For Christians Only

[Lewis]

This is for Christians only, thank you.
Many on this board, in the past and present, believe that you don't have to sow into the kingdom of God to be blessed, many here and elsewhere believe, that prosperity teaching is wrong. Many here also believe that, a pastor should not ask for money, and if your pastor asks you to, sow a 100 dollar seed, it is the work of the devil. Many here believe that if your pastor tells you, that if you sow a 100 dollar seed, you will be blessed, more than you can imagine, is the work of the devil. So what do you say ?

What Does the Bible Say About Giving to the Church?

The Bible addresses giving to the church multiple times in both the Old and the New Testaments. God expects His people to give to the church, and then God will bless them for their obedience. The Bible says that those who give generously will be blessed generously. The Bible also says that God cares more about our attitudes toward giving to the church than He does about the actual amount that we give.

History
1. The concept of giving to the church goes all the way back to Abraham, who was the founding father of the Jewish faith, and, by extension, the Christian faith as well. Genesis 14:18-20 records Abraham giving a tenth of all he had to Melchizedek, who was both the king of Salem and priest of "God Most High." The only other person referred to as both king and priest in the Bible is Jesus. See Hebrews 6:19-20.
Size
2. The Bible says that God is more concerned about our hearts than the amount of money that we give to the church. In Mark 12:41-44, Jesus noted that a widow who gave only two very small copper coins actually gave more to the church than the wealthy people who gave more monetarily because the widow gave out of her poverty rather than her wealth. However, the Bible says in Act 5:1-10 that God was not pleased with Ananias, who gave a lot of money to the church but lied about it being all he had.
Considerations
3. The Bible says that God wants us to "sow generously," and He does not want us to give to the church grudgingly. According to II Corinthians 9:6-8, "God loves a cheerful giver." God wants us to give to the church what we have decided in our hearts. He does not want us to give "reluctantly or under compulsion." However, the Bible reminds us that those who give generously will also reap generously. See II Corinthians 9:6-8.
Warning
4. God sees failing to give to the church as "robbing" God. The Bible addresses this issue in Malachi 3:8-9. The Bible says that the failure to give full tithes (a tenth of your increase) and offerings (a "gift" to God in appreciation for what He has done for you) to the church is the equivalent of "robbing" God. As a result, the entire nation was under a "curse." God wants there to be "food in my house." (Malachi 3:10)
Benefits
5. In Malachi 3:10, the Bible follows up God's warning not to "rob" Him with the benefits of giving the full tithes and offerings to the church. The Bible says that God will richly bless us for giving to the church. In Malachi 3:10, the Bible encourages us to "test" God on his promise to "throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it."

http://www.ehow.com/about_4577692_does- ... hurch.html

 

[jasoncran]

tithing is good, however we shouldn do it for a blessing but to bless the lord and so that the lord can use it for his glory.

god does, however, return the blessing but it isnt always in dinero.

 

[Mike]

I have come to believe God gave us tithing to gift us. It is a way for us to, in our hearts, release the stranglehold money can have on us. When we are able to give willingly, money has less of a hold over us, and we are no longer a prisoner to wealth. I can give a personal testimony to this work in my heart, but people need to experience this gift on their own to truly embrace it, otherwise it seems folly.

I feel we were tested personally 15 years ago when I was laid off from a job with no warning. My immediate response regrettably was to worry and fret. Something within me moved me to declare to take a step of faith. So, we increased our giving in spite of the circumstances we were in. I'm far from a "claim it" Christian, and I shutter when I hear a minister say "The Lord says give an X amount", but I can only say that God did indeed provide. We were blessed abundantly afterword. Even more than the blessings that followed was the immediate peace we were given; an overwhelming sense of His Peace.

There is joy in giving, but there is something special about releasing the white-knuckled grip on what you have, opening your hand and allowing to be taken out of it that what you believe is yours. God be praised!

 

[Pard]

I believe in tithing, though it's hard to tithe without a job! I do give money when I can. I also believe that tithing goes beyond simply giving money. In the OT tithing was 10%, not of money, but of crops (see: manual labor!). I try to help around church whenever I can. This summer I plan on working around the church and doing things for the church. To me this is tithing because I am giving what I have to give, manual labor (in fact I will be giving nearly 100% of my manual labor, since I don't plan on doing much work else where!!!)

Tithing is a two way street, we give because we want to, because we love the Lord. The Lord gives back to us many times over because He also loves us.

