GOD CREATED MAN (ADAM) SINFUL

[jeremiah1five]

“Sin” or “sinful” as Strong defines the word means "missing the mark."
What is the "mark?"
The mark (or standard) is the glory of God (or the glory that is God.)


I used to believe early when after I was saved because I was taught this from the pulpit that man/Adam was created sinless, was holy, and innocent before he disobeyed God and ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and became a sinner. But as I learned more and more through the years how to study, and the Holy Spirit within me began to teach me things about this "so-great salvation" that contradicted at times the teachings from the pulpit and Home Bible-Study instructors, I found myself in a peculiar situation. Do I believe what I am hearing, or do I believe the Scripture and the anointing that was so very evident in my life and in my studies. I trusted the Word of God and what I was coming to see was indeed the building of this "so-great salvation" and the "working out of my own salvation" in my life. I hope there is something in this submission that the Lord uses to also build that "mansion" in your own life. So, in consideration of James 3:11, let me begin.

I find no difference between these two Directives: The Law of God and the Commands of God. The Law of God are His Commands, and the Commands of God are Law. We find in Scripture that the existence of the Law shows us that we are indeed sinners.
A very good, clear, and concise instruction from the apostle Paul on this very thing is found in his letter to the Christians at Rome. He says:

Romans 7:7 (KJV)
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Simply put, the existence of a Law shows us that we are sinners. "Thou shalt not steal" shows us we are thieves. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" shows us that we are unfaithful, and so on. We also learn early on that there is only One God, there is none like Him, and He gives His glory (of which Holiness, Righteousness, Omniscience, Omni-present, etc., are His glory) to NO ONE.

When God created man/Adam from the dust of the ground, the man/Adam possessed no Deific Attributes. God did not give His glory to man. It is quite impossible really, as God cannot re-duplicate, transfer, share, give, any aspect of His Nature and His glory to created matter - in the case of man/Adam who was created from something – the dust of the ground, the earth.

1 Corinthians 15:45-50 (KJV)
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[Verse 50 is significant, as it is relevant to this post, but its inclusion will make this post very long to explain.]

Verse 49 states that man/Adam had "borne the image of the earthy." Yet, Genesis states the [we] are "made" in the image of God who is heavenly (1:26).
So, here we have what seems a contradiction. Which is it? When we find a seeming contradict in Scripture what do we do? Do we take hold of that Scripture that supports our theology? Or do we ask, seek, knock, and search deeper and await God to apply His Truth so that each passage coincides and "fits" His theology? ("theology" is a compound word from two Greek words: "theos" means "God," and "logy" comes from the word "logos," meaning "word" or "thought." Thus, put together means "Word of God."
So, as we consider man/Adam in his creation and apply the Law/Command of God to Adam, and the fact that the existence of [the] Law shows us we are sinners, so does this apply to Adam? Very simple: The Law/Command of God is in the Garden showing Adam (and us) that Adam was sinner before he disobeyed God:

Genesis 2:17 (KJV)
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, THOU SHALT NOT eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Applying what Paul taught about the existence of the Law in Romans 7:7, it would look like this:

ADAM: "What shall I say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law (or Command): for I had not known DISOBEDIENCE, except the law had said, Thou shalt not [eat of it.]"

Adam did bear the image of God in body, soul, and [human] spirit, a trichotomy. But he was also created of the earth, and thus Paul teaches Adam was "earthy" [of the earth.] The image of God is Christ, not Adam. Adam is of the earth, earthy; the image of God is His Son, Christ. And there is no better image of a Father than a Son.

Man/Adam was created sin-ful, or "missing the mark [of the glory of God]." He was a sinner BEFORE he disobeyed. Thus, he was created sin-ful.

1 Samuel 24:13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked:

Sin [disobedience] comes from sinner, sin does not come from holy. The last Adam proved this. Christ was Holy, Christ was Righteous, Christ was Sinless, He did not sin. But the first man, who bore the image of the earthy (and not of 'heaven' as 1 Cor. 15:49 states), sinned.

He sinned because he was a sinner. He is not a sinner because he sinned.

 

[BB1956]

“Sin” or “sinful” as Strong defines the word means "missing the mark."
What is the "mark?"
The mark (or standard) is the glory of God (or the glory that is God.)


I used to believe early when after I was saved because I was taught this from the pulpit that man/Adam was created sinless, was holy, and innocent before he disobeyed God and ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and became a sinner. But as I learned more and more through the years how to study, and the Holy Spirit within me began to teach me things about this "so-great salvation" that contradicted at times the teachings from the pulpit and Home Bible-Study instructors, I found myself in a peculiar situation. Do I believe what I am hearing, or do I believe the Scripture and the anointing that was so very evident in my life and in my studies. I trusted the Word of God and what I was coming to see was indeed the building of this "so-great salvation" and the "working out of my own salvation" in my life. I hope there is something in this submission that the Lord uses to also build that "mansion" in your own life. So, in consideration of James 3:11, let me begin.

