truth. They changed Christianity it into a 'faith and works' justification religion.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Don has his own ideas.
I have tried.
If he thinks the CC is the TRUE church, I'm afraid he's sadly mistaken.
It's so far removed from its beginnings it can't even be recognized.

He thinks 'the church' is a group of leaders.

Can you explain to him it is the sum total of all believers, from the greatest to the least of us?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There's no continuing office of Apostles.

The Bible speaks of the office of apostle, not a lineage of apostles.

Is that gift and calling still active today? I don't know. As you know, most Protestants operate under the Pastor/Elder model of church leadership, alone, in one form or another. And it works.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But the CC does not teach works in any way other than how you and I believe works are to be done AFTER we're saved.

I'm confident that the Catholic church says a person is justified by faith and works. They say the justification by works that James talks about is the same justification that Paul talks about in Romans. They rationalize that by saying Paul is saying works of the law , specifically, are what don't justify, and that he's actually saying faith plus new covenant rituals and good deeds justify a person. And so that's how they (erroneously) reconcile James' teaching on justification with Paul's seemingly contradictory teaching on justification. But we can plainly see from the example of Abraham that Paul is saying no work or ritual, in or out of the law, can make a person righteous. Only receiving the promise of God by faith can do that.

 

[Randy]

I don't really know what you're saying....

I didn't mean to confuse you. I wanted you to see it wasn't one man acting on their own but a group consensus with Gods approval.

 

[donadams]

God does not justify a person for doing righteous rituals and deeds. That is the works justification gospel condemned in scripture. God justifies the person who has faith in the Promise, apart from the doing of rituals and deeds, just as that was true for Abraham our example of how a person is justified by faith apart from works. But if you are sure our example of how to be justified was justified by faith and works show us what work he did to become righteous.

If faith ain’t a deed then neither is baptism you can’t baptize yourself

 

[donadams]

The grace of justification, yes.

What other grace is there?

 

[Scripture Says]

and the poor guy that has salvific faith and on the way to get water baptized gets hit by a car and killed. That would suck.

Same foolishness having altar calls at the end of church service and someone who Already believes on his name is thinking he has to wait for the preacher to ask him if he wants to accept Jesus as his savior...lol. thats not how it works... you Dont control when you believe it just happens.

 

[donadams]

Your Catholic leadership ignores the verses that plainly tell us that the person who believes is saved, now, not just at the return of Christ. Are you afraid of their threats that you will be cut off from Christ if you don't agree with their (false) teachings, even though you can see for yourself that they are wrong?

And these scriptures

Matt 24:13 he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

27. Heb 1:14 shall be heirs of salvation

 

[donadams]

Where does scripture say you can decide?

Pride presumption and arrogance makes itself the arbiter of truth and not Christ and his church! Jn 14:6 1 Tim 3:15

The nature of pride is to protest and be in a constant state of rebellion

Jn 8:32 the truth shall make you free! So false doctrine shall hold you in bondage!

Spiritual blindness!

Saul thought he was doing the will of God and acting righteously with correct faith!

Then the risen Christ appeared!
The blinding light of truth prevailed!

Rather than violate the “golden rule”

Let us examine ourselves and see if our motive is the virtues of Jesus Christ, humility, meekness & charity
Matt 11:29 or the vices of pride, presumption, and arrogance.


Motive
Humility or pride
Obedience or disobedience
Meek or arrogance
Submission to proper authority or protest
Receive instruction or presumption

Scripture says we must be taught or instructed

Lk 1:4
Matt 28:19
Jn 20:21
Acts 8:31
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

The virtues of a true Christian are the virtues of Jesus Christ!

Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you, and learn ofme; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Thanks

 

[donadams]

You left out "faith". Kind of hard to believe in the Lord at that age.
Are you now stating faith in Christ is not required for salvation? Just baptism?
Acts 8
Here is an example of believers who were baptized in Jesus's name and did not receive the Spirit during that baptism.
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

The parents have faith and pledge to raise the child in the faith and the fear of the lord, educate as they grow up, then they are confirmed in the faith another sacrament or make a profession of faith
And God parents also in case something happens to the parents
And the little one fo believe

Matt 18:6
Thanks

 

[donadams]

Jesus is the redeemer of all those who believe in Him.

You are confusing redemption with salvation
Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23


Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Glorification:

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If faith ain’t a deed then neither is baptism you can’t baptize yourself

Right. Baptism is a ritual. Just like circumcision was a ritual.

Faith in God's promise is what makes you righteous, not the performance of righteous rituals and deeds. You are not made righteous because you performed a righteous ritual or deed. You are made righteous because you believed God's promise about his Son. This truth is a stumbling block to Catholics who cannot accept the teaching that you don't have to do something righteous to become righteous. That is foolishness to the natural mind, but the power and wisdom of God to the spiritual mind.

 

[Mungo]

Right. Baptism is a ritual. Just like circumcision was a ritual.

Faith in God's promise is what makes you righteous, not the performance of righteous rituals and deeds. You are not made righteous because you performed a righteous ritual or deed. You are made righteous because you believed God's promise about his Son. This truth is a stumbling block to Catholics who cannot accept the teaching that you don't have to do something righteous to become righteous. That is foolishness to the natural mind, but the power and wisdom of God to the spiritual mind.

Going back over your last 10 posts (I didn't bother going any further back) I note that all you give are your opinions - not backed up by any scripture (or any other evidence).
donadams quotes lot of scripture.
Do you think your opinions trump scripture?