Faith precedes regeneration

[FreeGrace]

The argument is which precedes which: faith or regeneration.

There are no verses that directly say which occurs first. So we must rightly divide the Word of Truth in order to determine which occurs first. All are NASB

Eph 1:13-14
13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

First, we notice here that 'having believed', we 'were sealed with the Spirit of promise'. Who was given as a pledge or promise with a view to the redemption of God's own possession.

Eph 2:5
even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

Here we note that Paul equates being "made alive" with "being saved". That's what the parenthesis does; define what being made alive means. And we know that being made alive refers to regeneration.

Eph 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God

Here we see clearly that one is saved (regenerated) through faith.

1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Here we see a contrast: all humans, who are "in Adam" will die. Also, all who are "in Christ" will be 'made alive'.

We know from Eph 1:13 that it is only those who have believed who are "in Christ". So one must believe in order to be "in Christ". And 1 Cor 15:22 says that all who are 'in Christ' will be (future to being in Christ) be made alive (regenerated).

However, we also know from the Greek grammar of 1 John 5:1 that believing and regeneration occur at the same time.

1 Jn 5:1
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.

First, "whoever believes" is a present participle; the believing ones. "is born of God" is a perfect passive. The Greek grammar rule is that present participles occur at the same time as the action of the main verb, which in this case, is perfect passive of "born of God".

The point of John here is simply that those who are currently believing have been regenerated.

It does not say that one is born of God before they believe. As the previous verses all show.

So, from Greek grammar, believing and regeneration occur at the same time.

For those who would disagree, please demonstrate how the verses I've used don't support what I have said, or provide verses that actually say that regeneration occurs before believing.

 

[Gregg]

The argument is which precedes which: faith or regeneration.

There are no verses that directly say which occurs first. So we must rightly divide the Word of Truth in order to determine which occurs first. All are NASB

Eph 1:13-14
13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

First, we notice here that 'having believed', we 'were sealed with the Spirit of promise'. Who was given as a pledge or promise with a view to the redemption of God's own possession.

Eph 2:5
even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

Here we note that Paul equates being "made alive" with "being saved". That's what the parenthesis does; define what being made alive means. And we know that being made alive refers to regeneration.

Eph 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God

Here we see clearly that one is saved (regenerated) through faith.

1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Here we see a contrast: all humans, who are "in Adam" will die. Also, all who are "in Christ" will be 'made alive'.

We know from Eph 1:13 that it is only those who have believed who are "in Christ". So one must believe in order to be "in Christ". And 1 Cor 15:22 says that all who are 'in Christ' will be (future to being in Christ) be made alive (regenerated).

However, we also know from the Greek grammar of 1 John 5:1 that believing and regeneration occur at the same time.

1 Jn 5:1
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.

First, "whoever believes" is a present participle; the believing ones. "is born of God" is a perfect passive. The Greek grammar rule is that present participles occur at the same time as the action of the main verb, which in this case, is perfect passive of "born of God".

The point of John here is simply that those who are currently believing have been regenerated.

It does not say that one is born of God before they believe. As the previous verses all show.

So, from Greek grammar, believing and regeneration occur at the same time.

For those who would disagree, please demonstrate how the verses I've used don't support what I have said, or provide verses that actually say that regeneration occurs before believing.

FreeGrace,
I appreciate you beginning this thread; and agree that regeneration occurs at the moment of being born from above.

Are you speaking of παλιγγενεσία and/or άνακαίνωσις?

 

[Malachi]

There are no verses that directly say which occurs first.

I would suggest that there are two passages in the NT which demonstrate that faith precedes regeneration (Jn 1:12,13 and Rom 10:9,10):
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name [faith]:
13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
It is very clear that those who receive Christ and believe on His name (faith) are born of God.
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart [faith] that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth [faith] unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
The New Birth, imputed righteousness, and salvation are all together and all are simultaneous (Tit 3:4-7).

 

[FreeGrace]

FreeGrace,
I appreciate you beginning this thread; and agree that regeneration occurs at the moment of being born from above.

You're very welcome.

Are you speaking of παλιγγενεσία and/or άνακαίνωσις?

I don't know Greek, so I use lexicons. If you provide the verses where these words occur, I'll look them up.

 

[Gregg]

You're very welcome.


I don't know Greek, so I use lexicons. If you provide the verses where these words occur, I'll look them up.

I was searching for a verse that directly relates the new birth and regeneration, where either word refers or references the other in the Gk text.

παλιγγενεσία - Strong's G3824
άνακαίνωσις - Strong's G342

Thanks,

 

[FreeGrace]

I was searching for a verse that directly relates the new birth and regeneration, where either word refers or references the other in the Gk text.

παλιγγενεσία - Strong's G3824
άνακαίνωσις - Strong's G342

Thanks,

My understanding is that the terms "new birth", "made alive", "born again" and "regeneration" all refer to the same thing.

I'm not able to check out the 2 Greek words you've provided. I need a verse so I can find it in my interlinear and then search a lexicon.

Thanks.

 

[Gary]

The argument is which precedes which: faith or regeneration.

Faith would have to come first, otherwise what's the point of having faith if one can be saved without it.
.

 

[FreeGrace]

Faith would have to come first, otherwise what's the point of having faith if one can be saved without it.

