For Who Did Christ Die? by John Owen

[JLB]

An unregenerated person cannot do this on their own, it is the work of Holy Spirit, a gift from God.

I agree the Holy Spirit works with a person who hears the Gospel, to enable or empower them to confess Jesus Christ as Lord.

Grace is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.

However, this occurs when the Gospel truth is preached.

The preaching of the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.


For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16



No Gospel. No salvation.

No Jesus. No salvation.

Know Jesus. Know salvation.

 

[electedbyhim]

How does a person become born again, regenerated, without hearing and believing the Gospel?

One has to be regenerated by the holy Spirirt to believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Put it this way.

I have heard the gospel of Christ hundreds of times. I never believed when I heard the gospel.

When it was God's timing for me, His Spririt regenerated me to believe, only then could I believe.

Does that make sense?

 

[electedbyhim]

I agree the Holy Spirit works with a person who hears the Gospel, to enable or empower them to confess Jesus Christ as Lord.

Grace is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.

However, this occurs when the Gospel truth is preached.

The preaching of the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.


For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16



No Gospel. No salvation.

No Jesus. No salvation.

Know Jesus. Know salvation.

Millions of people hear the gospel and are not saved.

 

[brightfame52]

Elect is not mentioned in John 3:16.

The world is what is mentioned.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

The condition for the world to receive everlasting life is to believe.



Do you believe the world = elect?




JLB

Election is implied, Gods Love is to His Elect in Jn 3:16. If God so loved people its because they were His chosen people. For instance God loved jacob and hated esau in His Purpose of Election Rom 9:11-13

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Deut 7:6-8

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Gods Love is solely for His Elect, so the world in Jn 3 16 is His Loved Chosen ones

 

[Iconoclast]

Elect is not mentioned in John 3:16.

The world is what is mentioned.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

The condition for the world to receive everlasting life is to believe.



Do you believe the world = elect?




JLB

The scope of the offer is worldwide. Not all are elect. It is;

everyone believing=elect
Their believing demonstrates they were elected before time was

 

[JLB]

Millions of people hear the gospel and are not saved.

Yes, of course.

Only those who hear and believe are saved.

Believe is the condition for salvation.

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

 

[JLB]

Election is implied, Gods Love is to His Elect in Jn 3:16.

Another false statement.

Election nor elect is mentioned.

World = unsaved.

World does not mean elect by any stretch of the imagination.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


God loves the world of unsaved people, so much that He gave His only begotten Son to die on the cross for them.

Whosoever believes in Him shall receive everlasting life.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:17

 

[JLB]

The scope of the offer is worldwide. Not all are elect. It is;

everyone believing=elect
Their believing demonstrates they were elected before time was

Now all that is left is for you to post scripture that backs up each statement you made.

World does not refer to elect.

World refers to those who are unsaved.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

[brightfame52]

JLB

Believe is the condition for salvation.

False Christs Blood is, all of Salvation was conditioned on Him shedding His Blood. Believing in Him is the fruit/evidence that He shed His Blood for one. By His death He draws all for them He died for to believe in Him Jn 12:32

 

[brightfame52]

Another false statement.

Election nor elect is mentioned.

World = unsaved.

World does not mean elect by any stretch of the imagination.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


God loves the world of unsaved people, so much that He gave His only begotten Son to die on the cross for them.

Whosoever believes in Him shall receive everlasting life.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:17

Election is implied, Gods Love is to His Elect in Jn 3:16.

 

[brightfame52]

The scope of the offer is worldwide. Not all are elect. It is;

everyone believing=elect
Their believing demonstrates they were elected before time was

I dont think anything is offered, the scope of the preaching of Christ s world wide, but the Good news of the Gospel being believed will be particular to the elect.

 

[JLB]

JLB



False Christs Blood is, all of Salvation was conditioned on Him shedding His Blood. Believing in Him is the fruit/evidence that He shed His Blood for one. By His death He draws all for them He died for to believe in Him Jn 12:32

Please quote the scripture that teaches a person is saved without hearing and believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


Only those who believe are saved.

