Bible Study Familiar Spirits

[for_his_glory]

1 Samuel 28:12-20 this women used a familar spirit that took on the form of Samuel as this is why the scripture says Samuel spoke. Look closely at vs. 14, Saul ask what form is he of and the women describe the form and Saul stooped with his face to the ground and bowed himself before the form, not actually seeing it, but only perceiving it was Samuel. The familiar spirit only spoke of things that Saul already knew about God being quiet and why He was quiet toward Saul. The familiar spirit never gave Saul an answer of what he should do. Then the familiar spirit proceeded to tell Saul what was about to happen to him and his sons that they would be in the ground from whence the familiar spirit came from.

Saul is now in his grave waiting that of the lake of fire as his name is not written in the Lambs book of life, but will face Gods judgement for being an abomination to God. God rejected Saul for his disobedience against Him.

1 Chronicles 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;
1 Chronicles 10:14 And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.

Leviticus 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 18:9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deuteronomy 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Deuteronomy 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Ephesians 4:9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Jesus was put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit, which means, angels are spirit with no form. Jesus was made a quickening Spirit and it is that Spirit that went and preached to those spirits in prison. Notice the capital S and small s. Jesus' proclamation was to the fallen angels, not to human beings as this is a reference to the fallen angels who are symbolically in chains that left their first estate that was heaven, Jude 1:6. If you notice it says prison, not hell, Hades, Tartarus or even the lake of fire. What Jesus preached to them was the fact that He now had the victory over death and the demons could no longer have any victory over those who are in Christ.

It was only when Jesus ascended to the Father that he had the power and authority to speak to those angels that were captive and bound and let them know (preached) that they are subject to Him now. It's that same power and authority that Jesus has now that he has given some apostles, prophets, Evangelist, pastors and teachers, Matthew 28:18. Lower parts of the earth only means that of the earth under our feet as in grave/ground. Ephesians 4:8-13

Noah suffered for well doing as he did preach God to others well after the sons of God had taken them wives and had children with them. Noah was the only one who found favor in the Lord. In Gods longsuffering, even though it repented God that he created man because of the evil found in their hearts he found favor in just one man and that was Noah. It wasn't Jesus that physically preached in the times of Noah, but that of Gods very Spirit, the same Spirit that is Jesus as God come in the flesh/word made flesh and spoke through Noah. These angels that are spoken of in 1 Peter 3:19, 20 are the sons (angels) of God that had fallen, but different then the ones who fell with Satan.

It is those angels we see imprisoned and bound in chains (not literal chains only metaphorically and no one knows where they are bound) that Jesus, after he ascended to the Father revealed his power and authority that they are now subject until him. The word prison takes on different meanings for how we use this word. It's like when we say we are imprisoned by how we feel trapped at times as we feel the world crashing down around us. The world isn't literally crashing down and prison is only a state of mind.

The familiar spirit taking on the form of Samuel was not the real Samuel as we read in John 3:13 that no one is in heaven other than God, his holy angels and Jesus. The women saw gods come up from the ground and Saul asked what form he was of and the women described the form and Saul only perceived it was Samuel by the description, but never looked up to see if it was Samuel. Remember, Saul had his face bowed down to the ground and never looked up, but only perceived it to be Samuel by the way the women described what she saw.

The familiar spirit took on the form of Samuel and spoke using the voice of Samuel as this is why Saul recognized his voice and believed it was actually Samuel that spoke. The familiar spirit spoke to Saul and asked why he was asking Samuel what to do seeing that God had already departed from Saul and had become Saul's enemy and then the familiar spirit explained to Saul what would happen and that Saul and his sons would be killed and put into the ground/grave. Just as the familiar spirit who will be cast into the lake of fire so will Saul and his sons as he went against God and God shut himself off from Saul for his disobedience. This is why the familiar spirit told Saul that he and his sons would be with him after they die, meaning they to will be cast into the lake of fire as their names are not written in the Lambs book of life and will face the judgement of God. 1 Samuel 28:15-20.

When we read scripture word for word and not sentence by sentence or chapter by chapter then we find the meat of the message that leads to all truth of Gods word.

