Bible Study Genesis reading...

[Guest]

Dopple - as I posted in another thread, when the Hebrew word 'yom' is used in conjunction with a number - (ie: first day (yom)) - yom always means a literal 24 hour period.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Can one not manipulate numbers?

Back to Isaiah 19:19-20. The Hebrew text adds up to 5449. I know; I pulled out my Strong's and tried it myself and got the same sum. That's the height of the pyramid located in the same geographical area that the text speaks about. Period. There is nothing to manipulate.

Now it may be said that this is "coincidence". If we had one such event, I would say possibly. However, the bible is replete with gematrias and after a time it obviously fails to be a coincidence.

I don't know what it takes for folks to realize this and stop denying it even if it hits them on the side of the head like a swinging 20-pound sandbag.

 

[Guest]

Back to Isaiah 19:19-20. The Hebrew text adds up to 5449. I know; I pulled out my Strong's and tried it myself and got the same sum. That's the height of the pyramid located in the same geographical area that the text speaks about. Period. There is nothing to manipulate.

Now it may be said that this is "coincidence". If we had one such event, I would say possibly. However, the bible is replete with gematrias and after a time it obviously fails to be a coincidence.

I don't know what it takes for folks to realize this and stop denying it even if it hits them on the side of the head like a swinging 20-pound sandbag.

But why only those two verses from Isaiah 19? Why not Isaiah 19:18-20 or Isaiah 19:19-21?

This is where the manipulation comes in.

Also, the question would need to be asked, did those who built the pyramid know the number found in Isaiah 19:19-20 and then build the pyramid to equal?

Scripture does not contain 'hidden messages'.

 

[tim-from-pa]

But why only those two verses from Isaiah 19? Why not Isaiah 19:18-20 or Isaiah 19:19-21? This is where the manipulation comes in.

Those two verses are the ones that specifically speak of the structure and the others before and afterward expand on the subject dealing with Egypt.

Also, the question would need to be asked, did those who built the pyramid know the number found in Isaiah 19:19-20 and then build the pyramid to equal?

That's the point. It was inspired by God to be blueprinted as such. You are thinking of man's works as if its independent of God's plan and control. One has to get their eyes off themselves and believe on the Lord and then they see this is possible. Besides, Isaiah was not written yet.

Scripture does not contain 'hidden messages'.

If you think gemetrias are assumption or manipulation, then you just pronounced yourself two times as close-minded on the subject. I laugh heartily whenever someone says, "There is no proof, therefore it does not exist." That is totally illogical. The person just made a concrete conclusion, but in the negative. A logical conclusion would be that the subject has little or no proof, therefore it remains inconclusive (neutral conclusion). But that was my point mentioned earlier. There are many other gematrias that when they work out so perfectly, it ceases to be coincidence because the odds of happening by chance is nil. Therefore, the evidence is there for those with open eyes (and minds) to see it.

 

[ÃÂoppleganger]

when the Hebrew word 'yom' is used in conjunction with a number - (ie: first day (yom)) - yom always means a literal 24 hour period.

I'm just saying, the fact that the Bible calls them Days, and then later on God Creates the Sun and Moon, and uses them to be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: is a little suspect, I think this verse should alert people to this fact. The Fact that the Day of the Lord may not be a 24 hr period, or that Joshua was allowed more than 24 hrs for one of his days proves the inconsistancies that aren't being addressed.

Scripture does not contain 'hidden messages'.

Your totally wrong here. For example, critics of the Bible have always claimed that the Hebrew's used 3 as a substitute for PI, without doing the math and finding the dimensions of the "molten sea" altar of Solomon's Temple, one could believe this. The fact that PI is imbedded in the Bible a half dozen times or more, tells me your wrong about this. Without doing the math, and taking steps, along a line of clues you would never find some of them. In Fact the Bible has 3 different levels of understanding I believe. But this is off the subject so I'll stop here.

 

[Lewis]

Handy' you seem like a intelligent person.

 

[Heidi]

I just read the first three chapters in genesis, and found some things that are problematic, confusing, contradictory, and just plain bizarre among other things. Thought I would ask what others think of some of these things. I will stick close to chronological order:

Genesis 1:4-god divided the light from the darkness

Genesis 1:5-god calls the light day and the darkness night

Problematic: Genesis 1:16-god makes the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night. The only way I see a problem can be avoided here is that this does not refer to the sun and moon. If it does, then light existed for the earth without the sun before this. Also, the moon does not emit light of itself, but if this verse is a reference to the moon, it is called a light.

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Genesis 1:11-12-god creates plants.

Problematic: god creates the sun later.

Interesting: These verses indicate that the earth brought forth plants, which would be god using abiogenesis to create life.

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Genesis 1:20-21-god says for the waters to bring forth living creatures and fowls.

Interesting: This verse also indicates god using abiogenesis

Bizarre: Why did fowls emerge from the water? (Edit: It seems this is also worded sometimes as just mentioning the fowls but not saying they emerged from the water, in which case, it wouldn't be bizarre)

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Genesis 1:24-god says for the earth to bring forth life. This is another instance of abiogenesis.

