Giving up

[francisdesales]

Here is what the Scriptures say about one who is born of God, born again, saved.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

ANOTHER misinterpretation...

Where do these verses talk about going to heaven? Sure, we are saved by the grace of God, IN THE PAST! Where do you get absolute assurance of your future destiny from this???

Read what the Scriptures say.

Regards

 

[Solo]

Here is what the Scriptures say about one who is born of God, born again, saved.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

ANOTHER misinterpretation...

Where do these verses talk about going to heaven? Sure, we are saved by the grace of God, IN THE PAST! Where do you get absolute assurance of your future destiny from this???

Read what the Scriptures say.

Regards

The Scripture is very plain that one is saved by the one time occurrence of being born again. Try it sometime and the Holy Spirit will teach you all of the things that you are currently unable to see. You may even become a member of a Bible believing Church somewhere.

 

[francisdesales]

The Scripture is very plain that one is saved by the one time occurrence of being born again. Try it sometime and the Holy Spirit will teach you all of the things that you are currently unable to see. You may even become a member of a Bible believing Church somewhere.

Yawn.

Is that the best you can do? Ignore my questions and tell me I might "even become a member of a bible believing Church"? You have shown me your view is not biblical, but a misinterpretation of the TOTAL Scriptures. Taking verses out of context proves nothing.

I'll keep you in my prayers today as I go to worship Jesus Christ at Eucharistic Adoration in the next hour or so... Only He can open your eyes to the portions of Scriptures you CHOOSE to ignore.

Regards

 

[Solo]

Yawn.

Is that the best you can do? Ignore my questions and tell me I might "even become a member of a bible believing Church"? You have shown me your view is not biblical, but a misinterpretation of the TOTAL Scriptures. Taking verses out of context proves nothing.

I'll keep you in my prayers today as I go to worship Jesus Christ at Eucharistic Adoration in the next hour or so... Only He can open your eyes to the portions of Scriptures you CHOOSE to ignore.

Regards

My eyes have been opened to the truth. I have already been asleep like you in the past, until God Almighty taught me the truth as I sought Him in prayer and supplication seeking His truth. I never performed idol worship as you, but I believed that you could lose your salvation.

 

[francisdesales]

My eyes have been opened to the truth. I have already been asleep like you in the past, until God Almighty taught me the truth as I sought Him in prayer and supplication seeking His truth. I never performed idol worship as you, but I believed that you could lose your salvation.

Solo,

If you are so full of the truth, why do you ignore my questions? Or HAVE you read the entire New Testament yet?

As to the comment on idol worship, I suppose that is to be expected from someone who cannot back up their theology from Scriptures...

I think what bothers you the most is knowing that a lay Catholic showed you are wrong from Scripture alone. Your ignoring my questions merely points that out all the more.

Adios

 

[Solo]

Solo,

If you are so full of the truth, why do you ignore my questions? Or HAVE you read the entire New Testament yet?

As to the comment on idol worship, I suppose that is to be expected from someone who cannot back up their theology from Scriptures...

I think what bothers you the most is knowing that a lay Catholic showed you are wrong from Scripture alone. Your ignoring my questions merely points that out all the more.

Adios

And according to John's inspired writing in 1 John what is the commandment that we are to keep? and How do we know if we abide in Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ abides in us? By the Spirit which indwells us when we believe...

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1 John 3:22-24

Remember, if we sin after the flesh after being born of the Spirit of God, we have an advocate in Jesus Christ, and He is just to forgive us of our sins on the great work that He did at Calvary two thousand years ago. The new creature that is born of God the Spirit cannot sin, therefore, do not submit to the sinful flesh, but follow the Spirit throughout your life, as we are a purchased possesion meant to walk as Jesus walked serving God all of the days of our life; and when we fall, he is there to pick us up in love to carry on.

The commandment that we are given by Jesus Christ is to believe on the name of Him and to love our brother. Whoever keeps this commandment dwells in Christ, and Christ dwells in them. How do we know that Jesus Christ abides in us? By the Holy Spirit that dwells within us at the time we are born again.

