Bible Study Familiar Spirits

[for_his_glory]

It is very clear. What it doesn't say is that God would never speak to Saul again. It's giving a fact of that period of time, it's not something that applied to all of Saul's life.

No, it doesn't have to say that as it's already a given as per all the things Saul did against God and even plotting to take out David by death up to that point in time. And just what was the period of that time. The Philistines were already gathering for battle. Saul could have repented, but the evil in his hardened heart was greater and overcame him. 1 Chronicles Chapter 10 gives us the rest of the story of Saul.

 

[for_his_glory]

This is what I never have understood from the start. What exactly do you think the significance of this is? I get you are saying that Saul bowed down and didn't look. I don't understand what that is supposed to mean.

What would be the reason he had to ask this woman to describe what she brought up if he would have looked for himself. Saul stooped down with his head bowed to the ground when he recognized the voice he heard speak to him as being Samuel's voice. This is what a familar spirit does is take on the form of someone that is dead that you knew when they were alive. That is the whole theme of 1 Samuel 28 as God turns away from Saul and Saul ends up finding a medium/witch with a familar spirit.

 

[K2CHRIST]

1 Kings 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. 21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. 22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

It looks like to me that this lying spirit presented itself before the Lord and then the Lord chose to send it to go forth as per God's plan to destroy Ahab. Kinda looks like a "Hey God can I". This was a lying spirit that is different than a familar spirit. Do you really think that God did not know who would entice Ahab? The question was a more so who will I choose being more pondering then literally asking a question. God is omniscient so He already knew this lying spirit would volunteer to do evil.

Yeah - it looks like indeed a lying spirit said "Hey God can I", but what is a familiar spirit to you if not a lying spirit???

Were you not saying that this medium had a spirit that would pretend to be someone else? If so that is a lying spirit!

And absolutely, God is omniscient and so knows what is going to happen. He knew what Saul would do, what the woman would do, and what the spirits would do. In the case of Ahab, we see that God sent a lying spirit. That was the account recorded in the Bible. In the case of Saul He sent Samuel. That was the account recorded in the Bible. In both cases the king was warned (got correct prophecy). David too got correct prophecy after he had sinned. There was a difference though. David made a sacrifice and repented, and the Bible records that the Lord then held back from fulfilling His plan.

The points are; that there are conversations in the heavens, and the Lord is Lord of lord and King of kings. He rules and does what He wants. He can send a lying spirit of which a 'familiar spirit' pretended to be someone else is. Or He can have show up in spirit a prophet of old, like on the mountain of transfiguration or in the story of Saul. He, God warns people to see if they will repent and turn back to Him. He always does that, even as He goes about punishing people. And God might change His mind, because of His mercy.

And we have a record, a correct record I might add, of all this. It reads how it reads. Ok, sometimes things are not always perfectly clear to us when we read them. Was it a lady with a "familiar spirit" or was she a "medium". It depends upon which translation you read, but are they not the same thing. Never-the-less the Bible records it was Samuel who spoke, and the prophecy was not a lie!

This does not mean people should run off to mediums to find out what happens. Do they also want the same type of prophecy about their death that Saul got? Perhaps they would be lied to and told everything was going to be ok when it wasn't? It does mean that people need to listen to the Lord. That was what got Saul and Ahab, and even David into trouble. It is what always get us into trouble. If we don't listen, and we don't at times, we are going to pick up trouble from the Lord.

Jer 6:19 "Hear, O earth: behold, I am bringing disaster on this people, The fruit of their plans, Because they have not listened to My words, and as for My law, they have rejected it also.

That is what got Saul, Ahab, and even David into trouble. So what are we to do? The answer should be that we repent and turn back to the Lord and fall upon His mercy, and keep seeking Him and His voice. David and Jeremiah understood this, where as Saul and Ahab didn't, and too many other of God's people (Christians) don't.

Jer 6:26 O daughter of my people, put on sackcloth and roll in ashes; Mourn as for an only son, a lamentation most bitter. For suddenly the destroyer will come upon us.

We, even we who have gotten instructions from the Lord, get stubborn and rebellious. That is what the story of Saul is about. It is about us. Then we don't repent even though God, brings calamity on us. So are we going to return in sackcloth (an attitude of repentance) to the Lord and place our hope in His mercy, or are we in our pride still going to race on to the battlefield?

The story of king Saul is not really a story about not going to mediums, though it didn't work for Saul even when God sent Samuel, according to what was written. It is a story of our pride causing us to not listen to the Lord and not repent when we have messed up. It is a sad story, but it is the story of how we tend to act.

 

[K2CHRIST]

No, it doesn't have to say that as it's already a given as per all the things Saul did against God and even plotting to take out David by death up to that point in time. And just what was the period of that time. The Philistines were already gathering for battle. Saul could have repented, but the evil in his hardened heart was greater and overcame him. 1 Chronicles Chapter 10 gives us the rest of the story of Saul.

