Gnosticism and its influence on New Age

[soma]

You have not shown that the Gnostic writings are anti-Christ. You have shown that you don't understand the spirit. I feel sorry for you to have to speak against consciousness. It shows ignorance of the spirit, consciousness and Christ. You are trying to separate people from God's love.

"And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from his (God's) love. Death can't, and life can't. The angels can't, and the demons can't. Oure fears for today, our worries about tomorrow, and evn the powers of hell can't keep God's love away. Whether we are high above the sky or in the deepest ocean, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39 NLT

You are trying to separate us from God's love by being against everything. God's love embraces everything. I am sorry for you that you don't feel it and have to be so bitter.

 

[Solo]

You have not shown that the Gnostic writings are anti-Christ. You have shown that you don't understand the spirit. I feel sorry for you to have to speak against consciousness. It shows ignorance of the spirit, consciousness and Christ. You are trying to separate people from God's love.

"And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from his (God's) love. Death can't, and life can't. The angels can't, and the demons can't. Oure fears for today, our worries about tomorrow, and evn the powers of hell can't keep God's love away. Whether we are high above the sky or in the deepest ocean, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39 NLT

You are trying to separate us from God's love by being against everything. God's love embraces everything. I am sorry for you that you don't feel it and have to be so bitter.

I did not know you were a gnostic, Soma. That explains alot.

God's love does not embrace everything, and don't be sorry for those that know the Lord Jesus Christ, feel sorry for those that believe that they have been born again but are not.

 

[soma]

I am not a gnostic, but they have not harmed or hurt anyone. Their ideas bring others to Christ and spirituality so why do we bash them. I will defend anything that is not bad from anti Christ, Christian bullies.

 

[Free]

You have not shown that the Gnostic writings are anti-Christ. You have shown that you don't understand the spirit. I feel sorry for you to have to speak against consciousness. It shows ignorance of the spirit, consciousness and Christ. You are trying to separate people from God's love.

"And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from his (God's) love. Death can't, and life can't. The angels can't, and the demons can't. Oure fears for today, our worries about tomorrow, and evn the powers of hell can't keep God's love away. Whether we are high above the sky or in the deepest ocean, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39 NLT

You are trying to separate us from God's love by being against everything. God's love embraces everything. I am sorry for you that you don't feel it and have to be so bitter.

Firstly, I am not "against everything"; I am against heresy which is so plainly and utterly anit-Christ. Secondly, while I did not deal directly with Gnostic writings, I dealt with the teachings of Gnosticism which are based on the writings. Thirdly, I am not ignorant of the Holy Spirit or Christ. Fourthly, I most certainly am not trying to "separate people from God's love". Gnosticism has very little, if anything, to do with God's love. It certainly has nothing to do with the Christian God, the God of Christ, which you would see if you bothered to read what I posted.

Fifthly, Holy Scripture also makes plain what happens to those who preach another gospel and another Christ - they spend eternity apart from God; they are accursed.

Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--
Gal 1:7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

So just what is this gospel and how are we saved? Let's look at what Scripture states:

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it--
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

But what does Gnosticism teach? As I posted previously:

"69. What brings about salvation?

Salvation is brought about neither by faith (belief in God, or Christ) nor by works (the performance of good deeds), but by Gnosis.

70. Why is this so?

Because faith and works do not result in a radical change in the being of one's consciousness, but Gnosis does."

Holy Scripture teaches that salvation is through faith in Christ and his work on the cross, while Gnosticism explicitly denies this. How much clearer can the error of Gnosticism be? If you still want to think that I am trying to keep people from God's love and that I am nothing more than a bitter bully, then reconcile the Sciptures I gave with the teachings of Gnosticisim. Until you can do so, I am right and Gnosticism is a heresy.

I am not a gnostic, but they have not harmed or hurt anyone. Their ideas bring others to Christ and spirituality so why do we bash them

The fact is that Gnosticism leads people to a false Christ and a false gospel. As such it leads people astray, away from God and actually does great harm to people. One of the biggest problems with people who claim to be "spiritual" is that they blindly accept all things spiritual when Scripture clearly warns us against doing so. I am continually astounded by such an utter lack of discernment amongst "spiritual persons"; it is really quite frightening.

I will defend anything that is not bad from anti Christ, Christian bullies.

Then defend something that is not anti-Christ because Gnosticism clearly is. I will defend against supposed Christians trying to pass off the fatal heresy of Gnosticism as truth from God.

 

[Geo]

69. What brings about salvation?

Salvation is brought about neither by faith (belief in God, or Christ)
nor by works (the performance of good deeds), but by Gnosis.

