Fig tree 101

[Zinc]

Its clear He says when all these thing take place summer is near

No he doesn't say that. The reference to "summer" is just connected to the fig tree.

 

[Sinthesis]

Why would you say that? Jesus just said all these things take place and summer is near, Jesus spoke of His return last with all those events, therefore His return is included.
If your going to try and tell me Christ's return is spiritual, i will blatently tell you that is foolishness, there is more than enough scripture to support a literal return and a literal resurrection at that return, other than spiritually putting that out there i dont know why you would even say that, you might want to be more precise.

The term 'spiritual' is overused. Perhaps 'abstract' would be better.

Mat 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.​

 

[Hitch]

No he doesn't say that. The reference to "summer" is just connected to the fig tree.

Fair warning Z; applying logic like that can lead to preterism.

 

[n2thelight]

No he doesn't say that. The reference to "summer" is just connected to the fig tree.

We don't know the date,however Christ just gave us the season....The good and bad figs had to return to Israel.....Before 1948 when was Israel last a nation?

 

[Lehigh3]

Why would you say that? Jesus just said all these things take place and summer is near, Jesus spoke of His return last with all those events, therefore His return is included.
If your going to try and tell me Christ's return is spiritual, i will blatently tell you that is foolishness, there is more than enough scripture to support a literal return and a literal resurrection at that return, other than spiritually putting that out there i dont know why you would even say that, you might want to be more precise.

Why call others foolish?! The spiritual understand these things. And the wise understand that His return was SPIRITUAL & He LITERALLY RETURNED.

All was fulfilled- just like Christ said in Luke 21:20-22. ALL, not some, nothing was postponed. That is what is supported in scripture & history too.

I don't understand what some Christians are waiting for that God doesn't do from heaven now. Is God limited now?

 

[warfrog]

No he doesn't say that. The reference to "summer" is just connected to the fig tree.

"Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it http://www.biblestudytools.com/nkjv/matthew/passage.aspx?q=matthew+24:32-36#fn-descriptionAnchor-ais near--at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, http://www.biblestudytools.com/nkjv/matthew/passage.aspx?q=matthew+24:32-36#fn-descriptionAnchor-bbut My Father only.

He doesnt?

 

[warfrog]

The term 'spiritual' is overused. Perhaps 'abstract' would be better.

Mat 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
​

So how is He gathered in the midst of them?

 

[warfrog]

Why call others foolish?! The spiritual understand these things. And the wise understand that His return was SPIRITUAL & He LITERALLY RETURNED.

All was fulfilled- just like Christ said in Luke 21:20-22. ALL, not some, nothing was postponed. That is what is supported in scripture & history too.

I don't understand what some Christians are waiting for that God doesn't do from heaven now. Is God limited now?

Well for one you blanetly deny the resurrection that takes place at His return if you think its symbolic, I call it foolishness because it is.....Paul had no problem doing the exact same thing.

 

[Zinc]

Its clear He says when all these thing take place summer is near

No he doesn't say that. The reference to "summer" is just connected to the fig tree.

"Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

He doesnt?

From the Luke version:

[29] And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
[30] When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
[31] So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.


No one was looking for "summer". They were looking for the "kingdom of God".

 

[Zinc]

We don't know the date,however Christ just gave us the season....The good and bad figs had to return to Israel.....Before 1948 when was Israel last a nation?

The prediction was given for the first century:

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

 

[warfrog]

From the Luke version:

[29] And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
[30] When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
[31] So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.


No one was looking for "summer". They were looking for the "kingdom of God".

Yes and Jesus says when all these things happen, which He just spoke of all those things prior to the parable, He says it is near, even at the doors.
Those things have to take place and summer is near. His return is included in "all these things"

When they shoot forth, represents spring..when spring arrives, you know summer is coming right?
When all the things Jesus spoke of just before the parable take place represent spring, and His return was included, then you know that summer is near.

When those events take place it is almost time for the kingdom of God.

 

[Lehigh3]

warfrog,
every Christian realizes that Jesus said the kingdom of God was "at hand" when He came the 1st time. Every Christian knows that the kingdom of God has come!And the parable in Luke 21:29 of the fig tree is a continuation of the Olivet discourse the way Luke records it. There was no original chapter & verse- therefore, Luke 21 reads as follows (using the NKJV & try to ignore the verse markers) it's all 1 discourse (v5-36):

Read it as 1 continuous discourse. The "you" in "you see, etc." is audience relevant. Luke was not an apostle & was not a disciple yet when Jesus gave these admonitions. But the "you" is still directed at the 1st century audience of apostles & disciples that Jesus was addressing.
Luke 21:5-36

New King James Version (NKJV)

Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple


5 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 6 “These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.â€The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age


7 So they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?â€
8 And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them. 9 But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately.â€
10 Then He said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. 12 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 16 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 17 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. 18 But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 By your patience possess your souls.The Destruction of Jerusalem


20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.The Coming of the Son of Man


25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.â€The Parable of the Fig Tree


29 Then He spoke to them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. 30 When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.The Importance of Watching


34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand beforethe Son of Man.â€

Any questions?

