For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

[gordon777]

Does anyone notice, if you remove three threads on theology, 1: trinitarian, 2. JW's, 3. Baptisms, it is entirely three separated sects that are in society, and that separate belief is brought to theology, only to be endlessly debated on, instead of any attempt to stop the divisions that already exist in society, they are brought only for more division, strife and debate ?


It cant be justified, why not speak about justification, by believing in one name, Jesus Christ, no other name to know that matters, and any baptism is the same Spirit of Christ, there is no discussion for theology, but Jesus Christ and Him crucified.



1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Does anyone notice, if you remove three threads on theology, 1: trinitarian, 2. JW's, 3. Baptisms, it is entirely three separated sects that are in society, and that separate belief is brought to theology, only to be endlessly debated on, instead of any attempt to stop the divisions that already exist in society, they are brought only for more division, strife and debate ?


It cant be justified, why not speak about justification, by believing in one name, Jesus Christ, no other name to know that matters, and any baptism is the same Spirit of Christ, there is no discussion for theology, but Jesus Christ and Him crucified.



1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

If you truly think this describes you, can you then restrict yourself to threads that only discuss Jesus Christ and him crucified. You say you are determined to know nothing else, please demonstrate this position in what you write about what you think you know. The above OP does not qualify.

 

[Highway54]

Does anyone notice, if you remove three threads on theology, 1: trinitarian, 2. JW's, 3. Baptisms, it is entirely three separated sects that are in society, and that separate belief is brought to theology, only to be endlessly debated on, instead of any attempt to stop the divisions that already exist in society, they are brought only for more division, strife and debate ?


It cant be justified, why not speak about justification, by believing in one name, Jesus Christ, no other name to know that matters, and any baptism is the same Spirit of Christ, there is no discussion for theology, but Jesus Christ and Him crucified.



1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Where did the divisions start Gordon?

Was it prophesied sir?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Where did the divisions start Gordon?

Was it prophesied sir?

He only knows Christ and him crucified. This question is outside of that limit.

 

[Fastfredy0]

they are brought only for more division, strife and debate ?


It cant be justified,

Hmmm, perhaps we should delete Corinthians and Galatians as they are all about Paul debating what the Truth is to those that went astray.
If people go astray, they need to be set straight. Debate is necessary to change bad theology.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If people go astray, they need to be set straight. Debate is necessary to change bad theology.

That is pretty difficult to do as most modern people do not want to think about why they believe as they do. They put up walls against anything that challenges their chosen view.

 

[gordon777]

Yes, it is easy for a child to understand, the believers were united, all of the same mind and judgment, which is in full assurance of faith in the risen Lord Jesus Christ.

Strife comes from envy, not from godliness.

The Epistles are not put up for debate and discussion, they are put up as answers for those in strife and debate, to cease.

Three threads made specifically for strife, debate, are ungodly, which are, one on Catholic Trinitarianism, another on Baptismal talk, and the third on Jehovah witness divisionary sect doctrine.

Of course the very same people causing mockery out of Christianity will defend their positions, how on earth would they not try to justify injustice.

The point is simple, remove the divisionary threads, or leave them, with them there they are the reason for debate, ass the scriptures are not debate, but are peace in Jesus Christ.

The forum leaves these things intact, but it cannot defend them any more.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes, it is easy for a child to understand, the believers were united, all of the same mind and judgment, which is in full assurance of faith in the risen Lord Jesus Christ.

Strife comes from envy, not from godliness.

The Epistles are not put up for debate and discussion, they are put up as answers for those in strife and debate, to cease.

Three threads made specifically for strife, debate, are ungodly, which are, one on Catholic Trinitarianism, another on Baptismal talk, and the third on Jehovah witness divisionary sect doctrine.

Of course the very same people causing mockery out of Christianity will defend their positions, how on earth would they not try to justify injustice.

The point is simple, remove the divisionary threads, or leave them, with them there they are the reason for debate, ass the scriptures are not debate, but are peace in Jesus Christ.