Atheists write it up as a scheme or conspiracy by the church, in that case, so is donating to the Red Cross...

 

[Lewis]

You can't beat the Lord giving. When you give from the heart God will give you more than what you gave, because you gave it from your heart.

 

[Timothy]

I believe God blesses the tither, but that blessing may not always be wealth. I don't believe you can tithe and claim what you want in return, giving to get is not really giving from the heart. It's seeking it's reward here on earth. I think if you give out of an overflow of your heart you will be blessed but that has many meanings.

There's a very large church, some 5000 to 8000 strong where i am that every time they take offerings they chant "believing God" for "raises and bonuses, jobs and better jobs, gifts of money, and found money". God can bless with money. But I don't think He always does, it's not a rule He has to follow. There is lessons to be learned through trial. James says so even going as far as to say to count it pure joy when facing various trials. It goes on to expound on that saying it develops perseverance which must complete its work so that we may be mature.

It's frightening to face monetary problems. But where fear exists love does not. Perfect love casts out fear. Faith replaces that, but like everything it takes steps to learn. Crawl before you can walk and all that.

I think in some ways we are too caught up on pleasantries believing somehow trouble will pass us by being christians and all. Truth is, a walk of faith often attracts trouble. There are those in spiritual realms that would rather keep us in a state without faith. just my

 

[Mysteryman]

Lay up treasures in heaven, not here upon this earth.

Work with your hands, the things that are good, so that you may give to those who have need. So that there is equality.

You don't and can not buy God !

You do not give on this earth, to receive earthly possessions.

The book of Malachi is not written unto the Church. It was written unto the levite priests - Malachi 2:1

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

2Cr 9:6 ¶ But this [I say], He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Cr 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, [so let him give]; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
2Cr 9:8 And God [is] able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all [things], may abound to every good work:

If giving is not done from the abundance of the heart and in faith it is good for nothing. In Christ Jesus we are not under the law of a % tithe. That is a cop out to the flesh in two ways. 1) a person can give 10% and feel the rest is there's, when in truth all we have we should account as the Lords and we should walk by faith in what we beleive he wants us to do with what He has provided for us. and 2) it gives those who think they should get the money a handle to control the beleivers giving from so that they themselves do not need walk in faith that God will provide for them as He wants them to recieve this gives them a way to control their people and not have to walk in faith for it.

Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

There is no scriptural example of a preacher telling people " give 100 dollars and you will be blessed".- We are all blessed when we give from the abundance of our hearts. those who sow sparingly readl sparingly. But what is sparingly for one may be richly for another. For a preacher to assume that 100 dollars will bring a great blessing is completely innaccurate. At the same time he may be speaking to a woman with a widows mite who can give 1 dollar and it is the wealth of all she has and also a millionare who 100 dollars is like the price of a cookie. Will they both reap greatly for that 100 dollars? Not at all. On top of that we all have what the Lord has given to us now how many people hear those preachers say give 100 give 1000 and you will be blessed. And they are sitting in their life not having seen 100 dollars in their hand at one time in years and now they believe this is not for them, they have missed their blessing.

Now I do not have a problem with preachers asking for money although i think that in most cases it is better if they are asking for money for others annd not themselves as they should walk in faith for God to provide for them.But when they preach over and over about it it comes from lack of faith or greed. And whenever they preach an amount that is required and put Gods people under a lww about it that we do not have then they are really getting in hot water.

 

[jasoncran]

is it biblical for the pastor to be paid. paul spoke on this.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

is it biblical for the pastor to be paid. paul spoke on this.

sure it is, but the question becomes how is he getting paid?

 

[Adullam]

A full time kingdom worker should receive support not a salary. He only takes what he needs...not wants. The worldly system has infiltrated everything the church does these days. A minister should take the LEAST amount possible.

If a minister wants more than the basic minimum...then he should work with his hands for the extra amount. It is better if he is content with the church support.

I am such a full time worker who receives simple support. I am very blessed by the Lord and my family is well looked after.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

A full time kingdom worker should receive support not a salary. He only takes what he needs...not wants. The worldly system has infiltrated everything the church does these days. A minister should take the LEAST amount possible.

If a minister wants more than the basic minimum...then he should work with his hands for the extra amount. It is better if he is content with the church support.

I am such a full time worker who receives simple support. I am very blessed by the Lord and my family is well looked after.

Amen!