 

[warfrog]

warfrog,
every Christian realizes that Jesus said the kingdom of God was "at hand" when He came the 1st time. Every Christian knows that the kingdom of God has come!And the parable in Luke 21:29 of the fig tree is a continuation of the Olivet discourse the way Luke records it. There was no original chapter & verse- therefore, Luke 21 reads as follows (using the NKJV & try to ignore the verse markers) it's all 1 discourse (v5-36):

Read it as 1 continuous discourse. The "you" in "you see, etc." is audience relevant. Luke was not an apostle & was not a disciple yet when Jesus gave these admonitions. But the "you" is still directed at the 1st century audience of apostles & disciples that Jesus was addressing.
Luke 21:5-36

New King James Version (NKJV)

Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple


5 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 6 “These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.”The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age


7 So they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?”
8 And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them. 9 But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately.”
10 Then He said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. 12 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 16 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 17 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. 18 But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 By your patience possess your souls.The Destruction of Jerusalem


20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.The Coming of the Son of Man


25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”The Parable of the Fig Tree


29 Then He spoke to them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. 30 When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.The Importance of Watching


34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Any questions?

Jesus was speaking to His bride, not Luke, not Mark, not Matthew, Jesus was speaking to Luke, Mark, Matthew, Peter, Paul and all who recieve the gaurentee through Him, the helper, the Holy Spirit, that is, the body of Christ, saints.

He just told them exactly what was going to happen to the body then, through time, and at His return when He would gather them all together.
He told them lastly of His return and then gives the parable of the fig tree where He tells them all these things will occur and then summer will be near, at the doors.

The kingdom is at hand, i am the kingdom of God, not of myself, through the body as the Holy Spirit manifested in me through Christ represents the kingdom, the kingdom isnt trees and houses, or food and drink, the kingdom is knowing God and our knowing of God is through the Helper that is within His as a gaurentee to that kingdom, the inheritance, in which there will be no more pain, sorrow, crying or death, no more sin, it is the arrival of summer, the end of a generation and the beggining of the new as the former things have passed away.

That is the parable of the fig tree, what Jesus spoke of just prior to it must take place, when He returns, just as you saw Him go up into heaven, He will return the same way and when He does, summer will be near even at the doors and when it arrives, that generation will pass away, heaven and earth will pass away, the former things will have passed away.

 

[Lehigh3]

by warfrog,

When those events take place it is almost time for the kingdom of God.

So let me get this right- you say that now the kingdom of God as the Holy Spirit is inside you therefore, you now say "the kingdom of God has come" spiritually.

Then you say those Olivet discourse, etc. events have to occur before the "kingdom of God" can come.

So therefore, you are saying that there are 2 kingdoms of God! One which is spiritual & "inside you" (which I say is the only one) And another which is physical- where the "no more tears" of Rev.21 which was about the Jews - actually applies to us modern day ppl PHYSICALLY!

You make the same mistake as the Jews of Jesus' day. They wanted a physical kingdom- freed politically from the Romans. And with that Jesus said "they missed their day of visitation." (Luke 19:40-44)

 

[warfrog]

by warfrog,
So let me get this right- you say that now the kingdom of God as the Holy Spirit is inside you therefore, you now say "the kingdom of God has come" spiritually.

Then you say those Olivet discourse, etc. events have to occur before the "kingdom of God" can come.

So therefore, you are saying that there are 2 kingdoms of God! One which is spiritual & "inside you" (which I say is the only one) And another which is physical- where the "no more tears" of Rev.21 which was about the Jews - actually applies to us modern day ppl PHYSICALLY!

You make the same mistake as the Jews of Jesus' day. They wanted a physical kingdom- freed politically from the Romans. And with that Jesus said "they missed their day of visitation." (Luke 19:40-44)

Indeed, there is no difference in both kingdoms, God is present.

How can their only be one if the kingdom you refer to is also referred as the promise and gaurentee to the other kingdom of redemption?

Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His

1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19
Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? . . . Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?

2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5
(God) Who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. . . . Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee

Ephesians 1:13, 14; 4:30
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. . . . And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption

So how can the sealing of the Holy Spirit be the only representation of the kingdom if it is a seal, a garauntee to the other?

They all represent the same thing, a saint now is in a corruptible flesh, a part of the kingdom through Christ having the Holy Spirit as a gaurentee that they will recieve the redemption, they are the kingdom because they will recieve the kingdom, the kingdom is present because the kingdom is within them, Holy Spirit.

Put it this way, a saint is likened to a man who recived a ticket to attend a concert from God in a few weeks time, the saint has the ticket and is attending, but have not actually seen the show, they are a part of the show because they have recieved the ticket from God and will attend.

The ticket is the Holy Spirit recieved through Christ, the concert is the kingdom of God.
The saint is attending the concert gaurenteed as the saint has a ticket from God.

