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Faith without works........is Faith.

Chopper said:
Wow! I don't know what all the fuss is about. You are absolutely right when you say that works are not necessary for Salvation. Works are the result of Salvation. The righteousness that we receive from Christ Jesus shows up in righteous works, all inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is, FAITH in Jesus as Lord and Savior for the forgiveness of sins. Water Baptism as the first WORK of obedience. Faith in the Christ of God then leads us to follow God's will for our new life which leads to WORKS of righteousness....Quite simple really.
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Exactly.
 
Kidron said:
Exactly.
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I like your thinking. I think this is the first posting that I've seen from you as you are a relatively new member. I will be looking forward to your threads and posts. I welcome you into the realm of real Scriptural thinking as you seem Holy Spirit led.
 
Chopper said:
I like your thinking. I think this is the first posting that I've seen from you as you are a relatively new member. I will be looking forward to your threads and posts. I welcome you into the realm of real Scriptural thinking as you seem Holy Spirit led.
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Well, like you, im grounded in Grace., and its the only place i want to be.

God bless
<><K
 
Deborah13 said:
Because of His rod. I don't much like being chastised. Even so I am grateful He will do that.
When you were a kid did you fear your dad's disapproval and punishment. I don't believe OSAS but it wouldn't matter if I did. imo, that type of fear is respect, honor, and reverence, knowing what He could and will do to straighten us out so that we "fulfill His good purpose."
So I don't believe that verse supports that one can lose their salvation.
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Yeah, you're right, it might not, but it suggests it and so then we'd be back to the respect and honor like you say. Considering His rod (power), I would think that we would not be so quick to dismiss this as some have done. I would also think that if there's going to be an error that one would preference erring on the side of caution instead of clinging to a Sunday School fable of osas? But...that's humans for you.
 
Qchan said:
But you don't believe in universal atonement. Very interesting.
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If you mean by "universal atonement" that God has created the redemption for the world, by sending his Son to die for its sins, and we are the arrows who find the lost and show them the way to ACCESS atonement........if that is what you mean, then that is what i am.
But if by UA, you mean that everyone is saved automatically if they are breathing, then no, that is not what i am.
 
Qchan said:
So... A man is justified by faith and not of works. Yet, a man can lose justification because of works? You don't see a problem with that?
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A man can lose justification because of works?
Qchan said:
Ah, OK. Well, I agree that good works naturally springs forth due to faith. I'm a major proponent of that. However, JLB is not.
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That's funny!

First you misquote the scriptures, now you are misquoting me.

JLB
 
Qchan said:
Check it out here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlimited_atonement
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Very good Ochan. I am a five point Calvinist. Having said that, I go beyond Calvinism to include a "General Call of the Gospel" which includes the "Unlimited Atonement" which allows anyone to come to Salvation thru faith in Jesus Christ. A good many folk here at CF.net know of my theology.

Limited Atonement is applied to the elect which leaves out the Pharaoh's, or those of whom God has predestined to have hard hearts in order to display God's mighty works. So we have two groups in limited atonement. The elect are chosen before the foundation of the world to be saved. the atonement does not cover those of whom God hardens the hearts of those of whom God will use to further His plan for His children. These are the only ones God has chosen not to be saved.

The confusion comes when Calvin says that only the elect will be saved and all others cannot be saved. Calvin is wrong! The General Call of the Gospel fulfills Jesus' intention that He wills that "all will be saved." John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
 
Deborah13 said:
I do believe unlimited atonement. However, that does not guarantee ones salvation. One must receive that gift of salvation in Christ, that is offered. Correct?
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Can we simplify?
It seems that the Christianese has completely taken over.

Maybe this will work.
If you take Jesus, God takes you.
If you dont, he doesn't.
And all the other add ons...the working, the worrying about dead faith, the wilfull sinning, all of this STUFF is just semantics, just slight disconnections that people try to pursue when they should just say...."wow., look for what GOD did for me"., and leave it there.
And tomorrow, get up, give God a big hug, and do the best you can, and if you fall, then, that is that day......dont worry about it so much, as you'll get another day to try again.
When the next day comes, you get another try, and none of these tries, save you....they only allow you to use your life to love God for all he has done for you.
 
Faith all by itself, without the corresponding action of obedience is dead.

JLB
 
Qchan said:
Ah, OK. Well, I agree that good works naturally springs forth due to faith. I'm a major proponent of that. However, JLB is not.
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1) I believe that faith that saves, is a faith that obeys.
Eg: if a person hears the gospel and receives it with joy, then later turns away (does not continue in repentance toward God) from the living God, then that person no longer believes (obeys).

2) i believe a person can be saved, but later become detached from Christ, through neglecting so great a salvation, and they stop responding to the Spirit (obeying) and are eventually cast out, as a branch...

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


JLB
 
JLB said:
1) I believe that faith that saves, is a faith that obeys.
Eg: if a person hears the gospel and receives it with joy, then later turns away (does not continue in repentance toward God) from the living God, then that person no longer believes (obeys).

2) i believe a person can be saved, but later become detached from Christ, through neglecting so great a salvation, and they stop responding to the Spirit (obeying) and are eventually cast out, as a branch...

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


JLB
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Ya know, I show videos to simplify my points. Not to override them or substitute them.
You cannot lose your salvation. Check out this video which will further explain what I'm saying to you. :)

 
Qchan said:
Ya know, I show videos to simplify my points. Not to override them or substitute them.
You cannot lose your salvation. Check out this video which will further explain what I'm saying to you. :)

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I have already posted several scriptures that warn Christians of losing their salvation.

Why would you think a video of another person who doesn't believe the bible is going to carry more weight than Jesus or Paul or Peter?

JLB
 
JLB said:
I have already posted several scriptures that warn Christians of losing their salvation.

Why would you think a video of another person who doesn't believe the bible is going to carry more weight than Jesus or Paul or Peter?

JLB
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I've noticed several people attempt to correct you on the idea of salvation. So, at this stage, it isn't so much that people here are trying to reveal the truth to you. It's really us trying to get you to see the truth for yourself. I believe you're in great denial. Perhaps its because you want heaven to be an exclusive club, or that you feel something is missing because the Grace of God is so simple. I'm not sure. Whatever your reasons are, none of us can really convince you before God opens your heart. My recommendation to you is to pray for God to open your heart. Once you do that, God will allow you to see what all of us are saying.
 
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