• that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

 

[JLB]

Election is implied, Gods Love is to His Elect in Jn 3:16.

Election is not implied nor mentioned in John 3:16

Believe is implied and mentioned.
Whoever is implied and mentioned.
World is mentioned and implied.

World = Lost

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

[brightfame52]

Please quote the scripture that teaches a person is saved without hearing and believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


Only those who believe are saved.

• that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

False Christs Blood is, all of Salvation was conditioned on Him shedding His Blood. Believing in Him is the fruit/evidence that He shed His Blood for one. By His death He draws all for them He died for to believe in Him Jn 12:32

 

[brightfame52]

Election is not implied nor mentioned in John 3:16

Believe is implied and mentioned.
Whoever is implied and mentioned.
World is mentioned and implied.

World = Lost

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Election is implied, Gods Love is to His Elect in Jn 3:16. If God so loved people its because they were His chosen people. For instance God loved jacob and hated esau in His Purpose of Election Rom 9:11-13

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Deut 7:6-8

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Gods Love is solely for His Elect, so the world in Jn 3 16 is His Loved Chosen ones

 

[Iconoclast]

I dont think anything is offered, the scope of the preaching of Christ s world wide, but the Good news of the Gospel being believed will be particular to the elect.

We differ on this BF, but I can live with the difference. I agree that the gospel of the kingdom and the salvation it produces is effectual only for the Elect by virtue of the Covenant of Redemption. What is known as "the free offer" of the gospel is made as the gospel is proclaimed. Jesus as surety and mediator of this Covenant guarantees it's success.He dies for All the Father gave to Him. No more, and No less.
The eternally planned gospel, unfolds in real time. What I mean is...while it is a 100% certainfrom the Divine stand-point, the elect are described in EPH2 in this way;
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

So all the parts bolded in red are descriptive of elect sinners , who existed as godless rebels, until the planned grace and mercy, given to them before time,[2tim.1:9] becomes effectual by the unseen work of the Spirit of God.

If I am incorrect with this in any way, obviously I would ask God to forgive me, and I would be fine with however God saves His elect sheep.To go beyond what I see written enters into philosophy which i do not feel necessary to speculate in that way.
I am thankful to God for His electing grace and mercy granted to us in so Great a salvation.

 

[JLB]

False Christs Blood is, all of Salvation was conditioned on Him shedding His Blood. Believing in Him is the fruit/evidence that He shed His Blood for one. By His death He draws all for them He died for to believe in Him Jn 12:32

Sorry but Romans 10:9-10 is not false but is scripture.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

"If" - denotes condition.

• if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Iconoclast

We differ on this BF, but I can live with the difference. I agree that the gospel of the kingdom and the salvation it produces is effectual only for the Elect by virtue of the Covenant of Redemption. What is known as "the free offer" of the gospel is made as the gospel is proclaimed.

There is a difference in preaching the Gospel, declaring the Testimony of God and making a offer.When the Gospel is preached the regenerated elect will receive it. Look at the book of Acts and the sermons, it was just declaring the Gospel, nothing about any offers being made. The Gospel when preached unto the elect if its their time to believe,the message by the power of the Holy Spirit will invade their heart and mind1 Thess 1:4-5

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

No offer friend !

 

[Iconoclast]

The Reformed Tradition On The Free Or Well-Meant Offer Of The Gospel - The Heidelblog

A commenter recently objected that there is no such thing as a Reformed tradition or history of the free or well-meant offer of the gospel. I reply: critics of the Reformed doctrine of the free or well-meant offer are entitled to their opinion and exegesis but they are not entitled…

heidelblog.net

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry but Romans 10:9-10 is not false but is scripture.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

"If" - denotes condition.

• if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

JLB

That passage is about the Elect and assurance and they are already born again, the word is in their heart already Vs 8

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

The preached word/rehma isnt in the heart of the unregenerate nor in their mouth,

So their is no conditions to get saved here, sorry

Paul had said already in Chapter 9 of Romans that only a remnant will be saved Rom 9:27

Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: