Highway54
Member
The term apostle was only applied to I believe 14 persons sir. All died in the first century. They did not have the same authority as Christ, and they made disciples, who continued on to make more disciples, etc.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Faith alone questions
- Thread starter donadams
- Start date
Hello Highway54, are those two of the beliefs that are held by Preterists?
Thanks!
--David
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Could you post an authorized source explaining Redemption?
Thanks.
Highway54
Member
Hi David, I admit that I had to look up the definition of that word sir, but by definition I have to obviously say yes, since we believe that has been fulfilled. Bob
’ll tryHello again Don, I'm confused about the comment that you just made (about the CCC). I believe that it was commissioned and published under the direction of JP II (if memory serves), so it is certainly an official publication of the RCC. I have Catholic family members, friends and acquaintances, and they quote or point me to the Catechism regularly to make points about the RC faith when we are discussing it (well, my Catholic family members/friends who are serious about RC theology do anyway).
Are you saying that it is wrong for them to do so, that what the CCC teaches is actually false teaching/NOT what the RCC actually teaches? The CCC is not an original document, of course, but a concise summary of many the RCC's official dogmas, doctrines and/or other official church teachings (which are all nicely referenced for us in the CCC), so do you consider all of the RC official source documents that were used to create it false teachings as well?
Again, I am quite confused and would appreciate a bit of clarification from you. I hope that you do not mind me asking you these two questions (if you do, for whatever reason, then please don't answer them), 1. are you are a Roman Catholic in good standing with the church at this time, yes/no?, and 2. if your answer is "no", what church are you a member of?
Thanks
--David
What I say here is “not” a decree cos I have no real authority in these matters, I’m not an apostle, but I am entitled to reasonable doubt.
Starting in the 19th century the church began to be attack by modernism, (basically liberalism anything can mean what ever you want, no objective truth revealed by God) and is in full blown apostasy with the second Vatican council which rejected the faith and enshrined the principles of freemasonry, imposter popes with imposter council and teaching starting with the death of pius 12 in 1958 so anything from the Vatican is suspect including the CCC, again only my doubt and not a doctrinal decree.
Our lady at Lasallette in 1800 said: “Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the anti-Christ!
There were 15 documents summarizing the faith revealed by Christ that were prepared for the council, they were rejected in favor of the principles of freemasonry especially religious liberty and religious indifference.
Then I ain’t “Christ alone”?
Is this mental illness or do you not know what alone means?
Alone, sole, sola nothing added!
Christ alone?
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Romans 4:24
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Not Christ alone must also believe on the Father who sent Christ!
Thanks
“We (Freemasons) have struggled for a century and a half to bring our doctrins (religious Liberty, and religious indifference)to prevail within the Church and had not succeeded.
“Finally, there came Vatican II and we triumphed”!!!
Yves Marsaudon, 33rd degree Scottish Rite Freemason:
He continues;
“The sense of universalism that is rampant in Rome these days is very close to our purpose for existence... with all our hearts we support the revolution of John 23”
In the book Resurgence du Temple, published and edited by the Knights Templar (Freemasons), 1975:149, the following quote is of interest:
“The direction of our action: Continuation of the Work of John XXIII and all those who have followed him on the way to Templar Universalism.”
Longstanding enemies of the Church, the Freemasons, were delighted at what they saw as an adoption of their thinking. Representative of Freemasons' thoughts, Yves Marsaudon of the Scottish Rite praised the ecumenism ushered in at Vatican II. He said "Catholics . . . must not forget that all roads lead to God. And they will have to accept that this courageous idea of freethinking, which we can really call a revolution, pouring forth from our Masonic lodges, has spread magnificently over the dome of St. Peter's". And, "One can say that ecumenism is the legitimate son of Freemasonry". Freemason Jacques Mitterand approved, and wrote: "Something has changed within the Church, and replies given by the Pope to the most urgent questions such as priestly celibacy and birth control, are hotly debated within the Church itself; the word of the Sovereign Pontiff is questioned by bishops, by the faithful, by priests. For a Freemason, a man who questions dogma is already a Freemason without an apron''.
