Faith without works........is Faith.

[JLB]

I've noticed several people attempt to correct you on the idea of salvation. So, at this stage, it isn't so much that people here are trying to reveal the truth to you. It's really us trying to get you to see the truth for yourself. I believe you're in great denial. Perhaps its because you want heaven to be an exclusive club, or that you feel something is missing because the Grace of God is so simple. I'm not sure. Whatever your reasons are, none of us can really convince you before God opens your heart. My recommendation to you is to pray for God to open your heart. Once you do that, God will allow you to see what all of us are saying.

Or it could be that faith, without the action or work of obedience is dead.

Faith all by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

The works that James speaks of is obedience.

Why you seem to keep trying to misrepresent me as saying, is "you must earn your salvation by good works".

As I have said, the work that James teaches is obedience.

A person must obey the Gospel.

Believe carries the idea of commit and obey.

That is why James makes this clear statement as an example;

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! James 2:19

Does this verse teach us that demons believe in God?

Yes or No.

Do demons serve Satan or Jesus?

That is why the holy commandment of the Gospel is repent.

Repentance toward God and away from Satan.

38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

And again

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, Acts 3:19

And again

21 testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 20:21

Finally this one is for you -

20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
Acts 26:20


Faith that does not obey the command to repent, does not obey the Gospel.


JLB

 

[Qchan]

Or it could be that faith, without the action or work of obedience is dead.

Faith all by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

The works that James speaks of is obedience.

Why you seem to keep trying to misrepresent me as saying, is "you must earn your salvation by good works".

As I have said, the work that James teaches is obedience.

A person must obey the Gospel.

Believe carries the idea of commit and obey.

That is why James makes this clear statement as an example;

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! James 2:19

Does this verse teach us that demons believe in God?

Yes or No.

Do demons serve Satan or Jesus?

That is why the holy commandment of the Gospel is repent.

Repentance toward God and away from Satan.

38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

And again

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, Acts 3:19

And again

21 testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 20:21

Finally this one is for you -

20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
Acts 26:20


Faith that does not obey the command to repent, does not obey the Gospel.


JLB

There's no way I can convince you. So, I'll tell you what. Why don't you ask God for console? What I mean is, ask God if I'm wrong. If I am indeed wrong, God will tell you I am. If I'm not wrong, then he will reveal what's been lost to you. Just try it. It's worth a shot, isn't it?

 

[JLB]

There's no way I can convince you. So, I'll tell you what. Why don't you ask God for console? What I mean is, ask God if I'm wrong. If I am indeed wrong, God will tell you I am. If I'm not wrong, then he will reveal what's been lost to you. Just try it. It's worth a shot, isn't it?

If I say "God says" your wrong, then you will believe me?


But if I post 4 different scriptures that teach us that we are to repent... you just ignore those?


The holy commandment of the Gospel is repent.

Repentance toward God and away from Satan.

... repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

And again

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, Acts 3:19

And again

21 testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 20:21

Finally this one is for you -

20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
Acts 26:20


Faith that does not obey the command to repent, does not obey the Gospel.



JLB

 

[JLB]

There's no way I can convince you. So, I'll tell you what. Why don't you ask God for console? What I mean is, ask God if I'm wrong. If I am indeed wrong, God will tell you I am. If I'm not wrong, then he will reveal what's been lost to you. Just try it. It's worth a shot, isn't it?

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! James 2:19

Does this verse teach us that demons believe in God?

Yes or No.

Do demons serve Satan or Jesus?


How about answering these two questions from the Holy Spirit who inspired the scriptures?


JLB

 

[JLB]

I've noticed several people attempt to correct you on the idea of salvation.

OK.

Please show me the post's where several people have tried to correct me on the idea of salvation.

Thanks JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! James 2:19

Does this verse teach us that demons believe in God?

Yes or No.

Do demons serve Satan or Jesus?

According to the OP, since devils do have faith, even to the point of trembling because of their faith in God. Then they must be saved and OK in God's book.

Not on his way to kill the boy, but at the INSTANT he believed.

And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
(Gen 22:12)

God must have been real slow to catch on here. It took Abraham to the point of killing His son before God knew. If God would have just listened to Kidron, He could have had Abraham avoid going through all that hassle.

 

[JLB]

According to the OP, since devils do have faith, even to the point of trembling because of their faith in God. Then they must be saved and OK in God's book.