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Genesis 2:17-god says that Adam will surely die the day he eats of the eats of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. However, later in the story, he eats the fruit of that tree and yet lives.

Problematic: If this is literal, god did not know what he was talking about, or lying. If god meant that Adam would die spiritually if he ate of that tree, then that was not literal, as god never mentions a spiritual death. And thus this would then seem to indicate that this is not literal but metaphorical.

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Genesis 3:8-says that Adam and Eve heard the voice of god walking in the garden and so they hid. I thought this was odd. If god is a spirit, why is he walking? And also, why is he talking to himself? (Edit: It seems this is also sometimes worded as they heard the sound of god walking in the garden, in which case it isn't strange)


Genesis 3:14-god curses the serpent to eat dust the rest of its days. Snakes do not eat dust.

That's because God is talking about the light that comes from God, not the sun, as all born again Christians know. So the passages about seeing the "light" do not refer to the sun, but God's light.

All through the bible, the phrase "hearing" God's voice is used. that doesn't mean it's an audible sound from outside. It means the recipient distinguished between his own human mind and the voice of God. God can't write either. But the words in the bible are His words. that's because he promtped those who listened to His Spirit inside of them telling them what to say.

The earth brings forth life from what God already created. This is done through humans, animal, and plant reproduction.

The time span between plants and the sun is one day. So I don't think that represents a huge problem for plants.

No, all that passage means is that man is now mortal, not immortal.

Snakes absolutely swallow dust when they crawl along the ground.

 

[ÃÂoppleganger]

Heidi don't take this the wrong way.

I read your testimony, it was very interesting.

I certainly understand your feelings much clearer.

I'm not saying this to hurt you, but to enlighten you.

I believe, that in reaction to your intellectual past you have crossed over from being a liberal left winger to a fundamentalist right winger. For lack of a better term.

I don't believe your past intellectual prowess or pursuits show in the ignorance of some of your posts.

Since, I believe this might be the case, your past intellectualness was merely a disguise for free-will in an open society by non-believers.

This God hating and mocking which was a part of your past to some extent, is now just reversed, and aimed at the very thing you once were.

Leaving that all aside your conversion seems genuine to me.

However, I think it is this guilt that makes you deal in overkill and go to extremes.

I know you have a deep faith, but I think sometimes your emotions get in the way, sometimes.

Lastly, I'll be AWOL from Christianforums for a while, since I'll be helping http://www.wikigodsword.org get started. For lack of a better term my Intellectualism and computer skills will be helping spread God's Word!

My Last Artiicle, per say, (though I'll still check in from time to time), will be on this subject I hope you read it.

 

[handy]

Hey Doppleganger, sorry to hear you're going to be AWOL as I just had another, (probably inane seeming) question to ask you. I'll post it anyway, as there are others here who seem knowledgable on this subject and in the hopes that you'll check in and perhaps respond:

I was trying to get ahold of some old reference books I had, that are probably at my mom's from way back when. Anyway, there was a commentary in one of them regarding Genesis 1 in which it stated that Genesis 1 was either a poem or a song. (I truly cannot remember whether the article stated poem or song.) Anyway, if Genesis 1 is poetic, wouldn't that account for the numerical sequences, as poetry is numerical in nature anyway? And, if it is poetic, it seems as though the mulititude of 7's would be more of a conscience (abeit inspired) manipulation rather than a supernatural mystery. Much like how words are manipulated into rhyme and meter, yet still hold a powerful impact in great English poetry.

BTW, Lewis, thanks for your kind remark. You've made me feel very welcome here.

 

[ÃÂoppleganger]

Well, I'm not totally outta the loop yet. Yes. I've heard this before. I dont bring it up much, I believe one of my old post has it in Hebrew. Even words that we can't understand have rythm to it. (If I remember correctly, the 2 verse rhymes with the 1st and ends with a word similar in thought to "destruction") Some people belive Genesis 1:3 and beyond is an expanded, more detailed version of Genesis 1:1. This meter rhyme which is even present in classical literature, is (dont quote me on this) consists of 7 metrical paragraph's of 4 lines, 3 paragraph's of which contrast with 4 main paragraph's (something to that effect). It's a very old system of ode compilation.

However, this doesn't surprise me. To understand the significance of this you should probably also read Bullingers work on Supernatural Design and Spiritual Significance of Biblical numbers at http://philologos.org/__eb-nis/ or http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/number01.htm. To keep in the same thought, one of the two gematria sites, shows that this prose or numeric symbolism runs from Genesis 1:1 to the end of the creation account well into the 2nd chapter, then stops. The Bible sure is neat Huh! Anyways, Good Luck and God Bless, its been fun talking to you. You can post again I just won't be starting any new threads or posting reply's that much anymore.

 

[n2thelight]

Here is a study on the first chapter of Gen,you can go to the link at the end and read the rest.

Genesis is the first book of the Bible, and was written by Moses. In Hebrew it is called "the Book of the Beginnings", however in the Greek Genesis is called "the Book of the Generations, and Creation."