70. Why is this so?

Because faith and works do not result in a radical change in the being of
one's consciousness, but Gnosis does.

Soma,
That's pure and uncut anti-christ, without that belief AC cannot come to power,
and it's this very same "christ-consciousness" that's the ticket to hell.
To say this is not by a righteousness I invented, it's a Love warning
knowing the only possible outcome of it. Above 2 points are not even
the 'clever version' of the lie, but still: God was and is not in it, and it
does not lead you to Jesus. Yes it will you to spirtuality, the kind that
cannot be cleaned up again, except by fire.

 

[Solo]

I am not a gnostic, but they have not harmed or hurt anyone. Their ideas bring others to Christ and spirituality so why do we bash them. I will defend anything that is not bad from anti Christ, Christian bullies.

Are you a born again Christian?

 

[PDoug]

Let me plainly state that Gnostic scriptures are the most highly esteemed words of God I've ever seen. Period. Pistis Sophia is absolutely golden. I say all of this based on my judgment of Gnostic scriptures - which is my prerogative to make (1 Corinthians 2:14-16).

And I'll state just as plainly that the Gnostic scriptures are not the words of God. Period. You judge based on 1 Cor. but it is your very incorrect assumption that by "spiritual man" Paul is referring to someone who is "spiritual" in the modern sense of the word. That passage is speaking about believers in Christ, to whom Paul is writing, who have received the Holy Spirit; that is what Paul means by "spiritual man".

Let's get it from the horse's mouth, so to speak, about what Gnosticism really teaches - http://www.gnosis.org/ecclesia/catechism.htm#LESSON IV:
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69. What brings about salvation?

Salvation is brought about neither by faith (belief in God, or Christ) nor by works (the performance of good deeds), but by Gnosis.

70. Why is this so?

Because faith and works do not result in a radical change in the being of one's consciousness, but Gnosis does.

71. What does the radical change of consciousness brought about by Gnosis accomplish?

It establishes a renewed link of the soul with the spirit and of both with God. This breaks the bonds that have shackled our true being to the forces of earth. Ultimately it brings liberation from all earthly things."

This is totally against the very clear teachings of Scripture. From the above, Gnosticism clearly teaches that:

1. Faith in Christ isn't needed for salvation, rendering his birth, life, death and resurrection utterly pointless and useless. Instead reconciliation with God comes through gnosis.

2. Salvation is for the elite few and is not available for everyone.

3. Salvation is from ignorance, not a sinful nature which has completely separated us from God, rendering all of Paul's writing on the need for reconciliation meaningless.

4. That faith in Christ doesn't bring about change. Again, totally anti-biblical, ignoring the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit.

The following is what I wrote here:

Wow, PDoug, it is difficult to know where to start. You clearly are very ignorant of Gnostic beliefs and what the early Church thought of them. You seem to fail to understand that the very essence of Gnosticism is very anti-Christ. It is no wonder why so many "New Agers" so readily accept Gnosticism. It has no place in the life of someone who claims to be a believer.

I don't know what to tell you. I am unable to find an issue with early Gnosticism. More than that, I am unable to find a significant issue with the early Gnostic writings I have read so far, such as those found in the Nag Hammadi Library, in addition to Pistis Sophia. I will not go so far as to endorse modern day Gnosticism, but I'm very much convinced about the authenticity of the early Gnostic texts - in much the same way I'm convinced about the current day Church's Holy text (the Bible). I will say flat out that there is no way anyone can reasonably characterize early Gnostic writings as anti-Christ. In fact, early Gnostic writings elevate Christ far more than the Bible does - for real!

The following is what I wrote here:

It is true that new agers use Gnostics text: but these same new agers use the bible as well. There are a number of groups today who call themselves Gnostics and are into astral travel and related things. These things however don't concern me. What is important, is that everyone recognize that certain Gnostic texts (e.g. those found in the Nag Hammadi Library - and also Pistis Sophia) really have been inspired by the Holy Spirit, and it would behoove everyone to ensure that he has faith correctly, so that he may enjoy these scriptures.

I referenced an article here, that shows that the largest denomination of the Church (the Cotholics) subscribe to the doctrine of justification by works, and hence is unsaved (Galatians 5:4). Now given the fact that this Church is the direct descendant of the early Church, whose gospel has been corrupted, why do you believe that many current Gnostics (whose religion is also corrupted as far as I can tell) do not have a legacy of pure scriptures, the same as the Catholics? If the Holy Bible came from the early church and has been inherited by the now apostate Catholics, why can't early Gnostic scriptures have been pure as well, and have been inherited by current day Gnostics? Look also at the Jews, didn't we receive the Old Testament found in our Bibles (that we deem to be pure) from them: a now apostate people?

