Get Rid Of It

[D-D-W]

Hi, Dave. I see you're Messianic now : ) I was guessing by the avatar until I saw your signature, which confirmed it. I was leaning that way but the strictness spooked me a little bit. But then maybe I'm assuming things.

You bring up a good point. Those who sin unknowingly are judged differently than those who know they're doing so.

47 That servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. (Luke 12:47-48)

So how have you been. Everything good?

Blessings in Christ Jesus our Lord,
Hidden In Him

Yes I am good. Thanks for asking. And to be sure, some messianic groups are very strict; others not so much.

 

[D-D-W]

A good read on unforgiveness:

CSM

 

[Hidden In Him]

Yes I am good. Thanks for asking. And to be sure, some messianic groups are very strict; others not so much.

I'm still fascinated by the depth of Old Testament Judaism, and the spiritual meaning behind the Jewish customs and festivals. So Lord willing maybe we can discuss the various Messianic groups in practice some day. I tend to respect their scholarship as being above average.

God bless, and good to hear you are doing well.
- H

 

[Who Me]

What did Jesus say to the thief on the cross who the thief knew he was paying the price for his deeds, but knew Jesus never sinned. in Luke 23:39-43?
Did he ask for forgiveness, or did he say "Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom."

We are to forgive others as Christ forgave us.

Please read what that theift said again and you will see he confessed to his sins when he rebuked the other theif saying we are getting our due deserts.

Through out the bible there is No forgiveness without repentance.

 

[Who Me]

I think it can be a dangerous concept, because unforgiveness can hold you captive

Pleae reread what I posted because there is no unforgiveness in a Christian. Where one is offended against and that offend will not or cannot say sorry we copy Jesus on the cross and hand the incident, the offender and our feelings over to God to deal with, then we pray for the offender, intelligently, for there good.

 

[Who Me]

. It is in fact a commandment that is so important it can cost one his salvation if it is not obeyed.

Our salvation is in Jesus's hands and is perfectly secure with him.

Forgiveness and the requirement for repentance runs right through the bible.

Look at the commands for sacrifices for sin in leveticus etc.
In every one the person making a sacrifice for sin comes to the alter with their sacrifice.
In doing this they are saying I have sinned, I am a sinner and I ant forgiveness.

Who wants forgiveness, someone who is sorry who is repentant of their sin.

Jesus was teaching Jews who had been brought up on this since being old enough to understand.

They understood that they had to be sorry for sins if they wanted forgiveness.


Only those who do not understand that the gospel is built on the old testament distort Jesus's teaching into a pharasical command that Christians must always forgive.


It is far harder to hand an offender, the incident our emotions etc over to God and then pray regularly for the good of the offender.

 

[for_his_glory]

Please read what that theift said again and you will see he confessed to his sins when he rebuked the other theif saying we are getting our due deserts.

Through out the bible there is No forgiveness without repentance.

Maybe I am missing something as I do not see the thief repenting, but just saying he and the other thief are receiving the due reward for their deeds. He then asked Jesus to remember him when He came into His kingdom.

I do see the thief saying they are receiving the due reward of their deeds, but how do you factor the thief actually repenting?

Luke 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

 

[Who Me]

Maybe I am missing something as I do not see the thief repenting, but just saying he and the other thief are receiving the due reward for their deeds. He then asked Jesus to remember him when He came into His kingdom.

I do see the thief saying they are receiving the due reward of their deeds, but how do you factor the thief actually repenting?

Luke 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

He admitted his guilt and asked to be remembered. If he was not repentant Jesus would not have accepted him.

This is the same for every devout Jew who went to sacrifice for his sins.
He would admit his guilt by makeing an offering.

 

[for_his_glory]

He admitted his guilt and asked to be remembered. If he was not repentant Jesus would not have accepted him.

This is the same for every devout Jew who went to sacrifice for his sins.
He would admit his guilt by makeing an offering.

Thank you.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Our salvation is in Jesus's hands and is perfectly secure with him.

Forgiveness and the requirement for repentance runs right through the bible.

Look at the commands for sacrifices for sin in leveticus etc.
In every one the person making a sacrifice for sin comes to the alter with their sacrifice.
In doing this they are saying I have sinned, I am a sinner and I ant forgiveness.

Who wants forgiveness, someone who is sorry who is repentant of their sin.

Jesus was teaching Jews who had been brought up on this since being old enough to understand.

They understood that they had to be sorry for sins if they wanted forgiveness.

Greetings again, and thank you for the response.

This reply has a pleasant tenor to it, but it effectively neuters the parable of its driving point. As stated in my post, by describing this unforgiving man, who was once forgiven of his insurmountable debt, as now being a "wicked servant" whom his Lord now commands to be "handed over to the torturers," the clear implication is that his salvation is not perfectly secure. The implication is that it is in fact now in grave peril.

What do you interpret these things in particular as referring to (the phrases "wicked servant," and "handed over to the torturers")?

Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Hidden In Him

 

[Who Me]

Greetings again, and thank you for the response.

