Bible Study Familiar Spirits

[ezra]

i will stand by what i say if the art of witchcraft had been cut off and the punishment for witchcraft in the o.t was death. does any one think for one minute .that God would allow one of his prophets to come back from the dead. to speak to a king who did not acknowledged him . yes this was a counterfeit spirit demonic transformed into a angel of light . next we can get out a Ouija Board ask for help from some of the old time preachers .. maybe Charles spurgeon billy Graham ?

 

[for_his_glory]

1 Samuel 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. 7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor. 8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.

Saul inquires to seek out a medium with a familar spirit, even after he commanded them to be put them away. Why did he do this, because he was desperate after God cut himself off from him and eventually slew him for coming against God, 1 Chronicles Chapter 10.

God would not answer Saul neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets in whom Samuel was a prophet. The word Urim in vs. 6 means divination as in fortune telling and soothsaying. Saul had to disguise himself so this woman with the familar spirit would not recognize him as she knew how Saul had all mediums and wizards put out of the land.

When Saul, which the woman did not recognize at first, said to call up Samuel she cried with a loud voice when she saw this familar spirit come up taking the form of Samuel and also his voice for this is what familar spirits do as they can take on many forms to deceive us. She cried out as she then knew it was Saul and was afraid he would put her to death for what she had done, but Saul told her not to be afraid.

Even though Saul had asked her to bring up Samuel he never looked at this familar spirit, but had to ask what form is he of. The woman did not say it was Samuel, but only described him as an old man covered with a mantle. Scripture never says that Saul actually looked at this familar spirit, but that when it spoke using the voice of Samuel Saul only knew it to be Samuel by the voice that spoke to him as he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed himself.

This familar spirit used Urim as it looked into the future and told Saul those things we read in 1 Chronicles 10. This is why Saul was so afraid because of the words this familar spirit spoke to him that he fell straightway having no strength to even stand.

God did not bring up Samuel from the grave to foretell Saul's future as again it states in vs. 6 the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

1 Chronicles 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it; 14 And inquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.

 

[ezra]

1 Samuel 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. 7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor. 8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.

Saul inquires to seek out a medium with a familar spirit, even after he commanded them to be put them away. Why did he do this, because he was desperate after God cut himself off from him and eventually slew him for coming against God, 1 Chronicles Chapter 10.

God would not answer Saul neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets in whom Samuel was a prophet. The word Urim in vs. 6 means divination as in fortune telling and soothsaying. Saul had to disguise himself so this woman with the familar spirit would not recognize him as she knew how Saul had all mediums and wizards put out of the land.

When Saul, which the woman did not recognize at first, said to call up Samuel she cried with a loud voice when she saw this familar spirit come up taking the form of Samuel and also his voice for this is what familar spirits do as they can take on many forms to deceive us. She cried out as she then knew it was Saul and was afraid he would put her to death for what she had done, but Saul told her not to be afraid.

Even though Saul had asked her to bring up Samuel he never looked at this familar spirit, but had to ask what form is he of. The woman did not say it was Samuel, but only described him as an old man covered with a mantle. Scripture never says that Saul actually looked at this familar spirit, but that when it spoke using the voice of Samuel Saul only knew it to be Samuel by the voice that spoke to him as he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed himself.

This familar spirit used Urim as it looked into the future and told Saul those things we read in 1 Chronicles 10. This is why Saul was so afraid because of the words this familar spirit spoke to him that he fell straightway having no strength to even stand.

God did not bring up Samuel from the grave to foretell Saul's future as again it states in vs. 6 the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

1 Chronicles 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it; 14 And inquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.

exactly God does not use those with familiar spirits to answer

 

[K2CHRIST]

How does a person write that they believe the Bible and say that is was not Samuel when the Bible clearly says it was "Samuel"???

I even wonder how a person thinks people control demonic spirits, if indeed they have been given ears to hear from the Lord and spent time listening to Him? Is it not clear that people dealing with demonic spirits as a practice are controlled my them and not the other was around. Those spirits are liars. They don't tell you the truth.

And it should also be clear that the Lord our God is still able to do what He wants when He wants. That should be sooo clear if you are listening to and working with the Lord. It should be clear even if you know the Bible but not the Lord, and there are people like that. Did we read that when the Lord wants He just going to tell a single Angel to pickup Satan and drop him into the abyss. We battle with the dark forces of this world, but God is sooo in control. The Lord defeated Satan even when He was in the flesh on earth. It's like beating your opponent with both hands tied behind your back.

