Flesh or sinful nature

[Jethro Bodine]

Ok,

A person is saved by the blood atonement, by hearing the Gospel and believing it, and God saves them.
God saves them.....they dont save themselves....
Is this completed or not?
True?
If not is your answer, or if your answer is....."yes, but then i have to DO".....then you have "fallen from grace", because you are tying to add something YOU DO< to keep yourself saved, instead of trusting what God Thru CHRIST ALREADY PROVIDED that already saved you once you were saved.

see it?

It's funny how you keep adding works to my argument that justification is secured through faith, period.
In all my years of being a born again Christian, I have only personally known about maybe two people who believed that justification (being made righteous before God) was by doing righteous work. It's hardly a problem in the Protestant church. Hyper-grace is by far the false doctrine that is destroying the church. But I don't see any threads about that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The truth is Wondering there are an awful lot of people who do worry about losing their salvation and then try to take matters into their own hands and work for their salvation, rather than work because of their salvation. Worrying is not the work the results of it are.

A person who is slipping from his believing in the blood of Christ should be very much concerned about his justification.

 

[GodsGrace]

A person who is slipping from his believing in the blood of Christ should be very much concerned about his justification.

Isn't this a contradiction in terms Jethro?
IF I'm worried about losing my salvation, doesn't that mean I'm still saved?

People that are lost or becoming lost, don't seem to be too interested in worrying about losing their salvation.

Wondering

 

[Kidron]

It's funny how you keep adding works to my argument that justification is secured through faith, period.
In all my years of being a born again Christian, I have only personally known about maybe two people who believed that justification (being made righteous before God) was by doing righteous work. It's hardly a problem in the Protestant church. Hyper-grace is by far the false doctrine that is destroying the church. But I don't see any threads about that.

-
You told me that as long as you strive and continue by effort to hold unto your faith so that you dont let it go and are thereby lost and on your way to hell, .....is how you keep yourself saved, so you said many many times.
Have you changed your theology?
If you have, and are now trusting in Jesus to keep you saved and have stopped trusting in your effort to keep believing whatever it is you think you need to keep working to believe to try to keep yourself saved, then i am very happy to hear it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Isn't this a contradiction in terms Jethro?
IF I'm worried about losing my salvation, doesn't that mean I'm still saved?

It's funny, but I was going to address that in my post. I was going to say, 'if you still care that you're losing your faith'.
I believe there are people who can still be concerned that they are slipping from their faith that Jesus and the gospel are real. I think that because of what the author of Hebrews said:

"15See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled; 16that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. 17For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears." (Hebrews 12:15-17 NASB italics in original)

The tears of Esau illustrate the weeping and gnashing of teeth of those who see themselves cast out of the kingdom while others enter in. Does this only illustrate that happening at the end of the age? Don't know for sure.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You told me that as long as you strive and continue by effort to hold unto your faith so that you dont let it go and are thereby lost and on your way to hell, .....is how you keep yourself saved, so you said many many times.

How is believing the work that Paul said can not justify?

If you have, and are now trusting in Jesus to keep you saved

How do I access the sure power of Jesus to keep me saved?

 

[smaller]

I've grasped the concept really well. I've said before that you're not the only one to understand this.

But here's what you do. You don't really answer me. You just go on about what YOU believe.

I'm pretty sure I apply specific critique of positions when I respond with alternatives. And most of the time because I've held such beliefs prior and upgraded.

Back in post no. 117 I asked you to please explain what you understand Hebrews 12:25 to be saying.
You posted it again in no. 120 but didn't really explain it.

Scripture is self explanatory in every case. If Hebrews 12:25 says people don't escape God and believers even less so, there is little use in trying to say otherwise is there? And that's exactly what it says. People of Israel who were led out of Egypt saw all kinds of signs and miracles/wonders. Presumably because of that they believed. I mean how could anyone NOT after all of that. Yet all but 2 over the age of 20 DIED in the desert because of UNbelief. Did they escape? No. Do we? No. God in Christ can be harshER to believers than to others. It comes with the territory.

I also gave an example that no one escapes Divine Judgments at the end. You more than likely accept that no one escapes either. It's not like there is a big difference.

Scripture also tells us that God is not mocked, we reap what we sow. Do we see some kind of "escape" via freewill there? Not that I can see. I also don't buy people excusing their sins because they are believers or thinking they're sinless or that God is some kind of a double dealer when it comes to the sins of believers compared to the sins of others.

Paul gives a lot of difficult statements regarding these matters. Here are two scriptures that Paul gave us and I believe he accepts both statements PERSONALLY:

Romans 2:9
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Romans 7:
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.