 

[Lehigh3]

Indeed, there is no difference in both kingdoms, God is present.

How can their only be one if the kingdom you refer to is also referred as the promise and gaurentee to the other kingdom of redemption?

Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His

1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19
Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? . . . Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?

2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5
(God) Who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. . . . Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee

Ephesians 1:13, 14; 4:30
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. . . . And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption

So how can the sealing of the Holy Spirit be the only representation of the kingdom if it is a seal, a garauntee to the other?

They all represent the same thing, a saint now is in a corruptible flesh, a part of the kingdom through Christ having the Holy Spirit as a gaurentee that they will recieve the redemption, they are the kingdom because they will recieve the kingdom, the kingdom is present because the kingdom is within them, Holy Spirit.

Put it this way, a saint is likened to a man who recived a ticket to attend a concert from God in a few weeks time, the saint has the ticket and is attending, but have not actually seen the show, they are a part of the show because they have recieved the ticket from God and will attend.

The ticket is the Holy Spirit recieved through Christ, the concert is the kingdom of God.
The saint is attending the concert gaurenteed as the saint has a ticket from God.

The kingdom of God & the Holy Spirit are not the same. The Holy Spirit is a guarantee of eternal life after this present life. While "the kingdom of God" is present on earth as it is in heaven (ie: same as the kingdom of heaven)

2Cor.5:1-5 NKJV is where Paul refers to our state in the afterlife- nothing to do with Christ coming to earth! We go to Him, I'm positive of that.
Assurance of the Resurrection

1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

 

[warfrog]

The kingdom of God & the Holy Spirit are not the same. The Holy Spirit is a guarantee of eternal life after this present life. While "the kingdom of God" is present on earth as it is in heaven (ie: same as the kingdom of heaven)

2Cor.5:1-5 NKJV is where Paul refers to our state in the afterlife- nothing to do with Christ coming to earth! We go to Him, I'm positive of that.
Assurance of the Resurrection

1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

Yes they are the exact same, the Holy Spirit is what the saints are in the kingdom of God while in the corruptible, when they are raised in the gathering they are full of life, they are in fullness, knowing the fullness of God.
We have God now, we are a part of God as God is in His, we are in corruptible flesh awaiting our newness through Christ, not through the spirit but of the flesh, as Christ rose of new flesh so also shall all of His at His coming, gathered to Him and so shall we also remain forever and ever. Amen.

When corruptible inherits incorruptible and mortality puts on immortality we are complete awaiting the arrival of summer in which the former things have passed away and the generation has ended.

 

[Zinc]

His return is included in "all these things"

That is a hyper-literal reading of the text I would say. How about the author just expected the reader to exclude the final event from the "all these things"? That is, event X itself can't be a sign that event X is near, so logically the reader would just be expected to think only of preceding events?

Anyway, the final event in the list is linked with the coming of the kingdom:

Matt. 24:30 -- ... and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matt. 16:28 -- There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

 

[warfrog]

That is a hyper-literal reading of the text I would say. How about the author just expected the reader to exclude the final event from the "all these things"? That is, event X itself can't be a sign that event X is near, so logically the reader would just be expected to think only of preceding events?

Anyway, the final event in the list is linked with the coming of the kingdom:

Matt. 24:30 -- ... and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matt. 16:28 -- There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

i have no idea what you mean.

"all these things" means exactly that, all these things, not some of these things or this thing, its "all these things" I think that clears it up.
His return is part of "all these things"

If your telling me it doesnt mean what it says in scripture, is that because you dont want it too based on what you think the parable should mean? or is it what the Word is actually saying?

If your using Matt 16:28 as the same as Matt 24:30, thier not the same, 16:28 is about the Holy Spirit, as "some of them standing there" where Matt 24:30 is "all the tribes of the earth"

If Jesus would have told them "all of you standing here would not taste death", He would have been a liar, Judas was with Him and the disciples, Judas was to taste death as he did, thats why the Lord said "some of you standing here" when He spoke to His disciples, whom had the Holy Spirit poured upon them and do not taste death.

1 Thess 4:13-18.
"But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words"

1 Corinthians 6:14
14 And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power

(is that hyper-literalism or truth?) If such a thing occurs at His coming, why would people say "spiritual" when God did not "spiritually" raise Christ, but did so literally?

Matthew 28:6-7
"He is not here; for He is risen, as He said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. 7 And go quickly and tell His disciples that He is risen from the dead, and indeed He is going before you into Galilee; there you will see Him. Behold, I have told you."

That also spiritual? or hyper-literalism?

 

[Zinc]

i have no idea what you mean.

If you don't get it, and want to insist on a hyper-literal reading...

If your using Matt 16:28 as the same as Matt 24:30, thier not the same, 16:28 is about the Holy Spirit

Or the Transfiguration? Or the Ascension? Or the Resurrection? Lots of theories.

But the evidence is on the side of the verse speaking of the parousia.