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For God SO LOVES the Entire Human Race...

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“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” (3:16-17)

The main purpose of the study, is to see what Jesus Christ means when He says, “for God so loved the world”. Are we to take these words in their natural meaning, which was so understood for the first three and a half centuries of the Church, and by the leading Greek lexical works, “the whole human race”; or, as some suppose, who claim to follow the teachings of John Calvin, that Jesus here means only “the elect”? I say “natural meaning”, because this is how the Church, till the time of St Augustine in the 4th century, understood Jesus to mean, and apart from the “Calvinists”, is how the rest of Christendom also understand the Jesus’ words. In fact, John Calvin’s own comments on this verse, are very clear to those who are open to the truth, that he could not have believed that Jesus’ use of “world” here, was in any way limited to “the elect”. Here is what Calvin says:

That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life” (emphasis mine)

Now, almost all who read these words of Calvin, will have no doubt in their minds, that he could not have understood the passage in John, to meaning anything, but applicable to “the entire human race”, which is very clear from the “universalistic” language that he employs. I say, “almost all”, because there are some “Calvinists”, who are more interested in preserving their “theology”, than accepting that their own “leader” proves that they are wrong! But, let us not stop at Calvin’s comments on John 3:16. Here his own words on John 1:29;

Who taketh away the sin of the world. He uses the word sin in the singular number, for any kind of iniquity; as if he had said, that every kind of unrighteousness which alienates men from God is taken away by Christ. And when he says, the sin Of The World, he extends this favor indiscriminately to the whole human race; that the Jews might not think that he had been sent to them alone. But hence we infer that the whole world is involved in the same condemnation; and that as all men without exception are guilty of unrighteousness before God, they need to be reconciled to him. John the Baptist, therefore, by speaking generally of the sin of the world, intended to impress upon us the conviction of our own misery, and to exhort us to seek the remedy. Now our duty is, to embrace the benefit which is offered to all, that each of us may be convinced that there is nothing to hinder him from obtaining reconciliation in Christ, provided that he comes to him by the guidance of faith.”

Then we have Romans 5:18;

“He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God's benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him”

Here Calvin clearly says that Christ’s suffering for “the whole world” is “offered…to ALL”, but the “ALL” of the “human race” do not receive this gift from the Lord. Nothing could be plainer of the Universal Atonement as taught by Calvin.

Commenting on Mark 14:24, where Jesus says that His death is a “ransom for many”. Calvin says:

Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race

If, as the “Calvinists” teach, that they get their “limited atonement” from John Calvin, then they are clearly deluded! Here is a text that Jesus says that He died for “many”, and yet, you would have expected Calvin to have said, “only for a part”. But in fact, he says that it does not mean this, but Jesus’ words mean, “the whole human race”! I expect there are still those who will hold on to their lies about this doctrine and what Calvin actually taught. The context here includes Judas!

Let us put John 3:16 in to its context, and see if this can indeed be used for the “elect only”. In verses 16 and 17, we find the word "kosmos" used four times, which, as we shall see, when taken together, shall tell us the true meaning of " kosmos " in verse 16.

In verse 17 John says: "For God sent not His Son into the world...", where "kosmos " would no doubt refer to the" earth", as a place. He then goes on to say: "to condemn the world...", which cannot only refer to "the elect", and not to the entire human race. Or else, we must conclude that the rest of mankind (non-elect), will not be judged! What John is here saying, is, that at His first coming, Jesus did not come as the Judge of mankind, but as its Saviour. When He shall come the second time, it will not be to save people from their sins ( as it will be too late), but to Judge the world in righteousness. But, to limit "kosmos" to the elect only, would teach that it was only them whom Christ is coming to Judge! He will "condemn" the world, but not yet. We then read: "but that the world through Him might be saved". Again, if we are to limit "kosmos" to the elect, this part of the text goes against the teaching, that the elect can never lose their salvation. Here, we have the Greek word "sothe" (saved), which is in the subjunctive mood (might), and not the indicative. The former mood is used to describe something that conditional; whereas, the latter is definite, which would read "shall". This part of the text, when applied to the entire world, teaches, that, the world will not be saved (no universal salvation), but might (because there is universal atonement), if they meet the condition, and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, which is further taught in verse eighteen.

Let us finally look at the lexical evidence on the use of “kosmos” used in John 3:16.