The book of Genesis and the book of Revelation have much more in common than most people think. The book of Genesis is a record of the beginning of this earth age, while the book of Revelation is a record of prophecy as to the end, or destruction of this flesh earth age.

Genesis records Satan's first rebellion, and Revelation records Satan's last rebellion. Then in Genesis we find where sin enters into the world in this earth age, and Revelation reveals it's final doom at the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Book of Genesis is a key to understanding the rest of the Scriptures. When Jesus talks about the planting of the seed, and the offspring of that seed [children]; we will see in Genesis the meaning of this and find out just what Jesus was teaching us through His parables. In fact we will see in Matthew 13:35 where Jesus is teaching in parables the secrets of the prophets of the Old Testament. They were secrets hidden and not understood by mankind from the foundation of the world [Kosmos; in the Greek}.

The name "Genesis" is not even a Hebrew word, but a Greek rendition out of the Septuagint, which is part of the Torah. The original Hebrew name of this book was "The Beginnings".

Those that stand and use this Word of God as the basis for placing the age of the earth at 6000 years, just don't understand the original Hebrew text. It is easy to document that this earth is many millions of years old. However, the traces of Adamic man only can be traced to about that 6000 year period of time. Now lets go the the Scriptures and document some of these statements.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

There are two bodies mentioned in this verse; the heaven and the earth. It simply stated a fact and left the time factor out. The verse not only did not say when, but left it totally to our imagination, as to the eternal span of time, and how the creation took place.

In Proverbs 8:22 we read of wisdom speaking through Solomon. Wisdom is God for all wisdom is of God. "The Lord possessed me in the beginning of His ways, before the works of old." What works of old could this be? It is the old earth age, spoken of in Revelation 12:1-6.

Proverbs 8:23; "I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was." This is stating that wisdom was with God, and He possessed me.

Proverbs 8:24; "When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water." Before there was any need of an abyss, or pit, and the water to fill them, God's wisdom was there.

Proverbs 8:25; "Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:"

Before the earth even took on it's present form, with the high mountains and rolling hills, God's wisdom was there. Friend, God's wisdom played His part in the creation of this earth, and all wisdom comes from God.

Proverbs 8:26; "While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the high part [beginning] of the dust of the world."

God was there in wisdom before that first little atom, or speck of dust of the earth was formed. Before the laws of God that control the energy forces came into being, God's wisdom was there.

Proverbs 8:27; "When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass [circle] upon the face of the depth:"

Proverbs 8:28; "And when established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:"

Proverbs 8:29; "When He gave to the sea His decree, that the waters should not pass His commandment: when He appointed the fountains of the earth:"

In other words, there was land, and oceans, and fields and lakes, and God set His commandment that they should be separated through the "compass" which He set. Today we call it "gravity". This is the force which separates all water from dry land. When the waves hit the rocks of the shoreline, they resend back into the sea by the gravitational forces of the earth.

God allowed Job to be tested by both Satan and his fellow man, in the first thirty seven chapters of the Book of Job. However, after 37 chapters of man's nonsense, ramblings, and bad advice by those around Job, God spoke to Job.

Job 38:1, 2; "Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?"

Job had been tested to the point of losing His entire family, all his property, and had been inflicted by sores and sickness, yet, he did not curse God. He was in a poor frame of mind when God again came to Job.

Job 38:3; Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou Me."

God told Job to straighten up and be a man, and listen to what He is about to tell Job. Then God spells out to Job how He laid out the foundations of the earth and the heaven, and all matters concerning them.

Then for the rest of Job 38 and continuing in Job 39 we can see the same wisdom we read about in Proverbs 8. God told Job how He put the universe all together. Our God is infinite in wisdom and power, Yet His love for His children is so great that He allowed Himself to be killed as a man, on the cross at Calvary. In this love that He demonstrated for His children, He made it possible that we could approach Him as His child for our every need.

This humbled Job before God, as it should to each of us, and He fell apart [Job 40]. God once again told Job to stand "like a man, and give answer to Him".

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

Who is that Spirit of God? He is the Holy Spirit, and it is God's Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters.

In the Hebrew translation of the word, "was", as used in this verse "...the earth was without form,..."; in the original text it reads "became without form...". This same mistranslation of the word "became", and turning it into the word "was" is also present in Genesis 2:7. It should read there; "..and man became a living soul."

The correct Hebrew translation from the Massoretic Hebrew text for the words, "without form" is "tohu-va bohu" in the Hebrew Strong's dictionary. So we see that the earth was not "created without form", but it "became [tohu] without form and void". Lets go to Strong's Hebrew dictionary, reference number 1961 to verify the word "was", that we read in this verse. "Yahah, haw-yaw; a prime root, to exit; to become, or come to pass." [#1961]

Now lets continue in the Strong's Hebrew dictionary to get the true meaning for the word "void". # 2258, on page 36 tells us that we have to go to # 2254 for the prime on the meaning of this word "void". # 2254; "Chabal, khaw-bal; to wind tightly as a rope, to bind, to pervert, destroy, to corrupt, spoil, travail," This corresponds with its other use in # 2255, which reads; "to ruin".