1 Samuel 25:15 The familiar spirit only repeated that of what Saul told him except his prediction of Saul's death as IMO the familiar spirit knew what happens to those who have familiar spirits and those who pursue after them and that Saul would probably go into battles the next day as the Philistines were ready to attack. Leviticus 19:31; 20:6, 27; 1Chronicles 10:13 are Gods warnings about those with familiar spirits

 

[Northman]

The word used for perceived doesn't mean how is being presented here. The one used is the same one used in places like 1 Chronicles 14:2, 2 Chronicles 33:13, 1 Samuel 23:9, 1 Samuel 20:33. There are more examples of this specific word, and they all display an understanding, or knowing, not a faulty opinion.

In older english that word would have been used more like "We perceived a regiment of enemy pikemen outside the north wall of the city." or "I perceived the love our family has for one another.".

When we read scripture word for word and not sentence by sentence or chapter by chapter then we find the meat of the message that leads to all truth of Gods word.

Important indeed.

 

[for_his_glory]

Perceived in this instance would mean Saul assumed it was Samuel talking to him.

 

[Luminous_Rose]

Thank you for bringing up the dangers of seeking such corrupt spiritual counsel like witches, wizards, mediums,etc. and dangers of divination. It is an important topic always and especially appropriate with Halloween around the corner.

I cannot help but see that passages were left out of this. I recommend reading the entire story with the witch/medium of Endor (1 Samuel 28: 3-24).

Saul had the intention to bring up Samuel, this was no random hocus pocus:

11 Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”

“Bring up Samuel,” he said.

Saul knew it was Samuel:

14 “What does he look like?” he asked.
“An old man wearing a robe is coming up,” she said.

Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.

15 Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”

It mentions these are Samuel's words

20 Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, filled with fear because of Samuel’s words. His strength was gone, for he had eaten nothing all that day and all that night.

It is helpful to note that this passage with the witch/medium of Endor starts with mentioning Samuel died, which would be important to know for the rest of the chapter

3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in his own town of Ramah. Saul had expelledthe mediums and spiritists from the land.


--I have no reason to think these are not Samuel's words or a random familiar that was using Samuel's voice. (I used bold text to separate my thoughys from verses to avoid confusion).

 

[for_his_glory]

Thank you for bringing up the dangers of seeking such corrupt spiritual counsel like witches, wizards, mediums,etc. and dangers of divination. It is an important topic always and especially appropriate with Halloween around the corner.

I cannot help but see that passages were left out of this. I recommend reading the entire story with the witch/medium of Endor (1 Samuel 28: 3-24).

Saul had the intention to bring up Samuel, this was no random hocus pocus:

11 Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”

“Bring up Samuel,” he said.

Saul knew it was Samuel:

14 “What does he look like?” he asked.
“An old man wearing a robe is coming up,” she said.

Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.

15 Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”

It mentions these are Samuel's words

20 Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, filled with fear because of Samuel’s words. His strength was gone, for he had eaten nothing all that day and all that night.

It is helpful to note that this passage with the witch/medium of Endor starts with mentioning Samuel died, which would be important to know for the rest of the chapter

3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in his own town of Ramah. Saul had expelledthe mediums and spiritists from the land.


--I have no reason to think these are not Samuel's words or a random familiar that was using Samuel's voice. (I used bold text to separate my thoughys from verses to avoid confusion).

It's always good to go back to the beginning of a chapter to understand the full context. I should have actually started with vs. 7 where Saul visits the witch. In vs. 14 when Saul heard what seemed to be the voice of Samuel he stooped to the ground with his head bowed. Saul could only understand it to be Samuel by the voice alone as I do not think he actually saw his face as this spirit was covered in a robe. After this spirit speaks, vs 15-19, we read where Saul falls flat to the ground as he feared that of what was told to him.

 

[K2CHRIST]

"Familiar spirits?"

Our battle is not with flesh and blood but powers, principalities, and the dark forces of this world.

Sure, if a person does get into witchcraft, fortune telling, and such it is a very bad idea. You are not then battling against the dark forces of this world, but actually seeking them for advice and such. Yet most people are not doing that, at least on a regular basis, so most people are not "familiar" with it. Still, our battle is with the powers, principalities, and dark forces of this world. That is, we are all battling with the dark forces of this world, not just those seeking out the demonic!