Yes, this is what happened!

Just a couple of things. If we believe in God, do we have to worry about the gathering forces so as to go out to battle instead of spending our time seeking the Lord? And, how much faith does it take to move that mountain that keeps us from seeking the Lord?

 

[Northman]

Go back and read post #52 as I already explained this as only half truths were spoken.

This was a false prophecy as Saul did not fall into the hands of the Philistines, but only wounded by their arrows. Saul being in great fear of what the Philistines would do to him killed himself with his own sword. That day would Saul be in his grave waiting for God's judgement like everyone who has died as no one has ever ascended up to heaven other than Jesus, John 3:13.

The Lord did not deliver Israel into the hands of the Philistines as many of the men from Israel fought against them as they fled to Mt. Giboa and were slain there. Then the Philistines followed hard upon Saul and his sons as they killed the sons, but only wounded Saul. It was not God, but the Philistines that took over the land of Israel as God is not going to just give the promised land to the enemy, 1 Samuel 31:1-7.

Saul gets wounded and kills himself on the battlefield and then the enemy takes his body and puts it up on a pike. That's being delivered into the hands of your enemy. The Philistines not executing the finishing blow does not mean the prophecy is void. Nor do absence of details make a prophecy false. That is really reaching to make it all fit. Israel lost the battle and the Philistines remained in their country. There were more than a few times God gave over Israel and it's armies to an enemy, no idea why you say He wouldn't do that here when He did.

No, it doesn't have to say that as it's already a given as per all the things Saul did against God and even plotting to take out David by death up to that point in time.

Well I understand you are saying it is a given, but it isn't. His action against David isn't even listed in his crimes, mentioning it doesn't give more weight. You even say a sentence later that God would have forgiven Saul had he actually repented. It says what it says, not what it is interpreted to be.

What would be the reason he had to ask this woman to describe what she brought up if he would have looked for himself. Saul stooped down with his head bowed to the ground when he recognized the voice he heard speak to him as being Samuel's voice. This is what a familar spirit does is take on the form of someone that is dead that you knew when they were alive. That is the whole theme of 1 Samuel 28 as God turns away from Saul and Saul ends up finding a medium/witch with a familar spirit.

Saul wouldn't have been able to see anything even if he did look up. And no that's not what familiar spirits do. Too much guesswork in this.

I just can't accept even a sliver of it. Absolutely nothing concrete, as in no study or evidence, just feeling. A complete misunderstanding of necromancy. Bringing forth the idea that the Bible is actually lying. I understand it isn't viewed that way and is more under the guise of being extremely spiritually perceptive. Still I can't be led to interpret the language to be something different than what it is actually saying.

 

[K2CHRIST]

Final thoughts on this thread. This thread bothers me. It is not that well meaning people are using it to try to keep people from going to mediums and the like. We absolutely want to try and keep people from going to mediums and the like. Those mediums are seeking after what they don't understand, and I mean they are indeed seeking and getting evil spirits. I am glade that Christians realize that is a problem. So that is not the reason the thread bothers me.

It bothers me some that people want to change want is written and add to what the Bible actually says. It is written that 'Samuel' said, not a familiar spirit said. The fact that God had not been speaking to Saul before nor letting the other prophets speak in God behave, does not give us the liberty to change the passages as written. Yet that is not what really bothers me either.

What really bothers me, and this always seems to be the case, is that people that should listen to the Lord and sometimes do, even according to the personal testimony the Lord gives me, don't listen to Him like they should. Yet, I have to say that person not listening is so often me. So while it bothers me, if in myself, I understand.

So a person might ask me how do I know if others are not listening to the Lord like they should? Well, simply because the Lord starts talking to me about it and starts telling me to deal with, or post, on the issue. Of course He has things to point to and I am talking about things in my life from listening to Him. So from listening to Him and also from having spent a number of years dealing with Him, I have seen He is Lord of lords and is on the throne. I have seen that His throne is above all things, though not all things listen to Him.

From personal experience, I have seen Him crash in on a medium and their work, if He has a purpose. I have seen Him have mercy when we would think that no way He would have mercy in that situation. In fact that is when He usually does show up. Sending Samuel, and again it reads 'Samuel' was an act of mercy. If we are dealing often with the Lord and listening to Him like we should we should see that, but it is almost impossible for someone that is not dealing with the Lord like they should to see it. They get religious and start saying that God wouldn't do this or that. And that is what bothers me.

Studying the Bible is great. We need to do it. But without listening to the Lord and experiencing Him in all parts of our life we are not really going to understand, and I mean we are not really going to understand Him. You are not even going to understand the Bible, then.