I find no difference between these two Directives: The Law of God and the Commands of God. The Law of God are His Commands, and the Commands of God are Law. We find in Scripture that the existence of the Law shows us that we are indeed sinners.
A very good, clear, and concise instruction from the apostle Paul on this very thing is found in his letter to the Christians at Rome. He says:

Romans 7:7 (KJV)
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Simply put, the existence of a Law shows us that we are sinners. "Thou shalt not steal" shows us we are thieves. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" shows us that we are unfaithful, and so on. We also learn early on that there is only One God, there is none like Him, and He gives His glory (of which Holiness, Righteousness, Omniscience, Omni-present, etc., are His glory) to NO ONE.

When God created man/Adam from the dust of the ground, the man/Adam possessed no Deific Attributes. God did not give His glory to man. It is quite impossible really, as God cannot re-duplicate, transfer, share, give, any aspect of His Nature and His glory to created matter - in the case of man/Adam who was created from something – the dust of the ground, the earth.

1 Corinthians 15:45-50 (KJV)
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[Verse 50 is significant, as it is relevant to this post, but its inclusion will make this post very long to explain.]

Verse 49 states that man/Adam had "borne the image of the earthy." Yet, Genesis states the [we] are "made" in the image of God who is heavenly (1:26).
So, here we have what seems a contradiction. Which is it? When we find a seeming contradict in Scripture what do we do? Do we take hold of that Scripture that supports our theology? Or do we ask, seek, knock, and search deeper and await God to apply His Truth so that each passage coincides and "fits" His theology? ("theology" is a compound word from two Greek words: "theos" means "God," and "logy" comes from the word "logos," meaning "word" or "thought." Thus, put together means "Word of God."
So, as we consider man/Adam in his creation and apply the Law/Command of God to Adam, and the fact that the existence of [the] Law shows us we are sinners, so does this apply to Adam? Very simple: The Law/Command of God is in the Garden showing Adam (and us) that Adam was sinner before he disobeyed God:

Genesis 2:17 (KJV)
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, THOU SHALT NOT eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Applying what Paul taught about the existence of the Law in Romans 7:7, it would look like this:

ADAM: "What shall I say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law (or Command): for I had not known DISOBEDIENCE, except the law had said, Thou shalt not [eat of it.]"

Adam did bear the image of God in body, soul, and [human] spirit, a trichotomy. But he was also created of the earth, and thus Paul teaches Adam was "earthy" [of the earth.] The image of God is Christ, not Adam. Adam is of the earth, earthy; the image of God is His Son, Christ. And there is no better image of a Father than a Son.

Man/Adam was created sin-ful, or "missing the mark [of the glory of God]." He was a sinner BEFORE he disobeyed. Thus, he was created sin-ful.

1 Samuel 24:13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked:

Sin [disobedience] comes from sinner, sin does not come from holy. The last Adam proved this. Christ was Holy, Christ was Righteous, Christ was Sinless, He did not sin. But the first man, who bore the image of the earthy (and not of 'heaven' as 1 Cor. 15:49 states), sinned.

He sinned because he was a sinner. He is not a sinner because he sinned.

This is just another attempt to blame God for sin and death. The fact is, that sin came into the world because of Adam's disobedience, and because Adam was a sinner death came into the world. Sin and death causes chaos and God isn't the author of chaos. What I mean is chaos doesn't originate from God, so if you say God created Adam a sinner, and it's a fact that Adam being a sinner is why there is sin and death, and it's sin and death which causes chaos, then your saying God is the source of chaos which isn't true. Sin and death came into existence because of Adam and Eve disobedience, concerning the forbidden tree.

Adam and Eve being made in the image of God means that Adam and Eve were capable of expressing the qualities of God which are: love, wisdom, Justice, and Power.

Although mankind are born in sin today because of the sin of Adam and Eve, humans can still display God’s qualities. So, Paul encouraged Christians of his day: “Become imitators of God, as beloved children.” (Ephesians 5:1) Throughout history, though, most have demonstrated a gross disregard for God’s qualities. By the time of Noah, men had become so corrupt that YHWH God determined to destroy all mankind except for Noah and his family. Noah was “a righteous [just] man. He proved himself faultless among his contemporaries,” and he demonstrated his love of God by carrying out God’s commands. “Noah proceeded to do according to all that God had commanded him. He did just so.” (Genesis 6:9, 22) Noah showed love for his fellowman and his attachment to justice by being “a preacher of righteousness.” (2 Peter 2:5) He showed wisdom and properly used his physical power by following God’s direction to build a huge ark, store food in it, collect animals, and go into the ark at YHWH God command. He also showed his love of righteousness in not letting his wicked neighbors corrupt him.

 

[JLB]

“Sin” or “sinful” as Strong defines the word means "missing the mark."
What is the "mark?"
The mark (or standard) is the glory of God (or the glory that is God.)