You turn on the television and come against things familiar to you, like violence, sensuality, lying, death, and the list goes on. Still it is written that with their eyes they don't see and with their ears they don't hear.

We may not be of this world, but we are certainly in this world. We are familiar with the world in general. We should be aware of the dark forces of this world, in general. You battle with them everyday. They are familiar to you, and not just if you go to a spiritual medium.

The problem is that we don't pay attention to what is happening in our little world. People battle with depression; that is they battle with a spiritual being that causes tries to depress their spirit. That spirit of depression does not encourage and give them vision that bring life, like the Spirit of God, but accuses and lies to them, telling them it is all going to be bad. That is a familiar spirit to many people. Anger is another. Discouragement is another. And we encounter so many others, that a spirit of witchcraft, as such, is not usually the "familiar" spirit we are dealing with; unless of course you consider that stubbornness is like witchcraft.

When I read the passages about king Saul and the medium, it seems to me that Saul got stubborn. That he didn't do what the Lord asked through Samuel. Face it, we get like that at times. We are lucky that we have forgiveness of sins because Jesus Christ went to the cross. Yet poor king Saul first inquired of the Lord, but the Lord did not answer Him. [1 Sam 28:6] So foolish king Saul decided to seek a medium, and you can't say he was familiar with them because king Saul had them removed for his kingdom. Sam 28:3. If he couldn't have been "familiar' with that, and thus kind Saul had to ask his servants if anyone knew of a medium, because he wasn't familiar with it!! [1 Sam 28:7] Yet they are out there, even if you are not familiar with them.

So Saul seeks after Samuel via a medium, and the medium is afraid because of the command Saul made about doing this thing. Never-the-less she, being an experience medium seeks for Samuel and actually finds Samuel. I have heard some Christians say that it is not Samuel, but you can't get that from the passages. The devil is a liar, but Samuel had accurate prophesy and all the information you might expect Samuel to have. Clearly Saul and the medium felt is was Samuel. So I would like to see the following quote backed up, because the way the Bible actually reads it was Samuel and not an evil spirit pretended to be Samuel.

this women used a familar spirit that took on the form of Samuel

Yes, I think that mediums can and do get evil spirits that they are familiar with to pretend to be someone they are not. Yet we also see that there are many conversations taking place in the heavens! Jesus tells a story of a dead rich man talking to Abraham. You don't need to be consulting mediums, and because of forgiveness of sins, you do need to be seeking the Lord and hearing from Him. Yet it is still written, "Keep on listening, but do not perceive, Keep on looking, but do not understand." You want understanding, turn to the Lord and listen to Him. Samuel listened to the Lord and had understanding.

 

[K2CHRIST]

It's always good to go back to the beginning of a chapter to understand the full context. I should have actually started with vs. 7 where Saul visits the witch. In vs. 14 when Saul heard what seemed to be the voice of Samuel he stooped to the ground with his head bowed. Saul could only understand it to be Samuel by the voice alone as I do not think he actually saw his face as this spirit was covered in a robe. After this spirit speaks, vs 15-19, we read where Saul falls flat to the ground as he feared that of what was told to him.

I like the analysis, but what do you make of it? To me, clearly Saul thought it was Samuel. What Samuel says, and note that they Bible does not say "this spirit" but rather consistently says Samuel, does seem to come to pass. There is something about how what a prophet of the Lord says will come to pass.

1` Sam 28:20 Then Saul immediately fell length upon the ground and was very afraid because of the words of Samuel...

Saul definitely felt this was Samuel. The Bible definitely says it is Samuel, not "this spirit", and yet some people who study the Bible and say the Bible is accurate and say "this spirit". "Why?"

I feel Saul was clearly wrong in a number of things; like not listening to the instructions of the Lord through Samuel in the fist place, and like going to a medium when he clearly knew it was wrong and in fact had given a command that is should not be done in his kingdom. Yet I don't see where Saul was wrong in identifying Samuel, and I certainly don't think the Bible is wrong in saying that it was Samuel! So I have to think the Christian saying and implying that it was not Samuel are wrong. They are going against the Bible story as presented and against the actual words recorded in the Bible.