“Catholics ... must not forget that all roads lead to God. And they will have to accept that this courageous idea of freethinking, which we can really call a revolution, pouring forth from our Masonic lodges, has spread magnificently over the dome of St. Peter’s.”30
Yves Marsaudon said further, “One can say that ecumenism is the legitimate son of Freemasonry” 31
The post-Vatican II spirit of doubt and revolution obviously warmed the heart of French Freemason Jacques Mitterrand, who wrote approvingly:
“Something has changed within the Church, and replies given by the Pope to the most urgent questions such as priestly celibacy and birth control, are hotly debated within the Church itself; the word of the Sovereign Pontiff is questioned by bishops, by priests, by the faithful. For a Freemason, a man who questions dogma is already a Freemason without an apron.”32
“Roncalli Will Canonize Ecumenism”
Marcel Prelot, a senator for the Doubs region in France, is probably the most accurate in describing what has really taken place. He writes:
“We had struggled for a century and a half to bring our opinions to prevail with the Church and had not succeeded. Finally, there came Vatican II and we triumphed. From then on the propositions and principles of liberal Catholicism have been definitively and officially accepted by Holy Church.”33
Those “conservatives” who deny that Vatican II constitutes a break with tradition, and that it contradicts previous magisterium have failed to listen to the very movers and shakers of the Council who shamelessly acknowledge it.
Yves Congar, one of the artisans of the reform remarked with quiet satisfaction that “The Church has had, peacefully, its October revolution.”34
Congar also admitted, as if its something to be proud of, that Vatican II’s Declaration on Religious Liberty is contrary to the Syllabus of Pope Pius IX. He said:
“It cannot be denied that the affirmation of religious liberty by Vatican II says materially something other than what the Syllabus of 1864 said, and even just about the opposite of propositions 16, 17 and 19 of this document.”35
Lastly, a few years ago, Cardinal Ratzinger, apparently unruffled by the admission, wrote that he sees the Vatican II text Gaudium et Spes as a “counter-Syllabus”. He said:
“If it is desirable to offer a diagnosis of the text (Guadium et Spes) as a whole, we might say that (in conjunction with the texts on religious liberty, and world religions,) it is a revision of the Syllabus of Pius IX, a kind of counter-syllabus ... Let us be content to say here that the text serves as a counter-syllabus and, as such, represent on the part of the Church, an attempt at an official reconciliation with the new era inaugurated in 1789".36
In other words, the French Revolution and the Enlightenment.
This comment by Cardinal Ratzinger is disturbing, especially since it came from the man who, as the head of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, is supposedly in charge of guarding the purity of Catholic doctrine.
Yet we can also cite a similar statement by the progressivist Cardinal Suenens, one of the most liberal prelates of this century, himself a Council father, spoke glowing of the old regimes that have come crashing down. The words he used in praise of the Council are the most telling, the most chilling and the most damning. Suenens declared “Vatican II is the French Revolution of the Church.”37
Blavatsky, the Russian founder of modern Theosophism.
Blavatsky, like Wojtyla, taught that the religions are very similar to one another, all coming from the same first source.
Freemason error: all religions lead to God!
John 23 said the 3rd secret did not apply to his pontificate, so he cannot be pope. Is our Lady said the secret must be revealed in 1960 when he was supposed pope!
John 23 claimed to be anti-pope when he said what is you’re pontificate going to do, and he answered what ever Pius XII (true pope) would do, I will do the opposite!
“An invalid pope will ascend the steps of St. Peter’s”
St. Francis
“Satan will set up a counter-church”
Bishop Sheen
Thanks
Hope this helps
“Finally, there came Vatican II and we triumphed”!!!
Yves Marsaudon, 33rd degree Scottish Rite Freemason:
He continues;
“The sense of universalism that is rampant in Rome these days is very close to our purpose for existence... with all our hearts we support the revolution of John 23”
In the book Resurgence du Temple, published and edited by the Knights Templar (Freemasons), 1975:149, the following quote is of interest:
“The direction of our action: Continuation of the Work of John XXIII and all those who have followed him on the way to Templar Universalism.”
Longstanding enemies of the Church, the Freemasons, were delighted at what they saw as an adoption of their thinking. Representative of Freemasons' thoughts, Yves Marsaudon of the Scottish Rite praised the ecumenism ushered in at Vatican II. He said "Catholics . . . must not forget that all roads lead to God. And they will have to accept that this courageous idea of freethinking, which we can really call a revolution, pouring forth from our Masonic lodges, has spread magnificently over the dome of St. Peter's". And, "One can say that ecumenism is the legitimate son of Freemasonry". Freemason Jacques Mitterand approved, and wrote: "Something has changed within the Church, and replies given by the Pope to the most urgent questions such as priestly celibacy and birth control, are hotly debated within the Church itself; the word of the Sovereign Pontiff is questioned by bishops, by the faithful, by priests. For a Freemason, a man who questions dogma is already a Freemason without an apron''.