I used to believe early when after I was saved because I was taught this from the pulpit that man/Adam was created sinless, was holy, and innocent before he disobeyed God and ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and became a sinner. But as I learned more and more through the years how to study, and the Holy Spirit within me began to teach me things about this "so-great salvation" that contradicted at times the teachings from the pulpit and Home Bible-Study instructors, I found myself in a peculiar situation. Do I believe what I am hearing, or do I believe the Scripture and the anointing that was so very evident in my life and in my studies. I trusted the Word of God and what I was coming to see was indeed the building of this "so-great salvation" and the "working out of my own salvation" in my life. I hope there is something in this submission that the Lord uses to also build that "mansion" in your own life. So, in consideration of James 3:11, let me begin.

I find no difference between these two Directives: The Law of God and the Commands of God. The Law of God are His Commands, and the Commands of God are Law. We find in Scripture that the existence of the Law shows us that we are indeed sinners.
A very good, clear, and concise instruction from the apostle Paul on this very thing is found in his letter to the Christians at Rome. He says:

Romans 7:7 (KJV)
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Simply put, the existence of a Law shows us that we are sinners. "Thou shalt not steal" shows us we are thieves. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" shows us that we are unfaithful, and so on. We also learn early on that there is only One God, there is none like Him, and He gives His glory (of which Holiness, Righteousness, Omniscience, Omni-present, etc., are His glory) to NO ONE.

When God created man/Adam from the dust of the ground, the man/Adam possessed no Deific Attributes. God did not give His glory to man. It is quite impossible really, as God cannot re-duplicate, transfer, share, give, any aspect of His Nature and His glory to created matter - in the case of man/Adam who was created from something – the dust of the ground, the earth.

1 Corinthians 15:45-50 (KJV)
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[Verse 50 is significant, as it is relevant to this post, but its inclusion will make this post very long to explain.]

Verse 49 states that man/Adam had "borne the image of the earthy." Yet, Genesis states the [we] are "made" in the image of God who is heavenly (1:26).
So, here we have what seems a contradiction. Which is it? When we find a seeming contradict in Scripture what do we do? Do we take hold of that Scripture that supports our theology? Or do we ask, seek, knock, and search deeper and await God to apply His Truth so that each passage coincides and "fits" His theology? ("theology" is a compound word from two Greek words: "theos" means "God," and "logy" comes from the word "logos," meaning "word" or "thought." Thus, put together means "Word of God."
So, as we consider man/Adam in his creation and apply the Law/Command of God to Adam, and the fact that the existence of [the] Law shows us we are sinners, so does this apply to Adam? Very simple: The Law/Command of God is in the Garden showing Adam (and us) that Adam was sinner before he disobeyed God:

Genesis 2:17 (KJV)
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, THOU SHALT NOT eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Applying what Paul taught about the existence of the Law in Romans 7:7, it would look like this:

ADAM: "What shall I say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law (or Command): for I had not known DISOBEDIENCE, except the law had said, Thou shalt not [eat of it.]"

Adam did bear the image of God in body, soul, and [human] spirit, a trichotomy. But he was also created of the earth, and thus Paul teaches Adam was "earthy" [of the earth.] The image of God is Christ, not Adam. Adam is of the earth, earthy; the image of God is His Son, Christ. And there is no better image of a Father than a Son.

Man/Adam was created sin-ful, or "missing the mark [of the glory of God]." He was a sinner BEFORE he disobeyed. Thus, he was created sin-ful.

1 Samuel 24:13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked:

Sin [disobedience] comes from sinner, sin does not come from holy. The last Adam proved this. Christ was Holy, Christ was Righteous, Christ was Sinless, He did not sin. But the first man, who bore the image of the earthy (and not of 'heaven' as 1 Cor. 15:49 states), sinned.

He sinned because he was a sinner. He is not a sinner because he sinned.

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Genesis 1:26-28

• So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion…

From these statement, where do you see the idea of Adam and Eve being created as sinners?


A sinner is someone by definition as being separated from the Lord.

A sinner who is separated from the Lord is not blessed.

Blessed in it’s most basic form means to have eternal life.











JLB

 

[jeremiah1five]

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Genesis 1:26-28

• So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion…

From these statement, where do you see the idea of Adam and Eve being created as sinners?


A sinner is someone by definition as being separated from the Lord.

A sinner who is separated from the Lord is not blessed.

Blessed in it’s most basic form means to have eternal life.











JLB

Before the high priest can enter the holy of holies, he needs to have his sins atoned (covered) and there are washings involved. Now, none of my two responders considered the question of a Righteous God creating an unrighteous man. This act would impugn the character of God and bring His Righteousness into question. Now the Scripture:

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev. 13:8.

Before God created the world, and Strong's defines the word 'world' as 'kosmos' which means not only the material world, but inhabitants, a lamb was slain. The Greek word 'kosmos':

from the base of <G2865> (komizo); orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitant, literal or figurative [moral]).

The Scripture states that a lamb was slain before the foundation (creation) of the world. What happen here? Who or what was the lamb? Did God create a lamb for the sole purpose of sacrificing it before He created the animal(s) in Genesis? No, I don't see that. Before God began creating animals the only lamb was the Lamb of God in eternity. THIS atonement or sacrifice allowed a Righteous God to create an unrighteous man - Adam.