Note the following excerpts from the early Gnostic text, The Tripartite Tractate:

It is he, the Father, who gave root impulses to the aeons, since they are places on the path which leads toward him, as toward a school of behavior. He has extended to them faith in and prayer to him whom they do not see; and a firm hope in him of whom they do not conceive; and a fruitful love, which looks toward that which it does not see; and an acceptable understanding of the eternal mind; and a blessing, which is riches and freedom; and a wisdom of the one who desires the glory of the Father for <his> thought.
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The Logos added even more to their mutual assistance and to the hope of the promise, since they have joy and abundant rest and undefiled pleasures. He generated those whom he remembered at first, when they were not with him, (he generated them) having the perfection. Dittography Now, while he who belongs to the vision is with him, he exists in hope and faith in the perfect Father, as much as the Totalities. He appears to him before he mingles with him, in order that the things which have come into being might not perish by looking upon the light, for they cannot accept the great, exalted stature.
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As for the baptism which exists in the fullest sense, into which the Totalities will descend and in which they will be, there is no other baptism apart from this one alone, which is the redemption into God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, when confession is made through faith in those names, which are a single name of the gospel, when they have come to believe what has been said to them, namely that they exist. From this they have their salvation, those who have believed that they exist. This is attaining in an invisible way to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in an undoubting faith. And when they have borne witness to them, it is also with a firm hope that they attained them, so that the return to them might become the perfection of those who have believed in them and (so that) the Father might be one with them, the Father, the God, whom they have confessed in faith and who gave (them) their union with him in knowledge.

All the excerpts above note the importance of faith. The last excerpt notes that salvation is attained by having faith.

Note also the following excerpts from the early Gnostic text, Pistis Sophia:

Chapter 32

"And Pistis Sophia cried out most exceedingly, she cried to the Light of lights which she had seen from the beginning, in which she had had faith, and uttered this repentance, saying thus:

"'1. O Light of lights, in whom I have had faith from the beginning, hearken now then, O Light, unto my repentance. Save me, O Light, for evil thoughts have entered into me.

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"'3. And I cried for help, but my voice hath not reached out of the darkness. And I looked unto the height, that the Light, in which I had had faith, might help me

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"'6. Suffer me no more to lack, O Lord, for I have had faith in thy light from the beginning; O Lord, O Light of the powers, suffer me no more to lack my light.

Chapter 68

"And the word which thy light-power hath spoken through David: 'Thou wilt tread on serpent and basilisk and tread on lion and dragon; because he hath trusted in me, I will save him and I will overshadow him, because he hath known my name,'--that is the word: When Pistis Sophia was on the point of coming forth out of the chaos, she trod on the emanations of Self-willed, and she trod on the serpent-faced ones and on the basilisk-faced ones, which haves even heads; and she trod on the lion-faced power and on the dragon-faced one. Because she had had faith in the Light, is she saved from all of them.

About half of Pistis Sophia is about a being who craved to be with God (the Light), and her becoming deceived and horribly persecuted for it, and her relying on her faith in the Light for her salvation. The faith she practiced is the same as the one outlined by Christ in Mark 11:22-24.

As I said before, I don't endorse current day Gnostic groups per se. What I'm saying is that old Gnostic scriptures are pure, and the fact that they are held by many lost current day Gnostic groups, do not undermine their purity, anymore than the purity of the scriptures in the Bible are not undermined by the fact that they are held by many current day apostate Christian and Jewish groups.

 

[PDoug]

Yes, good point. But there is one weakness with the concept
'abilities' can continue to drive your cause after initial revelation
without further direct communication with God. Then they drive on
"their own fuel" and because you regard them with preference
from that moment on they separate you from direct communication with God.

God wants our fresh and undivided attention day by day, hour by hour.

What a wonderful insight Geo,......


A matter of subjective and objective;

1 Timothy 1 : 19, "Holding faith and a good cconscience, concerning which some, thrusting these away, have become shipwrecked regarding the faith;..."

The phrase "the faith" spoken of at the end of the verse is objective, referring to the things in which we believe (Christ, His person and His redemptive work), whereas the faith we hold to, spoken of at the beginning of this verse is subjective, referring to the act of our believing.


See, subjective faith (our act of believing) comes from our objective faith (the thing in which we believe), thus the moment we take our eyes off of Christ we become shipwrecked in our subjective faith, in our act of believing, meaing, we place our faith in something other than Christ (our abilities) and therefore our believing becomes an act out of this replacement (out of our abilities) rather than out of Christ.



