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Forever Secure

netchaplain

Member
There’s nothing more encouraging and comforting than realizing that at rebirth, believers have all they will ever require to be pronounced innocent before Christ’s judgment seat! I often wonder how many believers there are who may at least wish or hope that rebirth is permanent. One truth is certain, it requires God to give the understanding that there is nothing He does in Christ that is not permanent! Unless I’m wrong, I have yet to encounter anything in His Word that appears to refute this issue. Yes, there is a change in the manner of dispensing His plans and mind between the OT and the NT, but this only concerns Him revealing more of His mind in all He is going do.

In His choosing Israel to be the first dispensing of the revelation of Himself to man, He has retained those who believed in Him (Jn 14:1), and the Jews who believe in Him at His last coming, them God will also retain and complete His plans for them in the Millennium. The only changes God makes are those concerning the manner of the dispensation He chooses to use to reveal His will. I have learned though, that the primary delay in understanding the issue of permanent security in Christ is in attempting to attribute to ourselves (other than receiving) anything that either effects and retains salvation.

It’s clear to all that only God effects salvation, but I believe the fullness of this understanding is gauged in how we comprehend its retention (afto pou paragei apokleistika, diatirei apo mono tou; what solely produces, solely retains; literal: what it produces exclusively, it maintains on its own). The Scriptural order is that salvation procures works, and not the inverse (believing and receiving are not works but gifts). Works manifest and not produces! James 2:24 “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified.” In this context, “justified” is defined as “to show or manifest one is righteous.” Not “to make one righteous,” as in Rom 8:33, “It is God who justifies.”
NC (apologize for the winded prologue)



Forever Secure

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” (Ro 8:1). If this can be successfully shown, many a doubt will disappear from weary hearts. In turning to John 5:24, we see “Hath everlasting life, and shall not come into judgement, but is passed from death into life.”

Who has the authority to pronounce absolute unconditional security of the believer and to guarantee immunity from coming judgement? None other than the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Quickener of the dead! His right and authority to announce beforehand the ultimate destiny of His own is unquestionable. Instead of standing in the dock as sinners and rebels, we shall sit on the bench as judges (1Co 6:2, 3).

At the Rapture, the believers are raised in glory (1Co 15:43). Consider the absurdity of believers in their glorified bodies, crowned and robed, morally and physically like the glorified Lord Jesus, standing trial before Him to see if they are fit for heaven and glory. A mere casual examination of the Scriptures must reverse such a conclusion.

The Judge was once God’s victim on the Cross for our sin (2Co 5:21). He bore our judgment, divine judgment due us. Our trial and judgment at Calvary are long since passed (since eternity past He’s known who will be His—NC). We are completely beyond judgment as is the Judge Himself. “Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the “Day of Judgment,” because as He is, so are we in this world (1Jn 4:17).

The feeblest and weakest of the Lord’s own are as safe from judgment as is Christ. Do not permit your assurance to be shaken by either your thoughts of unfitness, or the use of certain passages of Scripture that are wrested from their meaning and applied by blind leaders of the blind to undermine themselves and others.

We refer to such Scriptures as Matthew 24:13: “But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” An examination of the context will immediately clear up any doubt as to the meaning of this Scripture. There are dispensational differences in the Word, and this one has to do with the tribulation period.

Then, many have been troubled by Hebrews 6:1-12. This Epistle was written to Jewish professors who had renounced Judaism and turned to Christianity. These were in danger of apostasy from Christianity; therefore, there would be nothing else to turn to but a fearful looking forward to judgment (10:27). Verses 9 and 10 (chp. 6) show true believers, while the others were mere professors and not believers at all.

Condemnation is future and necessarily succeeds judgment. Romans 8:1 states no judgment and no condemnation. What a glorious position for the believer!


Unknown



 
"No condemnation" is conditionally found "in Christ". There is condemnation to those that fall away from Christ.

Question: Can a Christian steal from his neighbor, from his creditors, etc and still be saved?
 
"No condemnation" is conditionally found "in Christ". There is condemnation to those that fall away from Christ.

Question: Can a Christian steal from his neighbor, from his creditors, etc and still be saved?
Yes. The question is why would a Christian want to steal from their neighbor?

This verse is from the Bema Seat Judgement....If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. 1 Col 3:15.

If you as a Christian steal from your neighbor your "work" will be burned up and you will suffer loss....but as the verse says, you will be saved.
 
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” (Ro 8:1). If this can be successfully shown, many a doubt will disappear from weary hearts. In turning to John 5:24, we see “Hath everlasting life, and shall not come into judgement, but is passed from death into life.”

Successfully showing Romans 8:1 is quoting the whole scripture, not part of it.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


Those who walk according to the Spirit are secure in their salvation and will continue to be secure as they continue to walk according to the Spirit.


For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:5-6


  • For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14


  • For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
  • but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.



JLB
 
Question: Can a Christian steal from his neighbor, from his creditors, etc and still be saved?

Yes he can, if he repents.

If he asks God to forgive him.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9



JLB
 
Yes. The question is why would a Christian want to steal from their neighbor?

This verse is from the Bema Seat Judgement....If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. 1 Col 3:15.