I'm a sinner. I'm born again. I'm not separated from God. Paul says as much about himself in Romans 7. Was he separated from God? No, he was not. And you're forgetting the biblical definition of the word 'sin.' It means 'to miss the mark.' What mark is being referred here? The 'mark' or 'bullseye' is the glory of God. Think archery.

 

[JLB]

I'm a sinner. I'm born again. I'm not separated from God. Paul says as much about himself in Romans 7.

If you are a sinner, then by biblical definition you are separated from Christ.

For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:26


As a Christian, you are a saint, a just one, holy and joined to Christ, being one spirit with Him.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17







JLB

 

[jeremiah1five]

This is just another attempt to blame God for sin and death. The fact is, that sin came into the world because of Adam's disobedience, and because Adam was a sinner death came into the world. Sin and death causes chaos and God isn't the author of chaos. What I mean is chaos doesn't originate from God, so if you say God created Adam a sinner, and it's a fact that Adam being a sinner is why there is sin and death, and it's sin and death which causes chaos, then your saying God is the source of chaos which isn't true. Sin and death came into existence because of Adam and Eve disobedience, concerning the forbidden tree.

Adam and Eve being made in the image of God means that Adam and Eve were capable of expressing the qualities of God which are: love, wisdom, Justice, and Power.

Although mankind are born in sin today because of the sin of Adam and Eve, humans can still display God’s qualities. So, Paul encouraged Christians of his day: “Become imitators of God, as beloved children.” (Ephesians 5:1) Throughout history, though, most have demonstrated a gross disregard for God’s qualities. By the time of Noah, men had become so corrupt that YHWH God determined to destroy all mankind except for Noah and his family. Noah was “a righteous [just] man. He proved himself faultless among his contemporaries,” and he demonstrated his love of God by carrying out God’s commands. “Noah proceeded to do according to all that God had commanded him. He did just so.” (Genesis 6:9, 22) Noah showed love for his fellowman and his attachment to justice by being “a preacher of righteousness.” (2 Peter 2:5) He showed wisdom and properly used his physical power by following God’s direction to build a huge ark, store food in it, collect animals, and go into the ark at YHWH God command. He also showed his love of righteousness in not letting his wicked neighbors corrupt him.

QUOTE: Sin and death came into existence because of Adam and Eve disobedience, concerning the forbidden tree.
RESPONSE: 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Rom. 8:20–21.

Man was made (created) subject to vanity and in order to be 'delivered from the BONDAGE of corruption' we must needs be in BONDAGE in the first place. So, yes, the Scripture reveals man (Adam) was created sin-ful.

and - now there's a lot here....

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is cthe Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly
1 Cor. 15:42–49.

Again, as I said, the image of God is the Son, not Adam. The only image Adam possessed of God was a trichotomy: body, soul, human spirit (NOT Holy Spirit). Human spirit.

QUOTE: Adam and Eve being made in the image of God means that Adam and Eve were capable of expressing the qualities of God which are: love, wisdom, Justice, and Power.
RESPONSE: Adam possessed none of those deific qualities (attributes) of love, wisdom, justice, and power. Those belong to God alone. And God did not transfer, reduplicate His Nature into Adam.

QUOTE: By the time of Noah, men had become so corrupt that YHWH God determined to destroy all mankind except for Noah and his family.
RESPONSE: Adam's sin of disobedience was not a corruption? Too bad he didn't bring [every] thought [of disobeying before the act] into captivity to Christ.

QUOTE: Noah was “a righteous [just] man. He proved himself faultless among his contemporaries,” and he demonstrated his love of God by carrying out God’s commands. “Noah proceeded to do according to all that God had commanded him. He did just so.” (Genesis 6:9, 22) Noah showed love for his fellowman and his attachment to justice by being “a preacher of righteousness.” (2 Peter 2:5)
RESPONSE: There is NOTHING in Scripture that Noah loved God's enemies. To do so is treasonous to his King and Lord. But Scripture does record Noah was a preacher of righteousness. But love? You're adding to the bible here, chief. He wasn't 'faultless,' either. If he was faultless he would not need grace which he found in the eyes of God. Grace is unmerited favor. If he was faultless he would not need grace. He would have merited it.

 

[jeremiah1five]

If you are a sinner, then by biblical definition you are separated from Christ.

For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:26


As a Christian, you are a saint, a just one, holy and joined to Christ, being one spirit with Him.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17







JLB

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 Jn. 1:8.

Your belief contradicts Scripture.

Here, too:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. Rom. 7:7.

We sin because we are sinners. We are not sinners because we sin.

 

[BB1956]

QUOTE: Sin and death came into existence because of Adam and Eve disobedience, concerning the forbidden tree.
RESPONSE: 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Rom. 8:20–21.

Man was made (created) subject to vanity and in order to be 'delivered from the BONDAGE of corruption' we must needs be in BONDAGE in the first place. So, yes, the Scripture reveals man (Adam) was created sin-ful.

and - now there's a lot here....

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is cthe Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly
1 Cor. 15:42–49.

Again, as I said, the image of God is the Son, not Adam. The only image Adam possessed of God was a trichotomy: body, soul, human spirit (NOT Holy Spirit). Human spirit.