J H Thayer:

“the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race. Jn. i.10, 29, iii.16sq”

W F Arndt and F W Gingrich:

of all mankind, but especially of believers as objects of God’s love”

J Parkhurst:

“the world, i.e., the whole race of mankind, both believers and unbelievers, both good and bad.”

E Robinson:

“the world for the inhabitants of the earth, men, mankind. John.1.29, 3:16”

Hermann Cremer:

“It denotes the ordered entirety of God’s creation, humanity itself”

The NIV Theological Dictionary of New Testament Words:

“in Jn. kosmos almost always denotes the world of humans, esp. the world of sinful humanity that opposes God, resists the redeeming work of the Son, does not believe in Him”

G Kittel and G Friedrich:

“All the meanings of kosmos come together in the usage of the Fourth Gospel. Not just the Prologue uses kosmos for the world in the sense of the universe

W E Vine:

“the human race, mankind

A T Robertson:

The world (ton kosmon). The whole cosmos of men, including Gentiles, the whole human race. This universal aspect of God's love appears also in 2Co 5:19; Rom 5:8”

M Vincent:

“The sum-total of humanity in the world; the human race



et gloria Dei est
 
Yes God loves the world, but only those who believe in Jesus are saved.
That you ignore the vital verse 18 which makes clear that those who do not believe are already condemned.
 
Yes God loves the world, but only those who believe in Jesus are saved.
That you ignore the vital verse 18 which makes clear that those who do not believe are already condemned.

I don't ignore verse 18. this study is on the extent of both God's love and desire of salvation, for the entire human race; against the false teachings of the Reformed/Calvinists, who say that Jesus only intended to die for the "elect". This passage in John 3 destroys this heresy.
 
I don't ignore verse 18. this study is on the extent of both God's love and desire of salvation, for the entire human race; against the false teachings of the Reformed/Calvinists, who say that Jesus only intended to die for the "elect". This passage in John 3 destroys this heresy.
When did total depravity exist?
What was the solution to come against total depravity?
What was the condition after the solution?
Was the solution a shadow of things to come?
What was the ultimate solution?

It has taken me 50 years to get to where my feeble understanding let’s me even pose the questions. If you / we all answer the questions, we might could work on all of TULIP, and understand how we fail to understand how things change.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
When did total depravity exist?
What was the solution to come against total depravity?
What was the condition after the solution?
Was the solution a shadow of things to come?
What was the ultimate solution?

It has taken me 50 years to get to where my feeble understanding let’s me even pose the questions. If you / we all answer the questions, we might could work on all of TULIP, and understand how we fail to understand how things change.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Hi, thanks for taking your time to share. Total Depravity, or Inability as some say, does not exist in the Holy Bible. It is a false teaching of the so-called "Reformed" Church, as is ULI., in TULIP. My next study deals with the T. God bless
 
Hi, thanks for taking your time to share. Total Depravity, or Inability as some say, does not exist in the Holy Bible. It is a false teaching of the so-called "Reformed" Church, as is ULI., in TULIP. My next study deals with the T. God bless
How about;
Genesis 6:5 kjv
5. And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart wasonly evil continually.

Sounds pretty much total like total depravity to me.

If you see the total depravity causing God to want to destroy mankind, please answer the rest of the questions.

eddif
 
How about;
Genesis 6:5 kjv
5. And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart wasonly evil continually.

Sounds pretty much total like total depravity to me.

If you see the total depravity causing God to want to destroy mankind, please answer the rest of the questions.

eddif


Here is some context for verse 5 —


There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Genesis 6:4-5





JLB
 
How about;
Genesis 6:5 kjv
5. And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart wasonly evil continually.

Sounds pretty much total like total depravity to me.

If you see the total depravity causing God to want to destroy mankind, please answer the rest of the questions.

eddif

Neither does this passage, or any other verse in the entire Holy Bible, teach that humans are so corrupted and dead by the fall, that they are not capable to respond to the Gospel call. That all humans have a free will, is clear from passages like that in John chapter 5, which I have dealt with elsewhere, and Joshua 24:15, where people are exhorted to "choose" the Lord, over evil. This is the theme of the whole Bible. If this were not possible, then these passges are without any meaning. Sinners respond to the inward convicting by the Holy Spirit, as they were on the Day of Pentecost, where those who heard Peter, were "cut to the heart" (2:37); and asked what they needed to DO, so that they could be saved. Peter tells them to REPENT...for the forgiveness of their sins (verse 38).
 