Saul was a foolish king. He didn't do what the Lord told him. He made God his enemy, but probably didn't understand this. Saul, who had outlaw witchcraft, became so desperate that he foolishly went to a medium to get a word from God. And we in our wisdom assume that it couldn't have been Samuel because God would not even have Samuel show up then. So we change what the Bible actually has written. It amazes me, because in my years of dealing with the Lord that is now exactly when I would expect God to show up.

How many times in my life has it seemed to me that when I think God is not going to show up and has every reason not to, that is when He does show up with his mercy and makes another attempt to turn a person back to Him? To me, it is like that is the way He always is. The person may not turn back to Him then either, but He shows up in the darkest hour. He shows up at the end. He shows up when we can't even understand why He would then. It bothers me that Christians don't know this! How can they not?? Maybe they haven't been around Him very long - I tell myself. But that is not the Christians I am talking about, it is?

There is a place in the Psalms where it is written that He kills them and they sought Him. That is what happens. It is what was happening in the story of Saul. God killed Saul, and Saul sought after a word from the Lord so hard that he went to a medium when nothing else seemed to work. It obviously showed Saul how bad he had become. God sent Samuel, and again it says 'Samuel', which a message and prophecy so devastating that you would have thought Saul would have repented, made a sacrifice, and done anything else to make up with God instead of just go out to battle to die. That is how awesome God is, that even after all the problems with king Saul, that He would still give him one last warning, by crashing in the work of a medium to warn Saul.

It sounds like the Lord doesn't it???

It does to me. From my times dealing with Him, from working in ministry, from all the things I have seen Him do, it sounds just like Him. No need to change what is written in the Bible, because to me the Bible has it right exactly as it is written. He thoughts are not my thoughts, so if I was God I would have let a lying spirit have the last word to Saul. He deserved it. But the as high as the heavens are above the earth, His thoughts are above mine, and that is what I have seen, so yeah I am not surprise He sent Samuel, just like it is written. And it bothers me when other "experienced" Christian don't understand this about the Lord.

It seems to also bothers Him that His people do not know Him well enough to understand that He loves people so much that He always tries to make a last minute effort to warn them and save them by getting them to repent and turn back to Him. Why else does He ask me to post when I have a business to run and lot of other things to do.

People, God is love!! The whole story you read about king Saul was God loving on a man unwilling to follow Him. So it was a story of God trying all He could to get Saul to repent and turn back to the Lord his God. So when God didn't speak to the Saul or let the prophets speak to him either, it was to get Saul to repent. And it was that same loving God that crashed in on the medium woman and her foolish work to get both her and Saul to repent. And so why this whole thread? If we don't understand this about the Lord, could it be we too are like Saul, misunderstanding the love that God has for us and failing to realize the warning that we too need to repent, turn to the Lord, and listen to Him.

 

[for_his_glory]

Final thoughts on this thread. This thread bothers me. It is not that well meaning people are using it to try to keep people from going to mediums and the like. We absolutely want to try and keep people from going to mediums and the like. Those mediums are seeking after what they don't understand, and I mean they are indeed seeking and getting evil spirits. I am glade that Christians realize that is a problem. So that is not the reason the thread bothers me.

It bothers me some that people want to change want is written and add to what the Bible actually says. It is written that 'Samuel' said, not a familiar spirit said. The fact that God had not been speaking to Saul before nor letting the other prophets speak in God behave, does not give us the liberty to change the passages as written. Yet that is not what really bothers me either.

What really bothers me, and this always seems to be the case, is that people that should listen to the Lord and sometimes do, even according to the personal testimony the Lord gives me, don't listen to Him like they should. Yet, I have to say that person not listening is so often me. So while it bothers me, if in myself, I understand.

So a person might ask me how do I know if others are not listening to the Lord like they should? Well, simply because the Lord starts talking to me about it and starts telling me to deal with, or post, on the issue. Of course He has things to point to and I am talking about things in my life from listening to Him. So from listening to Him and also from having spent a number of years dealing with Him, I have seen He is Lord of lords and is on the throne. I have seen that His throne is above all things, though not all things listen to Him.

From personal experience, I have seen Him crash in on a medium and their work, if He has a purpose. I have seen Him have mercy when we would think that no way He would have mercy in that situation. In fact that is when He usually does show up. Sending Samuel, and again it reads 'Samuel' was an act of mercy. If we are dealing often with the Lord and listening to Him like we should we should see that, but it is almost impossible for someone that is not dealing with the Lord like they should to see it. They get religious and start saying that God wouldn't do this or that. And that is what bothers me.

Studying the Bible is great. We need to do it. But without listening to the Lord and experiencing Him in all parts of our life we are not really going to understand, and I mean we are not really going to understand Him. You are not even going to understand the Bible, then.

Saul was a foolish king. He didn't do what the Lord told him. He made God his enemy, but probably didn't understand this. Saul, who had outlaw witchcraft, became so desperate that he foolishly went to a medium to get a word from God. And we in our wisdom assume that it couldn't have been Samuel because God would not even have Samuel show up then. So we change what the Bible actually has written. It amazes me, because in my years of dealing with the Lord that is now exactly when I would expect God to show up.