Honestly Geo, PDoug's response, and then your response, were both direct causes of God, for after asking PDoug about the matter of objective and subjective I was at a loss regarding how to further present the matter scripturally.

But praise God, He knew exactly how to bring the speaking in.


PDoug,... in all humility, I would seriously ask you to consider very deeply what is being spoken to you. I truly see that the Lord has a present burden to bring you on deeper into Himself, but will you allow Him to?


In love,
cj

Please look at the following scripture:

1 Timothy 1

18 Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight,
19 holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith.
20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

When Paul referred to "these" in verse 19 above, he was referring to having faith and a good conscience (which, a good conscience i.e., comes from having faith). Paul then went on to say that it was because a number of individuals had rejected their faith, their faith (i.e. their practice of having faith in Christ per Mark 11:22-24, and all the promises they were to receive as a result of it) became shipwrecked or destroyed.

Regarding the notions of subjective and objective faith: you really don't have to worry about these things. (I myself have not looked at their legitimacy.) Christ outlined in Mark 11:22-24 how someone is to go about having faith. The only thing you need to be concerned about is having faith per Christ's instructions in Mark 11:22-24. After that, everything falls into place - including your comprehension about the ways of God.

 

[Geo]

Yes you have to worry about objective and subjective faith,
because one is based on God explaining you the basic reality
of the universe, and the other on you explaining God how His
universe works.

Which view is sustainable over time, realistically speaking?

 

[PDoug]

Yes you have to worry about objective and subjective faith,
because one is based on God explaining you the basic reality
of the universe, and the other on you explaining God how His
universe works.

Which view is sustainable over time, realistically speaking?

How does anything that you say above affect someone's ability to ask God for things, and believe that he will receive them - which, per Christ, is how someone should go about having faith (Mark 11:22-24)?

 

[Geo]

Faith based on a compromised gospel or based on a false salvation
involving any of these gnostic attributes do not hinder the effeciveness
of answered prayer. But answered by whom? Resulting in stronger
and confirmed faith in whom? Examine the source. Most people that
find no fault with gnostic relevancy are blind in regard to how Satan works.

Whenever you start adding to, deleting from or shifting weight on DETAILS
of God's word you are on the wrong track already. Everything you build on
that may be true and consistent in itself, but you still end up missing the source.

That's the principle where self-righteousness is portayed as righteousness,
and we cannot find the fault immerdiately. Yes, but Jesus does. And not
I need to be covinced about this matter, He does. Talk to him. He is the judge.

 

[PDoug]

Faith based on a compromised gospel or based on a false salvation
involving any of these gnostic attributes do not hinder the effeciveness
of answered prayer. But answered by whom? Resulting in stronger
and confirmed faith in whom? Examine the source. Most people that
find no fault with gnostic relevancy are blind in regard to how Satan works.

Whenever you start adding to, deleting from or shifting weight on DETAILS
of God's word you are on the wrong track already. Everything you build on
that may be true and consistent in itself, but you still end up missing the source.

That's the principle where self-righteousness is portayed as righteousness,
and we cannot find the fault immerdiately. Yes, but Jesus does. And not
I need to be covinced about this matter, He does. Talk to him. He is the judge.

It is so very apparent that you do not believe in having faith consistent with Christ's instructions on how to do so in Mark 11:22-24. Therefore you do not have real faith as far as God and the bible is concerned. You then turn around and challenge the authenticity of my relationship with God, when it is solidly based on scripture in the bible. I bear fruit and don't see where you do, yet you suggest that I'm in the wrong and you are in the right where it comes to having a sound relationship with God.

Is there not one Jesus and one Father, and if someone prays to these two individuals irrespective of how they are described in various texts, that person still prays to the same two individuals? If two people are told about John Brown (the first is given an accurate description of who he is, and the second is given a distorted view of who he is), and both people call out to him, don't these two people both (legitimately) call out to John Brown? How does someone being given a false description of John Brown undermine the fact that that person called out to John Brown? Therefore if having faith is calling out to God, asking Him for things while believing that you will receive it (Mark 11:22-24), what does it matter the sources of your views of Him? If a man has an inaccurate picture of God, and yet calls out to Him, isn't God still bound by His word to make the man righteous because of his faith? And if God causes the man to become righteous because of his faith, won't that result in the man getting an increasingly accurate picture of God, irrespective of how he approached Him? Therefore the idea that the legitimacy of a person's faith in God is affected by the direction he comes to God, does not hold. If someone has faith in God consistent with Mark 11:22-24, then that person has a legitimate relationship with God. End of story.

