[_ Old Earth _] GenesisTime

[Hitch]

All over Christian circles believers stand on their heads trying to accommodate modern science wrt the six days of creation. All kinds of arguments over and under with all appeals to reason ,tradition and common sense. Even invoking the particularly disgusting 'God time' nonsense.

God in His wisdom boiled it down long before we discovered dinosaur bones.

With complete disregard for any scheme you can think of or any allowances that can be made or forced into application you are stuck.

You're stuck with the New Testament that leaves no doubt that Christ and the Apostles take a literal position as regards the Flood .

Millions or even billions of years passing before dont do you any good. Either Noah and family are the direct ,and fairly recent, ancestors of all, and living fauna descended from those Noah placed in the ark, or not.

God has left no place to hide.

 

[jasoncran]

amen and to imply that the flood was a local then also implies the final judgment of man is local is as well.

the word day when it has a number in front of it has can only be a literal day. we shouldnt read more into the bible and add or subtract the meaning of the words or the authors intent.

 

[Free]

And yet, an old Earth is perfectly compatible with the six day of Genesis.

 

[Hitch]

And yet, an old Earth is perfectly compatible with the six day of Genesis.

Is 'old Earth' compatible with human presence from the first week?

 

[Ace1234]

Well, a host of problems develop when you consider the flood worldwide and that it destroyed all the people of the world. For one, many great civilizations existed in various parts of the world at the time of the Flood and have detailed written history of their lives the year preceding the flood, during the flood and after the flood and they make no mention of the flood. If the worldwide flood happened in the time period the bible gives, certainly these many great civilizations would've known about it.

We do have six surviving versions of what is referred to as the "Near East Flood" by others that would fit Noah's time period give or taking some years. These were written long before Gens. was written. None tell of all the people of the world being wiped out, but obvious some large local flood happened.

We also know mountains existed miles above sea level, the bible says the flood was about 22ft deep, that's a flood, but it certainly didn't rise to the heights of mountains. Some try to say it rose 22ft above the mountains, that clearly isn't what the bible says

We have many verses in the OT and new that use the "earth" as local events.

If you can ignore all the written history of the many people that lived during Noah's world flood, that's some faith.

 

[jasoncran]

And yet, an old Earth is perfectly compatible with the six day of Genesis.

and yet you call it deceptive of god to make the earth appear old and make it fully aged yet be only a few thousand years old.

how old was adam when he was formed? a baby?

or an adult?

if he was formed as a twenty yeard old and we had his body to examine and determined that age to be twenty and yet saw that he was only a day. who would be wrong?

im sorry i take the bible as it says how to read it. its not that hard free.men have left christ over oe and genesis as a myth in the so called christian seminaries.

i have read a few of those stories. its sad. but it does happen.


the whole cross violates the laws of nature and yet you accept that, theres no possible way a man could die and rise from the dead and also others raised in the ot and nt from the dead.

its about faith that is all. believe what the word does say or not.i cant make the oer see this and i give up trying.

the cross doesnt make sense at all. it never did and wont.

 

[jasoncran]

Well, a host of problems develop when you consider the flood worldwide and that it destroyed all the people of the world. For one, many great civilizations existed in various parts of the world at the time of the Flood and have detailed written history of their lives the year preceding the flood, during the flood and after the flood and they make no mention of the flood. If the worldwide flood happened in the time period the bible gives, certainly these many great civilizations would've known about it.

We do have six surviving versions of what is referred to as the "Near East Flood" by others that would fit Noah's time period give or taking some years. These were written long before Gens. was written. None tell of all the people of the world being wiped out, but obvious some large local flood happened.

We also know mountains existed miles above sea level, the bible says the flood was about 22ft deep, that's a flood, but it certainly didn't rise to the heights of mountains. Some try to say it rose 22ft above the mountains, that clearly isn't what the bible says

We have many verses in the OT and new that use the "earth" as local events.

If you can ignore all the written history of the many people that lived during Noah's world flood, that's some faith.

lived during the flood., ah the language says that all flesh died and also the lord said as the days of noe so shall son of man be when he returns

that if i take it your way we dont have a worry then as only judges a select location . im free to sin all i want.

i dont live in the me or isreal.

funny that isnt what the lord or the apostles taught.

 

[Hitch]

Well, a host of problems develop when you consider the flood worldwide and that it destroyed all the people of the world. For one, many great civilizations existed in various parts of the world at the time of the Flood and have detailed written history of their lives the year preceding the flood, during the flood and after the flood and they make no mention of the flood. If the worldwide flood happened in the time period the bible gives, certainly these many great civilizations would've known about it.

