Forever Secure

[Jethro Bodine]

...NO WHERE does the verse say if you step out of the light you will lose your salvation.

That is clearly shown to us here (among other places):

"24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life." - 1 John 2:24-25

It's a condition. If what you heard from the beginning remains in you, you will remain in the Son and the Father. He's speaking to believers (see the context). If the word automatically remained in the believer, no matter what, his exhortation to these believers is meaningless.

What you have to do is stop making these verses, and others like it, not really mean what they say in order to protect your misunderstanding of other passages you are sure teach OSAS. It's just a matter of honesty. I know OSAS tickles the ears, especially Freegrace OSAS. I mean, who wouldn't like a doctrine that relieves you of any and all responsibility in salvation--even the responsibility to believe, but it simply isn't true.

At the same time that OSAS is destroying the church in this present time and leading people into the deceitfulness of dead faith, it is, ultimately, also setting steadfast believers who want to persevere in the faith to the very end apart from the false. I believe it is that kind of person--the kind that wants to persevere in the word and in fruitfulness--who will eventually hear the truth about OSAS and reject it.

 

[Cygnus]

Faith is the supernatural ability to know something is true that you can't know is true on your own.
God gives that supernatural ability as a free gift.
That all by itself can't save a flea.
You must then place your trust in what God has graciously shown you to be true in order to be saved.
YOU do that. And that's not a work of self righteousness.
Paul says trusting in Christ for justification is in stark CONTRAST to doing the works of the law for justification.
But somehow our dear friend Calvin placed trusting in Christ on the side of the works that can not justify and has mislead countless numbers of people into the doctrine that is now destroying the church in these end times.

Why would one person trust in Christ and another not?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why would one person trust in Christ and another not?

Some love the fruit of unrighteousness.
Some simply have too much pride to admit they are in the wrong.
Either way they love unrighteousness more than righteousness.

 

[Cygnus]

That is clearly shown to us here (among other places):

"24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life." - 1 John 2:24-25

It's a condition. If what you heard from the beginning remains in you, you will remain in the Son and the Father. He's speaking to believers (see the context). If the word automatically remained in the believer, no matter what, his exhortation to these believers is meaningless.

What you have to do is stop making these verses, and others like it, not really mean what they say in order to protect your misunderstanding of other passages you are sure teach OSAS. It's just a matter of honesty. I know OSAS tickles the ears, especially Freegrace OSAS. I mean, who wouldn't like a doctrine that relieves you of any and all responsibility in salvation--even the responsibility to believe, but it simply isn't true.

At the same time that OSAS is destroying the church in this present time and leading people into the deceitfulness of dead faith, it is, ultimately, also setting steadfast believers who want to persevere in the faith to the very end apart from the false. I believe it is that kind of person--the kind that wants to persevere in the word and in fruitfulness--who will eventually hear the truth about OSAS and reject it.

The verse describes a believer. If the gospel you have heard abides, remains in you...that is if you didn't reject it...if it is in you, then you are in the Son and Father.

Doesn't God love those who are in Him? Doesn't God say nothing can separate you from His love?

Your works based, merit salvation is what is misleading people. Your salvation is not a free gift.

 

[Cygnus]

Some love the fruit of unrighteousness.
Some simply have too much pride to admit they are in the wrong.
Either way they love unrighteousness more than righteousness.

OK, why do they like the fruit of the unrighteous? Why are they prideful? The answer is that's what life taught them.

Basically Jethro you're teaching your own particular walk in life...the bias you picked up along the way...is what determins if you're going to be saved or not.

 

[netchaplain]

Yes, God gives the gift of faith by which a person can then believe and be saved.
But the believing/ trusting that a person does in response to God's gift of faith is what you do.

Amen, that's also what faith is for, "do His good pleasure" (Phl 2:13 ; Eph 2:10). If there's no doing, there's no faith, because faith is always manifested (justified) by works (fruit) of the Spirit.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The verse describes a believer. If the gospel you have heard abides, remains in you...that is if you didn't reject it...if it is in you, then you are in the Son and Father.

