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savedbygrace57
Guest
See Post 1014. Rehearse each point with me !
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
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See Post 1014. Rehearse each point with me !
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Salvation is by Grace ! cont
To believe in Salvation by Grace through faith, we must understand, acknowledge that this Grace was given the Elect of God in Christ Jesus before the World Began 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
And these are those predestinated, preserved and foreknown, which Christ came to save. Its the Sovereign Election of particular individual's to Grace and Glory !
To believe in Salvation by Grace through faith, we must understand, acknowledge that this Grace was given the Elect of God in Christ Jesus before the World Began 2 Tim 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
And these are those predestinated, preserved and foreknown, which Christ came to save. Its the Sovereign Election of particular individual's to Grace and Glory !
Johnw
Member
I fully understand your point. Though if many were to read 2 Tim 1:9 and believe that the Lord fore-chose those He would save while others were to perish, and some were to receive His grace while others were merely pawns, would it not cause the multitudes to simply give up? Knowing that no matter how much they want to be a follower of Christ, and no matter how much they cried out to the Lord, they would never be forgiven? Maybe those that do cry out are the chosen ones, and those who simply continue on their own paths were never chosen in the first place.
Matthew 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it."
Matthew 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it."
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Saviour of the World !
Jn 4:42
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
Does this mean that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all without exception ? Not at all, for many are never granted Repentance unto Life Acts 11:18, but only those who repent have been given Repentance, and by whom, by their Prince and Saviour Acts 5:31
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Israel is His Elect World of jew and gentile sheep , His Body the Church !
Only those comprise or make up the World that Christ is the Saviour of. Its made up of all those Lost Sheep He sought and found, and they as a result of Him finding them Repented Lk 15:1-7
Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,
4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
This Lost Sheep of His He found effects the sheep's repentance, notice it was found before mention made of its repentance ! The repentance was evidence of having been found by the Seeking Shepherd !
And so it is with every member of that World Christ is the Saviour of !
Jn 4:42
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
Does this mean that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all without exception ? Not at all, for many are never granted Repentance unto Life Acts 11:18, but only those who repent have been given Repentance, and by whom, by their Prince and Saviour Acts 5:31
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Israel is His Elect World of jew and gentile sheep , His Body the Church !
Only those comprise or make up the World that Christ is the Saviour of. Its made up of all those Lost Sheep He sought and found, and they as a result of Him finding them Repented Lk 15:1-7
Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,
4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
This Lost Sheep of His He found effects the sheep's repentance, notice it was found before mention made of its repentance ! The repentance was evidence of having been found by the Seeking Shepherd !
And so it is with every member of that World Christ is the Saviour of !
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
See Post 1014. Rehearse each point with me !
Johnw
Member
As you wish, we shall take a closer look at each of these passages you have used.
First, let us look at Galatians 3:13- The King James version puts it this way; “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:”
John Gill, the English Baptist pastor, biblical scholar, and theologian who held to a firm Calvinistic soteriology explains it in this manner, and I quote “The Redeemer is Christ, the Son of God; who was appointed and called to this work by his Father, and which he himself agreed to; he was spoken of in prophecy under this character; he came as such, and has obtained eternal redemption, for which he was abundantly qualified; as man, he was a near kinsman, to whom the right of redemption belonged; and as God, he was able to accomplish it. The persons redeemed are "us", God's elect, both of Jews and Gentiles; a peculiar people, the people of Christ, whom the Father gave unto him; some out of every kindred, tongue, people, and nation: the blessing obtained for them is redemption; a buying of them again, as the word signifies; they were his before by the Father's gift, and now he purchases them with the price of his own blood, and so delivers them "from the curse of the law"; its sentence of condemnation and death, and the execution of it; so that they shall never be hurt by it, he having delivered them from wrath to come, and redeemed from the second death, the lake which burns with fire and brimstone. The manner in which this was done was by being made a curse for us; the sense of which is, not only that he was like an accursed person, looked upon as such by the men of that wicked generation, who hid and turned away their faces from as an abominable execrable person, calling him a sinner, a Samaritan, and a devil; but was even accursed by the law; becoming the surety of his people, he was made under the law, stood in their legal place and stead and having the sins of them all imputed to him, and answerable for them, the law finding them on him, charges him with them, and curses him for them; yea, he was treated as such by the justice of God, even by his Father, who spared him not, awoke the sword of justice against him, and gave him up into his hands; delivered him up to death, even the accursed death of the cross, whereby it appeared that he was made a curse: "made", by the will, counsel, and determination of God, and not without his own will and free consent; for he freely laid down his life, and gave himself, and made his soul an offering for sin:”
The statement contained within this verse “cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree:” is in reference to Deuteronomy 21:23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
(It is understood to be any and everyone that was hanged, and not of the rebellious son only, which they used to refer to Jesus Christ, for they did not wish to defile the land “Israel”, which the Lord had given them.)