I would say, first of all listen to the Lord and do what He says [as in seek ye first the Kingdom of God. We have a King with a kingdom]. Failure to do that got king Saul into trouble.

I would say not only make it a command in your life to remove all witchcraft but also keep to that commitment. There are plenty of other verses in the Bible saying not to get into witchcraft. Why seek the devil or do what the Lord says not to do?

We don't need to go around seeking for dead people to talk to, when we have the Lord or lords and King of kings. Why should you disturb them? [1 Sam 28:15 Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bring me up?] There maybe a cloud of witnesses in heaven but they might have things to do also, so don't disturb them! Again, you have the Lord and any ministering angels He might send.

I would also say believe the Bible. If it says "Samuel said" then why don't we believe that Samuel did the saying? What amazes me is that the very people that are first to say they believe in the Bible are often the first to doubt what it says. It says "Samuel" in this set of passages. That is what is written. Are we going to believe the Bible is right like we claim we do or not?

And finally, there is a lot going on around you in the spirit realm. God is spirit. We battle with dark forces. We need to seek the Lord our God. From His mouth come knowledge and understanding. Samuel listen to the Lord and heard His voice. He had an understanding that Saul didn't have. Yet remember that Saul had once ran with the prophets, those people that hear form the Lord? Yet he moved out of that. He didn't obey the Lord. He then went to mediums instead of prophets. Then there were other prophets in the land in that day. Remember that he, Saul, had been with them once. Why didn't he seek them when he was having trouble hearing from the Lord? Did we think about that? Face it, by seeking a medium instead of repenting and seeking the kingdom of God first, Saul got himself into a bad situation. Never-the-less, Saul sought Samuel and it looks like he found Samuel, if you care to believe the Bible. Poor Saul. The news was not good for him. He didn't hear from the Lord when he sought him, because he sinned.

Today we have good news. Our sins our forgiven because Jesus Christ went to the cross. So today we have no excuse for not seeking the Lord and listening to Him. We can seek Him and find Him. We can hear from Him, if we believe.

 

[Northman]

Perceived in this instance would mean Saul assumed it was Samuel talking to him.

I think that is where quite a bit of confusion lies. To apply modern english ideas on this word that involve in part where ones perception can be wrong, was not the word used to describe what was happening. They didn't use a dual meaning word like in english. The other uses of that exact word in scripture are not to be paralleled with the word "assume" we have today. The word describes actually knowing, not once anywhere else does it describe a possibly wrong guess or assumption. Stuff like that is totally checkable on places like biblehub and/or whatever your favorite quick online reference source is.

 

[Northman]

So Saul seeks after Samuel via a medium, and the medium is afraid because of the command Saul made about doing this thing. Never-the-less she, being an experience medium seeks for Samuel and actually finds Samuel. I have heard some Christians say that it is not Samuel, but you can't get that from the passages. The devil is a liar, but Samuel had accurate prophesy and all the information you might expect Samuel to have. Clearly Saul and the medium felt is was Samuel. So I would like to see the following quote backed up, because the way the Bible actually reads it was Samuel and not an evil spirit pretended to be Samuel.

This is pretty important.
A prophecy happened. Saul was given specific information that came to pass. The enemy can't do that.

 

[for_his_glory]

I think that is where quite a bit of confusion lies. To apply modern english ideas on this word that involve in part where ones perception can be wrong, was not the word used to describe what was happening. They didn't use a dual meaning word like in english. The other uses of that exact word in scripture are not to be paralleled with the word "assume" we have today. The word describes actually knowing, not once anywhere else does it describe a possibly wrong guess or assumption. Stuff like that is totally checkable on places like biblehub and/or whatever your favorite quick online reference source is.

The word perceived in our English language means to be become aware, come to realize or understand. This is what Saul did was to perceive this spirit to be Samuel. Whether Saul actually saw his face or not it does not say other then he stooped his face to the ground and bowed himself.

The 1611 KJV uses the word perceiued. In the Jerusalem Bible the word "knew" is used and the 1769 KJV uses the word perceived so it is not a modern English word, but old English. Saul knew it was Samuel by the description given him and hearing the voice that sounded like Samuel. 1 Samuel 28:14.

Perceived and knew is the essence of vs. 14 as Saul was made aware of, realized, understood, knew by the voice that spoke to him seemed to be Samuel's voice.