“Catholics ... must not forget that all roads lead to God. And they will have to accept that this courageous idea of freethinking, which we can really call a revolution, pouring forth from our Masonic lodges, has spread magnificently over the dome of St. Peter’s.”30
Yves Marsaudon said further, “One can say that ecumenism is the legitimate son of Freemasonry” 31
The post-Vatican II spirit of doubt and revolution obviously warmed the heart of French Freemason Jacques Mitterrand, who wrote approvingly:
“Something has changed within the Church, and replies given by the Pope to the most urgent questions such as priestly celibacy and birth control, are hotly debated within the Church itself; the word of the Sovereign Pontiff is questioned by bishops, by priests, by the faithful. For a Freemason, a man who questions dogma is already a Freemason without an apron.”32
“Roncalli Will Canonize Ecumenism”
Marcel Prelot, a senator for the Doubs region in France, is probably the most accurate in describing what has really taken place. He writes:
“We had struggled for a century and a half to bring our opinions to prevail with the Church and had not succeeded. Finally, there came Vatican II and we triumphed. From then on the propositions and principles of liberal Catholicism have been definitively and officially accepted by Holy Church.”33
Those “conservatives” who deny that Vatican II constitutes a break with tradition, and that it contradicts previous magisterium have failed to listen to the very movers and shakers of the Council who shamelessly acknowledge it.
Yves Congar, one of the artisans of the reform remarked with quiet satisfaction that “The Church has had, peacefully, its October revolution.”34
Congar also admitted, as if its something to be proud of, that Vatican II’s Declaration on Religious Liberty is contrary to the Syllabus of Pope Pius IX. He said:
“It cannot be denied that the affirmation of religious liberty by Vatican II says materially something other than what the Syllabus of 1864 said, and even just about the opposite of propositions 16, 17 and 19 of this document.”35
Lastly, a few years ago, Cardinal Ratzinger, apparently unruffled by the admission, wrote that he sees the Vatican II text Gaudium et Spes as a “counter-Syllabus”. He said:
“If it is desirable to offer a diagnosis of the text (Guadium et Spes) as a whole, we might say that (in conjunction with the texts on religious liberty, and world religions,) it is a revision of the Syllabus of Pius IX, a kind of counter-syllabus ... Let us be content to say here that the text serves as a counter-syllabus and, as such, represent on the part of the Church, an attempt at an official reconciliation with the new era inaugurated in 1789".36
In other words, the French Revolution and the Enlightenment.
This comment by Cardinal Ratzinger is disturbing, especially since it came from the man who, as the head of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, is supposedly in charge of guarding the purity of Catholic doctrine.
Yet we can also cite a similar statement by the progressivist Cardinal Suenens, one of the most liberal prelates of this century, himself a Council father, spoke glowing of the old regimes that have come crashing down. The words he used in praise of the Council are the most telling, the most chilling and the most damning. Suenens declared “Vatican II is the French Revolution of the Church.”37
Blavatsky, the Russian founder of modern Theosophism.
Blavatsky, like Wojtyla, taught that the religions are very similar to one another, all coming from the same first source.
Freemason error: all religions lead to God!
John 23 said the 3rd secret did not apply to his pontificate, so he cannot be pope. Is our Lady said the secret must be revealed in 1960 when he was supposed pope!
John 23 claimed to be anti-pope when he said what is you’re pontificate going to do, and he answered what ever Pius XII (true pope) would do, I will do the opposite!
“An invalid pope will ascend the steps of St. Peter’s”
St. Francis
“Satan will set up a counter-church”
Bishop Sheen
Thanks
Hope this helps
I as referring to apostolic succession"The Apostles continue to the end." WhatThey are among the living, of course, but they are living in Heaven with the Lord at this time, not here on Earth, so the idea that they are continuing the Great Commission themselves (if that's what you're actually saying) is not possible
Nevertheless, the Lord Jesus' "Great Commission" continues to be carried out in this world w/o them PTL, by His saints (by all true disciples/believers, that is) thanks to the indwelling and ongoing ministry of the Holy Spirit in all of our lives. As the Apostle Peter also made clear to all of us who have, by grace through faith, become His adoptive children,
1 Peter 29 You are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may ~proclaim~ the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.
