Bible Study Faith

[for_his_glory]

Faith means the trustworthiness or reliance on Gods word for his salvation for us who believe in him. It's a belief in the promises and blessings of his word and applying his word to our daily walk with him by seeing the confidence in the testimony of others.

The nature of faith is seen through the fruits of the Spirit, which are love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance, which these fruits brings about kindness, self control and faithfulness through the works of God that comes from our heart.

Faith gives us freedom from condemnation and freedom of salvation through adoption as we become one body in the Lord as we walk by faith, live by faith, pray by faith and resist evil by faith. By faith we are an overcomer of this world as we stand fast and are grounded in Gods word knowing we have assurance of all of his promises that makes us victorious in all things here on earth by us applying his word to our lives to know for a surety that he will never leave us or forsake us.

Faith is a living reality in ones life through Gods service by declaring his word as we bear witness to his name by the mighty works he has done. It’s not even our faith, but that of Jesus who is our faith as we believe in who he has said he was and to the glory and honor that he has brought before the Father through his life, death and resurrection that we to can become heirs to the throne of grace by coming boldly to his throne and surrendering all of us to him to be Lord and Savior of our live.

Hebrews chapter 11 is probably one of the greatest faith chapters in the Bible. We have these same promises today and forever because of the covenant God made with Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3 and for all generations to come because we are the heirs of God and joint-heirs of Christ, Romans 8:12-17.

 

[Tenchi]

Faith means the trustworthiness or reliance on Gods word for his salvation for us who believe in him. It's a belief in the promises and blessings of his word and applying his word to our daily walk with him by seeing the confidence in the testimony of others.

Of course, people who are not saved exercise faith, too, right? They have faith in their spouse, or doctor, or dentist, or other drivers on the road, etc. So, then, faith is the capacity to trust confidently in some belief, or thing, or person. In the case of a Christian, faith is, as you've said, a settled confidence in God and His Truth revealed to us in His word and a conscious reliance upon these things.

Christians also use the word "faith" in reference to the entire system of belief and practice called Christianity. "I hold to the Christian faith," a believer might say. What they mean by "faith" here is the Christian religion, not their settled confidence in it.

And the Bible uses "faith," "belief," "believe," and "trust" in semi-interchangeable ways, which can make the matter of the "life of faith" (2 Corinthians 5:7; Romans 1:17; Hebrews 10:6) a bit confusing for a new believer.

The nature of faith is seen through the fruits of the Spirit, which are love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance, which these fruits brings about kindness, self control and faithfulness through the works of God that comes from our heart.

I don't understand what you're saying here. "The nature of faith is seen through the fruit of the Spirit"? Isn't the "fruit" of the Spirit the "fruit" of the Spirit, not of our faith? And if it is the "fruit" of the Spirit, what do you mean by "the works of God that comes from our heart"? Aren't those works actually the "fruit" of who the Spirit is, of his life and work in us? You seem to say this, sort of, when you wrote "through the works of God," but then you added that these works come from our hearts which sounds rather like you're saying our good works are our doing, not God's. I'm pretty sure this isn't what you intended to say, though, right?

Faith gives us freedom from condemnation and freedom of salvation

Hmmm.... Is it our faith that does this, or the object of our faith, who is Christ? What is the really important thing? Our faith or who we place our faith in?

John 8:36
36 "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

Romans 8:1
1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

By faith we are an overcomer of this world as we stand fast and are grounded in Gods word knowing we have assurance of all of his promises that makes us victorious in all things here on earth by us applying his word to our lives to know for a surety that he will never leave us or forsake us.

It sounds here like our faith makes us "overcomers of the World," and our assurance in, and application of, God's promises make us "victorious in all things." But didn't Jesus say that without him we could do nothing (John 15:5)? Our faith is absolutely necessary to walking with God, yes, but it is so vital because of who it is in whom we're exercising faith. God responds to our faith by acting for us in the ways He's promised to do, making us victorious spiritually, and persevering, and spiritually mature. But it is God who does these things for us, not our faith.