"Tohu" of the earth, then means that total destruction had come to pass upon the earth. The second "was" in the verse is in italics type because there is no verb "to be" in the Hebrew language. One of the problems in translating the Hebrew into English is that the verb, "to be" is not distinguished from the verb, "to become".

At the end of Genesis 1:1 the first earth age ceased to exist in its previous form. God created the earth to be inhabited, and then He destroyed it. There was an entire earth age that existed between verses one and two of Genesis. This first earth age is spoken of in II Peter, Jeremiah, Proverbs, and Jude. We will look into these Scripture passages and try to understand the deeper meaning of our Father's Word.

If you don't understand that there was a first earth age, you will not understand why God would say in Malachi 1:3; "And I hated Esau...". God hated Esau even while he was in his mother's womb. It was in the first earth age that God hated Esau, because of what Esau did in that first earth age. It was what Esau's soul did in that age that so angered God; and that anger passed on to the embryo of Esau, when his soul entered into this earth age. See also Romans 9:13.

This verse, then, does verify the fact that our earth is older than 6,000 years old. To be more exact, it's probably many millions of years old. However, no matter how old this earth is, it is the only place we can live on in the flesh and survive. We do not worship God's creation; we are to worship the creator, our Heavenly Father. God is in control of all of His creation, and He destroyed all forms of life that lived on the earth from the first earth age.

In Isaiah 45:18; "For thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the Lord; and there is none else."

This is God speaking as Isaiah is writing it down, and He is telling us that when He created the earth, it was not in vain. "Vain" is the same Hebrew word that we saw in Genesis 1:2, which was given as "void". God created this earth to be lived on, and to be inhabited. Genesis 1:1 told us that God created the earth to be inhabited. The "Tohu", the "destruction", was not part of the creation plan of verse one, but came after the fall of Satan when one third of all the souls followed Satan in the first earth age, in verse two.

We find more documentation concerning the first earth age in II Peter 3. In fact we can read of all three earth ages, as Peter becomes a witness to the fact.

II Peter 3:5; "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"

The earth came about by "the word of God", God's speech. Some ministers preach that this was Noah's flood, well let's see.

II Peter 3:6; "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

Perished means total destruction. "The world [age] that then was" ended in total ruin through another flood that was prior to Noah's day. There were no survivors of that flood; no animals, no man, no insects, nor vegetation survived in any form. Everything perished! We know in Noah's flood that two of all life forms were saved.

When you drive out on the highway today, and look at the road cutaways, you can see the layers that the ages and time have formed over the eons of years. You say this earth is 6000 years? Even a child should know better than that.

II Peter 3:7; "But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are dept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is the second heaven and earth age which we are living in now. This earth age will not be destroyed until God's time of judgment on the ungodly men of this earth age comes to a close. that time of perdition [destruction] is after the millennium, and after the judgment. Then will come the consuming fire. Hebrews 12:19 tells us that our God is that consuming fire.

II Peter 3:8; "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

One week is 7000 years, and we are coming to the Sabbath of that week very shortly, which the common name for the next thousand years is "the Millennium age". The Millennium age is the thousand years after Jesus Christ returns to earth at the seventh trumpet to establish his kingdom here on earth. All souls at that time will not be in the flesh bodies, but in another dimension. They will exist in their incorruptible bodies, spoken of in I Corinthians 15:50-54.

II Peter 3:9; "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

That means that you can count on our Heavenly Father concerning His promises. God has much patience concerning His children. It isn't God's will that any soul should perish. God did not even intend for Satan to perish, as stated in Ezekiel 28, but that doesn't mean God will not bring about the perishing of souls; for it is up to the soul to choose. That is what our free will is all about.

II Peter 3:10; "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

"A thief in the night" is an figure of speech meaning that Christ will come at an unexpected time. This sounds like a scary time, but what does it say in in the original text, being translated to English? The "elements" are all the "rudiments"; that is the evil spirits, all evil men are part of those rudiments, as well as all forms of idolatry. They will all burn at their appointed time. These elements are not the elements that go to make up the physical properties of this earth. This is addressed only to those things that offend our Heavenly Father.

So we have witnessed in II Peter 3 that there are three earth ages, and three heaven ages that correspond with the earth age periods of time. We see also in Jeremiah 4 that there is another witness to the fact of these three earth ages.

Jeremiah 4:22; "For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge."

How many people really know God's Word? There are very few that can quote you anything from the Bible, except those parts that can give them personal gain. The translators were kind to use the word "sottish", for the word means just plain "stupid", or "silly". The nature of mankind today is to "make a buck any way that you can". Their minds are evil constantly, as they were in the days of Noah. However, in the ways of goodness, and doing right, there is a void.

Jeremiah 4:23; "I beheld the earth, and, lo it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light."

Here we get back to the same word that we saw earlier in Genesis 1:2; The Hebrew word "Tohu" for "void". In other words, God is saying, "I destroyed the first heaven and earth age." There simply was no life form existing on this earth at the close of the first earth age in any form.

Jeremiah 4:24; "I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly."

