FirstResurrectionRedo

[Hitch]

Rev 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
(KJV)

The purpose here is to show cause why the 'First Resurrection' is the regeneration (born-again) of the believer and not a Resurrection of the body.

The believer today meets all the requirements of the definition.

He is 'blessed and made holy '(II cor 5;21) because he is a partner in the Resurrection of Christ.This is how we become joint -heirs.


Pete refers to the Church as;


1 Pet 2:5
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
(KJV)

John of course concurs; (note the tense)

Rev 1:6
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
(KJV)

This 'priesthood' is entirely populated by those who 'overcome'. As Paul writes;


Rom 8:36-37
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
(KJV)


Conquerors and overcomers are translated from the same original word. Every christian is expected to be faithful even unto death, so being 'more than conquerors' is the status of all believers in Christ, whether events demonstrated this in life (martyerdom) or not. Every believer is passed from death unto life. And is securely covered under the Blood of Christ. This renders him free from the power of the 'second death' and allows him to' reign in life by one, Jesus Christ'.

Thus each requirement as lineated in v6 is already accomplished in the believer.


It is as important as it is common to refer to the born-again believer as being 'raised up,,formerly dead...


Eph 2:5-6
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Eph 2:1
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(KJV)

I Jn 3:14
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
(KJV)

The pattern here follows;
Num 19:11-12


11 He that toucheth the dead body of any man shall be unclean seven days.
12 He shall purify himself with it on the third day, and on the seventh day he shall be clean: but if he purify not himself the third day, then the seventh day he shall not be clean.
(KJV)


With our 'partnership' in the 'First Resurrection', which came on the Third day. we gain newness of life through the righteousness of Christ imputed judically. This is common to all believers and without it we cannot be seen as 'clean' on the seventh day (last day).

All must participate in the 'third day cleansing' or 'First Resurrection' . Every believer must have a part here. But not every believer will be raised bodily. By the same token every believer must be raised spiritually.

Of course Christ offered up His body as a Sacrfice and needed not to be raised in the spiritual sense, as we do. So His Resurrection does not require the second step. Thus for the believer, the First Resurrection is first in order and importance.

Take care

Hitch

 

[John 8:32]

Good luck with this heresy.

 

[MithrandirOlorin]

A Denial of the literal Resurrection of The Dead is a denial of the plain reading fo Scripture.

The Sadducees, contrary to popular assumption, where the greatest Enemies of the Early Church, not the Pharisees.

 

[Hitch]

A Denial of the literal Resurrection of The Dead is a denial of the plain reading fo Scripture.

The Sadducees, contrary to popular assumption, where the greatest Enemies of the Early Church, not the Pharisees.

Yawn nothing here denies 'literal Resurrection '.

 

[Hitch]

Good luck with this heresy.

Well J there are a dozen or so points brought up and supported with Scripture. What have you got?

 

[MithrandirOlorin]

The purpose here is to show cause why the 'First Resurrection' is the regeneration (born-again) of the believer and not a Resurrection of the body.

That's denying a Literal Resurrection.

 

[Hitch]

That's denying a Literal Resurrection.

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

You're no literalist M , as shown above there are passages teaching a bodily resurrection. You just refuse to believe what Jesus said about it.

 

[Elijah674]

This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[reba]

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:


Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

To repeat...

Eph 2:1
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

 

[MithrandirOlorin]

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

You're no literalist M , as shown above there are passages teaching a bodily resurrection. You just refuse to believe what Jesus said about it.

What? Do you have any Idea what my position is?

 

[Hitch]

What? Do you have any Idea what my position is?

Yes . Your position is contrary to what Jesus says, wrt the resurrection . But your position is not the focus of this thread.

 

[Elijah674]

Rev 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
(KJV)

The purpose here is to show cause why the 'First Resurrection' is the regeneration (born-again) of the believer and not a Resurrection of the body.

The believer today meets all the requirements of the definition.

He is 'blessed and made holy '(II cor 5;21) because he is a partner in the Resurrection of Christ.This is how we become joint -heirs.


Pete refers to the Church as;


1 Pet 2:5
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
(KJV)

John of course concurs; (note the tense)

Rev 1:6
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
(KJV)

This 'priesthood' is entirely populated by those who 'overcome'. As Paul writes;


Rom 8:36-37
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
(KJV)


Conquerors and overcomers are translated from the same original word. Every christian is expected to be faithful even unto death, so being 'more than conquerors' is the status of all believers in Christ, whether events demonstrated this in life (martyerdom) or not. Every believer is passed from death unto life. And is securely covered under the Blood of Christ. This renders him free from the power of the 'second death' and allows him to' reign in life by one, Jesus Christ'.