Philippians 1:6
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 2:13
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.

Hebrews 12:2
2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith...

And so on.

for_his_glory wrote:

"Faith is a living reality in ones life through Gods service by declaring his word as we bear witness to his name by the mighty works he has done."
Whoa. This is very hard statement to decipher.

According to what you wrote here, faith is:

- "a living reality" (What does this mean?).

- "through God's service" (Do you mean His service to us? Or our service to Him? And how does this service - whoever is doing it - make our faith a "living reality"?)

- "by declaring His word" (So, our faith, if it is to be faith, must not only be through service but also by declaring God's word? Do you have some Scripture to support all this?)

- "as we bear witness to His name" (What does this mean? Also, you seem to be saying that the Christian's faith is only a "living reality" through God's service, and by declaring God's word, and by bearing witness to His name? That's a lot of stipulations on a believer's faith! And this all puts the onus on the believer to make their faith a "living reality" rather than on Christ who is their very life [Colossians 3:4; John 14:6]).

for_his_glory wrote:

"It’s not even our faith, but that of Jesus who is our faith as we believe in who he has said he was and to the glory and honor that he has brought before the Father through his life, death and resurrection that we to can become heirs to the throne of grace by coming boldly to his throne and surrendering all of us to him to be Lord and Savior of our live."

Amen, sister!

But this statement makes much of what you said before it more confusing. You've made so much of the believer's faith, but now say "It's not even our faith, but that of Jesus who is our faith..." Can you see how this might leave a lot of questions in the minds of your readers, especially new believers?

 

[for_his_glory]

Of course, people who are not saved exercise faith, too, right? They have faith in their spouse, or doctor, or dentist, or other drivers on the road, etc. So, then, faith is the capacity to trust confidently in some belief, or thing, or person. In the case of a Christian, faith is, as you've said, a settled confidence in God and His Truth revealed to us in His word and a conscious reliance upon these things.

Christians also use the word "faith" in reference to the entire system of belief and practice called Christianity. "I hold to the Christian faith," a believer might say. What they mean by "faith" here is the Christian religion, not their settled confidence in it.

And the Bible uses "faith," "belief," "believe," and "trust" in semi-interchangeable ways, which can make the matter of the "life of faith" (2 Corinthians 5:7; Romans 1:17; Hebrews 10:6) a bit confusing for a new believer.



I don't understand what you're saying here. "The nature of faith is seen through the fruit of the Spirit"? Isn't the "fruit" of the Spirit the "fruit" of the Spirit, not of our faith? And if it is the "fruit" of the Spirit, what do you mean by "the works of God that comes from our heart"? Aren't those works actually the "fruit" of who the Spirit is, of his life and work in us? You seem to say this, sort of, when you wrote "through the works of God," but then you added that these works come from our hearts which sounds rather like you're saying our good works are our doing, not God's. I'm pretty sure this isn't what you intended to say, though, right?



Hmmm.... Is it our faith that does this, or the object of our faith, who is Christ? What is the really important thing? Our faith or who we place our faith in?

John 8:36
36 "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

Romans 8:1
1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.



It sounds here like our faith makes us "overcomers of the World," and our assurance in, and application of, God's promises make us "victorious in all things." But didn't Jesus say that without him we could do nothing (John 15:5)? Our faith is absolutely necessary to walking with God, yes, but it is so vital because of who it is in whom we're exercising faith. God responds to our faith by acting for us in the ways He's promised to do, making us victorious spiritually, and persevering, and spiritually mature. But it is God who does these things for us, not our faith.

Philippians 1:6
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 2:13
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.

Hebrews 12:2
2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith...

And so on.

for_his_glory wrote:

"Faith is a living reality in ones life through Gods service by declaring his word as we bear witness to his name by the mighty works he has done."
Whoa. This is very hard statement to decipher.

According to what you wrote here, faith is:

- "a living reality" (What does this mean?).

- "through God's service" (Do you mean His service to us? Or our service to Him? And how does this service - whoever is doing it - make our faith a "living reality"?)