This is why the magnetic north is 90 miles off true north? God shook the earth and everything moved from its foundations at the time the destruction "tohu" took place.

Jeremiah 4:25; "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled."

Did you get that? No man, no animals, and not even the birds were left alive. The earth was covered with water, and life could not exist. There was no boat floating around on the surface, for the span of time could have been for thousands of years, or a much greater time.

Jeremiah 4:26; "I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger."

In this flood there wasn't a tree or a blade of grass left with life in it. However, what about these "cities" that once existed? Yes there were cities at that time, and God's anger and fury against Satan, and the third of God's children that followed Satan, caused God to destroy that entire earth age, and all that was part of it.

That is what God meant in Hebrews 11:7 when He said, "I shook her once and know I'll shake her again." The only thing that will be left standing then, is that which is unshakeable, and it will only be those who have repented, and have Jesus Christ in their heart. They are those souls that were sealed in their minds, and did not bow to the Antichrist, his system, or take his name, nor his number.

Jeremiah 4:27; "For thus hath the Lord said, "The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end."

God allowed the waters of the first earth age to recede, and from it came a condition whereby we can live in this second earth age. Each soul, or God's child, will pass through this flesh earth age once, and we have the choice to chose either light or darkness; Jesus Christ or Satan. When God created each soul and gave it free will, He cannot force that soul to love Him. You cannot buy love, or it will be a false love. God is looking for your tender love; from within your free soul. It is your choice.

So we have documented from the Bible that there was an earth age prior to this earth age we now live in. God created that first earth age in good standing to be inhabited, as it was written in Isaiah 45:18; then after this it became "without form and void" [in the Hebrew, "Tohu va bohu"].

Why? Because Satan brought sin into the world of that first earth age. and that sin was so great that one third of all God's children followed Satan, and that sin brought God's anger upon the whole world. It was then that Satan was sentenced to the death of his soul. This is why Satan is called the "son of perdition" in II Thessalonians 2:3, and John 17:12. Satan refused to repent, as God allowed him the time to get right with Him.

Verse three starts after the first earth age, after the overthrow by Satan [The Chabal], and after the total destruction of the first earth age and all life forms on it

Genesis 1:3 "And God said, "let there be light:" and there was light."

Almost every verse involving this creation story of Genesis one starts with the words; "And God said.". However in the Hebrew text it says; "And the Magnificent Lord God Almighty". The original text gives God the full Spirit movement, and the most respect possible for our Almighty Father God.

This verse is still in the first day when the light came into being.

Genesis 1:4 "And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness."

Genesis 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

It will be on into another day that the sun, and moon, and stars were created. What does it mean then when God said, "Let there be light"?

When the Holy Spirit of God, the "Ruach" in the Hebrew, moved upon the face of the earth; there is light, for He [the Holy Spirit] is light. Without the Holy Spirit there is total darkness, so the Holy Spirit of God, on the first day started His work.

Within the first chapter of Genesis God reveals His entire plan of God. Verses three through five are NOT dealing with the sun and moon, for they come later. But it is dealing with the presence of the Holy Spirit of God that is to be present throughout this earth age. That "Ruach" or Spirit is the first, and most important part of the creation, for without The Holy Spirit there is only darkness.

This is also the start of God's plan, which includes you and I, and all of God's children. The choice is choosing between the "Light", which is the Spirit of God", and darkness. Ezekiel 28:12-19 declares Satan, "the King of Tyrus", to be that darkness in the world. Then if your choice be darkness, verse 18 declares your destination after judgment: "I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth..."

All prophecies in the entire Bible that refer to God's elect, or the children of God; those that happen to be in God's will, are called "children of light". This also applies to prophecies that are given in days, or solar years. [see Daniel 12:11]

In turn, all prophecies dealing with Satan, his wickedness, and his children are given in months, or moons. Satan's children, then are called the "children of darkness", or "of the night". [see Revelation 13:4, 5] Satan is the darkness that is the negative part of God's plan. Satan was here from the beginning of this earth age, and God allowed it.

Christ was also here, for he is the "Tree of Life". We will read of this later in the second and third chapters of Genesis. When God refers to trees in symbolism, they are persons.

Genesis 1:6 "And God said, "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."

The "firmament" is an "expansion, or space".

Genesis 1:7 "And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so."

Genesis 1:8 "And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."

Are we talking about dimensions here? What does the word "heaven" mean here? In the Hebrew test it is the "high and lofty", or "the upper place". So on the second day the Spirit of God moved the waters, and divided the waters. He placed a space, or firmament in between these two bodies of water, and kept one of the bodies of water on the earth, with the other body of water above the space, or in the heavens. The waters below existed as the oceans today exist.

In the book," Waters Above", the author demonstrates how it is possible to have oceans of water in suspension above the earth, if the earth were in a perfect orbital spin. Though this condition does not exist today, it did at one time; as was proven by scientist in "the Wisconsin Theory". This study proved the polarity of the earth changed, by their observation of the crystallization of iron particles in ancient lava flow.