Definition: Love in God is a volition of favor, hate/wrath is a volition to disfavor. God's love is not a feeling, but it is a policy of benevolence that results in actions performed for the benefit of those who are the objects of this love. "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion" (Romans 9:15). Another implication of this fact is that God is not moved by any faith or merit that he foresees in us. Neither is there anything deserving in us that makes him love us.

Exegesis of
John 3:16 (the most abused verse in Scripture today)


God so loved the world”. Many suppose that this means, ‘The entire human race.’ But “the entire human race,” includes all mankind from Adam till the close of the earth’s history! Consider, the history of mankind before Christ was born. Unnumbered millions lived and died before the Savior came to the earth, Ephesians 2:12 “having no hope and without God in the world”, and therefore went to hell. If God “loved” them (or those today that have not heard the salvific gospel), where is the slightest proof? “Who (God) in times past (from the tower of Babel till after Pentecost) suffered all nations to walk in their own ways” (Acts 14:16). God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do things which are improper and repulsive (Romans 1:28). To Israel God said, “You only have I known of all the families of the earth” (Amos 3:2). (Aside: God speaks to KNOWING people, not plan or events). Thus, how can one insist that God in the past loved all mankind! Read the 20th chapter of the Revelation, the great white throne judgment, and see if you can discover there the slightest trace of love (agape LOVE is defined as "a volition to favor". These people spend 99.99% of their lives (pre and post death) in hell .. how could this be an illustration of God's volition to favor (love). (To put it in the vernacular, with friends like that, who needs enemies.) When many people John 3:16 says that God loves the world, it means that He loves every person, head for head, equally. The logic goes something like this: God loves every person; Christ died for every person; therefore, salvation is possible for every person. However, this view seems to suggest that God’s love is impotent and Christ’s death is ineffectual. Otherwise, the natural conclusion of this position would be that every person is actually saved rather than just potentially saved. If God loves every person, and Christ died for every person, and God’s love is not impotent, and Christ’s death is not ineffectual, then the only conclusion one can draw is that salvation has been secured for every person. Yet this viewpoint contradicts the Bible’s teaching on God’s judgment as is evidenced by the immediate context in John 3:17–21.

A study of the concordance will show that there are more references in Scripture to the anger, fury, and wrath of God, than there are to His love and tenderness. Because God is holy, He hates all sin; and because He hates all sin, His anger burns against the sinner (Psalm 7:11; Matthew 3:7).

What of John 3:16. John 3:16 and says, “World means world”. True, but that “the world” does not mean the whole human family." The world” is used in a general way. When the brethren of Christ said, “Shew Thyself to the world” (John 7:4), did they mean “shew Thyself to all mankind” (ridiculous)? When the Pharisees said, “Behold, the world is gone after Him” (John 12:19), did they mean that “all the human family” were flocking after Him (ridiculous)? When the apostle wrote, “Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world” (Romans 1:8), did he mean that the faith of the saints at Rome was the subject of conversation by every man, woman, and child on the earth (ridiculous)? These, and other passages (John 14:17; John 15:19; John 16:20; John 17:14; etc.) which might be quoted, show that the term “the world” often has a relative rather than an absolute force.

World is a nonspecific term for humanity in a general sense. The statement in verse 17, “that the world might be saved through Him,” proves that it does not mean everyone who has ever lived, since all will not be saved. Verse 16 clearly cannot be teaching universal salvation, since the context promises that unbelievers will perish in eternal judgment (vv. 16–18). John MacArthur – New Testament
 
John 3:16 continued (aside: I can be long-winded too)

Just by reading the surrounding verses, it becomes clear that "the whole world" in verse 19 refers to the "many people" in verse 18, and perhaps also "the crowd" in verse 17. If "the whole world "does not automatically and necessarily mean every human person in history, then neither can we simply assume when it comes to the "world" in John 3:16. Just a few verses after John 3:16, we find the following, "He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony" (3:32). No one, the verse says, accepts Christ's testimony. This time, if we were to interpret Scripture as our opponents do, then we would have to conclude that "no one" in all of human history has believed or will ever believe in Christ. There has never been and never will be a Christian in all of human history. And if "no one" must mean every human person without restriction and without exception, then it must mean that even as he writes this verse the apostle John himself has not accepted Christ's testimony.