So they can say what they want, I do think the Bible actually has it correct as it is actually written. Samuel was disturbed but showed up in spirit and gave completely truthful and actuate prophecy to Saul. That is how it reads!

 

[K2CHRIST]

God would not answer Saul neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets in whom Samuel was a prophet.

That was at one point. Then later, at another point, Samuel talks to Saul. Is it really so hard to understand that God acts differently when other circumstances come up?

It should be hard to understand. I think every Christian I have ever talked to that hears from the Lord, reports it being a bit difficult to hear from the Lord at sometimes but not others!

What you find out from experience is that God has His reasons. In fact Samuel, if you care to believe what is written in the Bible, gives a pretty good reason to Saul for God not answering him before.

1 Sam 28: 16 Samuel said, "Why then do you ask me, since the Lord has departed from you and has become your adversary?

And apparently Samuel had already given this information to Saul. 1 Sam 28:17 The Lord has done accordingly as He spoke through me.

Now at this point Saul needed to repent, probably needed to make a sacrifice (because Jesus hadn't gone to the cross yet) for his sin and go about making up with the Lord. But instead, Saul goes out and the prophecy is fulfilled accurately. Obviously God knew that Saul would not try making up with Him.

A demon, if he had that same information, would not warn you. Why would he take the chance you might repent and turn back to God? A demon would lie to you and tell you everything was going to be ok, when it wasn't! We have read the Bible and read about all the times false prophets it was going to be ok and the prophets would be telling them to repent? God's people have always had a tendency to believe the liar telling them it is ok instead of the One coming in the name of the Lord telling them to repent. The Bible says it was Samuel. The information was accurate. And it sure sounded like a message from a prophet.

Jer 28:8 “The prophets who were before me and before you from ancient times prophesied against many lands and against great kingdoms, of war and of calamity and of pestilence.

 

[ezra]

How does a person write that they believe the Bible and say that is was not Samuel when the Bible clearly says it was "Samuel"???

I even wonder how a person thinks people control demonic spirits, if indeed they have been given ears to hear from the Lord and spent time listening to Him? Is it not clear that people dealing with demonic spirits as a practice are controlled my them and not the other was around. Those spirits are liars. They don't tell you the truth.

And it should also be clear that the Lord our God is still able to do what He wants when He wants. That should be sooo clear if you are listening to and working with the Lord. It should be clear even if you know the Bible but not the Lord, and there are people like that. Did we read that when the Lord wants He just going to tell a single Angel to pickup Satan and drop him into the abyss. We battle with the dark forces of this world, but God is sooo in control. The Lord defeated Satan even when He was in the flesh on earth. It's like beating your opponent with both hands tied behind your back.

So they can say what they want, I do think the Bible actually has it correct as it is actually written. Samuel was disturbed but showed up in spirit and gave completely truthful and actuate prophecy to Saul. That is how it reads!

shall we break out the Ouija Board consult the spirits ? God does not use familiar spirits . i think ill go to billy graham grave and consult him

 

[Northman]

i not for one second believe this was Samuel.. no place in the scriptures has a person come back from the dead except Christ . this was nothing more than a counterfeit spirit

https://www.thoughtco.com/people-raised-from-the-dead-in-the-bible-4109363
There is more than 10 examples for you.

Can you point to where in the Bible it says it was a counterfeit spirit? The only thing I've seen it say is that it was Samuel. We have to remember, this isn't Saul's personal journal. We have here an author under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit telling us that this was Samuel. They weren't fooled or tricked. This was someone under His Spirit saying that Saul KNEW it was Samuel. If you went back to the part where the word study part was given, and if you looked it up, you would see this word was also used for someone knowing their wife, Johnathan knowing his dad was plotting against David, and someone else knowing the Lord. Not a single instance of it's use is someone mistaken.

i will stand by what i say if the art of witchcraft had been cut off and the punishment for witchcraft in the o.t was death. does any one think for one minute .that God would allow one of his prophets to come back from the dead. to speak to a king who did not acknowledged him . yes this was a counterfeit spirit demonic transformed into a angel of light . next we can get out a Ouija Board ask for help from some of the old time preachers .. maybe Charles spurgeon billy Graham ?