The forum leaves these things intact, but it cannot defend them any more.

I thought you said you were determined to know nothing save Jesus Christ and him crucified?

 

[Free]

Does anyone notice, if you remove three threads on theology, 1: trinitarian, 2. JW's, 3. Baptisms, it is entirely three separated sects that are in society, and that separate belief is brought to theology, only to be endlessly debated on, instead of any attempt to stop the divisions that already exist in society, they are brought only for more division, strife and debate ?


It cant be justified, why not speak about justification, by believing in one name, Jesus Christ, no other name to know that matters, and any baptism is the same Spirit of Christ, there is no discussion for theology, but Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Because to say that a discussion on the Trinity "can't be justified" but then also say that we should "speak about justification, by believing in one name, Jesus Christ, no other name to know that matters" and that "there is no discussion for theology, but Jesus Christ and Him crucified," is to just beg the question.

Either who the Bible reveals Jesus to be actually matters and needs to be discussed, or it doesn't matter who the Bible reveals Jesus to be and then discussion of being justified through believing in him and his death is pointless. We simply cannot believe that the central figure of the entirety of Scripture, in whose name and work alone we have salvation, can be whoever or whatever we want and still be saved.

"Who do you say that I am?" is the most important question we must answer, and that necessarily leads to discussing the deity of Jesus, which leads to the Trinity.

 

[gordon777]

"Who do you say that I am?" is the most important question we must answer, and that necessarily leads to discussing the deity of Jesus, which leads to the Trinity.

There is a difference to, Jesus asking who do you say I am, than the sects of this world that teach division in Jesus Christ Himself.

Those divided sects, Catholics, and all( Baptists, Jehovah witness.) are free to believe as they wish, but divided doctrinal beliefs are not able to be brought to united Christianity, without causing strife, debate, disputes.

Jesus was not one of the prophets, or Elias, or John the Baptist....



Matthew 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.




We are required to believe in the rising of Christ from the dead, ( to be saved) and although you dispute this thread with its intentions to explain that there is no discussion in this world, other than to believe in our heart that God raised Christ from the dead, of Christ and Him crucified, you are cementing the fact that the forum only promotes and believes in strife instead.

Another thread still active on theology is about baptism.

But yet again, that too is not designed for belief in the rising of Christ from the dead, it is only for debate.

There is only one thing to sav, one thing to know entirely, if our conscience now believes in Christ risen to forgive our sins, or we are yet dead in our sins. ( THIS IS KNJOWING WHO JESUS IS ALSO.)


John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[gordon777]

Everybody can notice, there are currently three threads on theology, who are stopped. That proves what I am saying, that there are people present, with threads that are not correct for theology.

I wont overhaul the whole forum, or anything else, but because I am on the forum I am reminding us all that belief in Jesus Christ is in righteousness, and we either believe that Christ righteously died for us, to take us away from men's strife, debate, disputes, pride gives contention, or we remain in the lifted up pride of the devil. We have little time left to be in ALL HOLY CONVERSATION.


2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?




The rest of any incorrect ways, opinions, everything, can remain the same, because it requires God to end the whole evil world, there is no good for it but its end. Meanwhile, any place that is not afraid to stop causing wrong in the name of Christ, sure is known to be without fear, without that peaceable good fruit and fierce...



James 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.


2 Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
.
Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

 

[Highway54]

He only knows Christ and him crucified. This question is outside of that limit.

Follow the conversation maam.

 

[Free]

There is a difference to, Jesus asking who do you say I am, than the sects of this world that teach division in Jesus Christ Himself.

Those divided sects, Catholics, and all( Baptists, Jehovah witness.) are free to believe as they wish, but divided doctrinal beliefs are not able to be brought to united Christianity, without causing strife, debate, disputes.

Jesus was not one of the prophets, or Elias, or John the Baptist....



Matthew 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.