Yes. It is descriptive of a believer.
Not one who stops believing.
The one who stops believing will no longer abide in the Son and the Father and have the promise of eternal life.

Doesn't God love those who are in Him? Doesn't God say nothing can separate you from His love?

The obvious implication from the assurance that nothing can separate you from Christ is that you want to stay in Christ in the first place (read the passage). We have other scripture that talks about you yourself walking away from Christ. The Galatians did. The Corinthians did. The Hebrew church was playing with doing that. There are warnings in scripture about doing that because, yes, you yourself can stop believing.

Your works based, merit salvation is what is misleading people. Your salvation is not a free gift.

Since when is the necessity to trust in Christ a works gospel?????
Can you share the passage that says that, please?
I showed you the passage that says believing/trusting in Christ is not works and is in fact diametrically opposed to the works gospel.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Amen, that's also what faith is for, "do His good pleasure" (Phl 2:13 ; Eph 2:10). If there's no doing, there's no faith, because faith is always manifested (justified) by works (fruit) of the Spirit.

No, no, no. You missed it.
Trusting in Christ is what we do in order to be saved.
That's what I'm talking about.
This has nothing to do with doing good works.

Faith is simply the necessary proof that God gives that the gospel really is true.
That knowledge never saved anybody. And it never will.
It's putting your trust in what you now know to be true that saves.
YOU do that trusting.
God does not do your trusting for you.
He gives the faith/confidence you need to do your trusting, but he does not do your trusting for you.
And if you stop trusting in the gospel you will be lost.
That is NOT a works gospel. Paul plainly said so.
You have been mislead.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

OK, why do they like the fruit of the unrighteous? Why are they prideful? The answer is that's what life taught them.

Ultimately, it's the type of soil that you are.
Some soil simply won't receive the word.
Other soil simply won't retain it.
Still other soil can't bring it to fruition because of the junk growing along side of it.
And then there is the soil in which the word is able to be received and retained and which does bring the word of God to fruition.

Basically Jethro you're teaching your own particular walk in life...the bias you picked up along the way...is what determins if you're going to be saved or not.

My bias comes from the scriptures themselves.
I realized OSAS makes the scriptures not really mean what they say.
It was just a matter of honesty.
I had to be honest that I was believing doctrines invented by men to make the plain words of the Bible not really mean what they say and to defend an ear tickling doctrine about man being relieved of any and all responsibility in salvation, even believing, lol!

 

[netchaplain]

And if you stop trusting in the gospel you will be lost.
That is NOT a works gospel.

You won't be ultimately misled once you have faith in Christ. The saved can't be misled (Mat 24:24)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You won't be ultimately misled once you have faith in Christ. The saved can't be misled (Mat 24:24)

Those who want to continue to believe can not be mislead.
Present tense believers are the ones that can not be mislead.
You will believe OSAS doctrine because you want to, not because you're a true believer.

Even true believers can decide not to believe the truth and choose to be deceived by default.
Every time a person rejects the truth they are shown about being able to lose salvation they harden themselves a little bit more in the lie they have chosen to believe. Until they reach the point where they can't hear the truth anymore. I think that's where most OSASer's I've talked to are at. I don't share for their benefit. They can't hear the truth anymore. I share for the person listening on the sidelines who is still open and pliable to the truth. But the closer we get to the end the fewer of those there are. I won't be doing this for too much longer. We are at the end, IMO. The leaven is almost done working it's way through the whole batch of dough.

 

[Cygnus]

Ultimately, it's the type of soil that you are.
Some soil simply won't receive the word.
Other soil simply won't retain it.
Still other soil can't bring it to fruition because of the junk growing along side of it.
And then there is the soil in which the word is able to be received and retained and which does bring the word of God to fruition.


My bias comes from the scriptures themselves.
I realized OSAS makes the scriptures not really mean what they say.
It was just a matter of honesty.
I had to be honest that I was believing doctrines invented by men to make the plain words of the Bible not really mean what they say and to defend an ear tickling doctrine about man being relieved of any and all responsibility in salvation, even believing, lol!