Laws are laws. They get broken all the time. Punishment for murder was death. It still happened and God allowed it to happen. What puts you under the impression that when it comes to the spirit realm, that no beings are capable of breaking laws when scripture says they have? Emotional cries of ouiji boards in this manner to make someone look stupid don't actually work on any but the simple.

FHG pointed to a word for word study, and although nobody expects anything to roll that way 100%, you haven't touched on anything to do with the scriptures being dealt with. Ex Hebrews 1:1-3 doesn't speak on familiar spirits. While what you quoted in Leviticus does indeed speak about them in context of punishment, it says nothing on how they function. If we take every single the Lord has said and hard line it that means that David would have been killed for murder, which he wasn't, which was in complete defiance of God's word. Mercy trumps absolutely everything.

There are plenty of things God has done directly or allowed that have been repeated absolutely zero times. The explanation that someone figures that because they think that God had never done something before is not a scriptural stance.

 

[K2CHRIST]

shall we break out the Ouija Board consult the spirits ? God does not use familiar spirits . i think ill go to billy graham grave and consult him

GOD'S THOUGHTS ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHTS, HIS WAYS ARE NOT YOUR WAYS. SO ASK HIM AND LISTEN.

There is an interesting and fairly similar story in the Bible. (Kings 22) In the story we see a meeting taking place in heaven, and God has a lying spirit go to king Ahab to entice him to going out to war, and a war in which he will be killed. So what type of spirit is a lying spirit? A demon perhaps? Now this doesn't sound like something God would do, but He did it! Yet the same God that sent the lying spirit also sent a prophet to warn king Ahab, that he would die if he went out to battle.

Some people still don't understand that our God is Lord of lord's and King of kings. He is on the throne over all things! And He has set before you both good and evil. God did that. He set before your both good and evil! So choose good! This two kings, both king Saul and king Ahab were not choosing good, but they were both set before them, and God warned both of them they were about to die in battle.

To Ahab the Bible has it written, 1 Kin 22: 19 Micaiah said, "Therefore hear the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord sitting on His throne..." and Micaiah gives an accurate prophecy to Ahab. It was Micaiah that did the saying and who had a correct prophecy and warning to Ahab.

To Saul the Bible has it written, 1 Sam 28:16 Samuel said, "Why then do you ask me, since the Lord has departed from you and has become your adversary?" It was Samuel that did the saying and who had a correct prophecy and warning to Saul.

Now both those kings of Israel had fooled around with people that they knew did not serve the Lord and God was not for them. Never-the-less God still warned them. That is how He is.

 

[for_his_glory]

1 Samuel 28: 6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

I can only go by what the writers of 1 Samuel 28:6 have written because this was the point at that time that caused Saul in his distress to go after this woman who was a medium/witch that could raise up familar spirits from the underworld of evil spirits.

Yes, scripture says Samuel said and that was because this familar spirit took on the form of Samuel and even his voice. Saul had to ask this medium what this familar spirit looked like as it never says Saul looked at it, but only knew it to be Samuel when it started speaking. This is why Saul paid homage by stooping and bowing down when he heard the voice.

Vs. 16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy? 17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:

Even this familar spirit knew that the Lord departed from Saul and became his enemy. In vs. 17 says, as he spake to me, which means what God had already spoken to Samuel when he was alive and already spoke to Saul, that of 1 Samuel 15:28.

This familar spirit being a demon spirit attending to this woman who was a medium/witch and obeying her command came up from the spirit world and took on the form of Samuel. This familar spirit only reiterated, not to warn Saul, but of that of what Samuel already told Saul when Samuel was alive. For at this time Saul already knew God took the kingdom from him and made David king because of him not obeying God.

God is not going to work through a medium/witch with a familar spirit as this would go against everything God warned us about associating with that of the darkness and the principalities of sorcery and the evil underworld.

Leviticus 19: 31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[Northman]

God is not going to work through a medium/witch with a familar spirit as this would go against everything God warned us about associating with that of the darkness and the principalities of sorcery and the evil underworld.

This, being something completely new and untouched. Reference the book of Job. Satan was the primary instrument in this lesson. God used the devil himself. He went to the bottom of the barrel. To climb up that same barrel half-way and say no He won't use this part is just not understanding.