Thus each requirement as lineated in v6 is already accomplished in the believer.


It is as important as it is common to refer to the born-again believer as being 'raised up,,formerly dead...


Eph 2:5-6
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Eph 2:1
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(KJV)

I Jn 3:14
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
(KJV)

The pattern here follows;
Num 19:11-12


11 He that toucheth the dead body of any man shall be unclean seven days.
12 He shall purify himself with it on the third day, and on the seventh day he shall be clean: but if he purify not himself the third day, then the seventh day he shall not be clean.
(KJV)


With our 'partnership' in the 'First Resurrection', which came on the Third day. we gain newness of life through the righteousness of Christ imputed judically. This is common to all believers and without it we cannot be seen as 'clean' on the seventh day (last day).

All must participate in the 'third day cleansing' or 'First Resurrection' . Every believer must have a part here. But not every believer will be raised bodily. By the same token every believer must be raised spiritually.

Of course Christ offered up His body as a Sacrfice and needed not to be raised in the spiritual sense, as we do. So His Resurrection does not require the second step. Thus for the believer, the First Resurrection is first in order and importance.

Take care

Hitch

Love you young'in, but you need much !
You say:
'The purpose here is to show cause why the 'First Resurrection' is the regeneration (born-again) of the believer and not a Resurrection of the body.'

 

[thethinkingrebel]

I would say the "heresies" are no worse than the heresies traditionally believed by most christians..that also deny the resurrection, like....going to heaven when you die? Which means you dont ACTUALLY get resurrected..cos you never die...

I dont know if Hitch is right, but what if he is? I know that most of the so-called traditionalist doctrines are wrong and unbiblical..leave the lad to work it out, and for your own sakes dont just bawk at him, use scripture! If he is wrong there will be evidence within scripture!

 

[Hitch]

Love you young'in, but you need much !
You say:
'The purpose here is to show cause why the 'First Resurrection' is the regeneration (born-again) of the believer and not a Resurrection of the body.'

Well lets see, the Reformers / SDA,,, I'll take the Reformers.

 

[Hitch]

I would say the "heresies" are no worse than the heresies traditionally believed by most christians..that also deny the resurrection,

There is nothing here that denies the resurrection

like....going to heaven when you die? Which means you dont ACTUALLY get resurrected..cos you never die...

Nonsense , I doubt the martyrs agree:toofunny

I dont know if Hitch is right, but what if he is? I know that most of the so-called traditionalist doctrines are wrong and unbiblical..leave the lad () to work it out, and for your own sakes dont just bawk at him, use scripture! If he is wrong there will be evidence within scripture!

Now you're getting somewhere.

 

[Elijah674]

Well lets see, the Reformers / SDA,,, I'll take the Reformers.

You say that are one of them Rev. 17:1-5 ones then, huh??? Mother whore & her daughter ex/reformers!
Rev.17

[1] And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
[2] With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
[3] So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
[4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
[5] And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

--Elijah

PS: None of these ones come up in the FIRST RESURRECTION.

 

[jwf1024]

You quote, " I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

So 1) John sees the souls of those who were beheaded
2) They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years
3) This is the first resurrection.

The simple literal interpretation is "they lived" is "the first resurrection."

Your interpretation is not the simple literal interpretation.

 

[Hitch]

You quote, " I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

So 1) John sees the souls of those who were beheaded
2) They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years
3) This is the first resurrection.

The simple literal interpretation is "they lived" is "the first resurrection."

Your interpretation is not the simple literal interpretation.

Doesnt 'literal' resurrection require that the body be raised?

In your 'simple' view what does 'have passed from death unto life' mean?


What are 'lively stones' literally?

Tell me ,do you think John is actually referencing only those who were beheaded? You're a literalist right? I'll bet you are not .

 

[jwf1024]

This resurrection is at the second advent. The Bible says it is the "first resurrection." That means there was no resurrection 7 years previously so there was no pre-trib rapture. Similarly there was no mid-trib or pre-wrath rapture. Post-trib has to be true. This looks like rock solid evidence that post-trib is true.

I wonder if the original poster has a hidden agenda. He is trying to discredit this passage as evidence for posttribulationism and this is his best shot.

 

[Hitch]

This resurrection is at the second advent. The Bible says it is the "first resurrection." That means there was no resurrection 7 years previously so there was no pre-trib rapture. Similarly there was no mid-trib or pre-wrath rapture. Post-trib has to be true. This looks like rock solid evidence that post-trib is true.

I wonder if the original poster has a hidden agenda. He is trying to discredit this passage as evidence for posttribulationism and this is his best shot.

Pre-trib vs post -trib is like arguing wether Mexico is in Europe or Asia.