Bible Study Back to Basics

[Follower Of Christ]

You physical body did not literally die at water baptism.


You have the same physical body you had when your mother gave birth to you.

Your spirit was reborn not your physical body.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

Indeed from 1 Corinthians 15:50-53 "I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality."

Paul tells it plainly. Only at the last trump we shall be resurrected and be clothed with immortality as members of the Kingdom of God. The last trumpet has not yet happened so we have to deal with this wretched physical body of flesh and blood we carry around.

Sure by baptism we are dead to the world and alive in Christ. We carry our cross everyday and have crucified the flesh. Yet we must wait to be clothed with immortality until the last trump and so be sinless forever more. Until then by 1 John 1:8 "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

That is when one is spiritually regenerated his body is still under a curse as it says "cursed be one who hangs on a tree". If you say you are baptized that means at this point in time your body is still crucified on a tree and hence under a curse. Like Christ one must wait buried under his rock until being raised up on the third day. Does that make sense? I do not mean to you JLB for I think you get it but to the others.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

Brothers and sisters in Christ, with the last post I am done posting here at CF for a while. I have been on a holiday for the last two weeks and thought of contributing here a bit. Now I have to get back to providing for my wife and kids. Talk soon! Blessings!

 

[for_his_glory]

You are presenting a false gospel.

Never tell anyone they are presenting a false gospel just because you do not agree with them as that is bringing condemnation on them. Pride is also a sin.

 

[for_his_glory]

Brothers and sisters in Christ, with the last post I am done posting here at CF for a while. I have been on a holiday for the last two weeks and thought of contributing here a bit. Now I have to get back to providing for my wife and kids. Talk soon! Blessings!

God bless you and your family and you will be missed

 

[for_his_glory]

The length is because of all the scriptures I provided that dash the non-perfect-obedience crowd's hopes.
BTW, reclusive lifestyles won't help one resist temptation.
“Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (2 Peter 1:10)

You can cherry pick all those scriptures, but yet you reject the scriptures we give you. Pride goes before a fall.

 

[JLB]

Indeed from 1 Corinthians 15:50-53 "I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality."

Paul tells it plainly. Only at the last trump we shall be resurrected and be clothed with immortality as members of the Kingdom of God. The last trumpet has not yet happened so we have to deal with this wretched physical body of flesh and blood we carry around.

Sure by baptism we are dead to the world and alive in Christ. We carry our cross everyday and have crucified the flesh. Yet we must wait to be clothed with immortality until the last trump and so be sinless forever more. Until then by 1 John 1:8 "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

That is when one is spiritually regenerated his body is still under a curse as it says "cursed be one who hangs on a tree". If you say you are baptized that means at this point in time your body is still crucified on a tree and hence under a curse. Like Christ one must wait buried under his rock until being raised up on the third day. Does that make sense? I do not mean to you JLB for I think you get it but to the others.

Hopeful believes he is sinlessly perfect because he was water baptized. He believes his physical body literally died under water and he literally came back to life with a sinless body.


He completely rejects 1 John 1:9 that say… if we confess our sins…

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

He believes these verse refer to the unregenerate.


When you show him 1 John 2:2 he just changes the subject and refuses to address it and quotes other verses.


And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hah. Only sinners will go to heaven.

Then you don't believe Jesus, who said..."Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt 7:22-23)

There is no other sort of person who can become a child of God.

Sinners can become children of God, but God's children cannot bear evil fruit.
Just as fig seeds cannot bear grapes, neither can God's seed bear liars, thieves, or adulterers.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You physical body did not literally die at water baptism.

Yes, it did.
If it hadn't, by faith, and in Jesus Christ, my old man would still be alive...but it e=was destroyed.
Just as Rom 6:6 said it happened.

You have the same physical body you had when your mother gave birth to you.

That body died, and another, born of the Spirit, replaced it.

Your spirit was reborn not your physical body.

I don't believe in partial rebirth.
Or split personalities in Christ.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

I agree with the scrip'.
What I once was, was born of flesh, mom, water.
What I am now, was reborn of the Spirit.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Never tell anyone they are presenting a false gospel just because you do not agree with them as that is bringing condemnation on them. Pride is also a sin.