How many times in my life has it seemed to me that when I think God is not going to show up and has every reason not to, that is when He does show up with his mercy and makes another attempt to turn a person back to Him? To me, it is like that is the way He always is. The person may not turn back to Him then either, but He shows up in the darkest hour. He shows up at the end. He shows up when we can't even understand why He would then. It bothers me that Christians don't know this! How can they not?? Maybe they haven't been around Him very long - I tell myself. But that is not the Christians I am talking about, it is?

There is a place in the Psalms where it is written that He kills them and they sought Him. That is what happens. It is what was happening in the story of Saul. God killed Saul, and Saul sought after a word from the Lord so hard that he went to a medium when nothing else seemed to work. It obviously showed Saul how bad he had become. God sent Samuel, and again it says 'Samuel', which a message and prophecy so devastating that you would have thought Saul would have repented, made a sacrifice, and done anything else to make up with God instead of just go out to battle to die. That is how awesome God is, that even after all the problems with king Saul, that He would still give him one last warning, by crashing in the work of a medium to warn Saul.

It sounds like the Lord doesn't it???

It does to me. From my times dealing with Him, from working in ministry, from all the things I have seen Him do, it sounds just like Him. No need to change what is written in the Bible, because to me the Bible has it right exactly as it is written. He thoughts are not my thoughts, so if I was God I would have let a lying spirit have the last word to Saul. He deserved it. But the as high as the heavens are above the earth, His thoughts are above mine, and that is what I have seen, so yeah I am not surprise He sent Samuel, just like it is written. And it bothers me when other "experienced" Christian don't understand this about the Lord.

It seems to also bothers Him that His people do not know Him well enough to understand that He loves people so much that He always tries to make a last minute effort to warn them and save them by getting them to repent and turn back to Him. Why else does He ask me to post when I have a business to run and lot of other things to do.

People, God is love!! The whole story you read about king Saul was God loving on a man unwilling to follow Him. So it was a story of God trying all He could to get Saul to repent and turn back to the Lord his God. So when God didn't speak to the Saul or let the prophets speak to him either, it was to get Saul to repent. And it was that same loving God that crashed in on the medium woman and her foolish work to get both her and Saul to repent. And so why this whole thread? If we don't understand this about the Lord, could it be we too are like Saul, misunderstanding the love that God has for us and failing to realize the warning that we too need to repent, turn to the Lord, and listen to Him.

1 Samuel 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

If God would not even answer Saul by using the Urim, (Please look that up if you do not know what a Urim is), then why would one even think God would raise up Samuel from the dead at this point and time to speak to Saul, especially when the scripture says the Lord answered him not. This was the whole purpose Saul sought after this woman who was a medium that dealt in the demonic realm, or as some call it the demonic underworld. She is the one who brought up this familar spirit and I do not for one minute believe she actually raised Samuel from the dead, but used this familar spirit that took on the form of Samuel and used his voice to speak to Saul. I believe this is why the scripture says "and Samuel said to Saul" as the voice was the replica of Samuel's voice.

I'm not twisting the scriptures nor adding to or taking away from them as it takes more than just a couple of verses to understand the full context of the story of Saul in 1 Samuel 28. Just because we do not agree does not make either one of us right or wrong, but how we study and read that which is already written. It doesn't matter if you disagree with me, but never question if one is truly hearing from the Lord as you do not know the study habits of another person. Full context is the key of learning as the Holy Spirit reveals more than just a couple scriptures, but the full context of many that brings the full knowledge of one single teaching. 1 Samuel 28 is the final decline of Saul as God has shut Himself off from Saul for his disobedience and no longer speaks to him by any means.

 

[K2CHRIST]

1 Samuel 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

If God would not even answer Saul by using the Urim, (Please look that up if you do not know what a Urim is), then why would one even think God would raise up Samuel from the dead at this point and time to speak to Saul, especially when the scripture says the Lord answered him not.

First of all it says "Samuel" in the passage! So Samuel did the saying! We can't just change the Bible to fit our understanding!

1 Sam 28:15 Then Samuel said to Saul,.....

So you need to ask the Lord why "Samuel said". Does He not show you His mercy? Is not God love? Does He not explain?

The Lord knows. The Lord created people. He knows what people are going to do. The Lord had a purpose for not answering when Saul inquired of the Him, and He knew what Saul would do when He didn't answer him then even though Urim. The Lord knew Saul would then go to the medium and ask for Samuel! So why??? Why did God do what He did? We need to talk to the Lord and listen to what to our spirit from the Holy Spirit. And check the spirits.

Again, we can't just change what's written in the Bible to fit our understanding!! We need to seek the Lord.