This reply has a pleasant tenor to it, but it effectively neuters the parable of its driving point. As stated in my post, by describing this unforgiving man, who was once forgiven of his insurmountable debt, as now being a "wicked servant" whom his Lord now commands to be "handed over to the torturers," the clear implication is that his salvation is not perfectly secure. The implication is that it is in fact now in grave peril.

What do you interpret these things in particular as referring to (the phrases "wicked servant," and "handed over to the torturers")?

Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Hidden In Him

In Matt 18:21-35 Jesus is teaching about forgiveness. He teaches two points the need for repentance and the need for those who have been forgiven to also forgive those who also repent.

There are for the Christian two aspects to forgiveness. The need for repentance and the command that we Must then forgive.

 

[Hidden In Him]

In Matt 18:21-35 Jesus is teaching about forgiveness. He teaches two points the need for repentance and the need for those who have been forgiven to also forgive those who also repent.

There are for the Christian two aspects to forgiveness. The need for repentance and the command that we Must then forgive.

Let me find a smilie for this...
Here it is! Beating a dead cow! LoL! Boy, oh boy, would that smilie come in handy elsewhere.

It's alright Who Me, and I hope you're not offended if I poke a little fun with this. I've encountered many on the forums who because they don't really have answers for the kinds of questions I pose tend to just double down on their positions without ever doing so. I've grown used to it.

Be blessed in the Lord, and hopefully we can have more agreeable conversations down the road.

Yours in Christ,
Hidden In Him

 

[Sister]

Ephesians 4:31-32 NLT
Get rid of all bitterness, anger, harsh words, and slander, as well as all types of evil behavior. Instead, be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Christ has forgiven you.

I think the saying is to beat the dead horse, though a cow would be better for beef. :biggrin

I really love how this forum is kind to one another. It really touches my heart to see this verse in practice. I pray this in my own life as well as I work with kids at school, my husband and kids at home, and in my relationships online and offline.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I think the saying is to beat the dead horse, though a cow would be better for beef. :biggrin

Looked like a cow to me, LoL. The more Biblical expression would be beating a dead ox or beating a dead donkey, as the expression "stiff-necked" referred to both (Exodus 32:9; Exodus 33:3 Deuteronomy 9:6 2 Chronicles 36:13 Jeremiah 17:23, etc.), but the latter carries such bad connotations in the modern vernacular that you can't really use it without seeming "off color."

I really love how this forum is kind to one another. It really touches my heart to see this verse in practice. I pray this in my own life as well as I work with kids at school, my husband and kids at home, and in my relationships online and offline.

I'm getting better at it. Righteousness is part of the armor of God, and a Christian is what might be referred to as "tooth-fully unarmed" if they allow debate to make them unkind in their posts. I used to. The problem is, I'm usually very honest with all my responses, thinking that an honest answer will do others more favors than hiding what I'm actually thinking. But that's where the rub comes in, as honesty is not always well received. So it's a matter of putting things as kindly as one knows how.

I think part of what makes forums like this one nice is because they're smaller, and the less traffic you have the easier it is to keep that community feel, like a true family. The question however becomes who do you let in and who do you not, as each person plays a more significant role than at larger communities where it's like a revolving door and you can hardly keep track of who's coming and going. Kinda like the difference between a country town and a big city. People know each other more so there's a different atmosphere, and a different expectation on those who are let in.

It is nice here, however. I'm wading in slowly, however, as I'm not sure how well I'd be received. As they say, I'm a "tough marry," LoL.

(Not a lot of time, though, as I said, so wading in the kiddie pool is about all I can manage right now anyway).

 

[Sister]

Eh brother, you have always been you Hidden In Him . :D Don't quote me, but I think osas is one of the topics not allowed in here. And honestly I think it is good, because I think it is distraction. Regardless of theology, we all need to living holy and righteous, honoring God with every part of our being. I think the how to do that is more beneficial in the long run. Especially when it comes to Ephesians 4.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Eh brother, you have always been you @Hidden In Him . :biggrin Don't quote me, but I think osas is one of the topics not allowed in here.

Ah yes. OSAS. The classic. I tend to avoid it like the plague. I just want to discuss scripture passages in context. That's one thing I intend on focusing on more and more in the future. Many redirect away from discussing actual passages to batting various doctrinal stances back and forth. I have zero interest in that. Just the opinions of men. The only truly productive discussion to me is to continually redirect BACK to discussion of the scriptural passages themselves, and refuse getting sidetracked.

Not sure if me always being me was a compliment or not, LoL.

Hope you have a nice day, and always fun talking with you.
- H

 

[Who Me]

've encountered many on the forums who because they don't really have answers for the kinds of questions I pose tend to just double down on their positions without ever doing so. I've grown used to it.

So how haven't I answered your question?

 

[D-D-W]

Our rabbi had an interesting sermon on forgiveness in our Yom Kippur morning service. He added in a couple of factors that kinda rocked my idea of what all forgiveness entailed. I have always looked at it as similar to a monetary transaction: Sam owes me X amount, be it dollars or to make up for what ever Sam did to me. Debt canceled, Sam is forgiven. Simple straight forward business transaction.

But he added in the part of considering the long term consequences of what ever action was done, and mourning the negative impact or loss of what ever; and THEN forgive. IMO this is a much deeper forgiveness that affects one on both a functional and emotional level.