For those who ascribe to Salvation by Grace through faith

[kjb1769]

Yes in Acts 2 that happened but the Lord appeared to Paul after Pentacost. He revealed to Paul a gospel and a mystery.

Ro 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
​

Ro 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Paul preached a specific gospel the gospel of our salvation.

Peter said in Acts 2 ​

verse16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

What Paul preached "was kept secert since the world began" The Church the Body of Christ could not have started at Jerusalem when the 12 were baptised with the Holy Ghost.

 

[glorydaz]

Of course God calls us wicked as in a condition of sin after eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and unwittingly receiving a false image of god. God calls us wicked and deceived because of blindness and sin, iniquity, vanity etc... Hence Jesus says the sick need a doctor, and forgive them they know not what they do. So why not believe Jesus?

How can man have a false image of God when God has revealed Himself in the conscience of man?

If we had a false image of God, our conscience would tell us good was bad and bad was good. It doesn't.

Any man can attest to the fact that they know the difference. They just choose to disobey.

So how does this denigrate the cross?

You've put Jesus on the cross to pay for sins that wouldn't even be considered sins since the sinner didn't voluntarily choose to sin. Sin is the voluntary commission of an act known to be contrary to the will of God.

Are you saying you knowingly want to be a sinner? What wickedness in you makes you think they did? As for me, I know I do not want to be a sinner and I have no reason to think Adam and Eve were less than me. Doing unto others as I would have done to me is all I'm doing.

Perhaps you should be asking yourself why you would inquire about wickedness in me, and then claim you are doing unto others what you would have done unto you. You don't see the absurdity in that statement? ;)

 

[Grubal Muruch]

How can man have a false image of God when God has revealed Himself in the conscience of man?

If we had a false image of God, our conscience would tell us good was bad and bad was good. It doesn't.

Any man can attest to the fact that they know the difference. They just choose to disobey.





You've put Jesus on the cross to pay for sins that wouldn't even be considered sins since the sinner didn't voluntarily choose to sin. Sin is the voluntary commission of an act known to be contrary to the will of God.



Perhaps you should be asking yourself why you would inquire about wickedness in me, and then claim you are doing unto others what you would have done unto you. You don't see the absurdity in that statement? ;)

I agree with you on all this glorydaz 100% Yikes!!!

 

[glorydaz]

Yes in Acts 2 that happened but the Lord appeared to Paul after Pentacost. He revealed to Paul a gospel and a mystery.

Ro 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
​

Ro 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Paul preached a specific gospel the gospel of our salvation.

Peter said in Acts 2 ​

verse16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

What Paul preached "was kept secert since the world began" The Church the Body of Christ could not have started at Jerusalem when the 12 were baptised with the Holy Ghost.

24The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

25Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Paul is not saying this has never been revealed, for he clearly points to the prophets. He is speaking of the gospel that is now clearly published to the gentiles for all to spiritually discern. We know it was revealed to Abraham who came by faith and the promise, and others in the OT. What was written of in shadowy types has now been made clear with the coming of the predicted messiah. It's now been shown plainly to all nations.

 

[kjb1769]

It is no mystery that Gentiles could be blessed by going through Isreal.
The fact that Christ died for our sins was not known to Peter.
Until Paul went to Jerusalem and told him.
The scripture is plain that what Paul is preaching and teaching is a mystery.

Ro 16 it says "which was kept secret since the world began But now is made manifest"

​

 

[glorydaz]

It is no mystery that Gentiles could be blessed by going through Isreal.
The fact that Christ died for our sins was not known to Peter.
Until Paul went to Jerusalem and told him.
The scripture is plain that what Paul is preaching and teaching is a mystery.

Ro 16 it says "which was kept secret since the world began But now is made manifest"

​

You might want to read Isaiah 53.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

 

[kjb1769]

Paul is the apostle to the gentiles the idea that Christ died for Gentiles was not known.
And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles. -Acts 22:21 And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live. -Acts 22:22
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) -Ephesians 3:4
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; -Ephesians 3:5
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: -Ephesians 3:6

 

[glorydaz]

Paul is the apostle to the gentiles the idea that Christ died for Gentiles was not known.
And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles. -Acts 22:21 And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live. -Acts 22:22
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) -Ephesians 3:4
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; -Ephesians 3:5
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: -Ephesians 3:6

I know there are some who believe what you do, but let's look at the Word.

God does nothing without revealing his secret to the prophets.

Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

He declares the end from the beginning... revealing things not yet done

Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Besides the promise to Abraham where God says, ".... in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

We have verses such as this...

I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

The mystery only refers to believers now having the same spiritual understanding as the prophets and, now (after Pentecost) the apostles. The prophets were inspired to write by the Spirit...it's the Spirit that gives understanding.

 

[Adullam]

It's perfectly clear that the Bible ascribes to the fact that God, has provided a way to receive His mercy and forgiveness. And that is through the "shed blood" of His Son... Eternal life can only be attained only "one" way. There's not several ways to God or even a few, there's "one. Jesus said, "I am the way." Christ did ALL the work and God expects us to place only, our faith in Christ...We are ALL sinners. Christ died for the sins of ALL mankind, but, we must place our faith in what He did. We must first "hear" about God's (free gift of eternal life) through the Bible. Next The Holy Spirit uses that truth to convict us of sin. Once we "realize" we are lost sinners headed for eternal separation from God and eternal punishment, we must make a decision to believe and put our faith in Jesus as our "ONLY" Lord and Savior. The Spirit indwells and seals us and we are now "Born-again Spiritually" and now am considered "a child of God." This process is entirely done by the Grace of God, it cannot be earned by doing "good works," being baptized, going to church regularly, or anything else. It is a gift of God, because He loved the world and made provision for the forgiveness of sins and He gave us eternal life with Him as well... We must receive Christ though faith, "individually." We are "sanctified" (cleansed) by the Holy Spirit (at the time we choose to put our faith in Christ) All are welcome to participate in this discussion...