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1 John 3:22-24

Please explain the meaning of this verse of Scripture which you ignored in the last answer. Those who are born again are sealed by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Ephesians 4:30

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 1:11-14

The only way that one can unravel the paradox between one that is born of God does not sin and cannot sin; and one that if one does sin we can receive forgivness of that sin is to understand the walking in the flesh and walking in the Spirit.

Jesus Christ abides in those born of God until the day of redemption as a protection of one that is bought by His blood until He can give to the Father all that was given to Him. In the verse of Scripture above we are shown how we are to know that we abide in Christ and Christ abides in us. I will post that portion of Scripture again.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1 John 3:24

Those that are born again and keep the commandment to believe on the name of Jesus Christ and to love his brother know that Christ abides in them and they abide in Christ by the Spirit which Jesus gave them; and the Spirit which Jesus will never take back until the day of redemption.

Remember what John wrote concerning a believer's assurance of their salvation:

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1 John 5:10-13

Many individuals proclaim that they know the way to the Kingdom of God or the better utopian existence in the next life; but the truth is that only those who are born again will gain access into the Kingdom of God, life eternal.

The Scripture tells us that those who were once thought of as born of God believers were not born of God at all for if they had been born of God, they would have remained abiding in Christ Jesus. There are two groups of people on the earth today; Christians or Anti-Christians. Those that are not born of God are anti-Christians. John tells us this truth below:

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1 John 2:18-19

Once one becomes born of God he should recognize that one is to overcome the old man and live in the new man. One's salvation is already purchased by the work of Jesus Christ, so the born again believer should work the works of God who dwells within him in fear and trembling knowing that these works will either stand for eternity, or be burnt up. Paul gives the believers at Philippi this exhortation as he recognizes that God works within them.


God will not remove that which he has given regardless of man's unfaithfulness. God first loved us while we were yet sinners, not after we became cleaned up. What God first began with us that are born of God will continue until completed. Those who build on the foundation of their faith, Jesus Christ, the works of God (gold, silver, precious stones) will have those works stand for eternity; however, those who build on the foundation of their faith, their own works (wood, hay, and stubble) will have those works burned up, but they themselves will be saved.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1 Corinthians 3:11-15

It is very important that born of God believers persevere in their walk of obedience to Holy Spirit. We are told to not grieve the Holy Spirit of whom we are sealed until the day of redemption.

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Ephesians 4:30

In the Scripture quoted above from 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 we see that if a born again believer builds on the foundation of his faith in Jesus Christ works not of God, those works will burn up, and the born of God believer will suffer loss as by fire but will be saved. The Scripture of Hebrews 10 shows that born of God believers will suffer physical consequences of their disobedience, but 1 Corinthians shows that said believer will not be kept out of the Kingdom of God. Let us look at Hebrews 10:

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Hebrews 10:26-30

Notice verse 30 where it states that the Lord will judge "HIS PEOPLE". This judgment will not be a judgment to decide the eternal location of the born of God believer as that has already been settled by the crucifixion; this judgment will be the judgment of rewards for the believer. The wood, hay, and stubble will be burned up, therefore the rewards will be small. Some will only gain eternal life with no position of reward; however the least in Heaven will be greater than the greatest, John the Baptist, on this earth.

Once the Holy Spirit comes to dwell within the born of God believer, we are saved and given eternal life. We must persevere in the works of God Almighty as we walk in the Spirit (follow the Spirit's guidence). We are not to quench the Spirit of whom we are sealed until the day of redemption because of the damage that it will do to ourselves in this age, and the lack of positional rewards in the Kingdom of God after this life is over. All believers will be judged, not for their eternal life as it is already theirs as promised, but for the rewards for the life that they lived as a believer. Once we are born again believers born of God, we are HIS CHILDREN, and that which is given to Jesus Christ to keep, will be kept.