How would you react to an evil replacement of what Jesus taught ?
There is no pride in calling a spade a spade.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You can cherry pick all those scriptures, but yet you reject the scriptures we give you. Pride goes before a fall.

Collect enough cherries, and you will know they are from a cherry tree.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hopeful believes he is sinlessly perfect because he was water baptized. He believes his physical body literally died under water and he literally came back to life with a sinless body.

That, and a true repentance from sin; and the knowledge that Jesus died for my sins and I was enabled to join with Him in His death, burial, and resurrection. (Rom 6:35)
And that the new creature that was raised with Him to walk in newness of life was not the same man that was crucified with Him.

He completely rejects 1 John 1:9 that say… if we confess our sins…

Not at all.
And I do agree with the rest of that verse, which some cannot believe.
That being, "he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
If one is cleansed of all unrighteousness, can't they say they have no sin ?

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

Some of 1 John 1 pertains to those who walk in darkness-sin.
But the rest pertains to those who walk in the light-God.
As there is no sin in God, those walking in Him can't have any sin on them either.

He believes these verse refer to the unregenerate.

There are no regenerated people walking in darkness-sin.
The regenerated, walk in the light-God.

When you show him 1 John 2:2 he just changes the subject and refuses to address it and quotes other verses.

Those who won't use our Advocate, manifest that they do not know God.

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2

Thanks be to God !
Unfortunately, some, after gaining the knowledge of what Jesus did for them, still love sin more that they love Him.
They cannot walk on God.

 

[for_his_glory]

How would you react to an evil replacement of what Jesus taught ?
There is no pride in calling a spade a spade.

Who are you to judge anyone in how they understand scripture especially when many of us over the course of time have showed you where you error in your understanding. They who cherry pick scripture to support themselves are not giving the full context of all the scriptures.

 

[JLB]

That, and a true repentance from sin; and the knowledge that Jesus died for my sins and I was enabled to join with Him in His death, burial, and resurrection. (Rom 6:35)
And that the new creature that was raised with Him to walk in newness of life was not the same man that was crucified with Him.

Not at all.
And I do agree with the rest of that verse, which some cannot believe.
That being, "he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
If one is cleansed of all unrighteousness, can't they say they have no sin ?

Some of 1 John 1 pertains to those who walk in darkness-sin.
But the rest pertains to those who walk in the light-God.
As there is no sin in God, those walking in Him can't have any sin on them either.

There are no regenerated people walking in darkness-sin.
The regenerated, walk in the light-God.

Those who won't use our Advocate, manifest that they do not know God.

Thanks be to God !
Unfortunately, some, after gaining the knowledge of what Jesus did for them, still love sin more that they love Him.
They cannot walk on God.

The point I have made and which you have ignored is not about anyone sinning.

It’s about sin in our physical body.

Our flesh is at war against the Spirit.

The reason it’s at war is sin that dwells in our mortal body because our mortal body did not become born again.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

 

[Hopeful 2]

Who are you to judge anyone

It is written..."But he that is spiritual judgeth all things,..." (1 Cor 2:15)
Aren't you spiritual too ?

in how they understand scripture especially when many of us over the course of time have showed you where you error in your understanding.

Nobody has shown that obeying God perfectly is an erroneous doctrine.
Paul calls it the 'doctrine which is according to godliness', in 1 Tim 6:3.
It is written..."If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings," (1 Tim 6:3-4)

They who cherry pick scripture to support themselves are not giving the full context of all the scriptures.

When man rejects the concept of the necessity of obeying God, no amount of scripture will convince him.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The point I have made and which you have ignored is not about anyone sinning.
It’s about sin in our physical body.

So you have sin without sinning ?
Is it necessary to say how ludicrous that sounds ?

Our flesh is at war against the Spirit.

The flesh should have been destroyed at its baptism into Christ, His death, His burial, and His resurrection. (Rom 6:3-6, Gal 5:24)

The reason it’s at war is sin that dwells in our mortal body because our mortal body did not become born again.