Concerning the word “whosoever” … First, the language itself does not warrant the inferences made. I can say, "Whoever becomes a fish can breathe under water." The statement is true, but it does not mean that a person can become a fish anytime he wishes. In fact, any inference about one's ability is strictly invalid, since the statement contains no information about ability except for the fish's ability to breath under water. Whether or not it is possible for a person to become a fish, one can infer nothing about it from the statement itself, but it only informs us as to what would happen to a person who turns into a fish. Moreover, even if it is possible for a person to become a fish, the statement says nothing about how this is possible, or whether it is within the person's own power to do so. God is certainly able to turn a man into a fish, but a man "cannot make even one hair white or black" (Matthew 5:36). A statement like the one that I have made tells us nothing about a person's ability, but information about ability must be obtained elsewhere.

Whenever we are talking about something that is impossible with man – such as for a man to turn himself into a fish – it means that it will either never happen, or God must make it happen by his omnipotence. One episode in Jesus' ministry makes exactly this point: Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again, I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. "When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?" Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (Matthew 19:23-26) We only have time to note what is relevant to our discussion. Jesus says plainly that it is impossible for such a man to be saved, except if God makes it happen, since all things are possible with him. But what has happened to "whoever believes"? Jesus never said that everyone can believe, or that it is up to the person to believe, but only that whoever believes will not perish, but will have eternal life. Whether this person in Matthew 19 believes depends on God, not on him, since only God could make it happen.

This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet: "Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" For this reason, they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere: "He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn– and I would heal them." Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him. They cannot believe, because God actively prevents them! He imposes spiritual blindness and deadness upon them, and he withholds understanding and repentance from them. Who, then, is the "whoever" in "whoever believes"? It is the person whom God sovereignly loves, and to whom he grants understanding and repentance.


Vincent Cheung – Born Again https://www.vincentcheung.com/books/Born Again.pdf


Does God love everyone without exception. Yes and no.


YES … The New Testament is replete with references of God’s good will to all humanity even in our fallenness (Matthew 5:43-48). Called the love of benevolence, it includes no spiritual benefit, and none of that concern that a father would have for his children. God provide natural benefits to the reprobates. See Romans 9:13-26; Psalm 145:8–9 “The LORD is gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy. The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.”

No.. God does not favor (the definition of love is “volition to favor”) everyone to the same extent. He loves those in Christ as He loves Christ. (John 17:23) To those God adopts He loves most and perfectly. There is NO hate (volition to disfavor) in God for those IN CHRIST; whereas, the wrath (volition of disfavor) of God is eternal for those not IN CHRIST.
 
It is a BAD IDEA to place one's doctrine upon AMBIGUOUS words. Specially the word WORLD in John 3:16.

The word “World” per A.W. Pink
The fact is that “the world” is often used in a general way as in John 3:16. When the brethren of Christ said, “Shew Thyself to the world” (John 7:4), did they mean “shew Thyself to all mankind”? When the Pharisees said, “Behold, the world is gone after Him” (John 12:19), did they mean that “all the human family” were flocking after Him? When the apostle wrote, “Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world” (Romans 1:8), did he mean that the faith of the saints at Rome was the subject of conversation by every man, woman, and child on the earth? When Revelation 13:3 informs us that “all the world wondered after the beast”, are we to understand that there will be no exceptions? What of the godly Jewish Remnant, who will be slain (Revelation 20:4) rather than submit? These, and other passages (John 14:17; John 15:19; John 16:20; John 17:14; etc.) which might be quoted, show that the term “the world” often has a relative rather than an absolute force.

Now, if you want to manipulate scripture to fit a particular purpose, then the use of ambiguous words like WORLD, ALL, EVERYONE, etc. is a very good place to start.

World is a common name for the whole of human civilization, specifically human experience, history, or the human condition in general, worldwide, i.e. anywhere on Earth. In a philosophical context it may refer to: ⁕the whole of the physical Universe, or ⁕an ontological world.

All - used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing. (note: everyone is similar. I invited everyone to my party. Does that means the entire population of the earth or a particular group.
 
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I have reported you. Please read the Forum rules.

so what? I believe that this teaching is heresy, you may not, that is your concern. If I get removed for the truth, then so be it, I will NOT change what I know to be Bible truth!
 
It is a BAD IDEA to place one's doctrine upon AMBIGUOUS words. Specially the word WORLD in John 3:16.

