'Gay'-rights leader quits homosexuality

[Rick W]

2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds.

This is not a live and let live doctrine.
But again, forgiveness is a part of it, not tolerance.

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Luke 17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Notice also the one rebuked must ask forgiveness... not raising a fuss that the rebuke was unjust or wrong or offensive as many are apt to do.

In any case rebuke is part of a congregation's responsibility. (Again, so is forgiveness) If one wants to keep quiet or not be offensive then they are just as guilty of the transgression is the one doing it. "Do not offend" is a phrase I've heard many times in Salt Lake City from members of the predominant religion there. Don't ask questions, keep your mouth shut and we'll all get along just fine. And above all do not offend. Yet, that's not how we are to respond to ongoing sin. And that includes shacking up or in the PC term of today ... co-habitation.

 

[mia]

However, that does not mean that we are to encourage all behaviours. In regards to homosexuality - I believe we are to accept the individual who struggles with homosexual feelings, but we are not to encourage homosexual behavior.

I do not encourage homosexuality. As I stated several times, I don't believe it is natural.
Loving acceptance is not the same as encouragement.

 

[Rick W]

I do not encourage homosexuality. As I stated several times, I don't believe it is natural.
Loving acceptance and encouragement are two different things.

Christ never taught loving acceptance of those perpetuating sin. Or those allowing it to go on for that matter.
Why do you ignore this?

 

[mia]

In any case rebuke is part of a congregation's responsibility. (Again, so is forgiveness) If one wants to keep quiet or not be offensive then they are just as guilty of the transgression is the one doing it. "Do not offend" is a phrase I've heard many times in Salt Lake City from members of the predominant religion there. Don't ask questions, keep your mouth shut and we'll all get along just fine. And above all do not offend. Yet, that's not how we are to respond to ongoing sin. And that includes shacking up or in the PC term of today ... co-habitation.

I never even said "keep your mouth shut". I stated earlier, we can talk gently with one another, encourage each other, and live by example, but we cannot force one to change.

 

[mia]

Christ never taught loving acceptance of those perpetuating sin. Or those allowing it to go on for that matter.
Why do you ignore this?

I don't. But when did Christ call homosexuality a sin?

 

[Rick W]

Ah, there it is.
You don't want to believe the practice is a sin.Therefore it's ok.

gotta run. work evenings

 

[Quath]

I don't. But when did Christ call homosexuality a sin?

If you believe that Jeus is also God and the God made the Old testament laws, then

"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." - Leviticus 20:13

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." - Leviticus 18:22

Implies that God/Jesus sees homosexuality as a sin.

You can make this claim if Jesus is not God or if God only thought homosexuality was an abomination for a select group of people. If it were for a select group of people, then do all laws (Thou shall not murder, etc) only appply to that group?

 

[mia]

If you believe that Jeus is also God and the God made the Old testament laws, then

"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." - Leviticus 20:13

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." - Leviticus 18:22

Implies that God/Jesus sees homosexuality as a sin.

You can make this claim if Jesus is not God or if God only thought homosexuality was an abomination for a select group of people. If it were for a select group of people, then do all laws (Thou shall not murder, etc) only appply to that group?

You are not quoting Jesus. The Bible, esp. the Old Testament, says a lot of things that we don't believe. (e.g.)Who thinks that a woman who commits adultery should be stoned to death?
When Jesus came, he changed the law. Jesus stated the law simply: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[mia]

Jesus taught us to focus on ourselves. His way was not to try to force others to change and to live "right". We must look inward, repent of our own sins, purify our own hearts, and devote ours lives to God. Too many people are so concerned with others' "sins", they couldn't possible be spending much time examining their own hearts. Remember, we are all sinners in one way or another.
... Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. (Matthew 7:5)

I'm through with this thread.

 

[sisterchristian]

This certainly throws a wrench in the idea that homosexuality is genetic. We'll need to remember to pray for Glatze, he will be a target.

:smt038 :angel: :P

 

[Vic C.]

handy wrote:
This certainly throws a wrench in the idea that homosexuality is genetic. We'll need to remember to pray for Glatze, he will be a target.

:smt038 :angel: :P

I remember lisenting to Focus on the Family a few years ago. They were discussing the "gay gene" topic. It turned out out that one of the researchers who claimed to discover the gay gene, was homosexual himself, which discredited the "findings". Unfortunatley, the word was out for a while and the damage was done; many people had bought into it, hook, line and sinker.

It could be environmental, it could be cirmumstances, peer pressure, tv, movies and radio culture, but I have doubts that it's genetic. :-?