Adios

 

[unred typo]

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9
Here is what those who believe in being able to lose one's salvation translate this Scripture:
1 For by grace are ye saved through faith while doing what the Israelites were told to do in the law of Moses, not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2 Not of works, which is all other things except performing up to God's standards, lest any man should boast; 3 keeping in mind that this salvation, even though it is a free gift, must be kept by continueing keeping the law of Moses or any law that we deem necessary, otherwise God will take the free gift back. bookofyoucanloseyoursalvation 1:1-3
A real stupid theology if I don't say so myself...Solo thought as he attempted a condescending comment to Unred and Joe.

I think you would do better explaining what you believe this verse means than what we believe. I can’t speak for Joe, but I would say you don’t really know what you’re talking about when you put words in my mouth. Let me retranslate what I believe, as I have many times before.

For by the unmerited grace of God, he sent his Son to die so that you could be saved through faith in believing in what Jesus taught us to do to be saved; and that salvation is offered to you not of anything that you have done of yourselves to deserve such mercy as the blood of Christ for forgiveness of sins: it is the gift of God: This gift of the blood is not owed to us by God as payment of works, lest any man should boast that God was required to save him by the blood because he had earned the right to demand salvation as payment for his works.

Plainly, there is nothing that God needs from us that he should hire us to do anything for him in return for salvation. Anything that he allows us to do for him in no way earns such an amazing gift but is undeserved by us at any cost that we may give or any deeds that we may do in obedience to him. To avail ourselves of this salvation by the forgiveness of sins because of his shed blood, we only have to repent of our sins, forsaking our own way and following Christ and do whatever he leads us to do in obedience to him. This is only our reasonable service and does not in any way earn our place in heaven.

You took my view and changed it to a straw man. Let me have a go at putting your view into plain fact:

The plain and sad fact is that some people demand that if God is to call the blood of his only begotten son a “gift,†he must unconditionally provide all aspects of salvation with it, and unconditionally guarantee eternal life forever in heaven with no chance that it can ever be lost and no amount of sinning can disqualify the sinner who has been justified once upon a time, according to their storybook version of the gospel.

Some even go so far as to say that not even sins such as murder and blasphemy must be repented of in order to expect God to save those who have done nothing more than believe in what Jesus did. Others even say that God cannot even expect sinners to believe in what Jesus did unless he also causes them to believe. All of this because their god is such a petty egomaniac that he fears giving his ‘worthless’ creation a chance to have any pride in obedience to him whatsoever. What a pathetic example of a father, let alone that of a god.

:roll:

 

[Solo]

I think you would do better explaining what you believe this verse means than what we believe. I can’t speak for Joe, but I would say you don’t really know what you’re talking about when you put words in my mouth. Let me retranslate what I believe, as I have many times before.

For by the unmerited grace of God, he sent his Son to die so that you could be saved through faith in believing in what Jesus taught us to do to be saved; and that salvation is offered to you not of anything that you have done of yourselves to deserve such mercy as the blood of Christ for forgiveness of sins: it is the gift of God: This gift of the blood is not owed to us by God as payment of works, lest any man should boast that God was required to save him by the blood because he had earned the right to demand salvation as payment for his works.

Plainly, there is nothing that God needs from us that he should hire us to do anything for him in return for salvation. Anything that he allows us to do for him in no way earns such an amazing gift but is undeserved by us at any cost that we may give or any deeds that we may do in obedience to him. To avail ourselves of this salvation by the forgiveness of sins because of his shed blood, we only have to repent of our sins, forsaking our own way and following Christ and do whatever he leads us to do in obedience to him. This is only our reasonable service and does not in any way earn our place in heaven.

You took my view and changed it to a straw man. Let me have a go at putting your view into plain fact:

The plain and sad fact is that some people demand that if God is to call the blood of his only begotten son a “gift,†he must unconditionally provide all aspects of salvation with it, and unconditionally guarantee eternal life forever in heaven with no chance that it can ever be lost and no amount of sinning can disqualify the sinner who has been justified once upon a time, according to their storybook version of the gospel.

Some even go so far as to say that not even sins such as murder and blasphemy must be repented of in order to expect God to save those who have done nothing more than believe in what Jesus did. Others even say that God cannot even expect sinners to believe in what Jesus did unless he also causes them to believe. All of this because their god is such a petty egomaniac that he fears giving his ‘worthless’ creation a chance to have any pride in obedience to him whatsoever. What a pathetic example of a father, let alone that of a god.

:roll:

When you become born again, let me know and we will rejoice in the mind of Christ Jesus, knowing that which he teaches as truth, and rebuking the false teachings of the enemy. Until then you are just spinning your wheels.

 

[francisdesales]

And according to John's inspired writing in 1 John what is the commandment that we are to keep? and How do we know if we abide in Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ abides in us? By the Spirit which indwells us when we believe...

Is there another "Solo" out there? What are you doing, cutting and pasting two day's ago conversations???

I already answered all of your questions on 1 John... We know we are abiding in Christ when we obey the Commandments. Aren't you getting tired of asking this over and over again???

I tire of answering the same questions over and over.

When you get a chance, answer my questions that you STILL ignore...

Regards

 

[Solo]

Is there another "Solo" out there? What are you doing, cutting and pasting two day's ago conversations???

I already answered all of your questions on 1 John... We know we are abiding in Christ when we obey the Commandments. Aren't you getting tired of asking this over and over again???

I tire of answering the same questions over and over.

When you get a chance, answer my questions that you STILL ignore...

Regards

You only answer the questions that you have pat answers for that are printed in the "How Catholics Answer Justification Questions of Protestants". The questions that you ignore, are the ones that you have never read or contemplated before, as they go against your canned RCC dogma.

I have answered all of your questions with a thorough representation from the Scriptures. You have failed to understand the Scriptures because of your being in the born of the flesh condition. Once you are born of the Spirit upon your repentence, belief, and confession; you will have the Holy Spirit take up residency inside of you, teaching you all things. Then you and I will be in the one unity that is spoken of in the Word of God.
Once you are born of the Spirit of God, you will realize the need to repent from your life of idolatry and false teachings, and turn to the truth of God Almighty.

 

[unred typo]

When you become born again, let me know and we will rejoice in the mind of Christ Jesus, knowing that which he teaches as truth, and rebuking the false teachings of the enemy. Until then you are just spinning your wheels.

I was “born again†according to your standards. I could have written your previous post above a few years ago because much of what you say, I once believed. Since that time, God has shown me how faith and works belong together and fit like a hand in a glove. When you let go of your storybook gospel and believe the true gospel that Jesus preached and still wants to be obeyed today, you will find it is simple and should not be made into some kind of oxymoron.

Please answer the rebuttal to your post that both Joe and I gave you and don’t try to distract the reader in a sideshow of verses that we both know and love, with some OSAS errors worked into them. If you have no answers, we will consider that your opinion has been proven inaccurate.

 

[Solo]

I was “born again†according to your standards. I could have written your previous post above a few years ago because much of what you say, I once believed. Since that time, God has shown me how faith and works belong together and fit like a hand in a glove. When you let go of your storybook gospel and believe the true gospel that Jesus preached and still wants to be obeyed today, you will find it is simple and should not be made into some kind of oxymoron.

Please answer the rebuttal to your post that both Joe and I gave you and don’t try to distract the reader in a sideshow of verses that we both know and love, with some OSAS errors worked into them. If you have no answers, we will consider that your opinion has been proven inaccurate.

You too have no questions that I have not answered. Because of your blindness to the truth you fail to see that which is so plain to see. I do not believe that one could be born of God, and remain in a state of confusion towards His word as you are.

 

[unred typo]

You too have no questions that I have not answered. Because of your blindness to the truth you fail to see that which is so plain to see. I do not believe that one could be born of God, and remain in a state of confusion towards His word as you are.

I understand what you claim to be gospel but it is not true. I’m sorry but I actually could do a better job at proving your doctrine of "salvation" than you have done. The problem is, it isn’t true, Solo. It not only lacks imagination, it lacks truth. As much as you want it to be true, it just isn’t. Without repentance of sin, there is no salvation. You spend your time with trying to box God up into a position of fulfilling your wishes, like a giant genie, doing your bidding to save unconditionally forever if you just repeat the magic phrase. Your view also lacks trust that God is good, and willing to save those who confess and repent, whoever they may be. Unless they conform to your view of God, no one can be saved in your book. A very black book it is, too.

There is confusion but it is your confusion and a confusion of your own making. Faith and works are perfectly joined in the simple truth and there is no perplexity.
:fadein:

 

[Solo]

I see everything you claim as gospel. I’m sorry but I actually could do a better job at proving your doctrine of salvation than you have done. The problem is, it isn’t true, Solo. It not only lacks imagination, it lacks truth. As much as you want it to be true, it just isn’t. Without repentance of sin, there is no salvation. You spend your time with trying to box God up into a position of fulfilling your wishes, like a giant genie, doing your bidding to save unconditionally forever if you just repeat the magic phrase. Your view also lacks trust that God is good, and willing to save those who confess and repent, whoever they may be. Unless they conform to your view of God, no one can be saved in your book. A very black book it is, too.

There is confusion but it is your confusion and a confusion of your own making. Faith and works are perfectly joined in the simple truth and there is no perplexity.
:fadein:

You keep posting and confirming my allegations that you have no idea of what Justification and Salvation are, and therefore are not born of God. God has given us a free gift, through faith, not of works lest any man should boast as you. The word of God is that writing that you call, "a very black book". Just reading your understanding of the Scripture is a disgusting, stomach turning experience. You preach repentence but you fail to repent as you continue down you path of deception. You can mock all that you want, but know that God is not mocked, and whatever you sow, you will reap. Good day.

 

[francisdesales]

I have answered all of your questions with a thorough representation from the Scriptures.

You are truly a work, aren't you... :-?

When have you even ATTEMPTED to answer my post of Tuesday, Jan 7, 0841??? Are you serious?

Remember this? I even put it for you in one little paragraph...

Explain Mat 7:21. Explain 1 John 3:23 (all of it). Explain 1 Cor 3:17. Explain 1 Cor 9:27. Explain the difference, from Scriptures, between "bad works" and sin... Explain the need to persevere if everything is already done. Explain why "faith alone" is never mentioned, except to DENY it as the salvation formula...

Not a word from you. All you do is repeat the same mantra over and over, addressing 1 John 3 which I have already answered, making silly claims about Eph 2 that speak NOTHING of being being eternally saved. Not only are you closed to the truth, you apparently are closed to the fact that you HAVE NOT answered ANYTHING I have asked. I see that you are totally befuddled by a Catholic, so you must pretend you've actually answered something and even resort to repasting the same misinterpretations of Scripture you posted earlier...

You want further proof of your error?

Reconcile ...

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:21

with

And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:21

YOUR view of Scriptures cannot reconcile the two - thus, you totally ignore Matthew 7:21, tearing it out of your bible, pretending it is not there. Thus, you never address it, although I ask you to do so a number of times.. The fact of the matter is that "being saved" and "entering the Kingdom of Heaven" are two different things. The day you realize that, the day you will begin to understand salvation as taught by the Bible.

Until you address my questions, this conversation is a waste of my time. Refuse to address ALL of Scripture at your own peril.

good bye

 

[unred typo]

You keep posting and confirming my allegations that you have no idea of what Justification and Salvation are, and therefore are not born of God. God has given us a free gift, through faith, not of works lest any man should boast as you. The word of God is that writing that you call, "a very black book". Just reading your understanding of the Scripture is a disgusting, stomach turning experience. You preach repentence but you fail to repent as you continue down you path of deception. You can mock all that you want, but know that God is not mocked, and whatever you sow, you will reap. Good day.

God gave us the free gift of the blood of Christ to wash away our sin, Solo. If you do not use it to wash away the sins you do daily, whose fault is that? Why do you say I have not repented? What have I not repented of? Using the blood to wash away my sin daily? Do you think I need to repent of using the gift of God? By confession and repentance, I am justified daily, Solo. The gift is good for all sins, one size fits all. But I must repent and confess sins when I commit them or they are not forgiven.

