Flesh or sinful nature

[Wrg1405]

Romans 7:17-18 (NJKV)
But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

Romans 7:17-18 (NLT)
So I am not the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.
And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can’t.

So we find the Greek word 'sarx' is translated as flesh or nature.

I thought our sinful nature was crucified with Christ, it was circumcised when we came to beleive.

Is our nature which I think of as being our spirit/soul still sinful when we believe? If not was it really crucified with Christ, cut away?

What is it that's still in our flesh?

As a believer I hate everything I do that is contrary to nature of God but when I do it I'm confused.

So before God am I still sinful?

Hi hope my post makes sense. I think in a sense I'm saying the same as Paul, I know what is right and I know what is wrong and I hate doing wrong, but he seems to have something that I don't get. He has been st free and the sin within him is not committing the sin but the sin within him.

I is confused

 

[GodsGrace]

If you've accepted Christ, you are no longer sinful before God. God sees His Son, He doesn't see YOU anymore. What do you suppose it means to be saved? To be saved from the wrath of God, to be saved from the wiles of the devil, to be saved from separation of God after death.

We are born with the sin nature. It does not go away. We still have the sin nature after we become born again. How else could you explain why we continue to sin? What happens after salvation is that we get our "divinity" back. We get back that part of us that was together with God; friendly with Him and walking with Him, as Adam walked in the Garden of Eden with His creator.

But there is a change in the sin nature. It gets put under dominion. It becomes subject to our will. Sin used to rule our lives. We WERE sin - we didn't even need to commit a sin. God saw us as sin. Now the sin nature is under subjection to the Lord. It no longer rules us.

So, if it's under submission why do we sin? Exactly because we still have this nature and it will never be fully ruled until we get our glorified bodies. So we sin THROUGH the flesh, by the sin nature. The sin nature works through the flesh.

So, you are still "sinful" but not the same way as a non believer. We are sinful because we will always sin. Anyone who says they don't sin is lying. A non-believer, instead, is sinful because he belongs to satan - satan rules his life - he has no one to save him; we have Jesus to save us.

Just remember that when God looks at YOU, He sees His Son. You are wearing Christ.
This is all biblical. If necessary, I can give you the scriptures.

Be secure in the Lord Jesus.

Wondering

 

[Wrg1405]

Just remember that when God looks at YOU, He sees His Son. You are wearing Christ.

Why does he not see me? Why does he not see the Bill he created from the beginning of time? I'm his son as well.

Ok that's younger/older sibling syndrome and it does exist. I do have scripture that Jesus himself said "May they know that you love them as much as you love me"

This blows my mind and I have to be honest don't fully get it.

I also know a lot of people who don't get it.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Why does he not see me? Why does he not see the Bill he created from the beginning of time? I'm his son as well.

Ok that's younger/older sibling syndrome and it does exist. I do have scripture that Jesus himself said "May they know that you love them as much as you love me"

This blows my mind and I have to be honest don't fully get it.

I also know a lot of people who don't get it.

Why not just accept it through faith?

 

[Wrg1405]

Why not just accept it through faith?

Accept what through faith?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Accept what through faith?

You are looking for answers.
I say "why not just accept through faith what you don't have answers for?
"Why does he not see me"?
Of course he sees you and answers you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Why does he not see me? Why does he not see the Bill he created from the beginning of time? I'm his son as well.

Ok that's younger/older sibling syndrome and it does exist. I do have scripture that Jesus himself said "May they know that you love them as much as you love me"

This blows my mind and I have to be honest don't fully get it.

I also know a lot of people who don't get it.

If God saw only you, he would see the sin in you. God sees that you love and trust His Son. He loves those that love his Son. Do you have kids? Do you like a person better who does NOT like a son of yours, or do you like a person better who likes your son? It's the same thing.

Putting on Christ. See:
Romans 13.14
Galatians 3:27
Also read. Mathew 22:1-13

What do you think the reason is that some were thrown out of the Wedding Banquet?

Also, read Galatians 2:19-21

Then you say this:
May they know that you love them as much as you love me"

God loves you as much as He loves His Son because you love His Son. It's a circle. Don't make it more complicated than it is. It's SIMPLE!

If I love YOUR son and treat him well, YOU love me!

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

You are looking for answers.
I say "why not just accept through faith what you don't have answers for?
"Why does he not see me"?
Of course he sees you and answers you.

You say this Rollo because you already understand and are able to accept by faith.

Wrg is seeking to understand his faith better.
We were all where he is now at one time...

W

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

You say this Rollo because you already understand and are able to accept by faith.

Wrg is seeking to understand his faith better.
We were all where he is now at one time...

W

It is by grace you were saved through faith.
It starts and ends there.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

You say this Rollo because you already understand and are able to accept by faith.

Wrg is seeking to understand his faith better.
We were all where he is now at one time...

W

Oh, so now Rollo is the big bad guy.
Add another one to the list.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is by grace you were saved through faith.
It starts and ends there.

You're right. It's the all-important teaching we have.
The only one necessary.
But it's a journey we're on, and questions do come up.

 

[Wrg1405]

If God saw only you, he would see the sin in you. God sees that you love and trust His Son. He loves those that love his Son. Do you have kids? Do you like a person better who does NOT like a son of yours, or do you like a person better who likes your son? It's the same thing.

For God loved the world he gave his only Son, so that those who beleive in him will never perish but have eternal life.

