For God SO LOVES the Entire Human Race...

[Quantrill]

not the way humans understand this. Jesus says in the Gospels that we are to "hate" everyone if we wanted to be His disciples. In 1 John 2 it says that if we "hate" our brothers/sisters, we are still in darkness, that is, unsaved. What do you make of this?

If you're going to ask me a question about a verse, you should give it. I know the verses you are talking about, but you need to present it so there is no assumption.

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[Quantrill]

you still don't get it!

Actually, I got it just fine. You were mistaken in saying I was drawing distinction between the atonement and the death of Christ. My distinction was between God's purpose for the atonement and the extent of the atonement. It's purpose is for the elect. It's extent is to all. The purpose is limited. The atonement is not.

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[Who Me]

Calvinism teaches that Jesus Christ died only for His elect, and not for anyone else. How can this be true, when the Bible says that God loves the entire human race, and desires that they ALL were to get saved? Calvinstic theology on slavation cannot be Biblical.

There is a difference between loving the whole world and saving those who believe.

Jesus's rightousness would save every person who has ever lived multiple times, yet not everyone is saved.
We are told that salvation was planned before creation.
That means God/Jesus not only planned how salvation would work but who they would save.

It bolis down to, is God in control or is man in control.

 

[for_his_glory]

I disagree. This has nothing to do with my Dispensational view.

God says He hated Esau. I believe what He said.

I never said God hated all but Abraham. I never said God hated Ishmael. Scripture doesn't say that.

Quantrill

I gave Abraham and Ishmael as examples. Here is another example:

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Do you hate your father, mother, wife children, brothers and sisters? Of course not, so we see the word hate as in not loving others, but putting God first above anything or anyone else if you are to be His disciple.

 

[for_his_glory]

If you're going to ask me a question about a verse, you should give it. I know the verses you are talking about, but you need to present it so there is no assumption. Don't make me work due to your laziness.

Quantrill

Read again what SolaScriptura asked you in his post #39 as he presented his question about what you think of the verse he gave in 1 John 2.

 

[for_his_glory]

It's purpose is for the elect. It's extent is to all. The purpose is limited. The atonement is not.

Luke 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The elect have already been atoned for as they have turned back to God. The purpose is for the sinners to bring them to repentance. It's not the atonement that is limited, but the timing that is limited as when Christ returns the door of salvation will be closed forever.

 

[Quantrill]

I gave Abraham and Ishmael as examples. Here is another example:

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Do you hate your father, mother, wife children, brothers and sisters? Of course not, so we see the word hate as in not loving others, but putting God first above anything or anyone else if you are to be His disciple.

I disagree.

You and others just fear the word 'hate' because you have been so indocrinated by the world's opinion of it.

God hates. He made that clear with Esau. You can try and define it any other way you want, but it is clear that God hates.

Hating ones mother and father will depend on the circumstances. If they come between us and Christ, we will, or should, hate them. You don't hate them just because you are Christian.

For example: I become a Christian. My earthly father is opposed to it. I am without work and have no money. I borrow money from my father. He doesn't know that I use this to buy a Bible and books about the Bible. He finds out and is outraged. He takes those books and deatroys them. He comes between me and God and Christ. Do I hate him. You bet I do.

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[SolaScriptura]

There is a difference between loving the whole world and saving those who believe.

Jesus's rightousness would save every person who has ever lived multiple times, yet not everyone is saved.
We are told that salvation was planned before creation.
That means God/Jesus not only planned how salvation would work but who they would save.

It bolis down to, is God in control or is man in control.

for God to love the entire world, in the way that desires all of their salvation, and then provide only for the elect in the Death of Jesus Christ, is deception!

 

[Quantrill]

Read again what SolaScriptura asked you in his post #39 as he presented his question about what you think of the verse he gave in 1 John 2.

I know he presented his question. He needs to give me chapter and verse?

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[Quantrill]

Luke 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The elect have already been atoned for as they have turned back to God. The purpose is for the sinners to bring them to repentance. It's not the atonement that is limited, but the timing that is limited as when Christ returns the door of salvation will be closed forever.

What is your point? I said the atonment is not limited.

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[Quantrill]

for God to love the entire world, in the way that desires all of their salvation, and then provide only for the elect in the Death of Jesus Christ, is deception!

He didn't provide only for the elect. He provided for all. His purpose was only for the elect. No deception on God's part.

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[SolaScriptura]

I know he presented his question. He needs to give me chapter and verse?

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1 John chapter 2, verse 9

Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates a brother or sister is still in the darkness

 

[SolaScriptura]

He didn't provide only for the elect. He provided for all. His purpose was only for the elect. No deception on God's part.

Quantrill

You don't really know what you are on about! God PROVIDES salvation for ALL; but His PURPOSE is the salvation of the ELECT!. What utter RUBBISH!!!

 

[Quantrill]

1 John chapter 2, verse 9

Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates a brother or sister is still in the darkness

Good verse. We who are Christian should not hate our brothers or sisters in Christ. That doesn't mean we should not hate. Esau was never a child of God. Your point?

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[SolaScriptura]

Good verse. We who are Christian should not hate our brothers or sisters in Christ. That doesn't mean we should not hate. Esau was never a child of God. Your point?

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do you understand either Biblical Hebrew or Greek?

 

[Quantrill]

You don't really know what you are on about! God PROVIDES salvation for ALL; but His PURPOSE is the salvation of the ELECT!. What utter RUBBISH!!!

I do know what I am about. And have explained it. Just as i said earlier, it is like the parable of the 'hidden treasure' in (Matt. 13:44). A man found the treasure and purchased the whole field. But his intent was just to get the treasure. In like manner, God had Christ's atonement pay for all. But it is the elect that He was out to save. He secured His whole field so as to get His treasure.

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[SolaScriptura]

Good verse. We who are Christian should not hate our brothers or sisters in Christ. That doesn't mean we should not hate. Esau was never a child of God. Your point?

Quantrill

Pslam 106:40, is about God People, this is what it says:

Then the anger of the LORD was kindled against his people, and he abhorred his heritage

The Hebrew is STRONGER than Malachi 1:3, when used for Esau! God DETESTS His heritage!

 

[SolaScriptura]

I do know what I am about. And have explained it. Just as i said earlier, it is like the parable of the 'hidden treasure' in (Matt. 13:44). A man found the treasure and purchased the whole field. But his intent was just to get the treasure. In like manner, God had Christ's atonement pay for all. But it is the elect that He was out to save. He secured His whole field so as to get His treasure.

Quantrill

you need to read the Bible guided by the Holy Spirit, and not with your Calvinism!

 

[Quantrill]

do you understand either Biblical Hebrew or Greek?

As to 'understand', if you mean do I speak or read Hebrew or Greek, no, I don't.

As to 'understand', if you mean do i resort to those who know Hebrew and Greek, and understand what they are saying, then yes i understand the Hebrew and Greek.

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[Quantrill]

Pslam 106:40, is about God People, this is what it says:

Then the anger of the LORD was kindled against his people, and he abhorred his heritage

The Hebrew is STRONGER than Malachi 1:3, when used for Esau! God DETESTS His heritage!

So? My point was that Esau was never a child of God. Thus the verse you used in (1 John 2:9) didn't apply.

Quantrill