QUOTE: Adam and Eve being made in the image of God means that Adam and Eve were capable of expressing the qualities of God which are: love, wisdom, Justice, and Power.
RESPONSE: Adam possessed none of those deific qualities (attributes) of love, wisdom, justice, and power. Those belong to God alone. And God did not transfer, reduplicate His Nature into Adam.

QUOTE: By the time of Noah, men had become so corrupt that YHWH God determined to destroy all mankind except for Noah and his family.
RESPONSE: Adam's sin of disobedience was not a corruption? Too bad he didn't bring [every] thought [of disobeying before the act] into captivity to Christ.

QUOTE: Noah was “a righteous [just] man. He proved himself faultless among his contemporaries,” and he demonstrated his love of God by carrying out God’s commands. “Noah proceeded to do according to all that God had commanded him. He did just so.” (Genesis 6:9, 22) Noah showed love for his fellowman and his attachment to justice by being “a preacher of righteousness.” (2 Peter 2:5)
RESPONSE: There is NOTHING in Scripture that Noah loved God's enemies. To do so is treasonous to his King and Lord. But Scripture does record Noah was a preacher of righteousness. But love? You're adding to the bible here, chief. He wasn't 'faultless,' either. If he was faultless he would not need grace which he found in the eyes of God. Grace is unmerited favor. If he was faultless he would not need grace. He would have merited it.

Adam wasn't created sinful. Sinful means immoral and wicked, prone to commit sins. God would never say that something that is sinful which would mean immoral and wicked to be very good. (Genesis 1:31) God created Adam with the ability to obedient to him. God never condones disobedience. So God didn't create Adam with a sinful nature. If he did then that would mean God created Adam to be wicked and immoral. So like I said you're just trying as many have in the past to blame God that sin and death is from him that he is the source of sin and death, so you're saying God is the source of chaos because sin and death do cause chaos. This is unscriptural God isn't the source of sin and death so he's not the source of chaos

Man was created in “God’s image.” (Genesis 1:26, 27) He, like all other created things, existed and was created because of God’s will. (Revelation 4:11) God’s assigning to him work showed that man was to serve God’s purpose on earth. (Genesis 1:28; 2:8, 15) According to the inspired apostle, man was created to be both “God’s image and glory” (1 Corinthian 11:7), so to reflect the qualities of his Creator, conducting himself so as to reflect the glory of God. As God’s earthly son, man should resemble, be like his heavenly Father. To be otherwise would be to contradict and reproach the divine parenthood of God. (Malachi 1:6)

 

[jeremiah1five]

Adam wasn't created sinful. Sinful means immoral and wicked, prone to commit sins. God would never say that something that is sinful which would mean immoral and wicked to be very good. (Genesis 1:31) God created Adam with the ability to obedient to him. God never condones disobedience. So God didn't create Adam with a sinful nature. If he did then that would mean God created Adam to be wicked and immoral. So like I said you're just trying as many have in the past to blame God that sin and death is from him that he is the source of sin and death, so you're saying God is the source of chaos because sin and death do cause chaos. This is unscriptural God isn't the source of sin and death so he's not the source of chaos

Man was created in “God’s image.” (Genesis 1:26, 27) He, like all other created things, existed and was created because of God’s will. (Revelation 4:11) God’s assigning to him work showed that man was to serve God’s purpose on earth. (Genesis 1:28; 2:8, 15) According to the inspired apostle, man was created to be both “God’s image and glory” (1 Corinthian 11:7), so to reflect the qualities of his Creator, conducting himself so as to reflect the glory of God. As God’s earthly son, man should resemble, be like his heavenly Father. To be otherwise would be to contradict and reproach the divine parenthood of God. (Malachi 1:6)

QUOTE: Adam wasn't created sinful. Sinful means immoral and wicked, prone to commit sins.
RESPONSE: How can you disagree with my statement and then agree by saying he was 'prone to commit sins?' That's exactly what Adam did. He sinned. And this is what Scripture says on that question:

As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked
1 Sam. 24:13.

That's another way of saying sin comes from sinner, which is what he did.

QUOTE: God would never say that something that is sinful which would mean immoral and wicked to be very good. (Genesis 1:31)
RESPONSE: The word in Hebrew that God saw and said, 'very good' is a word that means "satisfactory,' or 'good enough.' It does not mean [morally] good. That's another word and it is NOT being used here.

QUOTE: God created Adam with the ability to obedient to him. God never condones disobedience. So God didn't create Adam with a sinful nature. If he did then that would mean God created Adam to be wicked and immoral.
RESPONSE: Are you actually looking at the Scripture I post that support my position or are you like just using the 'Force?' IF Adam was created holy or righteous then God transferred or reduplicated His Nature in a created piece of dust of the ground and God cannot do that. There is ONLY ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory (of which holiness and righteousness is His nature) to Adam. IF Adam was holy and righteous then HE MUST also have the other attributes of Deity like omniscience, omnipotence, All-Knowing, etc., to possess or Adam would 'fall short of God's glory [MISS THE MARK - which means sin/sinner.]