 

[for_his_glory]

So Saul seeks after Samuel via a medium, and the medium is afraid because of the command Saul made about doing this thing. Never-the-less she, being an experience medium seeks for Samuel and actually finds Samuel. I have heard some Christians say that it is not Samuel, but you can't get that from the passages. The devil is a liar, but Samuel had accurate prophesy and all the information you might expect Samuel to have. Clearly Saul and the medium felt is was Samuel. So I would like to see the following quote backed up, because the way the Bible actually reads it was Samuel and not an evil spirit pretended to be Samuel.

This medium did not call Samuel down from heaven and Saul did not hear Samuel speak from heaven as even now he lays in his grave waiting for the return of Christ, John 3:13; Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.

1 Samuel 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

We see by this verse that the Lord would not even permit a prophet to speak to Saul as even if Samuel was still alive at that time he would have not been permitted to speak to Saul.

This was a demonic spirit impersonating Samuel as being a familiar spirit to Saul. This demon used the voice of Samuel using parts of the truth as he spoke hopelessness to Saul. Saul would have known it was Samuel speaking to him as this demon took on the form of Samuel and spoke with the voice of Samuel.

As far as the rich man and Abraham this has nothing to do with familiar spirits and is another topic of discussion.

 

[for_his_glory]

I like the analysis, but what do you make of it? To me, clearly Saul thought it was Samuel. What Samuel says, and note that they Bible does not say "this spirit" but rather consistently says Samuel, does seem to come to pass. There is something about how what a prophet of the Lord says will come to pass.

I explained this in post #11

 

[Northman]

The word perceived in our English language means to be become aware, come to realize or understand. This is what Saul did was to perceive this spirit to be Samuel. Whether Saul actually saw his face or not it does not say other then he stooped his face to the ground and bowed himself.

The 1611 KJV uses the word perceiued. In the Jerusalem Bible the word "knew" is used and the 1769 KJV uses the word perceived so it is not a modern English word, but old English. Saul knew it was Samuel by the description given him and hearing the voice that sounded like Samuel. 1 Samuel 28:14.

Perceived and knew is the essence of vs. 14 as Saul was made aware of, realized, understood, knew by the voice that spoke to him seemed to be Samuel's voice.

Correct, the word perceive is an old word for english, as I displayed it's use as it would have been at the time of it's use in the bible when they translated it. The part where there is an issue is when things are getting tacked on to it, such as "seemed". That isn't in the scope of the text. The word used that they translated to perceive, does not have a connotation that allows for a mistake. The meaning of it was just knowing something, as the word perceive meant at the time of it's usage when put in the translation. Perceive nowadays, for the sake of the use of the english language, also means that there can be multiple perspectives and some of those perspectives can be wrong. The word for that isn't what is used in the Bible in this passage. If you take out the word "perceive" and replace it with "know", as you already pointed out has happened in other translations, the entire idea of Saul being mistaken has nothing to stand on.

For the sake of a study on familiar spirits, we haven't really heard much about them except what K2CHRIST figures they might be. Do you know what a familiar spirit actually does? The thing is an enabler, it allows people they are attached to to see and hear things your regular Joe cannot. They are gateways not necessarily speaking themselves. One went to a person with a familiar spirit to communicate with spirits. Today they are known as mediums. These passages here are actually the most information on what familiar spirits do. To just assume that Saul assumed when he actually knew, flat out say the familiar spirit took the form of Samuel(which involves a huge leap and guess because it doesn't say that), then have said familiar give a prophecy that came true to the letter, is not really understanding what the thing is or does and gives credit to something other than God himself as able to predict the future.

 

[K2CHRIST]

1 Samuel 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

We see by this verse that the Lord would not even permit a prophet to speak to Saul as even if Samuel was still alive at that time he would have not been permitted to speak to Saul.

The Lord always has His reasons. Just because at one moment the Lord decides not to speak to us on something, it doesn't mean He will continue like that. Rev 3:20 I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice... So in fact, today anyone can hear His voice. Of course Jesus has gone to the cross, but God was always God. He didn't suddenly become merciful when He used to not be. We know that, right? But to make a point and accomplish His plan He did what He did. Hezehiah understood this better than Saul. Though Hezekiah was told he was going to die, he got God to change His mind.