Joe is taught this as a catholic but I am not catholic, and never have been. I am taught this by reading scripture as lead by the Holy Spirit. It doesn’t matter who teaches you the truth if it is the truth. What you teach is not the truth but an error that you must reject. If you do not continue in repentance and following Christ, you are not his sheep. He’s trying to find you, and bring you to himself, in true repentance. That gut wrenching experience is the Spirit of God telling you to come to God and trying to bring conviction to stop resisting his truth.

The very black book is the Bible as translated by your doctrines. I am reaping what I sowed because I sowed the deception you preach for over twenty years. Now I’m trying to help others see the error in it. Don’t take my word for it, go to God and ask him to show you but if you are not willing to give up your way, you will only see your way, and not his way. Have a great day in the Lord.

 

[Solo]

God gave us the free gift of the blood of Christ to wash away our sin, Solo. If you do not use it to wash away the sins you do daily, whose fault is that? Why do you say I have not repented? What have I not repented of? Using the blood to wash away my sin daily? Do you think I need to repent of using the gift of God? By confession and repentance, I am justified daily, Solo. The gift is good for all sins, one size fits all. But I must repent and confess sins when I commit them or they are not forgiven.

Joe is taught this as a catholic but I am not catholic, and never have been. I am taught this by reading scripture as lead by the Holy Spirit. It doesn’t matter who teaches you the truth if it is the truth. What you teach is not the truth but an error that you must reject. If you do not continue in repentance and following Christ, you are not his sheep. He’s trying to find you, and bring you to himself, in true repentance. That gut wrenching experience is the Spirit of God telling you to come to God and trying to bring conviction to stop resisting his truth.

The very black book is the Bible as translated by your doctrines. I am reaping what I sowed because I sowed the deception you preach for over twenty years. Now I’m trying to help others see the error in it. Don’t take my word for it, go to God and ask him to show you but if you are not willing to give up your way, you will only see your way, and not his way. Have a great day in the Lord.

It's too bad that you think that you must repent daily in order to keep your position in Christ Jesus as if you are able to.

A born of God believer repents from sin in order to grow and become more like Jesus Christ, not for salvation. Once one is justified through the blood of Jesus Christ, they have eternal life. After justification, a born of God believer moves into the sanctification stage where he sets himself apart from his sinful flesh, and walks in the New creature fulfilling the will of God in his life. Those who walk in the flesh more than the spirit will gain less rewards than those who walk in the spirit. It is necessary to mature in the spiritual life of a Christian in order to better serve the LORD. Some mature and are able to eat the meat of the Word, while others remain babes in Christ as were the Corinthians. It must be a terrible thing hoping in ones own abilities to keep a salvation that was guaranteed by the creator of all that is. It would be better if one can mature to the point of understanding that born of God believers rest in the work of Jesus Christ, not in the work of themselves.

 

[Fnerb]

It's too bad that you think that you must repent daily in order to keep your position in Christ Jesus as if you are able to.

A born of God believer repents from sin in order to grow and become more like Jesus Christ, not for salvation. Once one is justified through the blood of Jesus Christ, they have eternal life. After justification, a born of God believer moves into the sanctification stage where he sets himself apart from his sinful flesh, and walks in the New creature fulfilling the will of God in his life. Those who walk in the flesh more than the spirit will gain less rewards than those who walk in the spirit. It is necessary to mature in the spiritual life of a Christian in order to better serve the LORD. Some mature and are able to eat the meat of the Word, while others remain babes in Christ as were the Corinthians. It must be a terrible thing hoping in ones own abilities to keep a salvation that was guaranteed by the creator of all that is. It would be better if one can mature to the point of understanding that born of God believers rest in the work of Jesus Christ, not in the work of themselves.

Solo are you saying that we need not daily repent of our sins?!

 

[Solo]

You are truly a work, aren't you... :-?

I am truly a work, and Jesus Christ is still working on me after having delivered me from the bondage of darkness in which so many still live in ignorance.

When have you even ATTEMPTED to answer my post of Tuesday, Jan 7, 0841??? Are you serious?

Remember this? I even put it for you in one little paragraph...