I quite frankly see no difference between you and the Pharisees and other Jews who persecuted Christ and the early church. I see no evidence that you have faith, yet you go around piously suggesting that others are unrighteous, because they do and say things that you don't understand. You anger the Holy Spirit with your wreckless behavior! Have faith correctly and bear fruit, before going around and passing judgment on the ways of God you don't understand!

 

[Geo]

You've answered this one yourself already, a Pharisee of old referred
people to the law because they could not deal with or understand the
new reality of Jesus. I referred you to Jesus, because I can not deal
with the exended law of gnosis.

Now because you still seem to think I discuss you and not the matter
of a subject, dear vanity, let me talk about myself instead. It boils down
to self-righteousness vs God's righteousness, self-dependency
vs dependency on Jesus.

In this regard I can no longer trust myself. My own intelligence,
perception and abilities work against me. They all work together to
create an impressive and believable picture to gain my trust.
But it's all meaningless vanity. We are all liars and have absolutely
no basis and ground to stand before the Son.

Only His grace alone can stand before Him. Let me be covered by
this grace, because myself I am miserable and naked.

If I have the option to either choose my own abilities or His cross,
I'll take the cross. Only it can save me from my own understanding,
that is just darkness with a few good sounding tought out and scriptural
justifications. And I reject the gifts of Satan and his lofty self-centeredness.

Sin doesn't die, brilliance doesn't die, vanity doesn't die - but I can die to it,
so I no longer be held captive by it. I'm free in Jesus Christ. Thank you, Lord.

Whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be
My disciple (Luke 14:33).

 

[pfilmtech]

Faith based on a compromised gospel or based on a false salvation
involving any of these gnostic attributes do not hinder the effeciveness
of answered prayer. But answered by whom? Resulting in stronger
and confirmed faith in whom? Examine the source. Most people that
find no fault with gnostic relevancy are blind in regard to how Satan works.

Whenever you start adding to, deleting from or shifting weight on DETAILS
of God's word you are on the wrong track already. Everything you build on
that may be true and consistent in itself, but you still end up missing the source.

That's the principle where self-righteousness is portayed as righteousness,
and we cannot find the fault immerdiately. Yes, but Jesus does. And not
I need to be covinced about this matter, He does. Talk to him. He is the judge.

The current Gospel of the New Testament was not fully decided until well intro the 4th century. Doubtless until that time many Christian scholars likely used some texts that are now considered aprochypa. Are you saying there were no Christians before this time?

 

[Geo]

Are you saying there were no Christians before this time?

I can not personally find myself saying that. Why are you
suggesting it?

 

[pfilmtech]

Are you saying there were no Christians before this time?

I can not personally find myself saying that. Why are you
suggesting it?

Because the Bible are you know did not exist at this time. You were implying any writings outside the current Buible was automatically false.

 

[cj]

..... was automatically false.

Define what you think is meant by false, in the context of this discussion.


In love,
cj

 

[pfilmtech]

In Geo's post at the top of the page he was implying that scriptures outside the current Bible are false. I was merely pointing out that the current Bible took hundreds of years to be compiled and edited(it's current form dates from about 400 AD). Things were added things were taken out. Chances are apocyrpha texts were at one point accepted as canon.

 

[cj]

In Geo's post at the top of the page he was implying that scriptures outside the current Bible are false. I was merely pointing out that the current Bible took hundreds of years to be compiled and edited(it's current form dates from about 400 AD). Things were added things were taken out. Chances are apocyrpha texts were at one point accepted as canon.

Okay,... but again I will ask you, define what you think is meant by false, in the context of this discussion.

Thanks.


In love,
cj

 

[Geo]

pfilmtech you are looking for a backward compatibility for a group
of people that is currently not living on this earth, so the relevancy
for us is only theoretical. However, you might find someone
that understands the historical justifications of God if you repost
your question in one of the Bible study sections.

For the others still reading this thread I like to quote two people
that made related statements to the subject. Let's have a look
if we can either confirm or dismantle these:

1) "People replace the working of the Holy Spirit with a vain religious
intellectualism. Some people actually think they understand the word
of God by their paradigms. "

2) "Dialectic Synthesis: Myth+Truth=Deception"

To point 1 I was so bold to say no to 'own paradigms' and want to deliver
another reason: End-times deception. The deception is so great that
even the believers are almost deceived (Mark 13:22); so there is no chance at all
for unbelievers who refuse the truth in this age. Believers with 'own paradigms'
will see how strong their faith really is, and how good they are equipped to
discern the nature of the deception.

Anyone know a short example to point 2?