To show how objects can be set stationary in the heavens, in modern day technology that most nations of the earth use today, we have satellites set in space orbit for communication. This process is so common, even third world countries have their own satellites. These physical masses use the gravity pull of the earth, balanced with an equal centripetal force that would throw the satellite out into space; to suspend these objects into a stationary place [orbit] with respect to the earth.

The book, "Waters Above" gave the theory of how it was done, and when the Voyager II space craft passed by the planet "Uranus"; we saw it in reality. How the separation of two bodies of water by God [not clouds], placed one body of water on the earth, and the other floating, suspended above the earth, with a space [firmament] in-between.

Genesis 1:9 "And God said, "Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear:" and it was so."

In Noah's flood it took months for the waters to settle, however on this third day of creation God spoke it, and it happened. This is the first day that "dry land" appeared on earth in this earth age. In the eternal earth age there will be no seas or oceans as in this earth age.

Genesis 1:10 "And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called He Seas: and God saw that it was good."

There was nothing chaotic here, but everything was done in order. With the protection from the sun's rays by the "water above", and the dew to water the earth below; things were pretty good.

Genesis 1:11 "And God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth:" and it was so."

Genesis 1:12 "And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

Genesis 1:13 "And the evening and the morning were the third day."

The heavens, and the water separation came about on the second day, and now it wasn't until the third day that "dry land appeared". There is simply no room for evolution in the creation of the heavens and earth, as we see and witness it in this earth age. Everything that exists, whether creating, making, acting, moving, and speaking are ascribed to the Living God. There is absolutely no area that can be rendered to chance, without a flat denial of Divine Revelation.

Man assumes he started from nothing, and progressed to where he is today through evolution, which is a process of changes that take place through chance. This principle takes place only in human affairs: developing from a hut to a modern building; from a canoe to an ocean liner; from the spade or stick developing into the tractor, and so on.

However, birds still build their nests today as they did 6000 years ago. The moment we pass the boundary line, and enter the "Divine sphere", no trace or vestige of evolution is seen. There is growth and development within each "kind", but no passing, change, or evolution out of one kind, and entering into another kind. The evolutionist demonstrates his evolution as a chain of processes and changes, all interacting within each other. However, in actuality, all he has is a bag of individual chain lengths which cannot be demonstrated today as ever taken place, even once. There simply is no connecting of one "kind" of creature specimen to another "kind" of creature.

In fact scientists have conducted many DNA tests to prove insects a common parentage between a number of kinds of insects. However, they proved that there was no way that these different kinds of insects could have ever come from common parentage. It is interesting how the scientific world hushed this fact up, as they are now trying to prove the reliability of this new scientific tool, called DNA.. The "Learning Channel" ran a documentary on this particular set of DNA testing in eerily 1995, and the results of those tests, and pointed out the conflict between the tests, and the evolution theory.

Each part, or form of the "theory on evolution" is only invented to explain a partial area of the phenomena of created things. The Word of God, we will see, claims to cover all the ground through Divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God. Man uses the term "higher critic", to give authority to those using human assumptions and reasoning; instead of using sound documentation of physical evidence, and manuscripts of the Word of God.

The chaos that came after the first age is being rejuvenated into a new order of things [life]. The grass, herbs, trees, and other vegetation kind is brought back to carry on as it did in the first age; from it's own seed. Everything after it's kind.

Genesis 1:14 "And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" and it was so."

The moon and the sun are both given for signs, for planting and to control tides, seasons, and the weather. We dig for clams by the position of the moon, as well as the planting of potatoes. However, there is another separating taking place, and that is the separation of day from night, and light from darkness.

Here in the fourth day, and we now have a moon, sun, stars, and all the other heavenly bodies of the universe. It is in the fourth day that the earth has a constant orbit around the sun, which sets the season, and gives us a uniform standard, which we call time. Now we have a standard day, which is divided into years, months, days, hours, minutes and seconds.

The other part of the universe which most of the world follows closely today, are the signs of the zodiac. These signs of the zodiac are comprised of twelve major star groupings, called constellations. These star groupings form a belt which circles the sky on a plane which follows the earth's orbit around the sun. These twelve signs of the zodiac are part of a universal language of Astronomical science. It is well known that from the earliest man, his ancient astronomical charts will allow modern astronomers to pinpoint to the year, the time of charting.

David wrote about this in Psalm 19:1-4; "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth His handiwork. [verse 1] Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. [verse 2] There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. [verse 3] There line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. [verse 4]

Genesis 1:14 "And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth:" and it was so."

As we look up in a dark clear night, God's handiwork comes alive. The billions of twinkling stars cover the entire sky as a blanket.

Genesis 1:15 "And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth:" and it was so."

Genesis 1:16 "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: He made the stars also."

Genesis 1:17 "And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,"

Genesis 1:18 "And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good."

Genesis 1:19 "And the evening and the morning were the forth day."

Number "four" in biblical numerics stands for earth. Everything about the earth is divided into four; the four quarters, the four seasons, the four points of the compass, and on and on.

Genesis 1:20 "And God said, "Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."