Returning to the passage of Galatians 3:13, Christ hath redeemed us - The word used here ἐξηγόρασεν, exēgorasen is not that which is usually employed in the New Testament to denote redemption. That word is λυτρόω, lutroō. The difference between them mainly is that the word used here more usually relates to a purchase of any kind; the other is used strictly with reference to a ransom.
So in other words, Christ purchased us through the shedding of His blood. Once purchased, we no longer belong to ourselves, (the world) but as property of the King. As property, we no longer live under the law but under Christ. Many Christians are confused by the verse Rom 6:14 “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.” It is not referring to man’s law, but to the law of the spirit, as it states in Rom 8:2 “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
We can continue to quote scripture after scripture, and weave verse after verse to make our point, yet the one thing missing, and allow me to reiterate, is the basic human understanding. The layman if you will. I can stand behind the pulpit and recite God’s word, hoping that those who lend an ear may understand. How many actually do? How many nod their head in agreement, yet walk away without a clear understanding? There are far too many “human” interpretations of God’s word. We try and convince each other that what we preach is truly what the Lord intended. I believe that I asked from you to bring it into layman’s terms, yet you wished nothing more than to “rehearse” the scriptures. I did however state that I understood you, as I actually do. I was merely seeing if you too were having the same difficulty as I. My apologies brother, but it appears that is the case. I have come to realize that people don’t want scripture shoved down their throats; they want to understand it in a way which is palatable to them, there in lays the rub.
First, let us look at Galatians 3:13- The King James version puts it this way; “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:”
John Gill, the English Baptist pastor, biblical scholar, and theologian who held to a firm Calvinistic soteriology explains it in this manner, and I quote “The Redeemer is Christ, the Son of God; who was appointed and called to this work by his Father, and which he himself agreed to; he was spoken of in prophecy under this character; he came as such, and has obtained eternal redemption, for which he was abundantly qualified; as man, he was a near kinsman, to whom the right of redemption belonged; and as God, he was able to accomplish it. The persons redeemed are "us", God's elect, both of Jews and Gentiles; a peculiar people, the people of Christ, whom the Father gave unto him; some out of every kindred, tongue, people, and nation: the blessing obtained for them is redemption; a buying of them again, as the word signifies; they were his before by the Father's gift, and now he purchases them with the price of his own blood, and so delivers them "from the curse of the law"; its sentence of condemnation and death, and the execution of it; so that they shall never be hurt by it, he having delivered them from wrath to come, and redeemed from the second death, the lake which burns with fire and brimstone. The manner in which this was done was by being made a curse for us; the sense of which is, not only that he was like an accursed person, looked upon as such by the men of that wicked generation, who hid and turned away their faces from as an abominable execrable person, calling him a sinner, a Samaritan, and a devil; but was even accursed by the law; becoming the surety of his people, he was made under the law, stood in their legal place and stead and having the sins of them all imputed to him, and answerable for them, the law finding them on him, charges him with them, and curses him for them; yea, he was treated as such by the justice of God, even by his Father, who spared him not, awoke the sword of justice against him, and gave him up into his hands; delivered him up to death, even the accursed death of the cross, whereby it appeared that he was made a curse: "made", by the will, counsel, and determination of God, and not without his own will and free consent; for he freely laid down his life, and gave himself, and made his soul an offering for sin:”
The statement contained within this verse “cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree:” is in reference to Deuteronomy 21:23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
(It is understood to be any and everyone that was hanged, and not of the rebellious son only, which they used to refer to Jesus Christ, for they did not wish to defile the land “Israel”, which the Lord had given them.)
Returning to the passage of Galatians 3:13, Christ hath redeemed us - The word used here ἐξηγόρασεν, exēgorasen is not that which is usually employed in the New Testament to denote redemption. That word is λυτρόω, lutroō. The difference between them mainly is that the word used here more usually relates to a purchase of any kind; the other is used strictly with reference to a ransom.