QUOTE: So like I said you're just trying as many have in the past to blame God that sin and death is from him that he is the source of sin and death, so you're saying God is the source of chaos because sin and death do cause chaos. This is unscriptural God isn't the source of sin and death so he's not the source of chaos
RESPONSE: I've posted the Scripture which supports my position. Why do you refuse to understand? It's right there in black and white.

QUOTE: Man was created in “God’s image.” (Genesis 1:26, 27) He, like all other created things, existed and was created because of God’s will. (Revelation 4:11) God’s assigning to him work showed that man was to serve God’s purpose on earth. (Genesis 1:28; 2:8, 15) According to the inspired apostle, man was created to be both “God’s image and glory” (1 Corinthian 11:7), so to reflect the qualities of his Creator, conducting himself so as to reflect the glory of God. As God’s earthly son, man should resemble, be like his heavenly Father. To be otherwise would be to contradict and reproach the divine parenthood of God. (Malachi 1:6)
RESPONSE: Again, the Image of God is His Son. There is no better image of a father than a son, or don't you have children?

 

[BB1956]

QUOTE: Adam wasn't created sinful. Sinful means immoral and wicked, prone to commit sins.
RESPONSE: How can you disagree with my statement and then agree by saying he was 'prone to commit sins?' That's exactly what Adam did. He sinned. And this is what Scripture says on that question:

As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked
1 Sam. 24:13.

That's another way of saying sin comes from sinner, which is what he did.

QUOTE: God would never say that something that is sinful which would mean immoral and wicked to be very good. (Genesis 1:31)
RESPONSE: The word in Hebrew that God saw and said, 'very good' is a word that means "satisfactory,' or 'good enough.' It does not mean [morally] good. That's another word and it is NOT being used here.

QUOTE: God created Adam with the ability to obedient to him. God never condones disobedience. So God didn't create Adam with a sinful nature. If he did then that would mean God created Adam to be wicked and immoral.
RESPONSE: Are you actually looking at the Scripture I post that support my position or are you like just using the 'Force?' IF Adam was created holy or righteous then God transferred or reduplicated His Nature in a created piece of dust of the ground and God cannot do that. There is ONLY ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory (of which holiness and righteousness is His nature) to Adam. IF Adam was holy and righteous then HE MUST also have the other attributes of Deity like omniscience, omnipotence, All-Knowing, etc., to possess or Adam would 'fall short of God's glory [MISS THE MARK - which means sin/sinner.]

QUOTE: So like I said you're just trying as many have in the past to blame God that sin and death is from him that he is the source of sin and death, so you're saying God is the source of chaos because sin and death do cause chaos. This is unscriptural God isn't the source of sin and death so he's not the source of chaos
RESPONSE: I've posted the Scripture which supports my position. Why do you refuse to understand? It's right there in black and white.

QUOTE: Man was created in “God’s image.” (Genesis 1:26, 27) He, like all other created things, existed and was created because of God’s will. (Revelation 4:11) God’s assigning to him work showed that man was to serve God’s purpose on earth. (Genesis 1:28; 2:8, 15) According to the inspired apostle, man was created to be both “God’s image and glory” (1 Corinthian 11:7), so to reflect the qualities of his Creator, conducting himself so as to reflect the glory of God. As God’s earthly son, man should resemble, be like his heavenly Father. To be otherwise would be to contradict and reproach the divine parenthood of God. (Malachi 1:6)
RESPONSE: Again, the Image of God is His Son. There is no better image of a father than a son, or don't you have children?

If you're going to go by what I say, don't say what I didn't say. I didn't say that God created Adam sinful, I said if God had created Adam sinful he would be prone to commit sins. So since I said God didn't create Adam sinful, that means Adam wasn't created with a sinful nature, so he wasn't prone to sin. Adam was however created with the ability to obey God or not obey God, So Adam had the ability to make free moral choices. It would be immoral, wicked, for Adam to disobey God, but God didn't create Adam to be disobedient. God wanted Adam because of his love for God who gave him life and created Adam in such a way he would enjoy life, to be obedient to God because of the love Adam had for the true God. So God didn't create Adam with a sinful nature.

 

[jeremiah1five]

If you're going to go by what I say, don't say what I didn't say. I didn't say that God created Adam sinful, I said if God had created Adam sinful he would be prone to commit sins. So since I said God didn't create Adam sinful, that means Adam wasn't created with a sinful nature, so he wasn't prone to sin. Adam was however created with the ability to obey God or not obey God, So Adam had the ability to make free moral choices. It would be immoral, wicked, for Adam to disobey God, but God didn't create Adam to be disobedient. God wanted Adam because of his love for God who gave him life and created Adam in such a way he would enjoy life, to be obedient to God because of the love Adam had for the true God. So God didn't create Adam with a sinful nature.

Let's do it this way...

Does sin come from sinner?

Or

does sin come from holy.

There's only two ways about it and one is biblical, the other is not.

 

[BB1956]

Let's do it this way...

Does sin come from sinner?

Or

does sin come from holy.

There's only two ways about it and one is biblical, the other is not.