Lets take a closer look at the word "Live", for in the Hebrew text that word reads "Nephesh", which is "soul" in the English. The word "naphesh", though it means soul, is not always used as we think of soul within mankind, for there are twelve classifications of the word "naphesh".

The classification form used in this sixteenth verse is the first and lowest form applied to life, and is directed only to the very lowest animal forms. Though "nephesh" is used 754 times in the Hebrew Old Testament, it is used in the lower case form [to lower animals] only twenty two times. It is applied to the "soul of man" 472 times.

So we see that on this fifth day of the creation, the first life formed were in the seas, and oceans; Then came the birds of the air. God gave each of these creatures, from the tiniest single cell life form, to the whale, their "naphesh" [Life]. In each kind of life formed, God gave the ability to do all the functions within the limits of that kind, and no more.

Genesis 1:21 "And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

Evolution just doesn't fit into the order of creation. When God created every living thing to reproduce "after their kind", it eliminates the mutations through chance over a long period of time, and that is required in acceptance of their own evolution theories.

Genesis 1:22 "And God blessed them saying, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth."

Genesis 1:23 "And the evening and the morning were the fifth day."

Make a mental note of the fact that sea and ocean life are created, and then the winged fowl. However, man has not been created yet. The creation cycle form starts with, "And God said". When the cycle is completed, and that part is completed, we then read; "God blessed it".

Genesis 1:24 And God said, "Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind:" and it was so."

Here again is the word creature, or nephesh, for soul; as we saw in verse twenty. It is referring to the classification of lower animal life. These creature life forms include all insect life, wild animal forms such as the cat family, dog family, elephants, as well as all other wild beasts, of which many are extinct today.

Notice also that all animal forms of life reproduced "after his kind". In this orderly fashion, all animals followed as God had ordered each.

Genesis 1:25 "And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

Kind after kind, and "each after his own kind"; each of these families of animals reproduced and spread throughout the earth, populating the entire earth. Each kind living in accordance to the climate, substance, and terrain God intended each of their animal forms to survive in.

Genesis 1:26 "And God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

God set out to make man exactly the way he is. Man was then created to look like the exact image of God, and his sons; the angels. If you ever wondered what an angel form looks like? Then look into a mirror, for we are created in their image.

Note that God created first the fish, then the fowl, and then the beasts. Following their creation and multiplying, God created the races of mankind. God then gave man the dominion over all the animal kingdom. He gave the animal cattle to hunt, and fish to catch for food, as well as taming them for domestic use. Man is the highest form of all life on this earth, though many movements today act as if they don't know it. When they place and value their soul little more then animal life.

Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them."

So it was on this sixth day that both man and woman of all races were formed, and each after their kind. Yet all forms of mankind red, yellow, black [brown], or white are all created in the image of God.

Genesis 1:28 "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, ad over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

The intent of God was to have each race multiply "after their kind". For God created all that is necessary for all mankind to exist. "Replenish" is translated properly, and the command is to replenish the earth. This earth had a population in the first earth age, and it was inhabited by God's children. Satan caused one third of all God's children to fall, and follow him, and the result of that fall angered God. That is when "the earth became [tohu-va bohu] a waste and desolation", as recorded in verse two.

God is now commanding the races to multiply and "repopulate" the earth "after their kind". It seems though today that the whole world is a bit color blind, or maybe they think God is out of touch with today's world. It is interesting though, following Noah's flood in Genesis 9:1; "And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, "be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth."

These are the only two places in the Bible where the word "replenish" is used, and both deal with the time following a destruction of the earth and mankind by a flood. To replenish anything, means that it had to exist prior, and in the same form. What is interesting though, is that evolutionist can find animal forms dating back thousands of years prior to any skeletal remains of mankind. In fact the earliest specimens of man was carbonated to within the limits of God's creation. It was the link that evolutionists claimed to be the link between monkey and man. However, by other testing, it turned out to be a chimp. Strange huh? Remember, "kind after kind'.

God made man, and all things for His pleasure. Have you given Him any pleasure lately. Have you stopped to thank Him for your blessings, or just to tell Him that you love Him. You know that you are made in His image, and He has feelings just as you or I do. When you fall short, just ask His forgiveness and He will forgive you, for He loves all of His children.

Genesis 1:29 "And God said, "Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."

God is giving instruction here to man. He told this group of people to go and eat of the fruits of the trees, and plant life. This vegetation are there for man's consumption.

Genesis 1:30 "And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat:" and it was so."

Notice that the plant life that was given for "meat", was given to both man and beast. The idea and practice of eating flesh never was ordained by God as food until after Noah's flood. This is recorded in Genesis 9:2, 3.

Genesis 9:2, 3 "And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered." [verse 2] Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things." [verse 3]

"Life" in this verse is translated "Naphesh" in the Hebrew text. It is classified and used in this form as applying only to "lower form animals". However in this case it is used to show life within, and not the presence of an "eternal soul", as in man.

Genesis 1:31 "And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

At the close of the sixth day the earth and all life form's, plant and animal alike, were in existence. The condition of the earth was inhabitable, and all the stars and planets were set in their places in the heavens. We know that the condition of the earth was such that God intended for mankind to have a very lengthy life span. The age of mankind that is recorded in the Bible prior to the flood of Noah's time, was upwards of eight to nine hundred years, and greater. We also must agree that it was good, for God repeated; "and it was very good" after days creation.