Saul got his answer from the Lord, just not as and when he first wanted it. He got it from Samuel, according to what is written in the Bible! It was a very harsh prophecy, and would not have Saul been even been more aware of his evil actions because he went to a medium to get it, which he knew for sure was wrong? Saul fully deserved the prophecy, and he would have certainly been aware that he deserved because of the way his answer came.

Never-the-less, people, even God's people, too often don't understand the heart of God. Saul was a good example of not understanding the heart of God. Was not the prophecy from Samuel a final warning to Saul? Shouldn't Saul have torn his clothes, repented, made sacrifices, even throw down his crown at the feet of God - whatever it took to make up with the Lord his God? Instead he just took the army of Israel out to certain defeat and killed them and himself in the actions that followed. Saul's heart had gotten hard. But it is an example to us, and how we get at times.

David is a better example of someone that understood the heart of God. David got in trouble with the Lord also, and the people paid a price because of their leaders actions. Yet, David made a sacrifice and repented. He turned back to the Lord and looked to the mercy of the Lord, and the Lord stopped the angel that was killing off the people.

Again, we can't just change the Bible to fit our understanding. It fits. It all makes sense. And one verse does not nullify another verse, even though they seem to at times. In fact, it is usually those verses that seem to nullify each other that are usually the most interesting to take to the Lord. He knows that too.

So the Lord didn't answer Saul even with Urim, then latter Samuel speaks to Saul when Saul goes to a medium. That is what's written, but it doesn't make sense to us. So we want to change what's written, but that should show us that we are not seeking the Lord like we should, shouldn't it? And wasn't that part of the reason the Lord in His wisdom did the things way back then and have them recorded like He did.

Just like with Saul, He knows what is going to happen. We are going to lean on our own understanding instead of seeking Him. We are not going to repent when we do what we think is right instead of doing what He asks. So he sets up little things to show us how we are, and isn't the story of Saul a great example to us?

 

[for_his_glory]

Like I said, you believe how you are taught and I will believe how I am taught as this is not a debate about who is right or wrong, which is what it is turning into, but about what happened to Saul who walked in disobedience and God left him to his own demise. That is the key to the whole story of Saul.

 

[K2CHRIST]

Like I said, you believe how you are taught and I will believe how I am taught as this is not a debate about who is right or wrong, which is what it is turning into, but about what happened to Saul who walked in disobedience and God left him to his own demise. That is the key to the whole story of Saul.

Yes, but it is not just the whole story of Saul, but is the story of men -- us!

But there is good news. A sacrifice was made and so we can repent and turn back to the Lord. That is what He (God) has always wanted. That is why it was Samuel, like it written, who warned Saul with a prophecy from God. God was trying to get Saul to repent and turn back to Him. That is where God's heart is.

So why didn't the Lord speak to him before? Wasn't even that an attempt by the Lord to get Saul to repent and turn back to Him. It is not enough to just turn to the Lord, but we need to repent. Saul did not obey the Lord because Saul thought his way was better than the Lord's way. And when we get to thinking like that, the Lord has to make it clear to us that our ways are not better than His ways.

From my time walking with the Lord, I have seen that I often have gotten that way. I don't do what the Lord actually told me because I have a better idea. Then I stop hearing from the Lord, because He has to get me to understand that my ways are not better than His ways. Yet, when I stop hearing from Him when I seek Him I also start presenting my case and how I was right to do what I did. That is to say, I don't repent. And it is really hard to hear from the Lord then. That doesn't mean He has given up on me, but it might mean, and usually does mean, that things are going to get a little rough. After this happening a few hundred times in my life I finally start to learn that I need to repent and then turn to the Lord.

So now when I read the Saul story and see what is happening. It is the same old story. Saul was just a man. He did what we do, and because of His pride he thought He had a better idea than the Lord so He didn't do what the Lord asked. Then he tries to turn to the Lord in his pride and can't get a word, so does more stupid things, like going to a medium for a word. At this point Saul is going to battle and him and the army are going to loose bad. Saul is going to die. But God is still love, and He is still God meaning the Lord of lords, and so God crashes in on the medium and Saul to warn Him with prophecy, because Saul, and even the medium, need to repent of the evil ways.

We all get to that point, and prophecy of awaiting doom is there in the Bible for all to see. Some men will not even repent and turn to the Lord after getting the prophecy, but some finally do. David was that type of man. He repented with a sacrifice on the altar, and God relented. And remember, Saul too had run with the prophets. So hearing the voice of the Lord is not a guarantee that you will not turn from the Lord. The Galatians, and Saul, are a good example of that. In fact David too, because it wasn't just once that David found himself repenting for doing something wrong, whether it was taking another mans wife or in pride counting all those under him, we have to repent and loose our pride. Still, a loving God is always trying to get our attention, even if it by not letting us hear from Him for a little while. That too gets our attention.