Never-the-less, if the Bible has it "Samuel said to Saul" then "Samuel said to Saul." You might not understand how it is Samuel, but it was Samuel. We cannot say that just because at one moment God wouldn't talk to Saul, God wouldn't ever talk to Saul, or that God wouldn't send Samuel to talk to God. That is a jump in logic and causes us to oppose what is actually written in the Scriptures.

People, if it seems like you are not getting and answer from the Lord, keep praying!!! Keep talking to Him. Perhaps He won't change his mind, perhaps He will. Be more like Hezekiah and less like Saul. Isaiah wrote something about giving Him no rest. Is 62:7 , and also Paul something about where sin abound his mercy and grace more. Rm 5:20 It was the same God then as now. According to the Scriptures, ( if we actually do care to believe them) Samuel came and gave Saul some news concerning his death, and Isaiah at one point also gave Hezekiah news concerning his death. They took a different approach to the news, and one found favor.

 

[K2CHRIST]

For the sake of a study on familiar spirits, we haven't really heard much about them except what K2CHRIST figures they might be. Do you know what a familiar spirit actually does? The thing is an enabler, it allows people they are attached to to see and hear things your regular Joe cannot. They are gateways not necessarily speaking themselves. One went to a person with a familiar spirit to communicate with spirits. Today they are known as mediums. These passages here are actually the most information on what familiar spirits do. To just assume that Saul assumed when he actually knew, flat out say the familiar spirit took the form of Samuel(which involves a huge leap and guess because it doesn't say that), then have said familiar give a prophecy that came true to the letter, is not really understanding what the thing is or does and gives credit to something other than God himself as able to predict the future.

I like reading what others are think. Sometime I find a term means something different to others than to me.

To me, spirits are being without a body. We people are spirits in a body. God is spirit, and we see heavenly beings that serve Him, often called angels. We also find out there are evil spirits or beings and they are in no small number. Jesus removes legion from a man. And we all battle with them, whether we know it or not. That doesn't mean we want to be familiar with them, does it. If in a battle with them we don't want to be familiar with them. Yet a person into witchcraft does want to be familiar with them!!

We should be testing the spirits, because many have gone out as false prophets. (See Jn 4:1) But few Christians I talk to spend much time using that test. So we might be familiar with evil spirits simply because we don't spend much time actually discerning between spirits!

Stubbornness is like witchcraft, according to the Scriptures. If we get stubborn do we come into agreement and familiarity with evil spirits? And what happens if we hold on to anger and are unwilling to forgive others, have we come into agreement and familiarity with evil spirits? Do we really spend time listening to the Lord and seeking His voice, or do we just give that lip service? That is to say, are we really seeking good, knowing only God is good, and avoiding evil by testing the spirits?

To me, familiar spirits are those who are familiar to me. The Lord is familiar to me. We talk. He calls me His friends. He is not the only spirit I hear from The Lord sends angels to minister to me. (Heb 1:14) I know some of them well enough to be familiar with them. And there are evil spirits that I sometime hear from. If I become aware of them I try to get rid of them, although once I heard the Lord tell me His grace was enough for me, like Paul once wrote about. I too still have a battle with the dark forces of this world.

A few things I have figured out. One is that information about me is out there in the spiritual realm. C.S. Lewis wrote and interesting book called" The Screwtape Letters". The fictional, the concept seems to present a reasonable understanding of what seems to be going on in the spiritual realm around us. There are spiritual beings, good and bad, who are trying to influence us. We still have the ability to make choices. Choose good. Choose to seek the Lord Jesus Christ and listen to what He says. Don't be like those of whom it is written, "With their ears they don't hear.."

So maybe some are seeing 'familiar spirits' as those people into witchcraft are familiar with and are using that term for that purpose only, but I believe we should take a broader view because God is spirit and you can be familiar with Him and with His kingdom. God has put before us both good and evil.

 

[for_his_glory]

The Lord always has His reasons. Just because at one moment the Lord decides not to speak to us on something, it doesn't mean He will continue like that. Rev 3:20 I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice... So in fact, today anyone can hear His voice. Of course Jesus has gone to the cross, but God was always God. He didn't suddenly become merciful when He used to not be. We know that, right? But to make a point and accomplish His plan He did what He did. Hezehiah understood this better than Saul. Though Hezekiah was told he was going to die, he got God to change His mind.