Going back in time, through the recorded generations, there are not that many, in comparison to the the time evolutionist would have us believe. When we compare Joseph's father in law [Jesus father's] lineage in Luke 3:23-38; we notice a continuous line from the creation of Adam to Jesus. It is interesting that there are seventy seven [77] generations from Adam to Jesus Christ. Seven in biblical numerics represents "spiritual completeness". You might say the double sevens [77] would be a double witness to "spiritual completeness"; the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The word "Adam" in the Strong's Hebrew dictionary is given under # 120; "Adam, aw-dawm'; from 119, ruddy, a human being, person." So the prime root in the Hebrew dictionary, # 119; "Adam, aw-dam' to show blood in the face, flesh, turn rosy, be made ruddy [red]." This race of Adam then is a white race which will show ruddy [red], and turn red to show the blood.

On the sixth day, "male and female created He them". God created all the races, however, in the creation of "Adam" we will see in the next chapter that God stated purpose for Adam, and His intent for the Adamic race are that they are "to till the ground." That means that they are to be farmers.


http://www.theseason.org/genesis/genesis1.htm

 

[linkshepherd]

Not my favorite debate at all, as one side broadcasts the undeniability of the genesis creation narrative as fact, while the whole of scientific study finds a factual basis in any of it to be unsupportable. I take it as necessary to be open to the possibility that there is more here than meets the eye.

The creation narrative seems certain to predate "writing" and so to have been transmitted orally, in all likelihood for many centuries. Mainstream literary analysis of Genesis points out at least two and perhaps 3 narrative voices in the variations of the creation narrative found in the course of the first 3 chapters, which fits with a historical understanding of the differentiated thinking which developed among Southern Israelites (Judah and Benjamin), those fervent Jahwists, and the looser northern traditions which frequently encompassed and repeatedly cast out Baal and Ashera. The variance of the traditions among these semi literate and illiterate peoples.

The value of the narrative and its ability to transmit truth up till this very day, lies not in its literal factual infallibility, or in its lack thereof, but in its ability to help us understand God's will in our lives, to helping us encounter, believe and obey the Holy Spirit in the Spirit's instructions for our daily lives and in the reminder that, as John says, Through Him, all things were created, nothing that was created was created without Him.

 

[Guest]

Not my favorite debate at all, as one side broadcasts the undeniability of the genesis creation narrative as fact, while the whole of scientific study finds a factual basis in any of it to be unsupportable. I take it as necessary to be open to the possibility that there is more here than meets the eye.

The creation narrative seems certain to predate "writing" and so to have been transmitted orally, in all likelihood for many centuries. Mainstream literary analysis of Genesis points out at least two and perhaps 3 narrative voices in the variations of the creation narrative found in the course of the first 3 chapters, which fits with a historical understanding of the differentiated thinking which developed among Southern Israelites (Judah and Benjamin), those fervent Jahwists, and the looser northern traditions which frequently encompassed and repeatedly cast out Baal and Ashera. The variance of the traditions among these semi literate and illiterate peoples.

The value of the narrative and its ability to transmit truth up till this very day, lies not in its literal factual infallibility, or in its lack thereof, but in its ability to help us understand God's will in our lives, to helping us encounter, believe and obey the Holy Spirit in the Spirit's instructions for our daily lives and in the reminder that, as John says, Through Him, all things were created, nothing that was created was created without Him.

The question is who authored the Holy Scriptures?

1) bunch of ragamuffin men

2) the Holy Spirit

 

[Vic C.]

Here is a study on the first chapter of Gen, you can go to the link at the end and read the rest....

There's more!?!? :o

I thought it was too long to begin with, onelove. :

 

[Guest]

There's more!?!? :o

I thought it was too long to begin with, onelove. :

:

 

[linkshepherd]

Re:

Not my favorite debate at all,
...original snipped for brevity
was created without Him.

The question is who authored the Holy Scriptures?

1) bunch of ragamuffin men

2) the Holy Spirit

The bible itself gives no indication OTHER THAN answer 1, except in the case of the ten commandments, which, scripture relates, were carved onto stone tablets by the Almighty. The verses most frequently cited in this regard, 2 Timothy 3:16 (All scripture is inspired by God) and 2 Peter 1: 20-21 (no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. ) make no claims as to authorship.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re:

Not my favorite debate at all,
...original snipped for brevity
was created without Him.

The question is who authored the Holy Scriptures?

1) bunch of ragamuffin men

2) the Holy Spirit

The bible itself gives no indication OTHER THAN answer 1, except in the case of the ten commandments, which, scripture relates, were carved onto stone tablets by the Almighty. The verses most frequently cited in this regard, 2 Timothy 3:16 (All scripture is inspired by God) and 2 Peter 1: 20-21 (no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. ) make no claims as to authorship.

So - "inspired by God" and "from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit" does not make a claim to authorship?