So yeah, the issue was never about whether it was or was not Samuel but was about how man and God interact. If we have been with Him awhile, we should understand that. So it had to be Samuel, like written, because otherwise God didn't care enough to give Saul a last warning.

 

[ezra]

Yes, but it is not just the whole story of Saul, but is the story of men -- us!

But there is good news. A sacrifice was made and so we can repent and turn back to the Lord. That is what He (God) has always wanted. That is why it was Samuel, like it written, who warned Saul with a prophecy from God. God was trying to get Saul to repent and turn back to Him. That is where God's heart is.

So why didn't the Lord speak to him before? Wasn't even that an attempt by the Lord to get Saul to repent and turn back to Him. It is not enough to just turn to the Lord, but we need to repent. Saul did not obey the Lord because Saul thought his way was better than the Lord's way. And when we get to thinking like that, the Lord has to make it clear to us that our ways are not better than His ways.

From my time walking with the Lord, I have seen that I often have gotten that way. I don't do what the Lord actually told me because I have a better idea. Then I stop hearing from the Lord, because He has to get me to understand that my ways are not better than His ways. Yet, when I stop hearing from Him when I seek Him I also start presenting my case and how I was right to do what I did. That is to say, I don't repent. And it is really hard to hear from the Lord then. That doesn't mean He has given up on me, but it might mean, and usually does mean, that things are going to get a little rough. After this happening a few hundred times in my life I finally start to learn that I need to repent and then turn to the Lord.

So now when I read the Saul story and see what is happening. It is the same old story. Saul was just a man. He did what we do, and because of His pride he thought He had a better idea than the Lord so He didn't do what the Lord asked. Then he tries to turn to the Lord in his pride and can't get a word, so does more stupid things, like going to a medium for a word. At this point Saul is going to battle and him and the army are going to loose bad. Saul is going to die. But God is still love, and He is still God meaning the Lord of lords, and so God crashes in on the medium and Saul to warn Him with prophecy, because Saul, and even the medium, need to repent of the evil ways.

We all get to that point, and prophecy of awaiting doom is there in the Bible for all to see. Some men will not even repent and turn to the Lord after getting the prophecy, but some finally do. David was that type of man. He repented with a sacrifice on the altar, and God relented. And remember, Saul too had run with the prophets. So hearing the voice of the Lord is not a guarantee that you will not turn from the Lord. The Galatians, and Saul, are a good example of that. In fact David too, because it wasn't just once that David found himself repenting for doing something wrong, whether it was taking another mans wife or in pride counting all those under him, we have to repent and loose our pride. Still, a loving God is always trying to get our attention, even if it by not letting us hear from Him for a little while. That too gets our attention.

So yeah, the issue was never about whether it was or was not Samuel but was about how man and God interact. If we have been with Him awhile, we should understand that. So it had to be Samuel, like written, because otherwise God didn't care enough to give Saul a last warning.

so in other words your right even though scriptures was given..

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, but it is not just the whole story of Saul, but is the story of men -- us!

But there is good news. A sacrifice was made and so we can repent and turn back to the Lord. That is what He (God) has always wanted. That is why it was Samuel, like it written, who warned Saul with a prophecy from God. God was trying to get Saul to repent and turn back to Him. That is where God's heart is.

So why didn't the Lord speak to him before? Wasn't even that an attempt by the Lord to get Saul to repent and turn back to Him. It is not enough to just turn to the Lord, but we need to repent. Saul did not obey the Lord because Saul thought his way was better than the Lord's way. And when we get to thinking like that, the Lord has to make it clear to us that our ways are not better than His ways.

From my time walking with the Lord, I have seen that I often have gotten that way. I don't do what the Lord actually told me because I have a better idea. Then I stop hearing from the Lord, because He has to get me to understand that my ways are not better than His ways. Yet, when I stop hearing from Him when I seek Him I also start presenting my case and how I was right to do what I did. That is to say, I don't repent. And it is really hard to hear from the Lord then. That doesn't mean He has given up on me, but it might mean, and usually does mean, that things are going to get a little rough. After this happening a few hundred times in my life I finally start to learn that I need to repent and then turn to the Lord.

So now when I read the Saul story and see what is happening. It is the same old story. Saul was just a man. He did what we do, and because of His pride he thought He had a better idea than the Lord so He didn't do what the Lord asked. Then he tries to turn to the Lord in his pride and can't get a word, so does more stupid things, like going to a medium for a word. At this point Saul is going to battle and him and the army are going to loose bad. Saul is going to die. But God is still love, and He is still God meaning the Lord of lords, and so God crashes in on the medium and Saul to warn Him with prophecy, because Saul, and even the medium, need to repent of the evil ways.

