For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

[gordon777]

We none of us are perfect, far from it, but it helps if we keep our eyes on the Lord and not on the things of earth.
.

Patience has her perfect work in us, is the testimony.


Everybody reading this thread is well advised to take a look at al of these witnessing scriptures...



Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

2 Corinthians 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,

Colossians 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Thessalonians 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

1 Timothy 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

2 Timothy 3: 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

Hebrews 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

2 Peter 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

James 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

James 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

 

[gordon777]

Yep.
The steps taken after believing Jesus died for our sins provide greater detail into Christ's death and resurrection.

The death and resurrection of Christ is belief in us, or not belief in us.

 

[gordon777]

You are not wrong, but for some reason I am reminded of the self-righteous Pharisees, King David and Bathsheba, and Paul's exhortation to keep our eyes on the goal while we run the race. More than anything else, I am reminded of the love of our heavenly Father, who cares for us and keeps us safe, in whom we put our trust, and that is what I will always do.
.

Yeah, we have our eyes on Christ, who is the author of our faith, the forerunner who entered in for us to follow after, that is the only way we run with patience the race which is set before us. ( remember I just gave the verses for that perfecting of our patience.)


Hebrews 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[gordon777]

You would think so. I'm a bit on the fence but certainly lean in the reformed direction, as we've previously discussed. I really like your statement that "even though I might not know the list, God has ensured I do know what I need to know and believe what I need to believe." I'll have to think about that further.

It is likely that a person who is saved will come to believe those things. And, it could be that a person who claims to be saved, but after years of "being a Christian" and having not come to believe the truth of those matters, isn't truly saved.


I sure hope you do. :wink This guards against the belief that one can be a polytheist and still be saved. Perhaps it is better to think of this in the reverse--that one cannot be saved and believe in more than one God. I can't quite remember the philosophical arguments, but basically, for God to actually be God, he cannot be lacking in any one thing. And, if he is not lacking in any one thing, then there cannot be any other God. The only way for there to be more than one God, is that each God must be deficient in some way or entirely different one from the other. Much like the Greek gods.

So, this does speak to the nature of God, and, although I can't think of a verse which explicitly states that one must believe in only one God, it seems to me, at a minimum, to be underlying much of salvific thought in the Bible. It gets a bit more involved when we bring in the Trinity, but a passage like Rom 10:9-13 seems to require confession that Jesus is YHWH for salvation, which would imply the one God.


It certainly is that, but there are also some, like JWs, believe that Jesus was raised spiritually, not physically.


This is a bit different because this says something about the nature of God. If God isn't eternal, for example, then he isn't a necessary being, he isn't self-existent, and must have been created by the actual God. When it comes to the nature of God, and Jesus, if the nature is wrong, the being or person is not the biblical one.


You a 4 pointer? I don't think the number of days would matter, but just that he was raised. However, one shouldn't believe other than three days since Jesus said it would be three days, more than once.

The problem here is that if one doesn't believe that Christ died, was buried, and rose again, then it would suggest they don't understand the nature of the problem of man's rebellion against God and the utter sinfulness of their sin. It suggests that they believe they don't need a saviour.


I think you'll be okay. Yes, that would be another verse as well.

Why call yourself an admin, and on the thread made specifically to avoid discussion of one or three /trinity, and you feel you should discuss it anyway ?

The thread is called, knowing the crucifixion of Jesus Christ only.

On this thread, I have one person repeatedly mocking what I made the thread for, and you as an admin say nothing of course to that mocker.

 

[gordon777]

You know... I can't think of a verse that says God is "perfect". How can man define perfection of a transcendent being? On the hand, there are no verses suggesting an imperfection (giggle) ... assuming one interprets the verses correctly.

Man described nothing, Gods Spirit is the entire scripture. ( 1 Peter 1:11.)



Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Psalm 18:30 As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the Lord is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Luke 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

 

[gordon777]

Perhaps, "believe Christ was raised of the third day" is critical to salvation. I wouldn't think so, but I don't make the rules and these verses could be interpreted that all 4 facts MUST BE BELIEVED to be saved.
I don't think any of the 4 points is needed for salvation, though 3 of the points are critical to knowing the foundation of salvation.Ma

Yes, believing we live on the third day is critical in believing for salvation..