Never-the-less, if the Bible has it "Samuel said to Saul" then "Samuel said to Saul." You might not understand how it is Samuel, but it was Samuel. We cannot say that just because at one moment God wouldn't talk to Saul, God wouldn't ever talk to Saul, or that God wouldn't send Samuel to talk to God. That is a jump in logic and causes us to oppose what is actually written in the Scriptures.

People, if it seems like you are not getting and answer from the Lord, keep praying!!! Keep talking to Him. Perhaps He won't change his mind, perhaps He will. Be more like Hezekiah and less like Saul. Isaiah wrote something about giving Him no rest. Is 62:7 , and also Paul something about where sin abound his mercy and grace more. Rm 5:20 It was the same God then as now. According to the Scriptures, ( if we actually do care to believe them) Samuel came and gave Saul some news concerning his death, and Isaiah at one point also gave Hezekiah news concerning his death. They took a different approach to the news, and one found favor.

1 Samuel 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. 7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

1 Samuel 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. 12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

A familiar spirit is one you would recognize as this demon spirit took on the form of Samuel and even spoke like him. The woman was the only one who saw that it looked like Samuel as I believe Saul never looked upon him as he asked the woman to describe Samuel. Saul understood this to be Samuel and as he stooped with his face to the ground as he bowed before him.

1 Samuel 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. 16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
(Go back and read vs. 6)

In Saul's distress he was grasping for anything that would ease his distress and fear as he knew if Samuel was still alive he would tell Saul what to do. What this familiar spirit spoke to him in vs. 16-19 made Saul even more afraid so much that he fell flat on the ground for he had no strength left in him for he had not eaten bread all day nor all the night.

 

[for_his_glory]

Correct, the word perceive is an old word for english, as I displayed it's use as it would have been at the time of it's use in the bible when they translated it. The part where there is an issue is when things are getting tacked on to it, such as "seemed". That isn't in the scope of the text. The word used that they translated to perceive, does not have a connotation that allows for a mistake. The meaning of it was just knowing something, as the word perceive meant at the time of it's usage when put in the translation. Perceive nowadays, for the sake of the use of the english language, also means that there can be multiple perspectives and some of those perspectives can be wrong. The word for that isn't what is used in the Bible in this passage. If you take out the word "perceive" and replace it with "know", as you already pointed out has happened in other translations, the entire idea of Saul being mistaken has nothing to stand on.

For the sake of a study on familiar spirits, we haven't really heard much about them except what K2CHRIST figures they might be. Do you know what a familiar spirit actually does? The thing is an enabler, it allows people they are attached to to see and hear things your regular Joe cannot. They are gateways not necessarily speaking themselves. One went to a person with a familiar spirit to communicate with spirits. Today they are known as mediums. These passages here are actually the most information on what familiar spirits do. To just assume that Saul assumed when he actually knew, flat out say the familiar spirit took the form of Samuel(which involves a huge leap and guess because it doesn't say that), then have said familiar give a prophecy that came true to the letter, is not really understanding what the thing is or does and gives credit to something other than God himself as able to predict the future.

I get so tired of everything having to be politically correct by mans understanding of the English language and its use of particular words. I read my KJV for what is already written apart from what man deems to be mistakes in it (not saying there aren't any). Is it not the Holy Spirit that is the teacher or is man our teacher. Studying is much more than just reading. It is cross referencing scripture for scripture, word for word, OT with NT, history and culture of the times. We need to hear and listen to what the Spirit of God is speaking to us in all truths. We are human and sometimes miss what the Spirit is speaking, but will always correct us if we are opened to be corrected.

I do know what familiar spirits are and how they function. Just because we do not agree on certain things does not affect our salvation it just means we are ever learning.

 

[K2CHRIST]

We need to hear and listen to what the Spirit of God is speaking to us in all truths. We are human and sometimes miss what the Spirit is speaking, but will always correct us if we are opened to be corrected.