And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
(Gen 22:12)

God must have been real slow to catch on here. It took Abraham to the point of killing His son before God knew. If God would have just listened to Kidron, He could have had Abraham avoid going through all that hassle.

Exactly!



That's why James say Abraham was justified, when he offered Issac... then the scripture was fulfilled that said Abraham believed God.

The scripture wasn't fulfilled until this act of obedience.

Likewise many of us will be tested when it comes time to take the mark or not.

When you continue to confess Jesus as Lord, while you are being beheaded rather than take the mark or bow down and worship the image of the beast, then God will know we believe Him, as well.

Many lose their lives in foreign lands everyday for their faith in Jesus Christ.

Soon here in America.


JLB

 

[Qchan]

If I say "God says" your wrong, then you will believe me?


But if I post 4 different scriptures that teach us that we are to repent... you just ignore those?


The holy commandment of the Gospel is repent.

Repentance toward God and away from Satan.

... repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

And again

19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, Acts 3:19

And again

21 testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 20:21

Finally this one is for you -

20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
Acts 26:20


Faith that does not obey the command to repent, does not obey the Gospel.



JLB

Were you aware that the word "repent" in every scripture you quoted means "metanoeō" in the Greek? Metanoeo means to "change one's mind". Here, see for yourself:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Act&c=2&t=KJV#s=t_conc_1020038

In Acts 26:20, your verse is literally saying, "and do actions reflecting that of one who's changed their mind." God is not asking people to be sorry for what they've done. He's asking them to think differently. What you need to do, my friend, is think differently of the gospel.

Anyway, I pray constantly. God always speaks to my heart and the Holy Spirit always reveals things to me. A few hours after you and I spoke about going to God for answers, I was lead to a video of a person who thinks just like you.

According to this guy, you can lose your salvation and, therefore, salvation isn't eternal. Now, I don't want to keep anything hidden from you, but this man is a false prophet. He's false because he doesn't believe Jesus is God. He also doesn't believe in the virgin birth of Jesus Christ. Now, before you begin with, "Well, there are things we all can agree upon and things we can all disagree upon", you first must understand what his foundations to his beliefs are. He's Pentecostal. The same as I was. There are two types of Pentecostals. Those who believe in the Trinity and those who do not. My guess is he's with the group that does not believe in the Trinity. Now that you know what his foundations are, can you truly agree with him now?

Here's another video of yet another Pentecostal:

He never adheres to the typical attire of a Pentecostal minister. That's something I like about him. However, his message is much different than the false prophet above. He believes in the virgin birth of Jesus Christ and he believes in the Trinity. However, he says salvation is eternal.

So, now that you know the real definition of "repent" (which I'm sure changed the meaning to all of your "repentance" scriptures), and now you know where the "limited salvation" doctrine is rooted to, will you still continue to believe what you're preaching?

 

[Qchan]

According to the OP, since devils do have faith, even to the point of trembling because of their faith in God. Then they must be saved and OK in God's book.

Not exactly. Jesus said there is a requirement. John 3:5 says (NLT), "Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit." Being born of water means to be human. To be born of the spirit means they cannot enter the Kingdom in their sinful fleshly bodies.

 

[Kidron]

God must have been real slow to catch on here. It took Abraham to the point of killing His son before God knew. If God would have just listened to Kidron, He could have had Abraham avoid going through all that hassle.

[Antagonistic sarcasm. See ToS 2.4]

also..

When you decide to study......"Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for Righteousness", you will suddenly begin to understand that :

A.) the very instant Abraham "believed", he was accounted righteous, and not as he walked to the boy.

B.) that we are righteous instantly when we are born again, exactly the same as Abraham, and this righteousness is perfect and completed and does not increase as we do good deeds, as you would twist the scriptures to try to prove.

 

[Brother Mike]

Many lose their lives in foreign lands everyday for their faith in Jesus Christ.

Soon here in America.

Myth busting Myths and keeping real. That is what we do JLB.

[off topic. ToS 2.4]

A.) the second Abraham "believed", he was accounted righteous, and not as he walked to the boy.

You know what Abraham believed Kidron? He believed that after he killed Issac, somehow someway God would raise Isaac from the dead.
It's not faith, until what you believe is carried out.