We are required to believe in the rising of Christ from the dead, ( to be saved) and although you dispute this thread with its intentions to explain that there is no discussion in this world, other than to believe in our heart that God raised Christ from the dead, of Christ and Him crucified, you are cementing the fact that the forum only promotes and believes in strife instead.

Another thread still active on theology is about baptism.

But yet again, that too is not designed for belief in the rising of Christ from the dead, it is only for debate.

There is only one thing to sav, one thing to know entirely, if our conscience now believes in Christ risen to forgive our sins, or we are yet dead in our sins. ( THIS IS KNJOWING WHO JESUS IS ALSO.)


John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Do you think that a person can believe whatever they want about Jesus and still be saved, when it is in his name alone—the sun total of his person and work—by which we are saved?

JWs believe Jesus is a mere creature. Mormons that he is the literal offspring of the Father procreating with his wife. Others believe he is the Father. Some believe his physical body was an illusion. Christians believe Jesus is God but not the Father, being eternally begotten of the same substance. All of them can say they believe Jesus is the Son of God and that he was crucified.

Yet, Jesus claimed to be the I Am, even saying that unless a person believed he was the I Am, they would die in their sins (John 8:24). Paul reiterates this in Rom 10:9-13.

So, do you really think that people can believe whatever they want about Jesus—the central person of the entirety of Scripture, in whose name alone we have salvation—even contradicting what the Bible reveals about who he is, and still be saved?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Follow the conversation maam.

When a man makes a claim that scripture describes him personally, he ought to at least live up to
it or try to do so or not make the claim in the first place. Doesn’t matter what else is said except that it shows the claim us untrue.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Do you think that a person can believe whatever they want about Jesus and still be saved, when it is in his name alone—the sun total of his person and work—by which we are saved?

This is an interesting question. What "precisely" are you saying one must believe about Christ to be saved? What is the list of facts one must believe to be true if one is to be saved? (with scripture verses) Or, is there a list of facts that save? Supposedly, something simple enough that a child could understand I presume. I have a list of facts... I'm curious to compare with yours.

Yet, Jesus claimed to be the I Am, even saying that unless a person believed he was the I Am, they would die in their sins (John 8:24).

A person with a third group said the critical doctrine was to believe that Jesus is God. I asked what Scripture that was based on and was given John 8:24 “for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he.” This popular interpretation ignores the fact that (1) when Jesus was subsequently asked who he is, he called himself “the Son of Man” (John 8:25-28), and (2) the similarity between this verse and Exodus 3:14 exists only in the Latin and certain English translations, but not in the Greek nor in the Hebrew. So even though Jesus is God, he was not saying “You must believe that I am Yahweh to be saved.”
Rick Brown https://www.ijfm.org/PDFs_IJFM/17_4_PDFs/02_Brown_Beliefs_hw.pdf

I believe one fact that must be believed to be saved is that Christ is God. So far the only two verses I believe confirm this are: John 20:31 and 1 John 5:31 ... John 8:24 is a maybe

So, do you really think that people can believe whatever they want about Jesus—the central person of the entirety of Scripture, in whose name alone we have salvation—even contradicting what the Bible reveals about who he is, and still be saved?

To some degree, YES. IMO one could believe Christ has 6 toes on His left foot and assuming this to be incorrect, I think that person would still be saved. Again, what is your list of MUST BE BELIEVED TO BE SAVED.

Aside: I'll skip the list of things that cannot be believed/done that nullify salvation (keep it simple *giggle*) Skip possible necessity of WORKS too. K.I.S.S. rule
atpollard Iconoclast ... just an FYI in case your interested in the answer ... or maybe you want to chime in

 

[Iconoclast]

The problem is sin. Yes, I know that sounds shocking but there is a conflict between the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent.

Satan has been defeated at the cross, but he still tries and keep people blinded by error.