 

[Northman]

There is an interesting and fairly similar story in the Bible. (Kings 22) In the story we see a meeting taking place in heaven, and God has a lying spirit go to king Ahab to entice him to going out to war, and a war in which he will be killed. So what type of spirit is a lying spirit? A demon perhaps? Now this doesn't sound like something God would do, but He did it! Yet the same God that sent the lying spirit also sent a prophet to warn king Ahab, that he would die if he went out to battle.

Yes, and more like that.
1 Samuel 16:14.
Isaiah 45:7.
Job 2:6.
There was a guy around here named smaller who could give you most all written examples of this sort of thing almost off the top of his head.

 

[for_his_glory]

GOD'S THOUGHTS ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHTS, HIS WAYS ARE NOT YOUR WAYS. SO ASK HIM AND LISTEN.

There is an interesting and fairly similar story in the Bible. (Kings 22) In the story we see a meeting taking place in heaven, and God has a lying spirit go to king Ahab to entice him to going out to war, and a war in which he will be killed. So what type of spirit is a lying spirit? A demon perhaps? Now this doesn't sound like something God would do, but He did it! Yet the same God that sent the lying spirit also sent a prophet to warn king Ahab, that he would die if he went out to battle.

Some people still don't understand that our God is Lord of lord's and King of kings. He is on the throne over all things! And He has set before you both good and evil. God did that. He set before your both good and evil! So choose good! This two kings, both king Saul and king Ahab were not choosing good, but they were both set before them, and God warned both of them they were about to die in battle.

To Ahab the Bible has it written, 1 Kin 22: 19 Micaiah said, "Therefore hear the word of the Lord. I saw the Lord sitting on His throne..." and Micaiah gives an accurate prophecy to Ahab. It was Micaiah that did the saying and who had a correct prophecy and warning to Ahab.

To Saul the Bible has it written, 1 Sam 28:16 Samuel said, "Why then do you ask me, since the Lord has departed from you and has become your adversary?" It was Samuel that did the saying and who had a correct prophecy and warning to Saul.

Now both those kings of Israel had fooled around with people that they knew did not serve the Lord and God was not for them. Never-the-less God still warned them. That is how He is.

This lying spirit, being a demon spirit, in 1 Kings 22 came before God as only God could give it permission to speak lies through Ahab's prophets for God's plan of the destruction of Ahab. It's like how God allowed Satan being a an evil (demon) spirit to do those things to Job, but in this case was not allowed to kill him.


1 Samuel 28:18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.

The thing that the Lord did was cut himself off from Saul as Saul did not obey Him and God knew that Saul would never repent and turn back to God.

1 Samuel 28:19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.

This was a false prophecy as Saul did not fall into the hands of the Philistines, but only wounded by their arrows. Saul being in great fear of what the Philistines would do to him killed himself with his own sword. That day would Saul be in his grave waiting for God's judgement like everyone who has died as no one has ever ascended up to heaven other than Jesus, John 3:13.

The Lord did not deliver Israel into the hands of the Philistines as many of the men from Israel fought against them as they fled to Mt. Giboa and were slain there. Then the Philistines followed hard upon Saul and his sons as they killed the sons, but only wounded Saul. It was not God, but the Philistines that took over the land of Israel as God is not going to just give the promised land to the enemy, 1 Samuel 31:1-7.

 

[for_his_glory]

This, being something completely new and untouched. Reference the book of Job. Satan was the primary instrument in this lesson. God used the devil himself. He went to the bottom of the barrel. To climb up that same barrel half-way and say no He won't use this part is just not understanding.

God does not work through them, but does use them at times as He gives them permission within His plans of what God purposes to happen. I believe it was you who referenced Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Everything is purposed by God above the heavens and under the heavens and we know His ways are not our ways as God does what He wants done.

 

[Northman]

God does not work through them, but does use them at times as He gives them permission within His plans of what God purposes to happen. I believe it was you who referenced Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Everything is purposed by God above the heavens and under the heavens and we know His ways are not our ways as God does what He wants done.

Yes I mentioned the Isaiah verse. It goes with the theme of everything that's being said. God permits/allows all the commands He has given to be transgressed. Nobody is asking to be allowed to do that when they do, to think it functions different with spirits is a private interpretation. Even the story from scripture K2CHRIST gave didn't have a spirit asking permission to tell lies. God asked a question. "Who will entice Ahab?" He asked. A spirit showed up and said what it figured would work. God then said YES that would work, and sent the spirit was sent off with a command to do it. No "Hey God can I?" in any of this type of stuff. A clear cut instance of God commanding a lying spirit to do something. That sounds like "working through" to me. 1 Kings 22:23.