Jesus said, according to your faith so it be done unto you.
And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord. Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.
(Mat 9:28-29)

What happens if blind man just stayed at home eating potato chips saying, "Ya, I believe Jesus healed me, chomp, chomp munch, much. Ah, someone I hear out side said Jesus was passing through, got to get some more chips. yep, I believe, going to sit right here and eat chips believing, chomp, chomp..."

I gave you the scripture. The moment Abraham was about to kill Issac, God said, NOW I KNOW. Not before.

A.) the second Abraham "believed", he was accounted righteous, and not as he walked to the boy.

B.) that we are righteous instantly, the same as Abraham, and this righteousness is perfect and completed and does not increase as we do good deeds, as you would twist the scriptures to try to prove.

Your wrong on both accounts. Abraham was "Counted" righteous because of Abraham's actions, God saying I know him. Giving right to send his own son the moment Abraham was going to sacrifice his, saying Now I know.

Also, I have no idea where you get this good deeds, you don't listen to what people are telling you.
Faith, with no corresponding action is dead. It counts for nothing.

 

[Kidron]

Myth busting Myths and keeping real. That is what we do JLB.

Now about that pre-trib Rapture you don't believe in..........

You know what Abraham believed Kidron? He believed that after he killed Issac, somehow someway God would raise Isaac from the dead.
It's not faith, until what you believe is carried out.

[ Respect others. ToS 2.4]

 

[Deborah13]

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! James 2:19

I agree that if someone has saving faith they will not be vain in saying that they have faith but never exercises that faith. Just as the body without the spirit is an empty vessel and is useless, it can do nothing.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
An empty vessel may make more noise than a full one, as a vain person may, but it is void of substance. The Pharisees made much of what they did in tithes but forgot the more important things of faith......they were vain, empty vessels making much noise.
1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

In Acts 26:20, your verse is literally saying, "and do actions reflecting that of one who's changed their mind."

I agree.

I gave you the scripture. The moment Abraham was about to kill Issac, God said, NOW I KNOW. Not before.

Are you saying that God didn't know what Abraham would do? If so, I do not agree.
I believe this was a statement of approval.
Rather like the husband who tells his wife he loves her and she knows that he does. Then one day he brings her flowers and says I love you and she responds I know you do, you brought me beautiful flowers.
The action shows what the truth is even if it is already known.

 

[MarkT]

[Antagonistic sarcasm. See ToS 2.4]

also..

When you decide to study......"Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for Righteousness", you will suddenly begin to understand that :

A.) the very instant Abraham "believed", he was accounted righteous, and not as he walked to the boy.

B.) that we are righteous instantly when we are born again, exactly the same as Abraham, and this righteousness is perfect and completed and does not increase as we do good deeds, as you would twist the scriptures to try to prove.

Faith is completed by works.

'Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works' James 2:21-22

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Faith without works is Faith.
This is because its not built on works., but its built on TRUST.
And trust, is faith.

See, the issue is "righteousness".
The issue, is, how can you become as righteous as God., as this is what He requires for you to be accepted into his family.
How do you get the Righteous from God that you need, so that you end up in heaven after you die?
Now ask yourself...
Before you were saved, or regarding any religion......you go about doing good, giving to the poor, loving the hurting, trying to live a good life, maybe even got W-baptized or took Communion for half your life.
Thats all "works".
Now, did any of that save you?
I'll ask you again.......BEFORE YOU WERE SAVED.........if you went around doing good, giving the poor, loving the hurting, trying to live a good life....(Wbaptism, Communion)..> did any of that ......do any of those WORKS save you?
Then how is it, that some falsely believe and teach that those exact same works that COULD NOT save you before you met Jesus and trusted him as Savior.......How is it that you now think that those very same works that didnt save you before you met Christ are going to keep you saved if you do them, or cause you to lose your salvation if you dont do them?

Here is how Paul explains it., and he explains it perfectly as he is the only Apostle who says that Jesus came to him an taught him the revelation of the "Grace of God".
No other apostle says this, including James, so, dont run there to argue with Paul about "works".
Thats a FAIL every time you do it.
So dont do it.

Here is Paul:

"Faith is >counted< as RIGHTEOUSNESS"""............(not works, = never works.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New International Version
However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

New Living Translation
But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners.

English Standard Version
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

New American Standard Bible
But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

King James Bible
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.