Sin and death came into existence because of disobedience to the command concerning the forbidden tree. God told Adam to not eat from the forbidden tree if he did he would die. The scriptures show we die because of this sin, Adam being disobedient to the command to not eat from the forbidden tree. God created Adam with the ability to make free moral choices of whether Adam will or will not obey the true God. Disobedience to God's command is a sin. Sin brings forth death. God didn't create Adam to be disobedient. Anyone in any sense reasons from the scriptures that God wanted Adam to be disobedient are reasoning on the scriptures in error.

If Adam was created a sinner or sinful as you say, why is it that Adam and Eve wasn't driven out of Eden until after they ate from the forbidden tree. Before Adam ate from the forbidden tree Eden was his home and would continue to be home as long as he was obedient to the only True God YHWH. So obviously Adam wasn't considered sinful until after he ate from the forbidden tree, not before.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Sin and death came into existence because of disobedience to the command concerning the forbidden tree. God told Adam to not eat from the forbidden tree if he did he would die. The scriptures show we die because of this sin, Adam being disobedient to the command to not eat from the forbidden tree. God created Adam with the ability to make free moral choices of whether Adam will or will not obey the true God. Disobedience to God's command is a sin. Sin brings forth death. God didn't create Adam to be disobedient. Anyone in any sense reasons from the scriptures that God wanted Adam to be disobedient are reasoning on the scriptures in error.

If Adam was created a sinner or sinful as you say, why is it that Adam and Eve wasn't driven out of Eden until after they ate from the forbidden tree. Before Adam ate from the forbidden tree Eden was his home and would continue to be home as long as he was obedient to the only True God YHWH. So obviously Adam wasn't considered sinful until after he ate from the forbidden tree, not before.

Answer the question, please, so we can come to the knowledge of the truth.

Does sin come from sinner?

Or

Does sin come from holy?

 

[BB1956]

Answer the question, please, so we can come to the knowledge of the truth.

Does sin come from sinner?

Or

Does sin come from holy?

I answered how sin and death came and spread among humanity. You don't want to agree with it, so be it. I certainly don't agree with you that God created Adam a sinner, or sinful, because I've found nowhere in scripture that God created Adam a sinner, or sinful.
It was when God told Adam to not eat from the forbidden tree, and Adam disobeyed, and ate from the tree God said not to eat from, that sin and death came into the world of mankind.

It's obvious that God created Adam with the ability to obey him. If it was impossible for Adam to obey God, when God told Adam not to eat from the forbidden tree, then God would not have told him not to eat from the tree, if it we're impossible for him to obey. God didn't, and wouldn't tell Adam to be obedient to something that was impossible for him to obey. So God created Adam with the ability to be obedient to the true God.
Being created a sinner, or being created sinful, would mean Adam would have been created immoral, and wicked, and as I said, God would not have said a sinner or someone who was sinful was very good.

 

[Hopeful]

Before the high priest can enter the holy of holies, he needs to have his sins atoned (covered) and there are washings involved. Now, none of my two responders considered the question of a Righteous God creating an unrighteous man. This act would impugn the character of God and bring His Righteousness into question. Now the Scripture:

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev. 13:8.

Before God created the world, and Strong's defines the word 'world' as 'kosmos' which means not only the material world, but inhabitants, a lamb was slain. The Greek word 'kosmos':

from the base of <G2865> (komizo); orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitant, literal or figurative [moral]).

The Scripture states that a lamb was slain before the foundation (creation) of the world. What happen here? Who or what was the lamb? Did God create a lamb for the sole purpose of sacrificing it before He created the animal(s) in Genesis? No, I don't see that. Before God began creating animals the only lamb was the Lamb of God in eternity. THIS atonement or sacrifice allowed a Righteous God to create an unrighteous man - Adam.

I'm a sinner. I'm born again. I'm not separated from God. Paul says as much about himself in Romans 7. Was he separated from God? No, he was not. And you're forgetting the biblical definition of the word 'sin.' It means 'to miss the mark.' What mark is being referred here? The 'mark' or 'bullseye' is the glory of God. Think archery.

How can one be born of God but still be a sinner? (1 John 3:9-10)

 

[Hopeful]

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 Jn. 1:8.
Your belief contradicts Scripture.

Your interpretation of 1 John 1:8 is void of the understanding that he is addressing those who walk in darkness.
Those who walk in light, (1 John 1:5,7,9), have had ALL their sins washed away by the blood of Christ.

Here, too:
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. Rom. 7:7.
We sin because we are sinners. We are not sinners because we sin.

Paul is narrating a time in his pre-conversion life.
His conversion hung on his repentance from sin.

 

[BB1956]

Jeremiah1five said,
There is NOTHING in Scripture that Noah loved God's enemies. To do so is treasonous to his King and Lord. But Scripture does record Noah was a preacher of righteousness. But love? You're adding to the bible here, chief. He wasn't 'faultless,' either. If he was faultless he would not need grace which he found in the eyes of God. Grace is unmerited favor. If he was faultless he would not need grace. He would have merited it.[/QUOTE\]

The scriptures show Noah to be a preacher of righteousness. Noah warned the people of the flood. He told them that God was going to destroy the world of that day by a flood. If anyone had truly repented and helped Noah with the building of that Ark God would have spared those who repented. But the scriptures show no one repented. So yes, Noah did show love to his fellow man by warning them what God said he was going to do. Anyone who truly repents God will show mercy to.