Hosea 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[gordon777]

1. Premise1: People in the O.T. were saved by FAITH
Premise2: The salvific facts (whatever they were) to be believed by O.T. saints varies from N.T. saints

Premise3: The Bible speak of varying degrees of faith Romans 14:1; Mark 9:24; Romans 12:6-8

1. Anyone saved is by Jesus Christ, OT saints had that Spirit of the Son in them, ( 1 Peter 1:11.) to testify what the Son would fulfil. ( so they and we do not die in sin)

Because the promise was not fulfilled in the OT, they without us are not made perfect. ( Christ in us, is perfection/charity. Hebrews 9:9. 11:40)



2. look again at your three scripture quotes with me. ( new eyes)

One moment it may seem like there is lack of strong faith in those three scriptures ?

Now we put the preceding verse to Mark 9:24, and we are told this, that all things are possible when one believes, and then when the man says to help that unbelief, he asks to help for belief in all things. ( not that he has a varying degree of belief.)

Now reading Romans 14:1, we receive those who are weak, but not to doubtful disputations. ( we receive them in peace, not to dispute, who eats what.)

Continuing to James 1, we understand those who lack wisdom ask of God who gives freely, but they ask in faith that has no wavering, no double mindedness. ( no doubt/strong assured faith, or we receive nothing.)



Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

 

[gordon777]

I answer for you guys, because I can, but I will say this again, if there is no consenting/acknowledging of the wholesome words of Christ, the doctrine according to godliness, it is because those people are the ungodly, who only speak for strife, dispute, and to do that on the thread I made specifically to not have that on this topic, is as deceitful as there could ever be, no wonder you guys don't stop your whole forum threads being a place of blasphemy to allow strife and debate for 15 plus years daily in the name of Jesus Christ, pretending it is a Christian forum.

If one believes in Jesus Christ, they do not pretend in word and tongue, they stop that and leave a place like this to love in deed and in truth.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Why call yourself an admin, and on the thread made specifically to avoid discussion of one or three /trinity, and you feel you should discuss it anyway ?

The thread is called, knowing the crucifixion of Jesus Christ only.

On this thread, I have one person repeatedly mocking what I made the thread for, and you as an admin say nothing of course to that mocker.

It’s not mocking. It’s measuring you by your words as Jesus said should be done.

 

[Cooper]

Does anyone notice, if you remove three threads on theology, 1: trinitarian, 2. JW's, 3. Baptisms, it is entirely three separated sects that are in society, and that separate belief is brought to theology, only to be endlessly debated on, instead of any attempt to stop the divisions that already exist in society, they are brought only for more division, strife and debate ?


It cant be justified, why not speak about justification, by believing in one name, Jesus Christ, no other name to know that matters, and any baptism is the same Spirit of Christ, there is no discussion for theology, but Jesus Christ and Him crucified.



1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

You may like this Gorden? I posted it in response to someone on another forum, a long time ago.

SALVATION
Yes, I am a “red letter” person. Nicodemus said Jesus is a teacher sent from God, we need no other. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Not only that, but he came down from heaven’s glory to save us from our sins, to show us the way to go, and to be our teacher, guide and friend. There is no one else like him. We need to surrender our lives to the Saviour of the world and repent of our iniquities, for only He can redeem us. Like the Good Shepherd and the Father of the Prodigal Son, Jesus will welcome all those who follow false teachers back into his presence with ever-open arms. Come unto me and be saved, for if thou shalt confess with thy mouth that Jesus is Lord of your life and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou will be saved.


From the Master himself:
(John 10:9) Jesus said, “I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and find pasture … I have come that they may have life and that they may have it more abundantly.”

(John 11:25) Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life, he who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.”

(John 5:24) “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgement, but has passed from death to life.”

(John 6:35) And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.”

(John 6:51) “I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

(John 8:24) “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”


Then the public profession of our faith when we tell others we follow Jesus, and are baptised in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," (Jews and the cults refuse to do this.) and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Luke 12:8 "I tell you, whoever publicly acknowledges me before others, the Son of Man will also acknowledge before the angels of God.

Romans 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Matthew 10:32 "Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven.


For Jews
Isa 45:21b-22 KJV
(21) ...... there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. (To deny Jesus is to deny Yahweh, the One God.)