International Standard Version
However, to someone who does not work, but simply believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

NET Bible
But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But to the one who does not labor, but believes only in The One who justifies sinners, is his faith accounted for righteousness.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
However, when people don't work but believe God, the one who approves ungodly people, their faith is regarded as God's approval.

Jubilee Bible 2000
But to him that does not work, but believes in him that justifies the ungodly, the faith is counted as righteousness.

King James 2000 Bible
But to him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

American King James Version
But to him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

American Standard Version
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But to him that worketh not, yet believeth in him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reputed to justice, according to the purpose of the grace of God.

Darby Bible Translation
but to him who does not work, but believes on him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.

English Revised Version
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.

Webster's Bible Translation
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Weymouth New Testament
whereas in the case of a man who pleads no actions of his own, but simply believes in Him who declares the ungodly free from guilt, his faith is placed to his credit as righteousness.

World English Bible
But to him who doesn't work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.

Young's Literal Translation
and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned -- to righteousness:

How about Faith with out works is dead..........Try to think here and think about the entire word of God.
Without out Love faith is useless...........with out forgiveness............faith is useless........there are so many commandments that need to be as walking out in order for your faith to work and bring you the correct results.

I can not say I have faith in God and then not tithe or give an offering to the church. I can not say I have faith and walk away and not give others things they need that I have. Faith requires doing not just believing....Works here is the doing one must do in order to make their faith genuine..

Some one might say, I have faith God has healed me of this cold.........Man this cold is going to be the death of me yet.......That is dead and useless faith. You can not stand on Gods word and speak the devils words or anything opposed to the written word of God. WORKS knowing and doing His written word.

Faith is an action word meaning there must always be some kind of action following your faith.
Blessings

 

[JLB]

God is not asking people to be sorry for what they've done. He's asking them to think differently. What you need to do, my friend, is think differently of the gospel.

I have never said repent means "sorry for your sins".

Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.... Means turn toward God.

If a person is commanded to turn toward God, then they are in a position of being turned away from God.

Turned away from God, means they are turned toward Satan and are serving Satan, the king of the kingdom of darkness.

The Gospel is the call to turn away from Satan and his kingdom, and turn to God ,and the kingdom of God, and to no longer be slaves to the dominion of darkness.

That is why it's called repentance TOWARDS God.

21 testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 20:21


26 But now as the prophets foretold and as the eternal God has commanded, this message is made known to all Gentiles everywhere, so that they too might believe and obey Him. Romans 16:26 NLT

that they too might believe and obey Him.

JLB

 

[JLB]

How about Faith with out works is dead..........Try to think here and think about the entire word of God.
Without out Love faith is useless...........with out forgiveness............faith is useless........there are so many commandments that need to be as walking out in order for your faith to work and bring you the correct results.

I can not say I have faith in God and then not tithe or give an offering to the church. I can not say I have faith and walk away and not give others things they need that I have. Faith requires doing not just believing....Works here is the doing one must do in order to make their faith genuine..

Some one might say, I have faith God has healed me of this cold.........Man this cold is going to be the death of me yet.......That is dead and useless faith. You can not stand on Gods word and speak the devils words or anything opposed to the written word of God. WORKS knowing and doing His written word.

Faith is an action word meaning there must always be some kind of action following your faith.
Blessings

Great post!


JLB

 

[Qchan]

I have never said repent means "sorry for your sins".

Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.... Means turn toward God.

If a person is commanded to turn toward God, then they are in a position of being turned away from God.

Turned away from God, means they are turned toward Satan and are serving Satan, the king of the kingdom of darkness.

The Gospel is the call to turn away from Satan and his kingdom, and turn to God ,and the kingdom of God, and to no longer be slaves to the dominion of darkness.

That is why it's called repentance TOWARDS God.

21 testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 20:21


26 But now as the prophets foretold and as the eternal God has commanded, this message is made known to all Gentiles everywhere, so that they too might believe and obey Him. Romans 16:26 NLT

that they too might believe and obey Him.

JLB

Alright. At least we can agree on something

 

[JLB]

Are you saying that God didn't know what Abraham would do? If so, I do not agree.
I believe this was a statement of approval.

That is why it is called the genuineness of your faith... That it may be found to the praise and glory of God.

that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 1 Peter 1:7

 

[JLB]

Alright. At least we can agree on something

Amen!