- "by declaring His word" (So, our faith, if it is to be faith, must not only be through service but also by declaring God's word? Do you have some Scripture to support all this?)

- "as we bear witness to His name" (What does this mean? Also, you seem to be saying that the Christian's faith is only a "living reality" through God's service, and by declaring God's word, and by bearing witness to His name? That's a lot of stipulations on a believer's faith! And this all puts the onus on the believer to make their faith a "living reality" rather than on Christ who is their very life [Colossians 3:4; John 14:6]).

for_his_glory wrote:

"It’s not even our faith, but that of Jesus who is our faith as we believe in who he has said he was and to the glory and honor that he has brought before the Father through his life, death and resurrection that we to can become heirs to the throne of grace by coming boldly to his throne and surrendering all of us to him to be Lord and Savior of our live."

Amen, sister!

But this statement makes much of what you said before it more confusing. You've made so much of the believer's faith, but now say "It's not even our faith, but that of Jesus who is our faith..." Can you see how this might leave a lot of questions in the minds of your readers, especially new believers?

We do not believe in a Christian "religion" as many that claim to be a Christian religion are not Christ own, 2Timothy 3:1-7. I call myself a Spiritually born again indwelled with the Holy Spirit child of the living God of all creation.

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true church. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because this Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.
(John 1:1-5; John 3"3-5; Romans 10:9-10)

We start out with only a mustard seed of faith as our faith is Christ
Jesus in him alone do we trust and continue to grow Spiritually in Him.

The fruit of the Spirit is found in Galatians 5:16-26 and is a big part of faith as we walk in the Spirit of truth. Within the flesh there is no good things that can be found in us that would help lead others to the Lord. There is nothing of our self that would please God if we have no faith in Him. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also, James 2:26.

The object of faith that is not even our own faith, but through faith that is Christ Jesus in which there is no condemnation and makes us free from the rudiments of this world, Colossians 2:20-23.

It's not our own faith, but through Christ Jesus who is our faith we trust and believe in that makes us more than conquers living in a wicked world, Romans 8:31-39.

Faith is a living Spiritual reality of what we hope for and the proof of what is not seen, Hebrews 11:1.

God serves us by providing for our needs, protecting us, forgiving us, and redeeming us through His son Christ Jesus, Matthew 11:28-30; Romans 8:28; John 3:16; Psalms 23; Philippians 4:19.


By declaring the word of God brings about faith as faith comes by hearing the word of God, Romans 10:13-21, but faith without works is dead faith, James 2:26.

To bear witness to the name of Christ Jesus means to publicly declare and actively demonstrate your love and belief in Christ by living your life according to the word of God. It's also in the giving of our testimony, proclaiming our faith that is Christ Jesus and living in accordance to the word of God, Matthew 5:13-16; John 17:26.

 

[Tenchi]

We do not believe in a Christian "religion" as many that claim to be a Christian religion are not Christ own, 2Timothy 3:1-7. I call myself a Spiritually born again indwelled with the Holy Spirit child of the living God of all creation.

That's a mouthful!

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true church. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because this Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain.

Whatever the root meaning of "religion" may be, today the word is used to refer to a distinct system of belief and practice (usually of a theistic or deistic sort). If this is the basic definition one goes by, Christianity is definitely a religion. It has a very clear, millennia-old structure of beliefs and practices that distinguish it from Islam, or Hinduism, or Buddhism. The religion called Christianity answers the question, "What is a Christian?" setting biblical/theological/historical boundaries on the answer. But, Christianity is ALSO a relationship, the religion directing the Christian believer to a Person: God Almighty, the Ultimate Source of the Christian religion.

The system of beliefs and practices called Judaism didn't nail Jesus to the cross, either, though it was Jewish men who conspired to have Jesus murdered. No, it was the hypocrisy, pride and jealousy of these wicked, power-hungry men that provoked them to crucify Jesus. Such awful traits are not unique to the religious, however, but are found in every domain of human endeavour. Judaism originated with Yahweh, after all, who, through Moses, issued a very comprehensive system of beliefs and practices that set apart the Israelites from all other nations as God's Chosen People.