As the loving Teacher, Wonderful Counselor, and Everlasting Father the Lord does indeed reprove us. Perhaps not every time but as He needs to. He wouldn't want to exasperate us, but He does want to increase our understanding. We need to understand that there is both good and evil, and we need to choose good. Saul did choose good and suffered.

So did our Wonderful, loving Teacher just give up on Saul, or was He actually trying to get through to Saul till the very end? What is our understanding? From my dealings with the Lord, my understanding is that He keeps on trying to get through to us to the very end. I see this in numerous ways, and it is very obvious in the hospital ministry the Lord has me in, where I sometimes wind up dealing with people and their families right before a death. To me, it seems that God works harder then than normal.

As a result, when I read that Samuel showed up, I have to believe it was Samuel, as written. So why didn't the Lord speak to Saul or let others that knew Him speak to Saul shortly before that. It seems to me the Lord was testing Saul. Would Saul keep seeking the Lord? Was Saul's heart really after the Lord, so that he might press through? No, it seems Saul instead would seek a medium. So was the Lord going to give up on Saul then? I don't believe it, not according to my understanding from the Lord. God is love.

So I believe God did let Samuel go as requested, and Samuel thus gave the accurate deadly prophecy to Saul. But wasn't even that accurate prophecy given so that Saul might even at that late hour consider repenting of his ways? I believe so. Perhaps if Saul had acted like Hezekiah did when he was told he was going to die, God might have changed his mind. I have to think that God might have changed His mind and given mercy, because that is what I see. That is not to say that people don't die and even in a horrible state where evil and hell awaits, but when I look I find that God always seems to be up to something, like reproving us because He loves us.

 

[Northman]

To me, familiar spirits are those who are familiar to me. The Lord is familiar to me. We talk. He calls me His friends. He is not the only spirit I hear from The Lord sends angels to minister to me. (Heb 1:14) I know some of them well enough to be familiar with them. And there are evil spirits that I sometime hear from. If I become aware of them I try to get rid of them, although once I heard the Lord tell me His grace was enough for me, like Paul once wrote about. I too still have a battle with the dark forces of this world.

A few things I have figured out. One is that information about me is out there in the spiritual realm. C.S. Lewis wrote and interesting book called" The Screwtape Letters". The fictional, the concept seems to present a reasonable understanding of what seems to be going on in the spiritual realm around us. There are spiritual beings, good and bad, who are trying to influence us. We still have the ability to make choices. Choose good. Choose to seek the Lord Jesus Christ and listen to what He says. Don't be like those of whom it is written, "With their ears they don't hear.."

So maybe some are seeing 'familiar spirits' as those people into witchcraft are familiar with and are using that term for that purpose only, but I believe we should take a broader view because God is spirit and you can be familiar with Him and with His kingdom. God has put before us both good and evil.

In this case, a familiar spirit is something the Hebrews called 'ob. This is not to be confused with God being familiar to you, or angels being your pals. The word is used to describe necromancy. The only reason the word familiar made it in there in the first place is it's use in latin, which roughly translates to household servant. Somewhere in England they figured these spirits actually served the people they were attached to so they were given that title in the translation.

 

[Northman]

I get so tired of everything having to be politically correct by mans understanding of the English language and its use of particular words. I read my KJV for what is already written apart from what man deems to be mistakes in it (not saying there aren't any). Is it not the Holy Spirit that is the teacher or is man our teacher. Studying is much more than just reading. It is cross referencing scripture for scripture, word for word, OT with NT, history and culture of the times. We need to hear and listen to what the Spirit of God is speaking to us in all truths. We are human and sometimes miss what the Spirit is speaking, but will always correct us if we are opened to be corrected.

I do know what familiar spirits are and how they function. Just because we do not agree on certain things does not affect our salvation it just means we are ever learning.

You don't have to be politically correct, but when attempting to teach from the Bible, it is of utmost importance that we be literally or grammatically correct. If we don't care to do that, then we end up teaching people the total wrong thing. Teachers will be judged more strictly and is why many shouldn't do it at all, because of the lack of diligence. Enough false teaching and not caring about it yields no reward except death number two, so yes I would have to say this type of stuff does indeed effect salvation. It's one thing to bat around ideas and ask questions, but coming out with a lesson that's off the walls is another matter entirely.