We all get to that point, and prophecy of awaiting doom is there in the Bible for all to see. Some men will not even repent and turn to the Lord after getting the prophecy, but some finally do. David was that type of man. He repented with a sacrifice on the altar, and God relented. And remember, Saul too had run with the prophets. So hearing the voice of the Lord is not a guarantee that you will not turn from the Lord. The Galatians, and Saul, are a good example of that. In fact David too, because it wasn't just once that David found himself repenting for doing something wrong, whether it was taking another mans wife or in pride counting all those under him, we have to repent and loose our pride. Still, a loving God is always trying to get our attention, even if it by not letting us hear from Him for a little while. That too gets our attention.

So yeah, the issue was never about whether it was or was not Samuel but was about how man and God interact. If we have been with Him awhile, we should understand that. So it had to be Samuel, like written, because otherwise God didn't care enough to give Saul a last warning.

I am not playing the who is right or wrong game with you as I have presented that of what I have studied and given many scriptures to support what I believe and have written. Like I said, you believe what you want as I am not going to argue with you. God bless you and have a great evening.

 

[K2CHRIST]

so in other words your right even though scriptures was given..

Scripture wasn't believed!!!

It is written "Samuel said"

So why are some saying it wasn't Samuel. The Scriptures are right, but sometimes people want to use one Scripture to try and disprove another, right ezra?

 

[ezra]

Scripture wasn't believed!!!

It is written "Samuel said"

So why are some saying it wasn't Samuel. The Scriptures are right, but sometimes people want to use one Scripture to try and disprove another, right ezra?

if you want to believe God approves and speaks through sorcery or familiar spirits far be it for me try show you different

 

[K2CHRIST]

I am not playing the who is right or wrong game with you as I have presented that of what I have studied and given many scriptures to support what I believe and have written. Like I said, you believe what you want as I am not going to argue with you. God bless you and have a great evening.

It is not a right or wrong game - It should be about understanding the heart of God! The Bible says it was Samuel who did the saying, not a familiar spirit. So why Samuel? You should ask the Lord why the Scriptures are written as they are, not try and use another verse to change the verse you don't believe.

You see God is love. That is where His heart is. So when God did not answer Saul earlier, it was out of love. He was trying to get Saul to repent for not doing what He said. But if we don't understand the heart of God we start thinking He is like us. If someone doesn't listen to us we might not talk to them anymore, because we no longer love them. But God is not like us. He does it to get us to consider what we did wrong and then seek Him.

There is a verse in the Psalms that says that He kill them then they sought Him. That is how we are and God knows that. So He knew Saul would continue to seek Him when He didn't answer Him at first. He knew Saul would even seek out a medium next, because God knows. Yet Saul would have known that was wrong, because he himself had outlawed it. So Saul might have and did think he was right by not doing what God had said, but he certainly understood he was wrong by going to the medium. This should have gotten Saul to repent when the Lord then gave Samuel a word of prophecy and let him give it, just like it is written!!

Still, it was a final word of warning, and though the Lord tried (and He is always trying to get our attention - we should know that!) still Saul did not repent and turn back to the Lord. It amazes me that Christians sometime don't understand that God has always tried to bring people back into relationship with Him. It is that failure to understand the heart of God which has caused people to try and change what is actually written. That failure to understand the heart of God is cause by not seeking Him ourselves like we should. The Scriptures are correct, but they don't mean what you think but what God thinks, and your thinking is not His thinking. You have to seek the Lord.

He loved Saul. So He warned Saul! And He loves us, so He warns us. That is what that passage is about. It is about a loving God trying to get the attention of people who will not listen to Him! That is why it was Samuel, just like it is written in the Bible!

 

[K2CHRIST]

if you want to believe God approves and speaks through sorcery or familiar spirits far be it for me try show you different

The problem is that people think they know the Lord without spending time talking to Him.

God is God!! He does what is right!! If the right thing is to crash into the works of the devil to do His work He can do it!!

So the Bible is correct. It was Samuel who said! And Samuel even now still knows the Lord and hears from Him. That is why the prophecy was correct. So the Bible is correct, it was Samuel that said. So God crashed in on the works of that medium to warn Saul. Which doesn't mean Saul or anyone should go to a medium. It does mean that God is God!! The heavens and the earth are His. He is all powerful. And further more, His thoughts are not your thoughts, and His ways are not your ways. As high as the heavens are above the earth, so are His ways above your ways!!

So we need to do some listening to Him or we are going to start telling people God won't do this, or God won't do that, when God is going to do what is right! It was right and correct for a loving God to try and warn Saul before He took the army of Israel in to defeat!! Of course God would do that, like it is written, because He is a loving God and He can do what He wants, and He will do what is right.

 

[ezra]

The problem is that people think they know the Lord without spending time talking to Him.

so i dont spend time with the Lord ?

 

[for_his_glory]

It is not a right or wrong game - It should be about understanding the heart of God! The Bible says it was Samuel who did the saying, not a familiar spirit. So why Samuel? You should ask the Lord why the Scriptures are written as they are, not try and use another verse to change the verse you don't believe.