Explain Mat 7:21. Explain 1 John 3:23 (all of it). Explain 1 Cor 3:17. Explain 1 Cor 9:27. Explain the difference, from Scriptures, between "bad works" and sin... Explain the need to persevere if everything is already done. Explain why "faith alone" is never mentioned, except to DENY it as the salvation formula...

I will answer your questions one more time, so pay strict attention, otherwise you will miss the truth again.

Let's start with Matthew 7. Many will come to Jesus and say Lord, Lord after which they will expound on what they have done. Jesus responds to them to depart from Him, and that they work iniquity or wickedness. Notice that Jesus says that he NEVER KNEW THEM. These who say Lord, Lord have never been born again. They were never saved. They have never been children of God. Jesus NEVER KNEW THEM.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23

Let's look at 1 John 3:23 next. The commandment that Jesus gives is that we should do two things; first we should believe on the name of Jesus Christ whereby we will become born of God and receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and second to love one another. We are even exhorted by Jesus to love our enemies and our unsaved neighbors. We do this by praying for their salvation, and also for their eye and ears to be opened to hear the truth of God. Jesus is our example. Did Jesus love those around him? Did Jesus love His enemies? Yes and Yes, however He did not mince words with them as they tried to accuse him and kill him. He corrected satan with the full word of God, not just the portions that satan pulled out to lie and deceive with. Jesus corrected the legalistic pharisees by calling them vipers and hypocrites and whited sepulchers. Did he love them? Yes, Yes, Yes. Jesus gave them the truth and did not condemn them, as they were already under condemnation. There eternal state was already sealed with their unbelief. Their judgment will be for the degree of punishment for eternity.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. 1 John 3:23-24

Now we will look at 1 Corinthians 3:17. It is very important when studying the Scriptures to take everything in context. Chapters and verses within Scripture come in handy for reference sake, but they allow for doctrines to come into being by presenting scripture in bits and pieces.
Therefore, let us look at what Paul is inspired by the Holy Spirit to write in this portion of Scripture. Notice in verse 11 that Jesus Christ has laid the foundation that no other can lay, and (verse 12-14)) that those who have this foundation (in other words, those that are born of God believers) will have their works judged. Is this speaking of salvation? No. Notice in verse 14, the Scripture is specific that those who build gold, silver, precious stones upon the foundation of Jesus Christ will receive a REWARD. Verse 15 shows us that those believers who build upon the foundation of Jesus Christ wood, hay, and stubble will suffer a loss. A loss of what, salvation? No. A loss of REWARDS. Notice in verse 15 we are told that even though such a ones works were burned up, and he suffered loss, he himself shall be saved; YET SO AS BY FIRE. Paul then details that those that are born of God are temples of God because the Spirit of God lives within them; therefore, they should not defile this temple otherwise God will destroy him. What is the Temple of God? The old man in whom the Holy Spirit lives. Who will God destroy? The physical old man in whom the Holy Spirit resides. Remember verse 15 says that such a one will suffer loss, yet he himself shall be saved? A born again believer can suffer loss by living according to the flesh, but he/she will be saved while the physical realm of that person will be destroyed.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 1 Corinthians 3:11-17

Now for 1 Corinthians 9:27. What is Paul writing about in chapter 9. Let us begin with verses 15 through 18. Is Paul speaking of salvation in these verses? No. He is speaking of preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He states that if he willingly preaches the Gospel he will receive a REWARD, but if he does not preach the Gospel what would his reward be then(verses 17-18)? Now let's look at the continuation of Paul's writing in chapter 9. In verses 24-25 Paul is speaking of one who runs a race does so for a reward, such as a trophy. He compares that race to the race that born of God believers run in order to receive a reward, an incorruptible reward. He is not speaking of salvation, but of beating the flesh into subjection so that he can run the race without casting a negative light on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Notice that in verse 27, Paul is concerned that when he preaches to others, that he might be cast away and then the Gospel of Jesus Christ would not be taken by those that he preaches to and they would lose out on the great and glorious salvation that God has provided through Jesus Christ.