Then rebirth is not real...or you end up with a split personality.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

Do not let sin in your body and it cannot rule !
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Why doesn't your church teach that ?

BTW, can you name one sin "a body" can commit ?

 

[JLB]

So you have sin without sinning ?
Is it necessary to say how ludicrous that sounds ?

Many biblical truths must sound ludicrous to those who are ignored them in favor of their own man made doctrine.

Our physical body contains sin, as well as a lustful craving to fulfill its sinful appetites, such as scripture plainly defines as the lust of the flesh —


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16

Have you ever just read and believed what this verse says, without adding your own words or preconceived ideas to it?

How about verse 17?

Why would our flesh lust against the Spirit?

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17

Why is the Spirit contrary to our flesh if it is sinless?


Here is a list of the works or manifestations of the flesh:

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are:

adultery,
fornication,
uncleanness,
lewdness,
idolatry,
sorcery,
hatred,
contentions,
jealousies,
outbursts of wrath,
selfish ambitions,
dissensions,
heresies,
envy,
murders,
drunkenness,
revelries,
and the like;

of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

These things of our flesh are a list of sins.

These are a list of things in our flesh that our flesh desires to do.





JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

It is written..."But he that is spiritual judgeth all things,..." (1 Cor 2:15)
Aren't you spiritual too ?

Nobody has shown that obeying God perfectly is an erroneous doctrine.
Paul calls it the 'doctrine which is according to godliness', in 1 Tim 6:3.
It is written..."If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings," (1 Tim 6:3-4)

When man rejects the concept of the necessity of obeying God, no amount of scripture will convince him.

I'm so sorry you have been blinded by the teachings of man and what we have given you about sin being in our mortal body. God does want us to be perfect as He is perfect, but also knows while being in this corruptible body we will mess up at times as we are still mortal, but grace does not give us a license to sin.

Paul is our great example of trying to fight the sin that we do that we do not want to do and this was after his conversion.

 

[for_his_glory]

Many biblical truths must sound ludicrous to those who are ignored them in favor of their own man made doctrine.

Our physical body contains sin, as well as a lustful craving to fulfill its sinful appetites, such as scripture plainly defines as the lust of the flesh —


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16

Have you ever just read and believed what this verse says, without adding your own words or preconceived ideas to it?

How about verse 17?

Why would our flesh lust against the Spirit?

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17

Why is the Spirit contrary to our flesh if it is sinless?


Here is a list of the works or manifestations of the flesh:

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are:

adultery,
fornication,
uncleanness,
lewdness,
idolatry,
sorcery,
hatred,
contentions,
jealousies,
outbursts of wrath,
selfish ambitions,
dissensions,
heresies,
envy,
murders,
drunkenness,
revelries,
and the like;

of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

These things of our flesh are a list of sins.

These are a list of things in our flesh that our flesh desires to do.





JLB

Outburst of wrath is my fleshly sin at times when I get angry when push comes to shove from others. I've always had temper problems even as a child, but God is helping me to deal with this as I am allowing the Holy Spirit help me with my tongue. Does this mean I am not Spiritually born again, no, it just means I am not yet made perfect until this corruptible and mortal has put on the incorruptible and this mortal has put on immorality, 1Corinthians 15:52-54, and until then with the Lord's help I continue to get better with my temperament.

 

[JLB]

I've always had temper problems even as a child, but God is helping me to deal with this as I am allowing the Holy Spirit help me with my tongue.

I myself have received much deliverance over the past two years and have discovered some keys to cleansing ourselves from being a vessel of dishonor so that I can become a vessel of honor that is fit for my Master’s use; to qualify to carry His mighty anointing to destroy the works of the devil in my family and community.

But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:20-21


Be blessed woman of God!

You are awesome.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Many biblical truths must sound ludicrous to those who are ignored them in favor of their own man made doctrine.

I agree.
I don't think having sin, without committing a sin, is in the bible.
Do you know of such a case ?
Especially in the NT ?