2cor4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Religious people can pick up a bible and read it, and everyone fights for the right to have their own opinion of it. Natural men can only try and understand by their own flesh.
Actual Christians are indwelt by the Spirit who allows truth to be welcomed 1cor.2

Does that mean they are infallible interpreters? No
Why not?
There are reasons we differ.... remaining unmortified sin, pride of life, mental deficits, carnal philosophy, bad teaching by bad uncalled teachers, cults, apostate Christians who are departing from the faith Jude3
Confessional churches take a stand and declare...we believe the bible teaches this at the very minimum. It is a protection if it is a biblical confession of faith,
A mormon work, jw books, have already departed from the faith. All works based churches RC, and cults fall by the wayside.

 

[Free]

This is an interesting question. What "precisely" are you saying one must believe about Christ to be saved? What is the list of facts one must believe to be true if one is to be saved? (with scripture verses) Or, is there a list of facts that save? Supposedly, something simple enough that a child could understand I presume. I have a list of facts... I'm curious to compare with yours.

I haven't actually made a list as such. For certain:

1. That there is only one God (too many to list).
2. That Jesus is God in human flesh--John 1:12, 8:24 ("he" not actually being in the Greek text, same as at 18:5-6); Rom 10:9-13.
3. That Jesus is the Son of God--John 3:16-17; 20:31; Acts 2:36-38.
4. That Jesus literally died and rose again for our sin--1 Cor 15:12-23.

As an aside, I believe that the title "Son of God" is a claim to be God in human flesh.

A person with a third group said the critical doctrine was to believe that Jesus is God. I asked what Scripture that was based on and was given John 8:24 “for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he.” This popular interpretation ignores the fact that (1) when Jesus was subsequently asked who he is, he called himself “the Son of Man” (John 8:25-28), and (2) the similarity between this verse and Exodus 3:14 exists only in the Latin and certain English translations, but not in the Greek nor in the Hebrew. So even though Jesus is God, he was not saying “You must believe that I am Yahweh to be saved.”
Rick Brown https://www.ijfm.org/PDFs_IJFM/17_4_PDFs/02_Brown_Beliefs_hw.pdf

I think that the problem here is that the response leaves out what immediately precedes Jesus statement:

Joh 8:23 He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
Joh 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” (ESV)

He first says that he is "from above" and "not of this world." And, of course, the response ignores 8:58. There certainly is a lot going on in this chapter. As for the similarities with Greek, it is there, and is explained by James R. White in The Forgotten Trinity.

I believe one fact that must be believed to be saved is that Christ is God. So far the only two verses I believe confirm this are: John 20:31 and 1 John 5:31 ... John 8:24 is a maybe

Which version do you use that has 1 John 5:31? :wink

To some degree, YES. IMO one could believe Christ has 6 toes on His left foot and assuming this to be incorrect, I think that person would still be saved. Again, what is your list of MUST BE BELIEVED TO BE SAVED.

Ha! Yes, certain things such as physical characteristics or that he ate fish are not necessary, but rather what pertains to his nature (although, the eating of fish is relevant immediately post-resurrection).

 

[Fastfredy0]

I haven't actually made a list as such. For certain:

... it would be seem to be a potentially eternity altering question that needs attention ... *soft smile*
...aside, as I believe God selected me and completely determines whether or not I will be saved so I feel safe that, even though I might not know the list, God has ensured I do know what I need to know and believe what I need to believe .... but for those that feel it is incumbent for them to believe this or that independent of God, the question is CRITICAL

That there is only one God (too many to list).

I don't know of any verse the correlates that belief with being saved or not ... give me one or two (I know there are lots of verses saying there is only one God ... but a verse saying one must believe that to be saved)
Aside: I believe there is only one God

That Jesus is God in human flesh--John 1:12, 8:24 ("he" not actually being in the Greek text, same as at 18:5-6); Rom 10:9-13.

Yeah, I agree with that and gave two verses.

That Jesus is the Son of God--John 3:16-17; 20:31; Acts 2:36-38.

Agreed... .sort of the same as being God

That Jesus literally died and rose again for our sin--1 Cor 15:12-23.