The word “World” per A.W. Pink
The fact is that “the world” is often used in a general way as in John 3:16. When the brethren of Christ said, “Shew Thyself to the world” (John 7:4), did they mean “shew Thyself to all mankind”? When the Pharisees said, “Behold, the world is gone after Him” (John 12:19), did they mean that “all the human family” were flocking after Him? When the apostle wrote, “Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world” (Romans 1:8), did he mean that the faith of the saints at Rome was the subject of conversation by every man, woman, and child on the earth? When Revelation 13:3 informs us that “all the world wondered after the beast”, are we to understand that there will be no exceptions? What of the godly Jewish Remnant, who will be slain (Revelation 20:4) rather than submit? These, and other passages (John 14:17; John 15:19; John 16:20; John 17:14; etc.) which might be quoted, show that the term “the world” often has a relative rather than an absolute force.

Now, if you want to manipulate scripture to fit a particular purpose, then the use of ambiguous words like WORLD, ALL, EVERYONE, etc. is a very good place to start.

World is a common name for the whole of human civilization, specifically human experience, history, or the human condition in general, worldwide, i.e. anywhere on Earth. In a philosophical context it may refer to: ⁕the whole of the physical Universe, or ⁕an ontological world.

All - used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing. (note: everyone is similar. I invited everyone to my party. Does that means the entire population of the earth or a particular group.

A W Pink was from the reformed camp, and his theology is therefore in that mould. I would rather listen to what the use of the Greek "kosmos" says in lexicons and dictionaries, than someone's own bias because of their warped theology!
 
Definition: Love in God is a volition of favor, hate/wrath is a volition to disfavor. God's love is not a feeling, but it is a policy of benevolence that results in actions performed for the benefit of those who are the objects of this love. "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion" (Romans 9:15). Another implication of this fact is that God is not moved by any faith or merit that he foresees in us. Neither is there anything deserving in us that makes him love us.

Exegesis of
John 3:16 (the most abused verse in Scripture today)


God so loved the world”. Many suppose that this means, ‘The entire human race.’ But “the entire human race,” includes all mankind from Adam till the close of the earth’s history! Consider, the history of mankind before Christ was born. Unnumbered millions lived and died before the Savior came to the earth, Ephesians 2:12 “having no hope and without God in the world”, and therefore went to hell. If God “loved” them (or those today that have not heard the salvific gospel), where is the slightest proof? “Who (God) in times past (from the tower of Babel till after Pentecost) suffered all nations to walk in their own ways” (Acts 14:16). God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do things which are improper and repulsive (Romans 1:28). To Israel God said, “You only have I known of all the families of the earth” (Amos 3:2). (Aside: God speaks to KNOWING people, not plan or events). Thus, how can one insist that God in the past loved all mankind! Read the 20th chapter of the Revelation, the great white throne judgment, and see if you can discover there the slightest trace of love (agape LOVE is defined as "a volition to favor". These people spend 99.99% of their lives (pre and post death) in hell .. how could this be an illustration of God's volition to favor (love). (To put it in the vernacular, with friends like that, who needs enemies.) When many people John 3:16 says that God loves the world, it means that He loves every person, head for head, equally. The logic goes something like this: God loves every person; Christ died for every person; therefore, salvation is possible for every person. However, this view seems to suggest that God’s love is impotent and Christ’s death is ineffectual. Otherwise, the natural conclusion of this position would be that every person is actually saved rather than just potentially saved. If God loves every person, and Christ died for every person, and God’s love is not impotent, and Christ’s death is not ineffectual, then the only conclusion one can draw is that salvation has been secured for every person. Yet this viewpoint contradicts the Bible’s teaching on God’s judgment as is evidenced by the immediate context in John 3:17–21.

A study of the concordance will show that there are more references in Scripture to the anger, fury, and wrath of God, than there are to His love and tenderness. Because God is holy, He hates all sin; and because He hates all sin, His anger burns against the sinner (Psalm 7:11; Matthew 3:7).

What of John 3:16. John 3:16 and says, “World means world”. True, but that “the world” does not mean the whole human family." The world” is used in a general way. When the brethren of Christ said, “Shew Thyself to the world” (John 7:4), did they mean “shew Thyself to all mankind” (ridiculous)? When the Pharisees said, “Behold, the world is gone after Him” (John 12:19), did they mean that “all the human family” were flocking after Him (ridiculous)? When the apostle wrote, “Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world” (Romans 1:8), did he mean that the faith of the saints at Rome was the subject of conversation by every man, woman, and child on the earth (ridiculous)? These, and other passages (John 14:17; John 15:19; John 16:20; John 17:14; etc.) which might be quoted, show that the term “the world” often has a relative rather than an absolute force.