So in other words, Christ purchased us through the shedding of His blood. Once purchased, we no longer belong to ourselves, (the world) but as property of the King. As property, we no longer live under the law but under Christ. Many Christians are confused by the verse Rom 6:14 “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.” It is not referring to man’s law, but to the law of the spirit, as it states in Rom 8:2 “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
We can continue to quote scripture after scripture, and weave verse after verse to make our point, yet the one thing missing, and allow me to reiterate, is the basic human understanding. The layman if you will. I can stand behind the pulpit and recite God’s word, hoping that those who lend an ear may understand. How many actually do? How many nod their head in agreement, yet walk away without a clear understanding? There are far too many “human” interpretations of God’s word. We try and convince each other that what we preach is truly what the Lord intended. I believe that I asked from you to bring it into layman’s terms, yet you wished nothing more than to “rehearse” the scriptures. I did however state that I understood you, as I actually do. I was merely seeing if you too were having the same difficulty as I. My apologies brother, but it appears that is the case. I have come to realize that people don’t want scripture shoved down their throats; they want to understand it in a way which is palatable to them, there in lays the rub.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Only for the Children !
When the Lord Jesus Christ became flesh and blood to die and to destroy the works of the devil, also taking on our sins, it was not ,for all mankind in general, but it was for the Children of God, or as the writer of Hebrews states it, The Children Heb 2:14
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
The Children given to Christ Vs 13 !
For Christ in this was manifestly made made one with the Children or His Body, and it was to be through His Death that He would deliver, not all mankind without exception, but the Children, whom had been taken captive by the devil in Adam, so to deliver them from the fear of death, by destroying the works of the devil as it pertained to them, The Children !
When the Lord Jesus Christ became flesh and blood to die and to destroy the works of the devil, also taking on our sins, it was not ,for all mankind in general, but it was for the Children of God, or as the writer of Hebrews states it, The Children Heb 2:14
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
The Children given to Christ Vs 13 !
For Christ in this was manifestly made made one with the Children or His Body, and it was to be through His Death that He would deliver, not all mankind without exception, but the Children, whom had been taken captive by the devil in Adam, so to deliver them from the fear of death, by destroying the works of the devil as it pertained to them, The Children !
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
The Bread of Life !
Jn 6:48
I am that bread of life.
When Jesus speaks of those who hunger for the bread of Life or the bread from heaven Jn 6:47-51
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
If anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever He says in Vs 51, Jesus here is speaking here of those born of God or born from above, from where the Bread of Live cometh from Vs 50, and not of any who are merely born of the flesh or out of their earthy head adam, for in that case they are only earthy and so they will be in their feelings and affections and desires, attracted to bread from this earth, and heavenly bread they not acquired a taste for, but those who are born from above and by the Spirit, out of the Last Adam, their feelings, affections [hungering and thirsting] are heaven born, heavenly, hence the Bread from heaven is very desirable.
Those of the flesh partake only of a human nature which is fallen, and craves according to that nature, but those born of God, partake of a Divine, Heavenly Nature, and craves according to that Nature, and it is this Nature that Christ becomes the Living Bread from Heaven Jn 6:51
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Now what kind of Man would Eat the Living Bread ? A Living Man, A Man Born from Above !
Jn 6:48
I am that bread of life.
When Jesus speaks of those who hunger for the bread of Life or the bread from heaven Jn 6:47-51
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
If anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever He says in Vs 51, Jesus here is speaking here of those born of God or born from above, from where the Bread of Live cometh from Vs 50, and not of any who are merely born of the flesh or out of their earthy head adam, for in that case they are only earthy and so they will be in their feelings and affections and desires, attracted to bread from this earth, and heavenly bread they not acquired a taste for, but those who are born from above and by the Spirit, out of the Last Adam, their feelings, affections [hungering and thirsting] are heaven born, heavenly, hence the Bread from heaven is very desirable.
Those of the flesh partake only of a human nature which is fallen, and craves according to that nature, but those born of God, partake of a Divine, Heavenly Nature, and craves according to that Nature, and it is this Nature that Christ becomes the Living Bread from Heaven Jn 6:51
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Now what kind of Man would Eat the Living Bread ? A Living Man, A Man Born from Above !
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
He is Successful !
Lk 19:10
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Christ, the Son of Man here is not successful if Two things go undone, #1 To Seek that which was lost ntil He finds it, and #2 To save it when He finds it, If He doth not both, His Mission is a failure to the Father's Purpose for sending Him, For He should be able to say of all for whom He seeks that are Lost, when He finds them, as He said to Zacchaeus here Lk 19:9-10
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Lk 19:10
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Christ, the Son of Man here is not successful if Two things go undone, #1 To Seek that which was lost ntil He finds it, and #2 To save it when He finds it, If He doth not both, His Mission is a failure to the Father's Purpose for sending Him, For He should be able to say of all for whom He seeks that are Lost, when He finds them, as He said to Zacchaeus here Lk 19:9-10
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
ezra
Member
so your point is no matter how hard a lost person cries out to Jesus by faith from a true sincere heart .unless he has been elected to salvation .then the cry is in vain??????? yea or nay?