15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void. 16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel! 17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me. 18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel. 1 Corinthians 9:15-18

24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 1 Corinthians 9:24-27

Now in reference to some of your questions pertaining to various topics.

Explain the difference, from Scriptures, between "bad works" and sin... Explain the need to persevere if everything is already done. Explain why "faith alone" is never mentioned, except to DENY it as the salvation formula...

What is the difference between "bad works" and sin?

According to the Scriptures, sin is "missing the mark" of God's righteousness. All that is "missing the mark" of God's righteousness is sin, therefore all "bad works" is sin. There is no difference.

Explain the need to persevere if everything is already done.

Perseverance is very important in the life of a born of God believer lest God's chastisement is necessary. Notice this truth in Hebrews how awful the chastisement of God on His children if and when necessary. Does God chastise born of God believers so that they are no longer His children? No. He chastises them so that they can become more like His son Jesus Christ. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Those who are not chastised are "bastards" and are not "sons".

1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. Hebrews 12:1-11

Explain why "faith alone" is never mentioned, except to DENY it as the salvation formula...

What must one add to faith prior to becoming born of God? Nothing. Good works come after one is born of God. The Scripture is very plain that works comes after faith in Ephesians 2. Notice in verses 8-9 that born of God believers are SAVED by grace through FAITH, and THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES: IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD: NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST. And then comes the important fact of salvation; born of God believers are HIS WORKMANSHIP, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS UNTO GOOD WORKS, WHICH GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM.

So according to this Scripture, does SALVATION through faith come first after which believers walk in Good works created in Christ Jesus? Another fact is that without the foundation of this faith, the foundation that Jesus Christ laid, that a born of God believer is building his temple upon; there can be no good works through faith. The evidence of one having the saving faith of Jesus Christ in ones life is the good works which manifest the faith through faith.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:4-10

Do not get salvation through faith confused with performing good works through faith. These are two different subjects. Without salvation, good works through faith is impossible. Hebrews 11 is a very good chapter to read concerning this faith.

Not a word from you. All you do is repeat the same mantra over and over, addressing 1 John 3 which I have already answered, making silly claims about Eph 2 that speak NOTHING of being being eternally saved. Not only are you closed to the truth, you apparently are closed to the fact that you HAVE NOT answered ANYTHING I have asked. I see that you are totally befuddled by a Catholic, so you must pretend you've actually answered something and even resort to repasting the same misinterpretations of Scripture you posted earlier...

You want further proof of your error?

Reconcile ...

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:21

with

And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:21

YOUR view of Scriptures cannot reconcile the two - thus, you totally ignore Matthew 7:21, tearing it out of your bible, pretending it is not there. Thus, you never address it, although I ask you to do so a number of times.. The fact of the matter is that "being saved" and "entering the Kingdom of Heaven" are two different things. The day you realize that, the day you will begin to understand salvation as taught by the Bible.

Until you address my questions, this conversation is a waste of my time. Refuse to address ALL of Scripture at your own peril.

good bye

 

[Solo]

Solo are you saying that we need not daily repent of our sins?!

We need to repent moment by moment each day when sin enters our life, but that has nothing to do concerning our salvation which is guaranteed by God's promise of eternal life to those who repent, believe, and follow Jesus. Those who have been born of God have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them, sealing them unto the day of redemption when Jesus returns.

The justification of a believer comes at the point of His initial repentance, confession, and obedience to the word of God. Unfortunately, believers still have the sinful flesh to contend with, but God's grace is sufficient enought to keep us until Jesus returns. At that point this corrupt, mortal flesh will put on incorruption and immortality; and will be united with that born of God New Creature that came into being the moment of belief.

The sanctification of a beliver comes during the remainder of the born of God believers walk on this earth learning day to day by the teaching of the Holy Spirit by transforming our minds not conforming to this world. This portion of our life is one of repentence and confession to God so that our fellowship with Him is restored, and our walk in the Spirit is renewed again.

The glorificatio of a believer comes during the return of Jesus Christ when he will appear, and we will be changed to be as he is, free from sin, and ready to inherit all things through Jesus Christ.