World is a nonspecific term for humanity in a general sense. The statement in verse 17, “that the world might be saved through Him,” proves that it does not mean everyone who has ever lived, since all will not be saved. Verse 16 clearly cannot be teaching universal salvation, since the context promises that unbelievers will perish in eternal judgment (vv. 16–18). John MacArthur – New Testament

John MacArthur, yet another "reformed" teacher, what do you expect? John Calvin himself rightly says what the Bible teaches on John 3:16!
 
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Bible TRUTH is ALL that matters to me, not some heresy pushed by a demonination, or leader, etc...
 
I myself have no problem with God loving the world. I have no problem with the doctrine of election either. Both are true and Biblical.

Just like we know that God loves the world, (John 3:16), we also know that we as Christians are not to love the world. (1 John 2:15-16)

It is very interesting to me that God the Father loves the world. Yet Jesus Christ the Son had no such affection. Note Christ's prayer in (John 17).

(John 17:6) "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world...."

(John 17:9) "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine."

(John 17:16) "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world."

(John 17:20) "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;" There is you and I. Christ praying for you just prior to His betrayal.

The Father loves the world. Christ the Son loves the Church. (Eph. 5:25-26)

Quantrill
 
I myself have no problem with God loving the world. I have no problem with the doctrine of election either. Both are true and Biblical.

Just like we know that God loves the world, (John 3:16), we also know that we as Christians are not to love the world. (1 John 2:15-16)

It is very interesting to me that God the Father loves the world. Yet Jesus Christ the Son had no such affection. Note Christ's prayer in (John 17).

(John 17:6) "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world...."

(John 17:9) "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine."

(John 17:16) "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world."

(John 17:20) "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;" There is you and I. Christ praying for you just prior to His betrayal.

The Father loves the world. Christ the Son loves the Church. (Eph. 5:25-26)

Quantrill

it is very easy to take verses completely out of their contexts and what they were intended for, and to use them for a doctrine. The "reformed" teaching of "election" is IMPOSSIBLE, as passages like John 3:16; 1 John 2:2; 2 Peter 2:1, 3:9; 1 Timothy 2:1-6, etc, clearly teach the opposite!
 


Premise 1: God is holy (not only that He is separate from all that is unclean and evil but also that He is positively pure and thus distinct from all others)
Premise 2: God loves everyone without exception (for God so loved the world some would quote)
Conclusion: A HOLY (separate from all that is unclean) God loves some people with the following characteristics.
  • Matthew 13:38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one. (interestingly the verse uses the word WORLD and describes some people as the "sons of the kingdom" and others as "weeds". Using your doctrine, a holy God loves the "weeds".)
  • John 6:70 Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" (Using your doctrine of God loves everyone without exception, God must love a "devil")
  • John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
  • Acts 13:10 You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord? (Using your doctrine of God loves everyone without exception, a holy God loves some that are "full of all kinds of deceit and trickery".
  • 1 John 3:8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.
  • 1 John 3:10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. (Using your doctrine of God loves everyone without exception, a holy God loves his children and the devil's children)
Let's summarize ... my doctrine says God only loves those that are (will be) IN CHRIST and thus have the imputed righteousness of Christ and are justified by faith. Your doctrine includes those in my group plus the love of a HOLY God for those that are evil. Hmmm, after a little thought ... I will stay firm, as I imagine you will too.

Aside: Makes one reconsider the definition of Holy ... or does God loves everyone without exception
 
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[ACMP=warning]
There will be no more derogatory remarks made against another member in what and how they believe. If this continues this thread will be locked.

ToS 1.3 Use self control and focus on reconciliation when discussing differences. Address the issue, not the person. Do not make derogatory personal remarks or you will be removed from the thread.
[/ACMP]
 
There will be no more derogatory remarks made against another member in what and how they believe. If this continues this thread will be locked.

ToS 1.3 Use self control and focus on reconciliation when discussing differences. Address the issue, not the person. Do not make derogatory personal remarks or you will be removed from the thread.

warning to who?
 
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