Giving up

[francisdesales]

But your logic is confusing me. You say I can't know who's right. If I say I'm right, I'm being subjective. So I must be wrong. This is nonsense. If the Spirit is speaking through you, then how can you reject my words on the basis that you don't know who is right and who is wrong? This thinking is coming from darkness.

Basically, Mark, you are claiming that every word from you comes directly from the Holy Spirit. I am curious to know why you think you speak directly for God Himself, because that, in essence, is your claim. You are basically saying your experiences are from God - how do you know that?

We warn men the devil can take away their hope and cause them to fall into disbelief. Sin can dim the light. Definitely we need the oil of gladness. A log can get into the eye. Why not say it is possible to fall into disbelief and leave out the freewill part? No one would reject God if they knew God so it is out of ignorance that men perish and not because they have freewill. Who can resist his will? If God made them vessels for destruction, then it is God's will. I agree men can because they have freewill but as John said, 'if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out, that it might be plain that they all are not of us.' 1 John 2:19

Perhaps you can explain Lucifer, who knew God better than any person here on earth - and yet he utilized the free will given to refuse God. Have you not read Romans 1? No one has an excuse, Mark. We ALL know God well enough. As to being vessels of destruction, do you think God creates with the intent on destroying these same beings? What about "God desires ALL men be saved"?

Regards

 

[MarkT]

Good information and passing on of truth, MarkT. Thanks. And BTW, you are not a church of one as you well know.

I'm glad you said it. It's good to know. I think brother francis and brother unred will also continue with us as we will continue with them.

 

[MarkT]

Basically, Mark, you are claiming that every word from you comes directly from the Holy Spirit. I am curious to know why you think you speak directly for God Himself, because that, in essence, is your claim. You are basically saying your experiences are from God - how do you know that?

Jesus said so. Besides that, I can see and hear. The principle is fairly simple. Gain your own understanding and you will have root in yourself. Then your body will be full of light. Then you will be like a tree watered by the words of God. 'He is like a tree planted by water, that sends out its roots by the stream, and does not fear when heat comes, for its leaves remain green, and is not anxious in the year of drought, for it does not cease to bear fruit.' Jeremiah 17:8

My writing comes by the Holy Spirit. I'm the least likely speaker. I'm one who hates writing. I find it so arduous that I would do anything to avoid it if I could. I embarrass myself. I am reproved and chastened. My words hardly ever come out right the first time. Usually it takes 3 or 4 attempts or more. Why would God give knowledge to the one who hates writing and speaking most of all? It's God's will.

 

[unred typo]

Jesus said so. Besides that, I can see and hear. The principle is fairly simple. Gain your own understanding and you will have root in yourself. Then your body will be full of light. Then you will be like a tree watered by the words of God. 'He is like a tree planted by water, that sends out its roots by the stream, and does not fear when heat comes, for its leaves remain green, and is not anxious in the year of drought, for it does not cease to bear fruit.' Jeremiah 17:8

My writing comes by the Holy Spirit. I'm the least likely speaker. I'm one who hates writing. I find it so arduous that I would do anything to avoid it if I could. I embarrass myself. I am reproved and chastened. My words hardly ever come out right the first time. Usually it takes 3 or 4 attempts or more. Why would God give knowledge to the one who hates writing and speaking most of all? It's God's will.

Let’s not blame God or the Holy Spirit. You only get as much knowledge as you are able to assimilate and in order to receive wisdom, you must let go of foolishness. The more foolishness you hang onto, the easier it is to accept more foolishness and the less your capacity for truth.

 

[Solo]

Let’s not blame God or the Holy Spirit. You only get as much knowledge as you are able to assimilate and in order to receive wisdom, you must let go of foolishness. The more foolishness you hang onto, the easier it is to accept more foolishness and the less your capacity for truth.

Your lack of understanding and wisdom pertaining to God's word continue to manifest themselves within your posts. Let me give you some Scriptural counsel that would insure edification of the membership on this forum. (Keep in mind that you must incorporate the understanding that writing in this forum is metaphorical to speaking in a conversation)

Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. Proverbs 17:28

 

[unred typo]

Your lack of understanding and wisdom pertaining to God's word continue to manifest themselves within your posts. Let me give you some Scriptural counsel that would insure edification of the membership on this forum. (Keep in mind that you must incorporate the understanding that writing in this forum is metaphorical to speaking in a conversation)

Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. Proverbs 17:28

That must be one you live by. I’ll try to remember that when you refuse to answer my posts in the future.

 

[stranger]

Cybershark5886 wrote:

And the funny thing is if we are truely saved, we will automatically begin and desire to sanctify ourselves because of our new nature (it becomes our will to act on it), yet how much we sanctify ourselves is in question pertaining to how much you are progressing in the Christian life and not giving into sin. The prime issue in this is endurance. You can hit dead spots where you aren't getting any progress but the point is you keep on fighting it no matter how much you fail and sin along the way because it is in your nature to become like Jesus. Now there is peril for not progressing as many passages in the NT point out, such as the possibility of having your works burned and receiving no or little reward (though we still be saved). "If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Corinthians 3:15).

So I believe this is what is in view with how "positional sanctification" (given to us by Jesus) and "progressive sanctification" (our job - which positional sanctification empowers us to do through grace) correlate. Progressive sanctification doesn't ensure our salvation, rather it evidences it.

It's the ones that walk the line and never seem to sanctify themselves that really concern me. I can't say for sure for those people (who will probably have all their works burned if they are indeed saved). To such a person I would ask out of uncertainty "Are you sure you are really saved?" But as for the people who you described in the jail, that nature is completely contrary to the Spirit of Christ and thus (IMO) is impossible for them to have been saved and willfully murder and do such sins. So I stress that active change in behavoir evidences the actual nature of the saved person.

Hi Cyber,

The word 'progressive' has crept in front of the word 'sanctification' to give us 'progressive sanctification'. Let us drop the prefix and use the scriptural term sanctification. Below are some word search results from the NASB NT:

Romans 6:19
I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

Romans 6:22
But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.

1 Corinthians 1:30
But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

1 Thessalonians 4:1
[ Sanctification and Love ] Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more.

1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality;

1 Thessalonians 4:4
that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor,

1 Thessalonians 4:7
For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Hebrews 12:14
Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

While it is commonly held and believed that sanctification is progressive - and while I do believe that sin occurs in degrees the loss of sanctification is automatic (ie it simply occurs)- you don't actually do anything other than transgress and you automatically lose sanctification.

When Adam transgressed he lost not only his righteousness (God's image and likeness) but he also lost sanctification and, in a negative sense, there is no reason to suggest that this loss was progressive. Heb 12:14 together with a beatitude suggest that only the pure in heart will see God. This speaks of sanctification not progressive sanctification.