God became Man under the name Jesus Christ.

[MarkT]

What does He say by the prophet? 'that men may see and know, may consider and understand together, that the hand of the LORD has done this, the Holy One of Israel has created it.' Isaiah 41:20 Indeed he calls him the hand of the LORD; the Holy One of Israel. 'I am He, I am the first and I am the last.' Indeed. 'My hand laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens'

Isa 51:9
Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in days of old, the generations of long ago. Was it not thou that didst cut Rahab in pieces, that didst pierce the dragon?

Isa 52:10
The LORD has bared his holy arm before the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

Isa 53:1
Who has believed what we have heard? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

I believe the arm of the LORD was seen in human form.

You shall see and your heart shall rejoice; your bones shall flourish like grass; and it shall be known that the hand of the LORD is with his servants, and his indignation is against his enemies. Isaiah 66:14

And he sits at the right hand of God.

 

[handy]

:-? I'm probably going to kick myself for even jumping in here, or at least kick a dead horse but here goes:

MEC, can you please reconcile what you just posted regarding the Word/word in John 1 with what John specifically wrote in John 1:14.

handy,

No need to 'kick yourself'.

Is this the scriputure to which you refer?

[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Then God tried his darnedest to offer this word through his propets. OVER AND OVER again, but it seemed that ONLY the propthets would accept it or understand it. He was rejected OVER AND OVER. Then God decided it was TIME to make the WORD manifest. So God sent His Son to BRING this word DIRECTLY from Him to the WORLD. The Word BECAME flesh.

This is the paragraph from that offered above. I think that it is pretty simply put. But let me add, "and dwelt among us"?

Now, I ask YOU: what does this mean? "And we beheld his glory, the glory as of the ONLY Begotten of the Father". Who's glory? Who IS The Father? And HOW was the Word MADE flesh?

MEC

Well, there is a need to kick myself, (ouch, ouch :-D ) because I jumped into this thread with a question, and now find myself using all my "on-line time" in other discussions. After a while, I'm sure that I will have said all I'm going to say regarding those other discussions and then get back to this one. I want to have time to really read through everything before opining any further. Those are legitmate questions you have asked there MEC, and I want to give a good answer not just an off the cuff one.

 

[Imagican]

handy,

Looking forward to your replies. For it seems that many have never even questioned the 'meaning' behind the words that they read. Choosing instead to simply 'accept' what has been offered them by 'others'.

I choose to dwelve into the meanings of rather than the 'taught' meanings of what is offered. For there is NO reason to believe that God is UNABLE to offer ME the explanation any MORE than He would offer to ANY OTHER.

I have NO 'preconceived notions' concerning The Word. And it's AMAZING how 'easy' it seems to be for others to simply ACCEPT what they are TOLD rather than rely on 'their OWN faith' to lead them in what God has offered through His prophets and His OWN Son, through His Word.

MEC

 

[SpiritualSon]

He IS; the Son of God. He is CERTAINLY a 'part' of the Godhead. But that is STILL a mystery to us so

What does it mean to be "part of the Godhead"? Isn't "Godhead" a non-biblical word? I dont know what you mean....

Jesus Christ being the Godhead means the Divine Trinity is in Him. He is all three at once, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He commanded the Disciples to baptize in the name of these three. He talking to about Himself, because after He went into heaven the Disciples started to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ.

Harry :fadein:

 

[Imagican]

He IS; the Son of God. He is CERTAINLY a 'part' of the Godhead. But that is STILL a mystery to us so

What does it mean to be "part of the Godhead"? Isn't "Godhead" a non-biblical word? I dont know what you mean....

Jesus Christ being the Godhead means the Divine Trinity is in Him. He is all three at once, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He commanded the Disciples to baptize in the name of these three. He talking to about Himself, because after He went into heaven the Disciples started to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ.

Harry :fadein:

Harry,

You stating this is not a problem so far as 'opinion' is concerned. But beware of what you offer as 'fact'. For what you offer is NOT definded as 'such' through scripture.

You 'say' that Godhead MEANS: 'the Divine Trinty', yet this is NOT offered through scripture. You may 'believe' that it is SO, but it is NOT offered through The Word. And Jesus COULD NOT have been 'all three at once' while building his ministry here on earth. For, IF this were so, then all the scriptures that we have of Christ STATING that the Father is GREATER, what He offered was NOT HIS OWN, etc, etc, etc, would be UNTRUTH.

So, while all three 'AGREED AS ONE' there is NO way that all three could BE 'one'. For Christ SPECIFICALLY offers us in understanding that He and the Father are NOT 'the same' ONE. But rather; AS ONE in 'agreement' of 'each other'.

MEC

 

[Devekut]

Imagican,

So, while all three 'AGREED AS ONE' there is NO way that all three could BE 'one'. For Christ SPECIFICALLY offers us in understanding that He and the Father are NOT 'the same' ONE. But rather; AS ONE in 'agreement' of 'each other'.

This sounds like an implicit Tritheism. The real unity of the Godhead is absolutely essential to our monotheistic faith. There is only one God, and that oneness is not matter of agreement but one of nature.

The Trinity, in some form, is quite inescapable if we accept two basic criteria:

1. of the Jewish faith that the God is one without a second
2. of the Jewish-Christian experience that Jesus is God.