These verses contain a plain prediction of the universal spread of the knowledge of God through Christ; and so the Targum appears to have understood it; see Rom_14:11; Php_2:10. The reading of the Targum is remarkable, viz., אתפנו למימרי ithpeno lemeymri, look to my Word, ὁ Λογος, the Lord Jesus. (Clarke)

For it is written (Isaiah 45:20-23) "As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. (Rom 14:11 KJV)

That at the name of Jesus, every knee, including Jews, should bow, of things in heaven, and things on earth, and things under the earth. (Php 2:10 KJV)

Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save. Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
(Isa 45:20-23 KJV)

Jesus is the God of the Old Testament.
.

 

[Free]

Why call yourself an admin, and on the thread made specifically to avoid discussion of one or three /trinity, and you feel you should discuss it anyway ?

The thread is called, knowing the crucifixion of Jesus Christ only.

I know, and I pointed out that one cannot understand the crucifixion if they don't understand who Christ is. Who he is is the most important question that must be answered first.

You said in the OP: "It cant be justified, why not speak about justification, by believing in one name, Jesus Christ, no other name to know that matters, and any baptism is the same Spirit of Christ, there is no discussion for theology, but Jesus Christ and Him crucified."

I responded, in part, with: "Either who the Bible reveals Jesus to be actually matters and needs to be discussed, or it doesn't matter who the Bible reveals Jesus to be and then discussion of being justified through believing in him and his death is pointless."

For some reason, you take issue with people discussing the deity of Jesus, which of course necessarily will involve the Trinity. You just want to discuss justification and "believing in one name, Jesus Christ, which are absolutely good and find, however, if we get Jesus wrong, we get the crucifixion wrong, we get justification wrong, we get all of salvation wrong.

On this thread, I have one person repeatedly mocking what I made the thread for, and you as an admin say nothing of course to that mocker.

I haven't seen anyone mocking you. If you feel someone is violating the ToS, use the "Report" feature; that's what it's there for.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Yes, believing we live on the third day is critical in believing for salvation..

So, you believe that a youngster whose salvific knowledge is perfect save he does know how many days Christ was in the grave would go to hell because he faith was insufficient ???

 

[Hopeful]

You are not wrong, but for some reason I am reminded of the self-righteous Pharisees, King David and Bathsheba, and Paul's exhortation to keep our eyes on the goal while we run the race. More than anything else,

Those folks of the OT didn't have the option of killing the old man and being reborn of God's seed.
They were...built for failure.
We of the NT are REbuilt to endure faithfully until the end.
Thanks be to God.

I am reminded of the love of our heavenly Father, who cares for us and keeps us safe, in whom we put our trust, and that is what I will always do.

Amen to that, as the temptations don't cease after being reborn.
But our resistance to them grows exponentially.

 

[Hopeful]

The death and resurrection of Christ is belief in us, or not belief in us.

Finally, a short concise post, but unfortunately, one I can't understand.
Care to elaborate?

 

[gordon777]

If we do not consent to the wholesome words of Christ, our doctrine is the beguiling serpent.

No discussion or answers to be had with anyone here.

Here it is again for anyone, realising the strife makers are withdrawn from.

Why be fooled any more people, by the deceiver, the forum admins speak Christianity, but even though we do not see what everybody does, we know they can only do, as they failed to do in words. ( to fail to do well in all life too.)

Through pride is contention, it is not the Spirit of Jesus Christ we can see in that. ( wolves in SHEEPS CLOTHING, but we know them by their fruits. That is the only answer they receive from me.)



Proverbs 13:10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

 

[Hopeful]

If we do not consent to the wholesome words of Christ, our doctrine is the beguiling serpent.

No discussion or answers to be had with anyone here.

Here it is again for anyone, realising the strife makers are withdrawn from.

Why be fooled any more people, by the deceiver, the forum admins speak Christianity, but even though we do not see what everybody does, we know they can only do, as they failed to do in words. ( to fail to do well in all life too.)

Through pride is contention, it is not the Spirit of Jesus Christ we can see in that. ( wolves in SHEEPS CLOTHING, but we know them by their fruits. That is the only answer they receive from me.)



Proverbs 13:10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

Iron sharpens iron. (Pro 27:17)
Without debate, there is no consensus.
Without debate, there is no learning.
Without debate, the devilish are not unmasked.