God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.
(John 1:1-5; John 3"3-5; Romans 10:9-10)

You're quite right that God doesn't have any respect for Man-made religion, but He does recognize the religion He gave to humanity, first through Moses and then through Jesus.

We start out with only a mustard seed of faith as our faith is Christ
Jesus in him alone do we trust and continue to grow Spiritually in Him.

Right. That faith is actually a gift from God (Romans 12:3; 2 Timothy 2:25) that His Spirit nurtures in us, causing it, over time, to grow.

The fruit of the Spirit is found in Galatians 5:16-26 and is a big part of faith as we walk in the Spirit of truth. Within the flesh there is no good things that can be found in us that would help lead others to the Lord. There is nothing of our self that would please God if we have no faith in Him. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also, James 2:26.

So, when you write "walk in the Spirit of Truth" what do you mean, exactly? What is it to "walk in the Spirit"?

When you write "within the flesh there is no good things that would help us lead others to the Lord" is this what Paul meant when he wrote something similar in Romans 7:18? Did he mean to say that his flesh, his physical body, was evil? Is this what you think? If so, how is this not Gnostic thinking?

Can things that don't please God still be moral and helpful? Is the unsaved firefighter who rescues a child from a burning house actually doing something evil because he is unsaved? Or is his rescue of the child moral and helpful though it is not spiritually useful? I ask because many Christians would actually say that the firefighter's rescue of the girl was evil, which is quite bizarre and a violent contortion of Scripture.

James actually explained what he meant by "faith without works is dead" which, it turns out, doesn't mean "non-existent/illusory," as so many Christians tend to think.

- "dead" faith is not expressed practically in good deeds. (vs. 14-18)
- "dead" faith is "alone." (vs. 17)
- "dead" faith is "useless." (vs. 20)
- "dead" faith is "incomplete." (vs. 22)

The object of faith that is not even our own faith, but through faith that is Christ Jesus in which there is no condemnation and makes us free from the rudiments of this world, Colossians 2:20-23.

So, you agree, then, that our faith is not the key to our salvation or walk with God but the Object of our faith who is Jesus Christ?

It's not our own faith, but through Christ Jesus who is our faith we trust and believe in that makes us more than conquers living in a wicked world, Romans 8:31-39.

This sounds like you do agree that the Object of our faith is the important thing, not the quantity or quality of our faith.

Faith is a living Spiritual reality of what we hope for and the proof of what is not seen, Hebrews 11:1.

What does this all mean, exactly?

By declaring the word of God brings about faith as faith comes by hearing the word of God, Romans 10:13-21, but faith without works is dead faith, James 2:26.

Does the Bible produce faith? Or does it just properly orient a person's God-given capacity for faith upon God and His Truth? Scripture says that God gives to each person a "measure of faith." As I understand it, they then use this faith to trust in what God has said to them in His word. As they do, and their experience of God's Truth deepens and expands, their faith (in God and His word) also does the same.

It's interesting to read your explanations of how you understand what it is to be a child of God!

 

[Whatever]

Latin root word for religion is bondage

And that is what we all are = Bond servants of Christ.

1Co 7:22 For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord's freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ's slave. For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord's freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ's slave.
Slave in Greeh = subjection or subserviency): - bond (-man), servant

Rom 6:22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
This word "slave" comes from the one in 1 Cor and means = to enslave (literally or figuratively): - bring into (be under) bondage, X given, become (make) servant.

A slave does what he is told.

Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some . . .

1 Timothy 3:15 but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

You don't have a house of God if everybody doesn't come together and is out doing his own thing.

Religion = the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices.

 

[for_his_glory]

That's a mouthful!