 

[K2CHRIST]

https://www.thoughtco.com/people-raised-from-the-dead-in-the-bible-4109363
There is more than 10 examples for you.

Can you point to where in the Bible it says it was a counterfeit spirit? The only thing I've seen it say is that it was Samuel. We have to remember, this isn't Saul's personal journal. We have here an author under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit telling us that this was Samuel. They weren't fooled or tricked. This was someone under His Spirit saying that Saul KNEW it was Samuel. If you went back to the part where the word study part was given, and if you looked it up, you would see this word was also used for someone knowing their wife, Johnathan knowing his dad was plotting against David, and someone else knowing the Lord. Not a single instance of it's use is someone mistaken.


Laws are laws. They get broken all the time. Punishment for murder was death. It still happened and God allowed it to happen. What puts you under the impression that when it comes to the spirit realm, that no beings are capable of breaking laws when scripture says they have? Emotional cries of ouiji boards in this manner to make someone look stupid don't actually work on any but the simple.

FHG pointed to a word for word study, and although nobody expects anything to roll that way 100%, you haven't touched on anything to do with the scriptures being dealt with. Ex Hebrews 1:1-3 doesn't speak on familiar spirits. While what you quoted in Leviticus does indeed speak about them in context of punishment, it says nothing on how they function. If we take every single the Lord has said and hard line it that means that David would have been killed for murder, which he wasn't, which was in complete defiance of God's word. Mercy trumps absolutely everything.

There are plenty of things God has done directly or allowed that have been repeated absolutely zero times. The explanation that someone figures that because they think that God had never done something before is not a scriptural stance.

I really like the above thread. It shows an understand about the Lord and how His mercy works. David, like Saul, got into problems. And David was given a choice, probably because his heart was generally after God, and one of the choices was to be defeated before his enemies. It doesn't appear that Saul got the choice, but Saul did have choices. When the people were dying David choose to believe that God might change His mind. David repented prepared a sacrifice for His sin, and we see God did change His mind.

Now a sacrifice has already been made. Jesus Christ went to the cross. Yet do we repent and turn back to God when we have sinned. Perhaps we get stubborn instead and want to stick to our plans and try to defend our ways and reject repentance. Stubbornness is like witchcraft. So what really happened with king Saul. Didn't he stick to his own plans, get stubborn, and refuse to carry out the instructions of the Lord God? God left him, so He couldn't get a word from the Lord. Still God warned him through Samuel, if we really care to take the Bible for what it actually says.

Both David and Saul were told people were going to die because of what they had done. Remember that is wasn't just Saul. 1 Sam 28: 19 ... Indeed the Lord will give over the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines!" Yet Saul still took the army of Israel into battle instead of repenting, making a sacrifice, and falling on the mercy of God. Samuel had warned him, and though all knees will bow and king Saul fell on his face he didn't really understand the Lord and how His mercy works. God rejects the proud.

David repented:

2 Sam 24: 17 Then David spoke to the Lord when he saw the angel who was striking down the people, and said, "Behold, it is I who have sinned, and it is I who have done wrong....

David provided a sacrifice:

2 Sam 24: 25 David built there an altar to the Lord and offered burnt offering and peace offerings. Thus the Lord was moved by prayer for the land, and the plague was held back from Israel.

Both king Saul, king David, were warned that the price for sin is death. We too have been warned by these Bible stories. The sacrifice has been made; Are we going to repent? Are we going to listen to the voice of the Lord our God? This is what's really important.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes I mentioned the Isaiah verse. It goes with the theme of everything that's being said. God permits/allows all the commands He has given to be transgressed. Nobody is asking to be allowed to do that when they do, to think it functions different with spirits is a private interpretation. Even the story from scripture K2CHRIST gave didn't have a spirit asking permission to tell lies. God asked a question. "Who will entice Ahab?" He asked. A spirit showed up and said what it figured would work. God then said YES that would work, and sent the spirit was sent off with a command to do it. No "Hey God can I?" in any of this type of stuff. A clear cut instance of God commanding a lying spirit to do something. That sounds like "working through" to me. 1 Kings 22:23.