 

[Quath]

You are not quoting Jesus. The Bible, esp. the Old Testament, says a lot of things that we don't believe. (e.g.)Who thinks that a woman who commits adultery should be stoned to death?
When Jesus came, he changed the law. Jesus stated the law simply: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself.

I am with you so far. So do not believe in the Trinity or do you think that the Old Testament is not completely accurate?

 

[Vic C.]

Actually people, Jesus didn't change the law; He pointed out where they distorted the law.

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

In reality, He fulfilled the law.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

 

[Guest]

I don't. But when did Christ call homosexuality a sin?

So - are you saying that if Christ did not specifically state something as sin, then it isn't sin?

Christ did not specifically state that cursing is a sin - so does that mean I can go around cussing?

The question is (and I believe Vic has already provided the answer) did Jesus come to abolish the law or to fufill the law?

Christ came so that we might not face the penalty of the Law - however, that does not mean that the Law is done away with!

 

[Rick W]

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

By the Law we know what sin is.

Jesus taught us to focus on ourselves.

Jesus stated the law simply: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself.

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

"focus on ourselves"

:smt017

Christ never focused on Himself but served others. His focus was always on others. We are to become more like Him and to do that we are to become less of ourselves.
Yes we must look inward and deny ourselves and repent of sin. We still reside in a body of death but our spirit lives unto eternal life. You are a new creation and the old is put away, dead, buried with Christ. And as He rose in resurrection so shall we for He conquered death.


Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Romans 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Romans 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Romans 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

His way was not to try to force others to change and to live "right".

Again:

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds.





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We pride ourselves in the medical world on rehabilitation. We create learning centers, educate counselors and make programs available for those people who need to change their behavior. Ask if people can change the answer would be a resounding "Yes!"... for anything but homosexuality.

Our society is in the process of change itself. Where once it was adamantly taught the value of both mother and father those who made vast efforts in research and study were applauded for their efforts and insights uncovered. But today that's all been tossed on the trash heap for the sake of tolerance. The very words "mother" and "father" border on obsolescence to make room for the new trend toward "Party #1" and "Party #2". And "Party #3" or "Party #4" are on the horizon.

Many have changed their desire of sexual preference but their voices are stifled as being offensive or intolerant. For the sake of sexual preference the public square is becoming a "No Speech" zone to those who choose to voice opposition. We are in process of losing freedom for the sake of "Don't offend" and "live and let live".

This certainly throws a wrench in the idea that homosexuality is genetic. We'll need to remember to pray for Glatze, he will be a target.

Yes, especially if he chooses to publicize his experiences... If he hasn't been threatened already.

 

[Quath]

In reality, He fulfilled the law.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

What about the next line:

Matthew 5:18 - For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Since heaven and Earth have not passed, then it seems the laws are still in effect. Would you agree?

 

[Rick W]

Since heaven and Earth have not passed, then it seems the laws are still in effect. Would you agree?

No.
The Law was the basis of the Old Covenant, we are under the New. Yet, as Paul said the Law tells us what sin is.

Paul went into great length in Romans about what you ask.

 

[Vic C.]

Quath, don't get too hung up on the word fulfill; we don't see it as an abolishment, we see it as a confirment. Read it that way;

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (confirm)

Jesus loves God and loves His neighbor as He loves Himself. That was the Law. He fulfilled it so that in Him, we may fulfill it also.

 

[Quath]

No.
The Law was the basis of the Old Covenant, we are under the New. Yet, as Paul said the Law tells us what sin is.

Paul went into great length in Romans about what you ask.

So I am trying to get this straight.

1. Heaven and Earth have not passed away.
2. Therefore, not one jot or title of the old law has changed.
3. The laws states what the penality is for a sin (like stoning if you work on Saturday).

So can you explain where I am missing something? Are you saying that the penality is not part of the Old Law?

 

[jgredline]

Now it came to pass, when Jesus had finished these sayings, that He departed from Galilee and came to the region of Judea beyond the Jordan. 2 And great multitudes followed Him, and He healed them there.
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?â€Â
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’ ? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.â€Â
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?â€Â
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.â€Â
10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.â€Â
11 But He said to them, “All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: 12 For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.â€Â
13 Then little children were brought to Him that He might put His hands on them and pray, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.†15 And He laid His hands on them and departed from there.


Clearly Jesus was speaking as is stated in scripture that marriage is between a man and a women...

Jesus does not say a man shall divorce a man....or a women shall divorce a woman...

Folks....Trying screwing two nuts together or two bolts together...It does not work...Try a nut and bolt and you get a union...