Whatever the root meaning of "religion" may be, today the word is used to refer to a distinct system of belief and practice (usually of a theistic or deistic sort). If this is the basic definition one goes by, Christianity is definitely a religion. It has a very clear, millennia-old structure of beliefs and practices that distinguish it from Islam, or Hinduism, or Buddhism. The religion called Christianity answers the question, "What is a Christian?" setting biblical/theological/historical boundaries on the answer. But, Christianity is ALSO a relationship, the religion directing the Christian believer to a Person: God Almighty, the Ultimate Source of the Christian religion.

The system of beliefs and practices called Judaism didn't nail Jesus to the cross, either, though it was Jewish men who conspired to have Jesus murdered. No, it was the hypocrisy, pride and jealousy of these wicked, power-hungry men that provoked them to crucify Jesus. Such awful traits are not unique to the religious, however, but are found in every domain of human endeavour. Judaism originated with Yahweh, after all, who, through Moses, issued a very comprehensive system of beliefs and practices that set apart the Israelites from all other nations as God's Chosen People.



You're quite right that God doesn't have any respect for Man-made religion, but He does recognize the religion He gave to humanity, first through Moses and then through Jesus.



Right. That faith is actually a gift from God (Romans 12:3; 2 Timothy 2:25) that His Spirit nurtures in us, causing it, over time, to grow.



So, when you write "walk in the Spirit of Truth" what do you mean, exactly? What is it to "walk in the Spirit"?

When you write "within the flesh there is no good things that would help us lead others to the Lord" is this what Paul meant when he wrote something similar in Romans 7:18? Did he mean to say that his flesh, his physical body, was evil? Is this what you think? If so, how is this not Gnostic thinking?

Can things that don't please God still be moral and helpful? Is the unsaved firefighter who rescues a child from a burning house actually doing something evil because he is unsaved? Or is his rescue of the child moral and helpful though it is not spiritually useful? I ask because many Christians would actually say that the firefighter's rescue of the girl was evil, which is quite bizarre and a violent contortion of Scripture.

James actually explained what he meant by "faith without works is dead" which, it turns out, doesn't mean "non-existent/illusory," as so many Christians tend to think.

- "dead" faith is not expressed practically in good deeds. (vs. 14-18)
- "dead" faith is "alone." (vs. 17)
- "dead" faith is "useless." (vs. 20)
- "dead" faith is "incomplete." (vs. 22)



So, you agree, then, that our faith is not the key to our salvation or walk with God but the Object of our faith who is Jesus Christ?



This sounds like you do agree that the Object of our faith is the important thing, not the quantity or quality of our faith.



What does this all mean, exactly?



Does the Bible produce faith? Or does it just properly orient a person's God-given capacity for faith upon God and His Truth? Scripture says that God gives to each person a "measure of faith." As I understand it, they then use this faith to trust in what God has said to them in His word. As they do, and their experience of God's Truth deepens and expands, their faith (in God and His word) also does the same.

It's interesting to read your explanations of how you understand what it is to be a child of God!

Getting ready to go out of town will reply when we get back sometime tomorrow or Tuesday.

 

[for_his_glory]

And that is what we all are = Bond servants of Christ.

What I meant here that many are under bondage of false doctrines from many false teachers that are in the world that Satan uses to deceive many.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

 

[for_his_glory]

So, when you write "walk in the Spirit of Truth" what do you mean, exactly? What is it to "walk in the Spirit"?

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

When you write "within the flesh there is no good things that would help us lead others to the Lord" is this what Paul meant when he wrote something similar in Romans 7:18? Did he mean to say that his flesh, his physical body, was evil? Is this what you think? If so, how is this not Gnostic thinking?

I have no idea what Gnostic's think or teach.

God says our righteousness (flesh) is as a filthy rag to Him. we can only be made righteous by God's righteousness found in us.

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Isa 64:7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

God does not recognize the works of the flesh, but only by what spirit lives within them.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Can things that don't please God still be moral and helpful?

People can live a life of being a moral and helpful person, but if they are void of Christ then it is only their own works.

James actually explained what he meant by "faith without works is dead" which, it turns out, doesn't mean "non-existent/illusory," as so many Christians tend to think.