1 Kings 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. 21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. 22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

It looks like to me that this lying spirit presented itself before the Lord and then the Lord chose to send it to go forth as per God's plan to destroy Ahab. Kinda looks like a "Hey God can I". This was a lying spirit that is different than a familar spirit. Do you really think that God did not know who would entice Ahab? The question was a more so who will I choose being more pondering then literally asking a question. God is omniscient so He already knew this lying spirit would volunteer to do evil.

 

[Northman]

It looks like to me that this lying spirit presented itself before the Lord and then the Lord chose to send it to go forth as per God's plan to destroy Ahab. Kinda looks like a "Hey God can I". This was a lying spirit that is different than a familar spirit. Do you really think that God did not know who would entice Ahab? The question was a more so who will I choose being more pondering then literally asking a question. God is omniscient so He already knew this lying spirit would volunteer to do evil.

The point is that God brought it up. He asked. Him, not something else. You do not have to tell me what the question means. I know what was asked as it is plainly asked in scripture. And no the question wasn't a in-the-head pondering, it was something literally asked and a literal answer was given. The text reads that plainly. Yes it's obvious God knew this spirit would volunteer to do evil as that is exactly what it did, and it doesn't take any spiritual discernment whatsoever to see that the spirit volunteered to lie when God asked the general question of what would work. That again is written for all to read. God commanded it to do what it did. If a king sends an emissary, the king is working through that emissary. Working through.

You said

God does not work through them, but does use them at times as He gives them permission within His plans of what God purposes to happen.

The thing is, how He uses these things, even to the point of commanding them to do so, fits the idea of what "working through" is. In fact, the rest of this sentence you gave is also what "working through" means. What I am wondering, if you will actually give it, is what you think "working through" means. Romans 8:28 says it as well. All things mean all things. This includes the things that aren't good.

For the sake of the conversation in it's entirety, this instance, and there are others, proves God used something evil for His purpose, and SENT it. There is no way that all of a sudden there is a block when it comes to God using a practitioner of witchcraft and that the entire thing must be a lie because God just wouldn't do that.

 

[for_his_glory]

I realize God at times does work His plan out by using that which is evil to accomplish His purpose just like that of Habakkuk 1:5-11. I don't see it as God working through evil, but controlling evil for His purpose as in all things that work together for good, Romans 8:28. God will use that of evil to accomplish His will as He used this lying spirit for the distruction of Ahab as this king had no love for God.

Now, in the case of this familar spirit taking on the form of Samuel gave false prophecy to Saul. God had no hand in it as He had already turned His back to Saul and left him to his own demise because Saul went against God's commands to destroy King Agag. 1 Samuel 28:6 is makes it very clear. Saul had to ask what this familar spirit looked like as he only recognized/knew it to be Samuel only by the voice that started speaking to him. Scripture never says Saul looked at it, but only stooped and bowed his head to the ground when he heard the voice that sounded like Samuel's voice.

 

[Northman]

I don't see it as God working through evil, but controlling evil

This is why I asked you to explain what "working through" means to you. The language on both sides of that comma mean the exact same thing. Working through = controlling.

God will use that of evil to accomplish His will as He used this lying spirit for the distruction of Ahab as this king had no love for God.

I'm not sure what this has to do with any of it. God allowed an evil spirit to mess around and remain with Paul, His servant who did have love for Him.

Now, in the case of this familar spirit taking on the form of Samuel gave false prophecy to Saul.

What false prophecy? Samuel, who the Bible says it was, not a familiar spirit, told Saul that he and his sons would be dead the next day and that Israel would lose. What was said that didn't happen?

1 Samuel 28:6 is makes it very clear.

It is very clear. What it doesn't say is that God would never speak to Saul again. It's giving a fact of that period of time, it's not something that applied to all of Saul's life.

Saul had to ask what this familar spirit looked like as he only recognized/knew it to be Samuel only by the voice that started speaking to him. Scripture never says Saul looked at it, but only stooped and bowed his head to the ground when he heard the voice that sounded like Samuel's voice.

This is what I never have understood from the start. What exactly do you think the significance of this is? I get you are saying that Saul bowed down and didn't look. I don't understand what that is supposed to mean.

 

[for_his_glory]

What false prophecy? Samuel, who the Bible says it was, not a familiar spirit, told Saul that he and his sons would be dead the next day and that Israel would lose. What was said that didn't happen?

Go back and read post #52 as I already explained this as only half truths were spoken.