To me God loves every being he has created, not because they beleive in Jesus. If he loves only those that beleive in his son then surely the Gospel is lost.

 

[ezrider]

Why does he not see me? Why does he not see the Bill he created from the beginning of time? I'm his son as well.

Ok that's younger/older sibling syndrome and it does exist. I do have scripture that Jesus himself said "May they know that you love them as much as you love me"

This blows my mind and I have to be honest don't fully get it.

I also know a lot of people who don't get it.

The Lord sees you. You may be hidden in Christ, but that does not mean you are hidden from the Lord, but Christ in you is hidden from the world.

The issue is not about whether we sin or not, for as long as we remain in this flesh body we will continue to sin in some manner, for the flesh itself is sin. The answer of the cross was not that we would cease from sin, but rather the answer of a clear conscience before the Lord. It was not act of sin that was put to death by the cross, but the dominion of the law. It was and is the law that gives power to sin, and the carnal mind remains susceptible to the bondage of sin under the law. But the new covenant is not bound to the flesh, nor is it carnal, for through the death of Christ on the cross sin was condemned in the flesh. The new covenant of Christ is under the dominion of the Spirit of the Lord where you are under the Grace of the Lord: dead to the Law, alive to the Spirit.

If you are constantly concerned with sin in the flesh, whether they be your sins or the sins of another, then you are carnally minded and under the dominion of the Law. But we are called to walk according to the Spirit.

Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

For God loved the world he gave his only Son, so that those who beleive in him will never perish but have eternal life.

To me God loves every being he has created, not because they beleive in Jesus. If he loves only those that beleive in his son then surely the Gospel is lost.

You're right Wrg.
God loves His whole creation. He loves every single person he created. We are His creatures.
BUT does that mean we'll all end up with Him?
No.
We must choose with whom we want to spend eternity. With God or with the enemy. We'll spend eternity with the one we serve here on earth.

So, yes, God loves everyone, but we need to love Him back. It's our loving Him back that permits us to go be with Him.

W

 

[Wrg1405]

for the flesh itself is sin

But what about my nature?

 

[ezrider]

But what about my nature?

Which one? You have a carnal nature, which is of our flesh, and then we have our Spiritual nature through the resurrection of Christ. The question is which one leads you?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Which one? You have a carnal nature, which is of our flesh, and then we have our Spiritual nature through the resurrection of Christ. The question is which one leads you?

I disagree.
OSAS.
If you have the spiritual nature through the resurrection of Christ, it rules.

 

[smaller]

Romans 7:17-18 (NJKV)
But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

Romans 7:17-18 (NLT)
So I am not the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.
And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can’t.

So we find the Greek word 'sarx' is translated as flesh or nature.

I thought our sinful nature was crucified with Christ, it was circumcised when we came to beleive.

It is a position of faith, but not of reality. The yet to arrive reality of not having the built in conflict with our flesh is part of the promise of the Gospel. Phil. 3:21. However, in the meantime, the reality of Romans 7 as you cited and Gal. 5:17 firmly applies.

If we see that sin is of the devil 1 John 3:8, as scriptures represent (Mark 4:15), we know why it is not us (our just our flesh) involved. The flesh is subject to an intruder that is not us. Not every thought is our own. This is precisely why we are to take every thought captive and to make such submit in obedience. 2 Cor. 10:5. If not such thoughts of the flesh capture and control us, as sin indwelling the flesh is always apt to do.

Is our nature which I think of as being our spirit/soul still sinful when we believe? If not was it really crucified with Christ, cut away?

If Christ is in us we are to understand that "the body is dead" because of sin and it's lustful deceptive activity in the flesh, which again is demonically sourced. Romans 8:10, Col. 3:3

What is it that's still in our flesh?

Sin is not material or forensic. It is demonic and of an anti-Christ spiritual working in the flesh in the forms of temptations, deceptions and innumerable lusts. Acts 26:18, Eph. 2:2, Eph. 6:11-12.

As a believer I hate everything I do that is contrary to nature of God but when I do it I'm confused.

The conflict that Paul identifies in Gal. 5:17 is quite real.

So before God am I still sinful?

Look at yourself and your flesh like Paul looked at his own. 2 Cor. 12:7. You might understand that our own flesh is attached to our spiritual adversaries.

Hi hope my post makes sense. I think in a sense I'm saying the same as Paul, I know what is right and I know what is wrong and I hate doing wrong, but he seems to have something that I don't get. He has been st free and the sin within him is not committing the sin but the sin within him.

I is confused

Paul said evil was present with him. Romans 7:21. That evil isn't going to change it's stripes based on our choices or actions. It's going to resist the things of God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Which one? You have a carnal nature, which is of our flesh, and then we have our Spiritual nature through the resurrection of Christ. The question is which one leads you?

If your carnal nature is leading you, you're not born again.
We have only ONE nature. The Sin Nature. It is either under submission or it is not.

If you believe we have two natures, please provide scripture since I've never heard of this concept.

W

 

[ezrider]

If your carnal nature is leading you, you're not born again.
We have only ONE nature. The Sin Nature. It is either under submission or it is not.

If you believe we have two natures, please provide scripture since I've never heard of this concept.

W

Are you saying that all those fine Christians that hang out in the Current Events and Politics forum commenting all day long consumed with the cares of this world, who speak evil of dignitaries and despise government; are you saying that that are not born again?