So, you agree, then, that our faith is not the key to our salvation or walk with God but the Object of our faith who is Jesus Christ?

Exactly

What does this all mean, exactly?

I said, "Faith is a living Spiritual reality of what we hope for and the proof of what is not seen, Hebrews 11:1.)

This just means that Jesus is our living reality that by faith in Him we believe in whom He said He is as our proof is within His word as we apply this to our life picking up our cross and following Him.

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Does the Bible produce faith? Or does it just properly orient a person's God-given capacity for faith upon God and His Truth? Scripture says that God gives to each person a "measure of faith." As I understand it, they then use this faith to trust in what God has said to them in His word. As they do, and their experience of God's Truth deepens and expands, their faith (in God and His word) also does the same.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The faith of Christ, (KJV - John 12:44-50; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9), is where we find faith in Christ. The newer translations has changed where it says faith of Christ to faith in Christ. There is a difference between faith of Christ and faith in Christ as you can read in those scriptures out of the KJV. The faith of Christ is what He believed in the Father as He never said or did anything above that which God gave Him to speak or to do while He was on earth. Our faith in Christ is the same faith of Christ He had in the Father as we can never go above that of what He taught us and the works He left for us to follow in.

The Son of God is that free gift of God's grace given to all who will believe by faith in Christ and confess Him as Lord and Savior so they will see the kingdom of God, John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9, 10. There is no working towards something that is free as all we have to do is accept the gift. Believe is a verb that means something we consider to be true as we have heard the Gospel and not only heard it, but also believe what is written for our well being.

Faith works come after we are Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit that empowers us to go out into the world and continue in the good works of the Lord, Acts 2:37, 38; James 2:14-20. The good works are taking His Gospel message to the world as we too are His disciples and to love and help those in need as what we do we do unto the glory of the Lord Christ Jesus, Matthew 25:31-40

 

[Whatever]

What I meant here that many are under bondage of false doctrines from many false teachers that are in the world that Satan uses to deceive many.

You were disparaging the word "religion."

We do not believe in a Christian "religion" as many that claim to be a Christian religion are not Christ own

Latin root word for religion is bondage

Religion = A particular variety of such belief, especially when organized into a system of doctrine and practice.

Paul to Timothy
1Ti_4:6 If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed.
1Ti_4:13 Till I come, give attention to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
1Ti_4:16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
1Ti_6:1 Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed.
1Ti_6:3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness

Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines.

2Th 3:6 But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us.

Everything you believe, you believe because some mere man has translated the Hebrew and Greek into English for you. Every sermon was some person's interpretation. Every book, commentary and so forth.
Don't go around acting like you are Paul, getting everything you believe straight from God.

 

[for_his_glory]

You were disparaging the word "religion."


Religion = A particular variety of such belief, especially when organized into a system of doctrine and practice.

Paul to Timothy
1Ti_4:6 If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed.
1Ti_4:13 Till I come, give attention to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
1Ti_4:16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
1Ti_6:1 Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed.
1Ti_6:3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness

2Th 3:6 But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us.

Everything you believe, you believe because some mere man has translated the Hebrew and Greek into English for you. Every sermon was some person's interpretation. Every book, commentary and so forth.
Don't go around acting like you are Paul, getting everything you believe straight from God.

Before you judge me falsely, you missed the whole point of what I was saying about religion. There are around 10,000 different religions in the world and not all of them are of the God of all creation and His Son Christ Jesus in whom we believe in.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

2Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

[Tenchi]

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

What is it to "walk in the Spirit"? What, exactly, is involved in doing so? How does the Spirit produce his fruit in the believer? What did Paul mean when he wrote verse 24? This passage is wonderful, but it doesn't spell out the answers to these questions. Can you?

I have no idea what Gnostic's think or teach.

This isn't a bad thing.

Among other things, a Gnostic believes the physical body is entirely evil. Is this what Paul was indicating in Romans 7:18, do you think? If not, what did Paul mean, exactly?

God says our righteousness (flesh) is as a filthy rag to Him. we can only be made righteous by God's righteousness found in us.