Correct. While they occur at the same time, God regenerates the believer.

The reformed tradition thinks that God regenerates those He has 'elected' to save so that they will believe.

 

[Malachi]

My understanding is that the terms "new birth", "made alive", "born again" and "regeneration" all refer to the same thing.

That's correct. You could also include "born of the Spirit", "born of God", "born from above", "begotten with the Word of Truth" (Jas 1:18).

Salvation is much more than the "new birth" (Tit 3:4-7). Salvation is multi-faceted, but God does not regenerate in order to regenerate. That is absurd, but that is what Calvinists teach.

 

[FreeGrace]

That's correct. You could also include "born of the Spirit", "born of God", "born from above", "begotten with the Word of Truth" (Jas 1:18).

Thanks for the reminder.

Salvation is much more than the "new birth" (Tit 3:4-7). Salvation is multi-faceted, but God does not regenerate in order to regenerate. That is absurd, but that is what Calvinists teach.

 

[chessman]

I was searching for a verse that directly relates the new birth and regeneration, where either word refers or references the other in the Gk text.

παλιγγενεσία - Strong's G3824
άνακαίνωσις - Strong's G342

Thanks,

Titus 3:4-7 (LEB) But when the kindness and love for mankind of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not by deeds of righteousness that we have done, but because of his mercy, through the washing of regeneration (παλιγγενεσία) and renewal (ἀνακαίνωσις) by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we may become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Gregg]

The argument is which precedes which: faith or regeneration.

There are no verses that directly say which occurs first. So we must rightly divide the Word of Truth in order to determine which occurs first. All are NASB

Eph 1:13-14
13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

First, we notice here that 'having believed', we 'were sealed with the Spirit of promise'. Who was given as a pledge or promise with a view to the redemption of God's own possession.

Eph 2:5
even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

Here we note that Paul equates being "made alive" with "being saved". That's what the parenthesis does; define what being made alive means. And we know that being made alive refers to regeneration.

Eph 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God

Here we see clearly that one is saved (regenerated) through faith.

1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Here we see a contrast: all humans, who are "in Adam" will die. Also, all who are "in Christ" will be 'made alive'.

We know from Eph 1:13 that it is only those who have believed who are "in Christ". So one must believe in order to be "in Christ". And 1 Cor 15:22 says that all who are 'in Christ' will be (future to being in Christ) be made alive (regenerated).

However, we also know from the Greek grammar of 1 John 5:1 that believing and regeneration occur at the same time.

1 Jn 5:1
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.

First, "whoever believes" is a present participle; the believing ones. "is born of God" is a perfect passive. The Greek grammar rule is that present participles occur at the same time as the action of the main verb, which in this case, is perfect passive of "born of God".

The point of John here is simply that those who are currently believing have been regenerated.

It does not say that one is born of God before they believe. As the previous verses all show.

So, from Greek grammar, believing and regeneration occur at the same time.

For those who would disagree, please demonstrate how the verses I've used don't support what I have said, or provide verses that actually say that regeneration occurs before believing.

Titus 3:4-7 (LEB) But when the kindness and love for mankind of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not by deeds of righteousness that we have done, but because of his mercy, through the washing of regeneration (παλιγγενεσία) and renewal (ἀνακαίνωσις) by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we may become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

I stated in a previous post [#2] that I agree that regeneration occurs at the moment one is born from above; but now I am wondering if both salvation and regeneration occur at the instance faith is conceived, that is I am wondering if all 3 occur simultaneously.

 

[Deborah13]

My understanding is that the terms "new birth", "made alive", "born again" and "regeneration" all refer to the same thing.

I'm not able to check out the 2 Greek words you've provided. I need a verse so I can find it in my interlinear and then search a lexicon.

Thanks.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Tit&c=3&t=KJV&ss=1
Click on the Strong's number, it will give you every verse where that word is used.

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/8064.htm
Bible Hub is better. Pull up the verse you know in the interliner, click on the Strong's #. It gives you a list of all the forms of that word and the verses it is found in.

 

[chessman]

(Edited, Failure to follow A&T Guidelines: "Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding." Obadiah)

 

[Butch5]

I stated in a previous post [#2] that I agree that regeneration occurs at the moment one is born from above; but now I am wondering if both salvation and regeneration occur at the instance faith is conceived, that is I am wondering if all 3 occur simultaneously.

The passage that Chessman quoted tells us when regeneration (figuratively) takes place. The washing of regeneration is baptism. Literally, it's the bath of regeneration.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, {love: or, pity}
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
(Tit 3:4-5 KJV)

 

[Gregg]

(Post removed, ToS 2.14: "If a member disagrees with a Moderator's action, they are not to take their dispute public." Obadiah)

.

 

[FreeGrace]

I stated in a previous post [#2] that I agree that regeneration occurs at the moment one is born from above; but now I am wondering if both salvation and regeneration occur at the instance faith is conceived, that is I am wondering if all 3 occur simultaneously.

I would agree with this.

 

[JCitoL]

it is hard to be said, because let's remember how the Lord, Jesus, healed many sick before they believed, for the purpose of the faith is all human/ensouled beings, or at least as many as possible, to be saved unto/provided with abundant and everlasting life in the true Lord God till the end of the eternity

Blessings