We do have six surviving versions of what is referred to as the "Near East Flood" by others that would fit Noah's time period give or taking some years. These were written long before Gens. was written. None tell of all the people of the world being wiped out, but obvious some large local flood happened.

We also know mountains existed miles above sea level, the bible says the flood was about 22ft deep, that's a flood, but it certainly didn't rise to the heights of mountains. Some try to say it rose 22ft above the mountains, that clearly isn't what the bible says

We have many verses in the OT and new that use the "earth" as local events.

If you can ignore all the written history of the many people that lived during Noah's world flood, that's some faith.

1 Peter 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


Thats about as plain as it gets

 

[Ace1234]

Like I said, you can ignore the history of the world, 1000's of dated written documents written by people in other civilizations in the years before the flood, during the flood or after the flood. How all these civilizations kept such a detailed history during the flood when they should've been dead is beyond me.

It's also clear from history that many people talked about a great local flood in this area and wrote about it long before Gens. was written. In fact if you compare all the flood stories they have much in common.

A host of scientific, historical and biblical contradictions arise if the flood was worldwide.

For many rather to say the bible is untrue, it's better to delve into the culture and language of that time, "the earth" in the OT almost always meant something local to the people writing it and it makes perfect sense.

 

[Hitch]

Like I said, you can ignore the history of the world, 1000's of dated written documents written by people in other civilizations in the years before the flood, during the flood or after the flood. How all these civilizations kept such a detailed history during the flood when they should've been dead is beyond me.

It's also clear from history that many people talked about a great local flood in this area and wrote about it long before Gens. was written. In fact if you compare all the flood stories they have much in common.

A host of scientific, historical and biblical contradictions arise if the flood was worldwide.

Can you cite one that supports the resurrection ?

For many rather to say the bible is untrue, it's better to delve into the culture and language of that time, "the earth" in the OT almost always meant something local to the people writing it and it makes perfect sense.

1 Peter 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


Or you can submit to the Holy Spirit.

 

[jasoncran]

Like I said, you can ignore the history of the world, 1000's of dated written documents written by people in other civilizations in the years before the flood, during the flood or after the flood. How all these civilizations kept such a detailed history during the flood when they should've been dead is beyond me.

It's also clear from history that many people talked about a great local flood in this area and wrote about it long before Gens. was written. In fact if you compare all the flood stories they have much in common.

A host of scientific, historical and biblical contradictions arise if the flood was worldwide.

For many rather to say the bible is untrue, it's better to delve into the culture and language of that time, "the earth" in the OT almost always meant something local to the people writing it and it makes perfect sense.

taking from the universalist.

for god so loved the world(only then the roman empire) that he gave his son so that whomsoever

therefore no modern christians exists. he didnt die for the african the asian and also the american and any russian.

salvation was limited to them and only then.

other cultures say that their god is real so which is it?

its by faith like i said. we cant and should look for proof of the claims by god all the time or when they do occur we should cautiously examine the facts to be sure.

my faith isnt in what arounds me but in whom dwells in me.

for around me is death, vanity and sin.

 

[Ace1234]

Many believe that the Genesis writers plagerized the Epic of Gilgamesh, maybe to a degree, because it was common for other religions to take stories, folklore or concepts from others. Gilgamesh is basically Sumerian history and Genesis is clearly rewritten accounts of Sumerian history passed down orally. The Hebrews come from Shem who was a son of the Sumerian Noah/Utnapishtim.

The Gilgamesh epic was written first. All peoples who lived before the flood were Sumerians.

Notice how Noah's flood story is much the same as Gilgamesh.

Here is a summary of the Gilgamesh Epic
The council of the gods decided to destroy mankind with a flood, but Utnapishtim was warned by the god who had made man, Ea, to build a boat to take all living beings. The length, width, and height were each 120 cubits (about 180 feet). It had seven stories.
The gods got frightened by the flood and retreated to heaven where they cowered and wept.
The flood lasted six days and seven nights, and was accompanied by wind and storm.
Utnapishtim send out a dove followed by a swallow, but both returned, unable to find land. He then sent a raven, which didn't return.

I realize for those that must take everything the bible says as literal, they just reject fact and claim somehow faith has the power to reject all facts, no matter how strong they are.

 

[Hitch]

Many believe that the Genesis writers plagerized the Epic of Gilgamesh, maybe to a degree, because it was common for other religions to take stories, folklore or concepts from others. Gilgamesh is basically Sumerian history and Genesis is clearly rewritten accounts of Sumerian history passed down orally. The Hebrews come from Shem who was a son of the Sumerian Noah/Utnapishtim.