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Isa 64:7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

You realize, of course, that Isaiah's words were in the context of God's judgment of wicked Israel. Isaiah was not offering a universal statement about all human beings in all times.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

God does not recognize the works of the flesh, but only by what spirit lives within them.

I'm not sure what you mean here. If a Christian preaches a sermon, or teaches Sunday School, or helps out at the local homeless mission, or serves as a missionary somewhere, they use their physical brain and body to do so, right? But since the body is flesh, wouldn't it be possible to say that these good things done with the body are, then, "works of the flesh"?

What does you mean God only recognizes the Spirit who lives within a believer, not their works? Doesn't God say many times in His word that doing good things, which we generally have to do with our physical bodies, is pleasing to Him?

People can live a life of being a moral and helpful person, but if they are void of Christ then it is only their own works.

So, then, you agree that a person can do moral and helpful things though they aren't doing spiritually useful things? Only those indwelt by the Spirit of Christ who act out of love for God are being spiritually useful, in God's view?

Exactly

I said, "Faith is a living Spiritual reality of what we hope for and the proof of what is not seen, Hebrews 11:1.)

This just means that Jesus is our living reality that by faith in Him we believe in whom He said He is as our proof is within His word as we apply this to our life picking up our cross and following Him.

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Okay. So, you believe Jesus is your "living reality" because it says he is in the Bible. You experience the truth of the claims of the Bible about Jesus as you "pick up your cross and follow him." Is this correct? If so, how does this experience of the biblical truth of Jesus happen as you pick up your cross and follow him?

The faith of Christ, (KJV - John 12:44-50; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9), is where we find faith in Christ. The newer translations has changed where it says faith of Christ to faith in Christ.

Do you know why this change was made?

There is a difference between faith of Christ and faith in Christ as you can read in those scriptures out of the KJV. The faith of Christ is what He believed in the Father as He never said or did anything above that which God gave Him to speak or to do while He was on earth. Our faith in Christ is the same faith of Christ He had in the Father as we can never go above that of what He taught us and the works He left for us to follow in.

Interesting.

Believe is a verb that means something we consider to be true as we have heard the Gospel and not only heard it, but also believe what is written for our well being.

Of course, if we believe deeply and sincerely in what isn't true, it doesn't matter that we believe as we do, we will still not benefit from believing a lie. It isn't, then, that we consider the Gospel to be true and therefore it is, but that we believe the Gospel is objectively true, that it is true entirely independently of what we may or may not believe about it, and this sort of true-ness is what prompts our belief that it is true.

 

[Hopeful 2]

What is it to "walk in the Spirit"? What, exactly, is involved in doing so? How does the Spirit produce his fruit in the believer? What did Paul mean when he wrote verse 24? This passage is wonderful, but it doesn't spell out the answers to these questions. Can you?

The answer is...Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength; and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
That, is walking in the Spirit.

 

[Tenchi]

The answer is...Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength; and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
That, is walking in the Spirit.

Love for God is a vital precursor to "walking in the Spirit." Love for God spurs the believer to "walk in/by the Spirit," it is the only correct motive for doing so, in fact (1 Corinthians 13:1-3). But a whole being desire (love) for God (Matthew 22:36-38) is not how one walks in the Spirit any more than a entirely consuming desire to play football is how one plays football.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Love for God is a vital precursor to "walking in the Spirit." Love for God spurs the believer to "walk in/by the Spirit," it is the only correct motive for doing so, in fact (1 Corinthians 13:1-3). But a whole being desire (love) for God (Matthew 22:36-38) is not how one walks in the Spirit any more than a entirely consuming desire to play football is how one plays football.

Loving God and neighbor, is how one walks in the Spirit.

 

[Tenchi]

Loving God and neighbor, is how one walks in the Spirit.

You seem to have the circular reasoning thing down. Or, at least, how to say something without saying anything.

 

[Whatever]

Before you judge me falsely, you missed the whole point of what I was saying about religion. There are around 10,000 different religions in the world and not all of them are of the God of all creation and His Son Christ Jesus in whom we believe in.