At Genesis 6:9 my Bible has the word faultless there. Most Bibles have the word blameless there at that scripture. So going by how you reasoned Noah wasn't blameless either. So obviously blameless or faultless has to be taken not to mean without sin. Noah wasn't without sin but he wasn't behaving like the world of that time was behaving.

The scripture Romans 8:20, 21 doesn't prove that Adam was created a sinner or sinful. You have to reason on Romans 8:20,21 with what happened when God judged Adam after he sinned at Genesis 3:17-19.

At Revelation 13:8 it says a lamb was slain from the foundation of the world not before the foundation of the world. The scriptures show that Abel is from the foundation of the world, not Adam. (Luke 11:50, 51; Matthew 25:34; Revelation 13:8; 17:8; compare Matthew 13:35; Hebrew 9:26.) Such things relate to human life and activity, and hence “the foundation of the world” must relate to the beginning of mankind, not of the inanimate creation or the animal creation. Hebrews 4:3 shows that God’s creative works were, not started, but “finished from the founding of the world.” Since Eve was evidently the last of YHWH God's earthly creative works, the world’s founding could not precede her.

So “the founding of the world” need not be taken to mean the beginning of the creation of the material universe, nor does the expression “before the foundation of the world” (John 17:5, 24; Ephesians 1:4; 1Peter 1:20) refer to a point of time prior to the creation of the material universe. Rather, these expressions evidently relate to the time when the human race was ‘founded’ through the first human pair, Adam and Eve, who, outside of Eden, began to conceive seed that could benefit from God’s provisions for deliverance from inherited sin.(Genesis 3:20-24; 4:1, 2)

 

[jeremiah1five]

How can one be born of God but still be a sinner? (1 John 3:9-10)

Adam wasn't born he was created.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jeremiah1five said,
There is NOTHING in Scripture that Noah loved God's enemies. To do so is treasonous to his King and Lord. But Scripture does record Noah was a preacher of righteousness. But love? You're adding to the bible here, chief. He wasn't 'faultless,' either. If he was faultless he would not need grace which he found in the eyes of God. Grace is unmerited favor. If he was faultless he would not need grace. He would have merited it.[/QUOTE\]

The scriptures show Noah to be a preacher of righteousness. Noah warned the people of the flood. He told them that God was going to destroy the world of that day by a flood. If anyone had truly repented and helped Noah with the building of that Ark God would have spared those who repented. But the scriptures show no one repented. So yes, Noah did show love to his fellow man by warning them what God said he was going to do. Anyone who truly repents God will show mercy to.

At Genesis 6:9 my Bible has the word faultless there. Most Bibles have the word blameless there at that scripture. So going by how you reasoned Noah wasn't blameless either. So obviously blameless or faultless has to be taken not to mean without sin. Noah wasn't without sin but he wasn't behaving like the world of that time was behaving.

The scripture Romans 8:20, 21 doesn't prove that Adam was created a sinner or sinful. You have to reason on Romans 8:20,21 with what happened when God judged Adam after he sinned at Genesis 3:17-19.

At Revelation 13:8 it says a lamb was slain from the foundation of the world not before the foundation of the world. The scriptures show that Abel is from the foundation of the world, not Adam. (Luke 11:50, 51; Matthew 25:34; Revelation 13:8; 17:8; compare Matthew 13:35; Hebrew 9:26.) Such things relate to human life and activity, and hence “the foundation of the world” must relate to the beginning of mankind, not of the inanimate creation or the animal creation. Hebrews 4:3 shows that God’s creative works were, not started, but “finished from the founding of the world.” Since Eve was evidently the last of YHWH God's earthly creative works, the world’s founding could not precede her.

So “the founding of the world” need not be taken to mean the beginning of the creation of the material universe, nor does the expression “before the foundation of the world” (John 17:5, 24; Ephesians 1:4; 1Peter 1:20) refer to a point of time prior to the creation of the material universe. Rather, these expressions evidently relate to the time when the human race was ‘founded’ through the first human pair, Adam and Eve, who, outside of Eden, began to conceive seed that could benefit from God’s provisions for deliverance from inherited sin.(Genesis 3:20-24; 4:1, 2)

You're adding to Scripture.

There is nothing that shows Noah loved those he preached against.

He was obedient.

And to love God's enemies is treason. Christians are not commanded to love God's enemies. God does not command that.

But He does instruct us to love our brethren ONLY.

As says the Law in Leviticus 19:17-19.

Look it up.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Your interpretation of 1 John 1:8 is void of the understanding that he is addressing those who walk in darkness.
Those who walk in light, (1 John 1:5,7,9), have had ALL their sins washed away by the blood of Christ.

Paul is narrating a time in his pre-conversion life.
His conversion hung on his repentance from sin.

The Scripture, the Word of God is written to believers in Covenant with God ONLY.

Read it in that context.