The Gilgamesh epic was written first. All peoples who lived before the flood were Sumerians.

Notice how Noah's flood story is much the same as Gilgamesh.

Here is a summary of the Gilgamesh Epic
The council of the gods decided to destroy mankind with a flood, but Utnapishtim was warned by the god who had made man, Ea, to build a boat to take all living beings. The length, width, and height were each 120 cubits (about 180 feet). It had seven stories.
The gods got frightened by the flood and retreated to heaven where they cowered and wept.
The flood lasted six days and seven nights, and was accompanied by wind and storm.
Utnapishtim send out a dove followed by a swallow, but both returned, unable to find land. He then sent a raven, which didn't return.

I realize for those that must take everything the bible says as literal, they just reject fact and claim somehow faith has the power to reject all facts, no matter how strong they are.

Off topic.


Deal with what Pete wrote, and what Jesus said. Both personally affirm the Genesis account.

I realize for those that must take everything the bible says as literal, they just reject fact and claim somehow faith has the power to reject all facts, no matter how strong they are.

<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-25678">26</sup>And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-25679">27</sup>They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.





' You're stuck with the New Testament that leaves no doubt that Christ and the Apostles take a literal position as regards the Flood .'

If you can make your case from the NT references to Noah this is the place to present it.

 

[Drummer4Christ]

how old was adam when he was formed? a baby?

or an adult?

if he was formed as a twenty yeard old and we had his body to examine and determined that age to be twenty and yet saw that he was only a day. who would be wrong?

To be honest, Jason, sometimes I have difficulty understanding a point you are trying to make. This time, however, you could not be more concise!

 

[handy]

Many believe that the Genesis writers plagerized the Epic of Gilgamesh, maybe to a degree, because it was common for other religions to take stories, folklore or concepts from others. Gilgamesh is basically Sumerian history and Genesis is clearly rewritten accounts of Sumerian history passed down orally. The Hebrews come from Shem who was a son of the Sumerian Noah/Utnapishtim.

There is no way to determine that Genesis was a retelling of the Epic of Gilgamesh and there is no way to determine whether or not the Flood occurred just because there are various stories about it.

Almost all cultures have a world wide flood account, and to me, this is strong evidence that such a flood did indeed occur.

If the Flood occurred as written in Genesis, then Noah's decedents would retell the story of it to their decedents and after time legends would develop from the stories. That some of the legends might be written prior to Genesis still doens't prove that the original story was fabricated.

 

[Free]

Is 'old Earth' compatible with human presence from the first week?

An old Earth is fully compatible with the creation account.

and yet you call it deceptive of god to make the earth appear old and make it fully aged yet be only a few thousand years old.

how old was adam when he was formed? a baby?

or an adult?

if he was formed as a twenty yeard old and we had his body to examine and determined that age to be twenty and yet saw that he was only a day. who would be wrong?

We don't know the specifics.

im sorry i take the bible as it says how to read it.

As do I.

its not that hard free.

It is and it isn't. It's always those biases and presuppositions that get in the way.

men have left christ over oe and genesis as a myth in the so called christian seminaries.

Precisely because they haven't been taught that there are legitimate ways of reading the Bible literally that happen to line up with what science says. Belief in an old Earth does not make Genesis a myth.

 

[Hitch]

An old Earth is fully compatible with the creation account.

Then you wont have any trouble squaring it up with Adam's geneology

We don't know the specifics.


As do I.


It is and it isn't. It's always those biases and presuppositions that get in the way.


Precisely because they haven't been taught that there are legitimate ways of reading the Bible literally that happen to line up with what science says. Belief in an old Earth does not make Genesis a myth.

That avoids the question here, unless you are able to find support in the NT passages that speak of Genesis.

 

[Free]

Then you wont have any trouble squaring it up with Adam's geneology

If you mean using genealogies to verify the age of the Earth, most scholars agree that the biblical genealogies cannot be used for this. To try and do so is to use the genealogies for a purpose that they were never intended.

That avoids the question here, unless you are able to find support in the NT passages that speak of Genesis.

Not sure what you're saying.

 

[Barbarian]

Deal with what Pete wrote, and what Jesus said. Both personally affirm the Genesis account.

True. What they don't confirm is the modern YE interpretation.

 

[Drummer4Christ]

Why is it easier to believe that God took millions of years to create the earth, rather than six days?

The Almighty God, who breathed life into Adam, who spoke the universe into existence and most of all, whose Word is our salvation yet, must put more effort than merely breathing & speaking to create ONE planet in ONE solar system in ONE galaxy?

Sorry, not buying it.