In my experience those who promote these type of verses don't understand them...let's see!

We are being kept by the power of God (grace) through faith (obedience) unto the salvation to come.

If people have a hard time with this statement is because they think that God is looking for non-obedient opportunistic ones who don't want commandments but only suggestions.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

In my experience those who promote these type of verses don't understand them...let's see!

We are being kept by the power of God (grace) through faith (obedience) unto the salvation to come.

If people have a hard time with this statement is because they think that God is looking for non-obedient opportunistic ones who don't want commandments but only suggestions.

If I understand your statement, (and I'm not certain that I do) It seems you believe we must "earn" our salvation through works/abiding by the law, Is this not true??

 

[kjb1769]

The mystery only refers to believers now having the same spiritual understanding as the prophets and, now (after Pentecost) the apostles. The prophets were inspired to write by the Spirit...it's the Spirit that gives understanding

I don't see where in Isiah chapter 42 or 46 that the Gentiles would be come the body of Christ.

Preaching the salvation of Gentiles by grace through faith and the placing of the Gentiles into the body of Christ where there is neither Jew or Gentile to the, Jews is what got Paul stoned and put in prison.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should
be​

​

​

​

wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until
the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the
Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:​

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins

 

[mythunderstood]

It's perfectly clear that the Bible ascribes to the fact that God, has provided a way to receive His mercy and forgiveness. And that is through the "shed blood" of His Son... Eternal life can only be attained only "one" way. There's not several ways to God or even a few, there's "one. Jesus said, "I am the way." Christ did ALL the work and God expects us to place only, our faith in Christ...We are ALL sinners. Christ died for the sins of ALL mankind, but, we must place our faith in what He did. We must first "hear" about God's (free gift of eternal life) through the Bible. Next The Holy Spirit uses that truth to convict us of sin. Once we "realize" we are lost sinners headed for eternal separation from God and eternal punishment, we must make a decision to believe and put our faith in Jesus as our "ONLY" Lord and Savior. The Spirit indwells and seals us and we are now "Born-again Spiritually" and now am considered "a child of God." This process is entirely done by the Grace of God, it cannot be earned by doing "good works," being baptized, going to church regularly, or anything else. It is a gift of God, because He loved the world and made provision for the forgiveness of sins and He gave us eternal life with Him as well... We must receive Christ though faith, "individually." We are "sanctified" (cleansed) by the Holy Spirit (at the time we choose to put our faith in Christ) All are welcome to participate in this discussion...

I noticed that you put the word "hear" in quotes. What do you mean by the sentence above in red?

 

[glorydaz]

The mystery only refers to believers now having the same spiritual understanding as the prophets and, now (after Pentecost) the apostles. The prophets were inspired to write by the Spirit...it's the Spirit that gives understanding

I don't see where in Isiah chapter 42 or 46 that the Gentiles would be come the body of Christ.

Preaching the salvation of Gentiles by grace through faith and the placing of the Gentiles into the body of Christ where there is neither Jew or Gentile to the, Jews is what got Paul stoned and put in prison.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should
be​

​

​

​

wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until
the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the
Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:​

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins

That's why Paul said it was a mystery (to the Jews) as they had been blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles come. It was there for them to see, but they just couldn't see it.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

In my experience those who promote these type of verses don't understand them...let's see!

We are being kept by the power of God (grace) through faith (obedience) unto the salvation to come.

If people have a hard time with this statement is because they think that God is looking for non-obedient opportunistic ones who don't want commandments but only suggestions.

It's funny how, if you disagree with someone else's faith, then you say, "you misunderstood or misinterpreted," or such "rationalization." Do you realize you might as well come out and say, "you're not to smart" because that's what your actually saying, thinking, and meaning...Think about that...

 

[reba]

2.5: Respect each others' opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

I noticed that you put the word "hear" in quotes. What do you mean by the sentence above in red?

It simply means that, in order for someone to believe in the Gospel, they have to "hear" about it first. The Bible states, Romans 10:14--- "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"

 

[mythunderstood]

It simply means that, in order for someone to believe in the Gospel, they have to "hear" about it first. The Bible states, Romans 10:14--- "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"

I'm not asking for a bible verse. I'm asking what do you literally think it means when you say that someone must hear the gospel?

 

[Grubal Muruch]

I'm not asking for a bible verse. I'm asking what do you literally think it means when you say that someone must hear the gospel?

They must hear from a source such a Pastor, evangelist, a Christian, the Bible directly, etc,. The message that God's Grace has been offered to a world of lost sinners, and God has made the "provision" for access to His mercy and forgiveness, through His Son...

 

[mythunderstood]

They must hear from a source such a Pastor, evangelist, a Christian, the Bible directly, etc,. The message that God's Grace has been offered to a world of lost sinners, and God has made the "provision" for access to His mercy and forgiveness, through His Son...

ok....so then you say: "Next The Holy Spirit uses that truth to convict us of sin."

Do you think that the Holy Spirit convicts everyone who "hears" (is exposed to/presented with) the gospel?

 

[Grubal Muruch]

ok....so then you say: "Next The Holy Spirit uses that truth to convict us of sin."

Do you think that the Holy Spirit convicts everyone who "hears" (is exposed to/presented with) the gospel?

Affirmative...