You're not really doing a good job of answering the question. What makes you the type of soil you are?

I wouldn't call it ear tickling..as the bible clearly teaches you can't be snatched nor separated from the love of God.

But, if you need your works based salvation to save you and keep you saved..then I suppose your religion teaches Jesus wasn't enough.

The difference is I strive to walk in the light, do good things so I can Glorify God...NOT...in hopes I earn enough brownie points to get saved or remain saved.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You're not really doing a good job of answering the question. What makes you the type of soil you are?

That just comes down to who you are as a person.
God didn't purposely determine what kind of soil people will have.
It's just a matter of who you are as a person.
How you respond to the word reveals what kind of potential your soil has, and thus, what kind of person you will be.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I wouldn't call it ear tickling..as the bible clearly teaches you can't be snatched nor separated from the love of God.

Of course it says that, and it's true.

What you're adding to it, in defiance of the rest of scripture is it means you yourself can't stop believing and depart from God. Or, if you're Freegrace, that it doesn't matter if you stop believing. The point is, there is nothing that can separate the person who wants to be saved and remain saved from their salvation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But, if you need your works based salvation to save you and keep you saved..then I suppose your religion teaches Jesus wasn't enough.

You're the one not answering questions well enough.
I asked you to show me where trusting in Christ is a works gospel.
I showed you where it plainly says it is not.

It's Jesus + BELIEVING. Not Jesus + nothing at all.
You are believing the lie that is somehow a works gospel.
If it is, surely you would be able to show me that in the scriptures.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The difference is I strive to walk in the light, do good things so I can Glorify God...NOT...in hopes I earn enough brownie points to get saved or remain saved.

I haven't said anything like that.

I say you must continue to believe in order to continue to be saved.
No works brownie points involved.
You have been deceived into thinking 'believing' is 'working'.

 

[Cygnus]

Of course it says that, and it's true.

What you're adding to it, in defiance of the rest of scripture is it means you yourself can't stop believing and depart from God. Or, if you're Freegrace, that it doesn't matter if you stop believing. The point is, there is nothing that can separate the person who wants to be saved and remain saved from their salvation.

Once again you have posted something that is not in the bible....." there is nothing that can separate the person who wants to be saved and remain saved from their salvation."

 

[JLB]

Yes, if you walk in the light the blood of Christ washes away our sins. Only Christ followers...believers..have the ability to walk in the light. It is what happens to believers...NO WHERE does the verse say if you step out of the light you will lose your salvation.

This is how you add to the verse.....

• if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If you walk in the darkness and have no fellowship with one another the blood of His Son will stop cleaning you from sin.

Brother, why would say such a thing?

You don’t get to misrepresent me, or anyone else at this Forum, sir.

This is a warning. Don’t make up things I didn’t say and claim I added those words to the verse.

DONT DO THIS AGAIN.

This is how you add to the verse.....

• if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If you walk in the darkness and have no fellowship with one another the blood of His Son will stop cleaning you from sin.

This is a flagrant violation of the TOS.

Copy and paste what I actually wrote.

Don’t make up something I didn’t write, and add it to the verse as if those were my words.

That’s called a lie!



JLB

 

[Cygnus]

That just comes down to who you are as a person.
God didn't purposely determine what kind of soil people will have.
It's just a matter of who you are as a person.
How you respond to the word reveals what kind of potential your soil has, and thus, what kind of person you will be.

Bogus....think about it....who you are as a person is based upon life events. What you've seen, where you've been, who you've met etc.. According to free-willism depending upon the cards life dealt you, you may or may not become a believer. Salvation is based upon Gods purpose not your lifestyle.

 

[Cygnus]

You're the one not answering questions well enough.
I asked you to show me where trusting in Christ is a works gospel.
I showed you where it plainly says it is not.

It's Jesus + BELIEVING. Not Jesus + nothing at all.
You are believing the lie that is somehow a works gospel.
If it is, surely you would be able to show me that in the scriptures.

When you think it was your decision to trust then it is a type of work....when God gives you the gift of faith to trust then it is a work of God.