If you as a Christian steal from your neighbor your "work" will be burned up and you will suffer loss....but as the verse says, you will be saved.
According to you, a person can be a thief and still be saved. But that idea contradicts verses as 1 Cor 6:10 that says thieves SHALL NOT inherit the kingdom of God...no exceptions.

I have people, (those that believe in OSAS), to personally steal from me before. I have complained to other OSASers they are giving people a free pass to steal from me (and others) yet they do not want to take any responsibility, accountability for the stealing that they are giving people a free pass to do. Do you, will you take accountability for those that steal?

=========================================

In the context of 1 Cor 3 the "work" refers to converts/Christians.

1 Cor 1:13-15 "Every man's work (convert) shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work (convert) abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work (convert) shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

=========================================


I have other OSASers turned to 1 Jn 2:19 and use this verse to "prove" those "Christians" that steal, their stealing proves they were never really saved in the first place.

So those Christians that steal be saved anyway per 1 Cor 3:15 or never really saved per 2 Jn 2:19?
 
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Yes he can, if he repents.

If he asks God to forgive him.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9



JLB
Repentance therefore makes salvation CONDITIONAL and not UNconditional as OSAS wrongly claims.
 
Successfully showing Romans 8:1 is quoting the whole scripture, not part of it.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


Those who walk according to the Spirit are secure in their salvation and will continue to be secure as they continue to walk according to the Spirit.


For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:5-6


  • For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14


  • For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
  • but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.



JLB

JLB, the problem I have with that theology is that we often find ourselves not walking in the Spirit but rather according to our flesh.
This would mean we fall into and out of salvation all the time...or...there is a threshold we have to cross or accumulate as we walk in the flesh before we no longer have "no condemnation"
 
Yes he can, if he repents.

If he asks God to forgive him.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9



JLB

Yikes..that's a scary theology where no one is saved unless you just got done asking for forgiveness then die. As we all know we will sin again.

I see cleanse us from all unrighteousness....as any future unrighteousness.
 
Repentance therefore makes salvation CONDITIONAL and not UNconditional as OSAS wrongly claims.
There are two forms of repentance.
The initial repentance when we realize we are sinners and need Jesus' blood to wash away those sins. Basically saying I don't want to do it my way anymore God.

Then there is repentance of things that are sin that we do day in and day out as the Holy Spirit sanctifies us.

It's comforting to know that if you are saved you can't be snatched from the Fathers or Jesus' hands.
 
JLB, the problem I have with that theology is that we often find ourselves not walking in the Spirit but rather according to our flesh.
This would mean we fall into and out of salvation all the time...or...there is a threshold we have to cross or accumulate as we walk in the flesh before we no longer have "no condemnation"

Those are verses from Romans 8.

It's not my theology.

Its God’s word.



JLB
 
Yikes..that's a scary theology where no one is saved unless you just got done asking for forgiveness then die. As we all know we will sin again.

I see cleanse us from all unrighteousness....as any future unrighteousness.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:7-10


Is this written to Christians or unbelievers?
 
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:7-10


Is this written to Christians or unbelievers?
Both.
For the most part it sounds like new Christians.
 
Yes, they are words from Romans 8..yes it's Gods word.....I just challenge the interpretation.

What interpretation?


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


JLB
 
Both.
For the most part it sounds like new Christians.

New Christians, Old Christians. For sure.

Unbelievers? No sir.

Do unbelievers have the ability to walk in the light?

The answer is no.

Believers, Christians, have the ability to walk in the light.


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:7-10

  • If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


If a Christian confesses their sin, He is faithful and just to forgive us.

This is for believers not unbelievers.


JLB
 
There are two forms of repentance.
The initial repentance when we realize we are sinners and need Jesus' blood to wash away those sins. Basically saying I don't want to do it my way anymore God.

Then there is repentance of things that are sin that we do day in and day out as the Holy Spirit sanctifies us.

This repentance "of things that are sin we do day in and day out" is part of the required walking in the light (1 Jn 1:7) that must CONDITIONALLY CONTINUALLY be done to have all sins washed away. "IF" one quits walking in the light, then his sins no longer cleansed away by the blood of Christ becomes lost.

Cygnus said:
It's comforting to know that if you are saved you can't be snatched from the Fathers or Jesus' hands.
As long as one CONDITIONALLY CONTINUES to hear and follow Christ (Jn 10:27) he will not be snatched from God's hands. "IF" one quits hearing and following Christ he no longer qualifies as a sheep of Christ and he removes himself from God's hands.
 
What interpretation?


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


JLB
You make it sound like..if you sin, walking according to the flesh...you lose your salvation.

If that's not what you're saying then you should explain.
 
New Christians, Old Christians. For sure.

Unbelievers? No sir.

Do unbelievers have the ability to walk in the light?

The answer is no.

Believers, Christians, have the ability to walk in the light.


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:7-10

  • If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


If a Christian confesses their sin, He is faithful and just to forgive us.

This is for believers not unbelievers.


JLB

If you back up to verse 3 you read.... 3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Kinda sounds like some of them may not have been saved.
 
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