I think it should also be added that money that is given to the church is meant for those whose full time work for God is ministry but it is also meant to be used for the saints!

So many, even most churches these days take in " tithes" and they pay the bills, build bigger buildings, buy the pastor much more than he needs but when the saints in the church cant pay their bills there is no help in sight from their church. That money is too be collected for all that is needed and that includes the saints who are in need and the widows and orphans etc... Paul collected from richer saints to give to the poorer saints etc...

 

[GaryArnold]

Giving, yes. Tithing, no. Tithing is one of the most understood topics in the Bible.

The first time tithe is mentioned in the Bible is Abraham's tithe of pagan spoils of war, and Abraham kept NOTHING for himself. This was NOT an act of worship. The goods that Abraham gave the tenth from didn’t even belong to Abraham:

Genesis 14:21 (NIV) - The king of Sodom said to Abram, “Give me the people and keep the goods for yourself.â€

Notice in verse 21 the king of Sodom didn’t ask Abraham if he would give back to him the people, but rather said GIVE ME the people and keep the goods for yourself. The way that is worded indicates that the king of Sodom was claiming that the people and the goods belonged to him and those he represented.

Genesis 14:22-24 (NIV) - 22But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “I have raised my hand to the LORD, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth, and have taken an oath 23that I will accept nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or the thong of a sandal, so that you will never be able to say, ‘I made Abram rich.’ 24I will accept nothing but what my men have eaten and the share that belongs to the men who went with me—to Aner, Eshcol and Mamre. Let them have their share.â€

Notice in verses 23 and 24 Abraham also acknowledges that the goods belonged to the king of Sodom and those he represented.

Therefore, it is clear that both the king of Sodom and Abraham acknowledged that the spoils of war did NOT belong to Abraham, yet he gave a tenth of the spoils to King Melchizedek. This would seem that Abraham did something wrong, if not even illegal, but Biblical historians agree that it was custom in Abraham's day to give the king a tenth of the war spoils. Had Abraham not given the tenth, he would have gone against custom.

Conclusion: Abraham did NOT give a tenth of his income, or his wealth. Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils of war that didn’t belong to him. That is NOT an example for Christians to follow today.

The next mention of a tithe is Jacob's VOW to tithe. Jacob set the conditions, not God. Nowhere in The Word does it tell us that Jacob actually tithed. Genesis 28:10-22

Next is The Lord's Tithe. God gave His definition as a tenth of crops and animals which came from God's hand, not man's income. God NEVER commanded anyone to tithe on anything that man made or earned. Leviticus 27:30-33.

The ordinances (instructions, or laws) for The Lord's Tithe are in Numbers 18. God gave strict orders to take His tithe to the Levites. God NEVER changed that command. Anyone who takes God's tithe to anyone other than the Levites is being disobedient to God's Word.

There are others tithes in the Bible such as the Festival Tithe and the Tithe for the Poor. It is The Lord's Tithe that churches pattern their teaching after.

Church leaders ignore God's definition of His tithe, and ignore God's ordinances for His tithe. They change the words to fit their pocket book. This is nothing but manipulation of God's Word. They are false teachers.

The Bible CLEARLY SHOWS that the tithe ENDED at the cross in the Book of Hebrews. In the first nine verses of Hebrews 7 the words tenth or tithes appears SEVEN TIMES. The ONLY place in the Bible, after Calvary, that tithing appears is in Hebrews 7.

In Hebrews 7:5 we are told that Levi (the Levites) took the tithes under the law. In Hebrews 7:12 we are told that when the priesthood changes, the law will change. Hebrews 7:18 is telling us that Numbers 18 was disannulled. Numbers 18 established the Levitical priesthood, and part of that establishing included tithing. When the Levitical priesthood ended (at Calvary, or at least in the year 70AD when the temple was destroyed), all laws that established that priesthood were canceled. If Numbers 18 wasn't canceled, we would still be under the Levitical priesthood.

Those who argue they didn't have money or income then really need to study the scriptures. They had money and wages, even in Genesis. The farmers had income from barter exchanges, and they had markets to buy and sell as proven in Deuteronomy 14:24-26.

Those who argue Malachi 3:8, robbing God, need to start with verse 7. God is talking about His ordinances in Numbers 18 which we learned were disannulled according to Hebrews 7:18. Also, if you start with Malachi 1, you will see that God is speaking to the priests, not the people. The priests robbed God of the tithe (Nehemiah 13) and the priests robbed God of the offerings (Malachi 1).