--David
p.s. - the Great Commission was first given to the 11 + 1, but it was hardly given to them alone to carry out. We know that St. Thomas Aquinas certainly understood this (from what he wrote, see the example below) as did MANY, MANY others, of course, including the RCC itself (as we have recently seen).
"To teach in order to lead others to faith is the task
of every preacher AND of each believer"
St. Thomas Aquinas
The line of apostles must continue till Christ returns
Only Peter and the apostles have jurisdictional authority
Without apostolic succession who are the 12 in acts 2:14?
Judas is dead, Paul ain’t included till much later
Thanks
Wow! Denying Christ and scripture?
Jn 20:21
As the father sent me, so I send you
Same mission power and authority
John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well until Christ returns in glory!
apostle means one who is sent!
Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!
The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!
Scripture ain’t good enough?
Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
So what you're saying is that we cannot know if we are saved right now, this moment?
You continue to post as if redemption and salvation are different.
Jesus died to redeem everyone that wants to take advantage of it.
John 3:16
IF we take advantage of this, we are saved right now.
You make a little bit of confusion here...so I would have liked a Catholic source that explains what YOU seem to believe...
That a person could be redeemed but not saved.
It's that I've never heard of this concept of yours.
Read Acts 1. Actually, here you go.
Acts 1
15 Peter stood up in the midst of the brethren (a gathering of about one hundred and twenty persons was there together), and said,
16 “Brethren, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.
17 “For he was counted among us and received his share in this ministry.”
18 (Now this man acquired a field with the price of his wickedness, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his intestines gushed out.
19 And it became known to all who were living in Jerusalem; so that in their own language that field was called Hakeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
20 “For it is written in the book of Psalms,
‘LET HIS HOMESTEAD BE MADE DESOLATE,
AND LET NO ONE DWELL IN IT’;
and,
‘LET ANOTHER MAN TAKE HIS OFFICE.’
21 “Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us—
22 beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”
23 So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.
24 And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen
25 to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.”
26 And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles.
--David
Yes
Redemption
Justification
Sanctification
Salvation
Are four distinct parts of the plan salvation!
Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism.
Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death.
At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or
Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation!
Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)
Yes
Redemption
Justification
Sanctification
Salvation
Are four distinct parts of the plan salvation!
Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29
Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21
Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29
At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or
Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13
Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)
rom 5:8
Mk 13:13
Matt 24:13
Dogma
94. Christ offered Himself on the Cross as a true and proper sacrifice.
95. Christ by His Sacrifice on the Cross has ransomed us and reconciled us with God.
96. Christ did not die for the predestined only.
97. Christ’s Atonement does not extend to the fallen angels.
98. Christ, through His Passion and Death, merited reward from God.
99. After His Death, Christ’s soul, which was separated from His Body, descended into the
underworld.
100. On the third day after His Death Christ rose gloriously from the dead.
101. Christ ascended Body and Soul into Heaven.
Thanks
Hello Don, your not knowing about Mathias in the previous Chapter of Acts didn't make sense to me from the get-go, so I'm back trying to figure out what you were actually trying to convey, and this is where my mind has been wandering since then ;)
Is it your belief that the 11, in their choosing of the godly/faithful Mathias (who, just like the 11, knew the Lord Jesus personally and walked with Him during His ministry years on Earth) to fill the vacated position of the unfaithful traitor, Judas, somehow establishes the basis for (and the Biblical proof of) the RCC's doctrine of apostolic succession?
Considering the extent of all that is said in those verses and passages (in both Acts 1, as well as in the prophetic words from Psalms 69:25 and 109:8) such a conclusion can hardly be reached and justified.
So, perhaps I am still on the wrong track here. If not (and the above is actually what you mean), then please tell me/us what I am missing and/or where the Bible teaches us that, "the line of apostles must continue till Christ returns because only Peter and the apostles have jurisdictional authority".
Thanks
--David
Real faith or saving faith in Jesus is from the Father. His Spirit bear's witness. Those who listen and learn from the Father go to Jesus. He enables. Nobody comes to Christ by such faith unless enabled by the Father via His Spirit.
That Faith put into action through prayer.
Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.” a 6But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” b (that is, to bring Christ down) 7“or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’ ” c (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” d that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” e 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” f
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, "he" gave the right to become children of God
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Agreed on all.
Yes you right
But they reject apostolic succession?
Jethro Bodine
Member
All of these happen the moment you believe the gospel.