So that means there are 99,999 false religions in the world and one true one.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You seem to have the circular reasoning thing down. Or, at least, how to say something without saying anything.

Is there something about my post that you do not understand ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

So that means there are 99,999 false religions in the world and one true one.

I agree with that.

 

[for_his_glory]

So that means there are 99,999 false religions in the world and one true one.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Not all religions believe in Christ Jesus, but follow after other pagan deities. There is only one true religion wherefore we are saved and given eternal life with God and His Son Christ Jesus.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[for_his_glory]

What is it to "walk in the Spirit"? What, exactly, is involved in doing so? How does the Spirit produce his fruit in the believer? What did Paul mean when he wrote verse 24? This passage is wonderful, but it doesn't spell out the answers to these questions. Can you?

Walking in the Spirit is relying on the Holy Spirit to guide us in God's path of righteousness being in His will for us as a faithful servant. The Holy Spirit helps us to overcome temptations and helps us with the character traits like love, joy, peace and teaches us all truths found in the word of God as being led by the Holy Spirit.

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. If we live in the Spirit we also need to walk in the Spirit as Paul wrote that we need to crucify this flesh with the affections and the lust that are within the natural man where the nature to sin exist, Galatians 5:22-25.

Among other things, a Gnostic believes the physical body is entirely evil. Is this what Paul was indicating in Romans 7:18, do you think? If not, what did Paul mean, exactly?

What Paul wrote in Romans 7:18 seems to be about the same as what he wrote in Galatians 5:17 and Romans 8:5-8 that the flesh will always lust against the Spirit as the flesh is a hostile enemy against the Spirit. Just like Paul, many of us struggle at times between the flesh and the Spirit, but it doesn't mean we are not Spiritually born again if we fall once in awhile. Jesus will always be there to pick us up and dust us off being our mediator between us and the Father as we repent, knowing that grace does not give us a license to sin.

You realize, of course, that Isaiah's words were in the context of God's judgment of wicked Israel. Isaiah was not offering a universal statement about all human beings in all times.

I believe that what was written in Isaiah 64:6-8 is for all generations not only Israel, but all of God's creation.

I'm not sure what you mean here. If a Christian preaches a sermon, or teaches Sunday School, or helps out at the local homeless mission, or serves as a missionary somewhere, they use their physical brain and body to do so, right? But since the body is flesh, wouldn't it be possible to say that these good things done with the body are, then, "works of the flesh"?

What does you mean God only recognizes the Spirit who lives within a believer, not their works? Doesn't God say many times in His word that doing good things, which we generally have to do with our physical bodies, is pleasing to Him?

There are many seemingly good people who do good works, but yet reject Jesus as their Lord and Savior as they have not the Spirit of God in them. If one is Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit then it is Christ working in us and through us using our physical brain and body as we are His vessel that needs to be bringing glory and honor to His name, Ephesians 2:8-10; 2Timothy 2:14-21

So, then, you agree that a person can do moral and helpful things though they aren't doing spiritually useful things? Only those indwelt by the Spirit of Christ who act out of love for God are being spiritually useful, in God's view?

Okay. So, you believe Jesus is your "living reality" because it says he is in the Bible. You experience the truth of the claims of the Bible about Jesus as you "pick up your cross and follow him." Is this correct? If so, how does this experience of the biblical truth of Jesus happen as you pick up your cross and follow him?

Luke 14:26, Picking up our cross to follow Jesus is to follow in His footsteps putting Him above everything that includes our parents, siblings, friends and even our own selves as that is what the word hate means in Luke 14:25-33. We pick up our cross and become His disciples here on earth.

Do you know why this change was made?

Here is a good website that explains this better than I can with more detail.

What caused the shift from "Faith Of Christ" to "Faith In Christ" in modern translations?

The phrase "Faith in Christ" can also be translated "Faith of Christ" (or "Faithfulness of Christ" [NET]): In the older school of translations of the Bible into English (I'll call them the "King J...

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