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
ezra
He is Successful !
Lk 19:10
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Christ, the Son of Man here is not successful if Two things go undone, #1 To Seek that which was lost ntil He finds it, and #2 To save it when He finds it, If He doth not both, His Mission is a failure to the Father's Purpose for sending Him, For He should be able to say of all for whom He seeks that are Lost, when He finds them, as He said to Zacchaeus here Lk 19:9-10
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Do you understand these points ? Rehearse them with me please !
Here's my point:
He is Successful !
Lk 19:10
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Christ, the Son of Man here is not successful if Two things go undone, #1 To Seek that which was lost ntil He finds it, and #2 To save it when He finds it, If He doth not both, His Mission is a failure to the Father's Purpose for sending Him, For He should be able to say of all for whom He seeks that are Lost, when He finds them, as He said to Zacchaeus here Lk 19:9-10
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Do you understand these points ? Rehearse them with me please !
ezra
Member
i asked you a direct question can a can a person seeking Christ for salvation be saved? yes or no i understand scripture and i understand how you see scripture.. so i ask a simple question with a yes or no answer from you... its not baited
.......
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
ezra
Stay on the points I made. Do you understand them ? What do you understand me saying in the post you quoted ?
Here's my point:
He is Successful !
Lk 19:10
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Christ, the Son of Man here is not successful if Two things go undone, #1 To Seek that which was lost ntil He finds it, and #2 To save it when He finds it, If He doth not both, His Mission is a failure to the Father's Purpose for sending Him, For He should be able to say of all for whom He seeks that are Lost, when He finds them, as He said to Zacchaeus here Lk 19:9-10
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Do you understand these points ? Rehearse them with me please !
Stay on the points I made. Do you understand them ? What do you understand me saying in the post you quoted ?
Here's my point:
He is Successful !
Lk 19:10
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Christ, the Son of Man here is not successful if Two things go undone, #1 To Seek that which was lost ntil He finds it, and #2 To save it when He finds it, If He doth not both, His Mission is a failure to the Father's Purpose for sending Him, For He should be able to say of all for whom He seeks that are Lost, when He finds them, as He said to Zacchaeus here Lk 19:9-10
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Do you understand these points ? Rehearse them with me please !
ezra
Member
i asked you a direct question can a can a person seeking Christ for
salvation be saved? grrr i know he is Successful ! i know he is able to save to the utter most.. i am asking You a direct question.. can a person seeking Christ for salvation from a pure heart.....be saved? i am asking for a yes or no..either give me a yes or no answer or don,t answer it at all. if you ask me a direct question i will give you a yes or no or i don,t know ..just give me answer i will make it easy if you dont want to answer yes or no... just say no comment
Messenger
Member
Hello ezra...please pardon me for interposing here; (and savedbygrace57 please offer me your correction if needed), but I believe that when savedbygrace57 says that "He is Successful!", I believe this person means that all those Christ had chosen, predestined and justified from eternity (Ephesians 1:3-11; Romans 3:24) will become saved, period, because God's will is perfect!
God's Word says, "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God" (Romans 3:11), because the heart of mankind is desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9). It is only when God gives his election of grace (Romans 11:5) a "new heart" (Ezekiel 36:26) will they seek Him in a way that leads to salvation. So, based on the Word of God, it is only once God saves a person will he cry out to God according to His perfect will...and God will answer Him.
ezra
Member
no pardon needed this is open all though it was directed to savedby grace i fully understand what he is saying in scripture.... my question to him or even you.. please note i simply need a yes or no reply.. can a person seeking salvation from a pure heart be saved. i worded it a bit different . but still same question.. . A. YES OR B. NO you see the answer you gave is Calvinistic teaching . i was looking for a yes or no reply... (Romans 10:9-10) *
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
messenger
Absolutely !
Absolutely !
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Here's my point:
He is Successful !
Lk 19:10
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Christ, the Son of Man here is not successful if Two things go undone, #1 To Seek that which was lost ntil He finds it, and #2 To save it when He finds it, If He doth not both, His Mission is a failure to the Father's Purpose for sending Him, For He should be able to say of all for whom He seeks that are Lost, when He finds them, as He said to Zacchaeus here Lk 19:9-10
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Do you understand these points ? Rehearse them with me please !
ezra
Member
you did a great job of avoiding the question. since you refuse to answer i will.if a person is truly seeking salvation from a pure heart-- YES THEY CAN BE SAVED WHO SO EVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.. the person is NOT regenerated before salvation. the change takes place the moment the prayer of confession by faith is made.