I was thinking of that... though 1 Cor. 15:1-4 ... 3 For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold], 4 and that He was buried, and that He was [bodily] raised on the third day according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold], AMP
... technically, I would have said 1 Cor 15:12-23 would explain the logical necessity for Christ being raised in order to be saved and not necessarily the need to believe it. Like, logically God needs to be eternal in order to save me, but I don't have to believe it to be saved. Anyways ..... verses 3 and 4 seem to point out one must believe:

1. Christ died
2. Christ was buried
3. Christ resurrected
4. Christ's resurrection was on the third day.

If one didn't believe or know Christ was resurrected on the 3 day would he be saved? If your answer is NO, then are you sure of the necessity of believe 1 thru 3?
Aside: I believe all 4 points, but is believing all 4 point needed for salvation?

I think that the problem here is that the response leaves out what immediately precedes Jesus statement:

Joh 8:23 He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
Joh 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” (ESV)

Ah, good point ... You moved me from 'maybe' to 'agreed' .... *you don't get many 'wins' in the forum *giggle*

Which version do you use that has 1 John 5:31?

... the Fastfredy version? ... tried to look it up and it doesn't exist... hope Rev. 22:18 doesn't apply to my mistake
... meant 1 John 5:13

 

[atpollard]

Do you think that a person can believe whatever they want about Jesus and still be saved, when it is in his name alone—the sum total of his person and work—by which we are saved?

I always go back to Romans 10:9-10 as my Yardstick:

Romans 10:9-10 [NLT]

If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.​

(I went with NLT, because sometimes the EASIEST TO UNDERSTAND is the best Tool for the Job.)

• "confess with your mouth" ... you have to say it and mean it: Salvation is a relationship (and a life transforming one), it is NOT an incantation. It is the REALITY, not the words that change and save us. However, if you cannot SAY IT and MEAN IT, then how can it be TRUE?
• "Jesus is Lord" ... We are not "saying and meaning" just anything. Jesus IS LORD. That covers TWO parts. First, Jesus is THE LORD (capital L) meaning that Jesus is GOD. You must "say it and mean it". Second part, Jesus is OUR LORD ... "we are not our own, we are purchased with a price". The line that those at the end of Romans 1 were unwilling to cross was to surrender control to God. "I am not master of my own destiny" is the most unnatural thing for a fallen man to think, let alone "say and mean". So the call is nothing less than complete surrender to Jesus Christ as your MASTER and your GOD ... that is what you must "say and mean". JESUS IS LORD! (a powerful statement).
• "believe in your heart" ... not intellectual accent. The demons KNOW with complete certainty, the facts of the resurrection (and that knowledge gains them nothing). This is a hope born of something deep inside. My Pentecostal Friends would say "You know that you know that you know ...". This is a certainty that LIVES deep inside - in a New Heart - and fills you with a new hope. As Steve Brown says: "A dead man got up and walked, and He says that we can, too." That is a pretty transformative reality.
• "God raised him from the dead" ... so what is it thar our New Heart assures us of: The TOMB is EMPTY and GOD did it. The same GOD that we are trusting. The same God that made these promises to us. The same God that said He would do THAT, says that He loves US and will save us. If He DID THAT, then He WILL DO this.

Hence the CONCLUSIONS: Believing "makes us right with God" and Confessing saves us.
That is not "BELIEVE ANYTHING" that is "BELIEVE SOMETHING" (and WHAT a something!)

 

[Hopeful]

Does anyone notice, if you remove three threads on theology, 1: trinitarian, 2. JW's, 3. Baptisms, it is entirely three separated sects that are in society, and that separate belief is brought to theology, only to be endlessly debated on, instead of any attempt to stop the divisions that already exist in society, they are brought only for more division, strife and debate ?


It cant be justified, why not speak about justification, by believing in one name, Jesus Christ, no other name to know that matters, and any baptism is the same Spirit of Christ, there is no discussion for theology, but Jesus Christ and Him crucified.



1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Paul started out with step one, knowledge of the Lord who was crucified for us.
More steps followed.