 

[Lewis]

Bible Verses about Paying The Pastor


1 Timothy 5:17-18 ESV /

Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,†and, “The laborer deserves his wages.â€

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Acts 3:1-26 ESV /

Now Peter and John were going up to the temple at the hour of prayer, the ninth hour. And a man lame from birth was being carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple that is called the Beautiful Gate to ask alms of those entering the temple. Seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple, he asked to receive alms. And Peter directed his gaze at him, as did John, and said, “Look at us.†And he fixed his attention on them, expecting to receive something from them. ...

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Acts 4:32-35 ESV /

Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.

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Luke 12:33 ESV /

Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys.

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Matthew 6:24 ESV /

“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

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1 John 4:1 ESV /

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

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Acts 20:29 ESV /

I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;

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Luke 24:22 ESV /

Moreover, some women of our company amazed us. They were at the tomb early in the morning,

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Luke 1:1-80 ESV /

Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the things that have been accomplished among us, just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word have delivered them to us, it seemed good to me also, having followed all things closely for some time past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, that you may have certainty concerning the things you have been taught. In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zechariah, of the division of Abijah. And he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. ...

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Mark 16:9-20 ESV /

[[Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons. She went and told those who had been with him, as they mourned and wept. But when they heard that he was alive and had been seen by her, they would not believe it. After these things he appeared in another form to two of them, as they were walking into the country. And they went back and told the rest, but they did not believe them. ...

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Matthew 23:15 ESV /

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

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Matthew 16:18 ESV /

And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

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Matthew 7:15 ESV /

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

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Malachi 3:1-18 ESV /

“Behold, I send my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me. And the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant in whom you delight, behold, he is coming, says the Lord of hosts. But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap. He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, and they will bring offerings in righteousness to the Lord. Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the Lord as in the days of old and as in former years. “Then I will draw near to you for judgment. I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, against the adulterers, against those who swear falsely, against those who oppress the hired worker in his wages, the widow and the fatherless, against those who thrust aside the sojourner, and do not fear me, says the Lord of hosts. ...

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Daniel 12:1-3 ESV /

“At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.

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Isaiah 59:1-2 ESV /

Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save, or his ear dull, that it cannot hear; but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear.

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Proverbs 19:17 ESV /

Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.

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Job 33:22 ESV /

His soul draws near the pit, and his life to those who bring death.

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Deuteronomy 14:22-29 ESV /

“You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year. And before the Lord your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the Lord your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the Lord your God chooses, to set his name there, then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household. ...

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Genesis 1:1 ESV /

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

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Revelation 21:8 ESV /

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.â€

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Revelation 21:1-27 ESV

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.†And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.†Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.†...

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Jude 1:6 ESV /

And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—

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1 Peter 3:18 ESV /

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

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James 1:22 ESV /

But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

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2 Timothy 2:15 ESV /

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

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1 Corinthians 15:3-4 ESV /

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,

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Romans 11:33 ESV /

Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!

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Acts 2:38 ESV /

And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

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Acts 2:1-47 ESV /

When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. ...


John 8:44 ESV /

You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

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John 5:24 ESV /

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

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John 4:24 ESV /

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.â€

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John 1:1 ESV /

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

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Luke 23:43 ESV /

And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.â€

Luke 16:19 ESV /

“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day.

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Luke 14:12-14 ESV /

He said also to the man who had invited him, “When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.â€
http://www.openbible.info/topics/paying_the_pastor

 

[Vic C.]

I did a study on what Jesus taught about sowing. He was not referring to money. Here's what He said:

Mat 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Mat 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Mat 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

The seed that is sewn is the Word of God.

Mark explains it further:

Mark 4:13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
Mark 4:14 The sower soweth the word.

Bringing forth fruit is akin to leading souls to the Lord.

Luke nails it:

Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

John also tells us the Word is... Jesus!

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[Nick]

A full time kingdom worker should receive support not a salary. He only takes what he needs...not wants. The worldly system has infiltrated everything the church does these days. A minister should take the LEAST amount possible.

If a minister wants more than the basic minimum...then he should work with his hands for the extra amount. It is better if he is content with the church support.

I am such a full time worker who receives simple support. I am very blessed by the Lord and my family is well looked after.

As far as I know, the ministers at our church get paid a salary. But it is at or even below the average Australian salary by a good deal, so it's not much. But they all seem more than content. Money is absolutely not everything, that is clear. :amen