You see God is love. That is where His heart is. So when God did not answer Saul earlier, it was out of love. He was trying to get Saul to repent for not doing what He said. But if we don't understand the heart of God we start thinking He is like us. If someone doesn't listen to us we might not talk to them anymore, because we no longer love them. But God is not like us. He does it to get us to consider what we did wrong and then seek Him.

There is a verse in the Psalms that says that He kill them then they sought Him. That is how we are and God knows that. So He knew Saul would continue to seek Him when He didn't answer Him at first. He knew Saul would even seek out a medium next, because God knows. Yet Saul would have known that was wrong, because he himself had outlawed it. So Saul might have and did think he was right by not doing what God had said, but he certainly understood he was wrong by going to the medium. This should have gotten Saul to repent when the Lord then gave Samuel a word of prophecy and let him give it, just like it is written!!

Still, it was a final word of warning, and though the Lord tried (and He is always trying to get our attention - we should know that!) still Saul did not repent and turn back to the Lord. It amazes me that Christians sometime don't understand that God has always tried to bring people back into relationship with Him. It is that failure to understand the heart of God which has caused people to try and change what is actually written. That failure to understand the heart of God is cause by not seeking Him ourselves like we should. The Scriptures are correct, but they don't mean what you think but what God thinks, and your thinking is not His thinking. You have to seek the Lord.

He loved Saul. So He warned Saul! And He loves us, so He warns us. That is what that passage is about. It is about a loving God trying to get the attention of people who will not listen to Him! That is why it was Samuel, just like it is written in the Bible!

God bless you and have a great day

 

[K2CHRIST]

so i dont spend time with the Lord ?

None of us spend enough time listening to the Lord.

How else can we explain the fact that when the Bible has it "Samuel said," we come back and proclaim that it wasn't Samuel.

So we don't spend time listening to the Lord like we should! We tend to lean on our understanding! Yet I run into people who think that is not them. It is me. I don't spend enough time seeking the Lord, but I know it. And if I have something obviously wrong, like trying to explain to someone that what is written in the Bible is not what is written in the Bible, then I need to look back to my not spending enough time with the Lord. I need to go back and spend some time with Him.

Still, I hear from Him and I often talk to Him about others hearing from Him. What amazes me is that He will tell me that someone does hear from Him, yet it becomes apparent that they are not willing to seek Him on certain things. On this thread, He keeps telling me to post, because He wants His people to understand His heart! We need to understand His heart or we are going to give people the wrong impression when talking about Him.

It is not really about whether Samuel said, or a "familiar spirit" said, but rather it is about God warning Saul and trying to get Him to repent!!

Yet that is not the way it has been presented. Is God love? If yes, then God is going to warn people! Saul got his warning, and the warning was to get Saul to repent. This should not be hard to understand, but we get stubborn with our thinking.

So our thinking, which I get because I am a person and not God, is that God would not have sent Samuel because Saul was seeking out a medium. Our thinking is that He would never do such a thing. But ask the Lord, and obviously we didn't understand the heart of a loving God when we made that conclusion. So I have some work I was hoping to get done and instead I keep hearing the Lord tell me to post. He wants you to understand Him and His heart for people.

Jesus Christ, the One whose name is called the Word of God, stands at the door and knocks and if anyone hears His voice He will come in and eat with them. And my friends Jesus Christ was the Word of God before He took on flesh. He was the One who spoke with Samuel through the Spirit of God. And have you not read that He wishes that none should perish? He loves them, and if you care to believe it He wants you to know this!

So the Bible is correct as it is written. "Samuel said", and we don't need to change the Bible to "a spirit pretending to be Samuel said". Samuel said a word of prophecy and we should know that all true prophecy comes from the Lord. That is you hear Him speak to you and you give that word. That is what Samuel did, according to the Bible.

Now it has been suggested that I don't not believe the Bible is correct, but I do. Many hear the Lord but none except the Lord do enough. And my Lord has over and over told me to come and post on this thread. His reason when talking to me seems primarily to get His people to understand His heart. Think about it and consider it!

If it had been exactly explain in the Bible that Samuel said, would you not still have understood that a loving God was behind those words? It was a clear warning about what would happen if Saul took the army into battle. Is a lying demonic evil spirit going to warn you to not go into a battle if he knows you are going to lose? Absolutely not! That is why before Ahab got cut down in battle a lying spirit told him he was going to succeed. It is the true prophesy that have been warning people that without God they will not succeed. The whole Bible is full of that type of warning!!!

So some want say that is wasn't Samuel?? My friends, it is not about Saul it is about us. People didn't want to listen and believe the prophets of old were prophets back then because they spoke a warning. But never-the-less, there is a warning. We need to listen more. We know that, right?

 

[K2CHRIST]

God bless you and have a great day

Thank you. You too have a bless day.