 

[SpiritualSon]

Why would the Disciples disobey the Lord?
"And Peter said to them, 'Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;...'" Acts 2:38.

If Jesus had indeed specifically commanded his apostles to "baptize in the name of the father and the son and the holy Spirit" that the apostles would later disobey his direct command and baptize only in the name of Jesus Christ, alone.

Before the days of Jesus Christ, there was no direct link or bridge between the Divine and the Human, between the infinite and the finite. Apart from a few religious geniuses, people could not approach their Creator, except through an angel, and all worship had to be in the form of ritual. This had lead to alienation of people from God, resulting in the uprise of the hells. To prevent the situation from arising again, God took steps to assume a human nature, which would bring Him into direct personal contact with every individual member of His human family. No more need of a sacrificial angels, not even of a temple! "The tabernacle of God" was to be with people.

The old, false idea of God was that He was, is, and ever has been, a trinity of three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, all existing side by side since before the creation of the universe. The theory is that at a certain point in time, one of these three persons, the Son, came into the world as a baby, grew up here to adult status, was crucified, was buried, and then ascended back to Heaven, to rejoin the Father and the Holy Ghost; after which everything was as it had been.

The main error here is the supposition that the Son of God existed as a second person of the Holy Trinity since the beginning.

A son must have a mother, and there were no women available before the creation. Mary of Nazareth was the mother of Jesus, and she came comparatively late in the story.



If the Son had been there from the beginning, surely He would have been mentioned in the Old Testament, which He isn't! On the contrary, Jehovah declares in Isaiah: "I am God, and there is none else." (Isaiah 45:21.) The "Son of God" mentioned in Daniel 3:25 is a mistranslation which should read: "a son of the gods" - Nebuchadnezzar's idea of a glorious spiritual being. It was, of course, an angel. (See Psalm 34:7).

If the Son of God had been in existence from eternity, presumably an adult, how was it that He came into Mary's womb as an embryo, then a fetus, and finally a sucking baby? Surely He would have arrived a full-grown man, knowing everything! Why be born a child if you are a man already before creation?

It is true that Jesus claimed to have been in existence since "before Abraham was." (John 8:58.) He was not a created being, like other men. His soul was Jehovah Himself, the great "I am." That is why, when Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I am!" the Jews tried to stone Him for blasphemy. He did not say, however, that He had been the Son of God prior to His birth in Bethlehem.

Let us make the point perfectly clear. In so far as Jesus was Divine, He was God. Not the Son of God (which He was when mixed with Mary's heredity) but simply God. The Son of God means the Father in His Divine Humanity or the Father became Man, born of the virgin Mary

Harry :fadein:

 

[SpiritualSon]

Here is a great loving woman who read the writings of Swedeborg, and those read the writings and live a good loving life will feel the same as her:

by Helen Keller
One day back in high school I picked up a dusty copy of My Religion, (now entitled Light in My Darkness), the spiritual autobiography of Helen Keller (1880-1968). I had seen the The Miracle Worker, a stage play about this amazing American icon, and wanted to know what the spiritual life of a deaf, blind woman at the turn of the century would be like – especially one who contributed and achieved so much in life despite what some would consider severe handicaps. Time magazine, in fact had named her among the one-hundred most influential people of the twentieth century.

I was immediately struck by the profundity of her words and her perceptions. Her book testified to her deep and abiding gratitude to Emanuel Swedenborg, whose spiritual theology inspired and informed her character and her life. Says Keller, “Swedenborg’s writings are the voice in my silence. When I remember these truths, I am strong again, and full of joy. I am no longer deaf and blind. His writings have brought down to me Truths from Heaven that have given my spirit a thousand wings.â€Â

Harry

 

[handy]

handy,

Looking forward to your replies. For it seems that many have never even questioned the 'meaning' behind the words that they read. Choosing instead to simply 'accept' what has been offered them by 'others'.

I choose to dwelve into the meanings of rather than the 'taught' meanings of what is offered. For there is NO reason to believe that God is UNABLE to offer ME the explanation any MORE than He would offer to ANY OTHER.

I have NO 'preconceived notions' concerning The Word. And it's AMAZING how 'easy' it seems to be for others to simply ACCEPT what they are TOLD rather than rely on 'their OWN faith' to lead them in what God has offered through His prophets and His OWN Son, through His Word.

MEC

I've decided not to pursue this thread, MEC, because whatever I would contribute here would be reduntant as the same points are being made on the "Word" thread that you started. Look for any contributions I may have regarding John 1:14 on that thread.

Regarding what God is UNABLE to do: God isn't UNABLE to do anything. But God probably isn't interested in pandering to spiritual pride either. Not, I'm not trying to accuse you personally MEC of being spiritually proud, but just making a general comment towards all of us. God has given us all that we need, but sola scriptura isn't Biblical, and never was Biblical. Part of the "tool kit" that God provides everyone born on this planet is, the Bible and the fact that we learn from each other, and spiritual leaders such as pastors and teachers who are responsible for us. Just as we are warned to beware of false prophets, we are also exhorted to "appreciate those who diligently labor among you, and have charge over you in the Lord and give you instructions, and that you esteem them very hightly in love because of their work." (1 Thessalonians 5:12-13)