Bible Study God does not select before the womb

[for_his_glory]

I would say, all babies who are “good seeds” will go to heaven when they die, whether after birth or being aborted.

This is what I have been trying to say from the beginning about not all babies will go to be with the Lord when He returns. It's like Exodus 11 with all the firstborn of the Egyptians that were babies. If they had good seed God would have spared them, but instead we see they were all killed. It's the same in 1 Samuel 15:3 as none of them, man woman and infant had good seed found in them and God said to slay them all as they came against Israel. It's only the good seed that will go to be with Christ when He returns.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

No, let's not delete it. Rather, let us discuss it as those mature in the faith. Those weak in their faith are already stumbling and Lord willing, they will find solid ground.

I am secure in my belief and have no doubt that any infant that has passed is with God. Likewise, I am secure in my faith that no child is in hell. My position is not to win an argument with you nor anyone who believes as you, which is many.

If you would afford me the lead, let us talk about Psalms 51, since that is the passage I am most familiar with.

First, what is the context of this passage? What is driving David to write this?

Can we start here, and mine the wisdom contained within Psalms 51 before ascribing it to a doctrine or theology?

Well,.. I wouldn't go as far as saying that no child is in Hell. Cause once they get to the age that they know right from wrong and can choose to except or reject Jesus,.. then they might go to Hell,.. but there's no way that infants and young children that don't know any better will go to Hell in my opinon. In the end,.. the choice is all God's.

 

[for_his_glory]

No, let's not delete it. Rather, let us discuss it as those mature in the faith. Those weak in their faith are already stumbling and Lord willing, they will find solid ground.

I am secure in my belief and have no doubt that any infant that has passed is with God. Likewise, I am secure in my faith that no child is in hell. My position is not to win an argument with you nor anyone who believes as you, which is many.

If you would afford me the lead, let us talk about Psalms 51, since that is the passage I am most familiar with.

First, what is the context of this passage? What is driving David to write this?

Can we start here, and mine the wisdom contained within Psalms 51 before ascribing it to a doctrine or theology?

I already posted this about Psalms 51, but will post it again as we discuss this chapter.

Psalms 51 is about David expressing deep sorrow for his sins after Nathan came unto him after he had gone in to Bathsheba. He was confessing to God and asking for forgiveness and guidance. Vs. 5 he knew he was born into sin, meaning born into a sin filled world and he choose to sin against God having Bathsheba's husband killed and taking her for his wife after he got her pregnant. It was God's judgement against David that his son should die. Whether the son had good seed or bad seed we do not know, but I still believe it was David's hope to see him again, 1 Samuel 12:1-23.

Let me ask you this. What about Exodus 11 and 1 Samuel 15:3. Do you believe all those infants will be caught up to Jesus when He returns?

 

[stovebolts]

Psalms 51 is about David expressing deep sorrow for his sins after Nathan came unto him after he had gone in to Bathsheba. He was confessing to God and asking for forgiveness and guidance. Vs. 5 he knew he was born into sin, meaning born into a sin filled world and he choose to sin against God having Bathsheba's husband killed and taking her for his wife after he got her pregnant. It was God's judgement against David that his son should die. Whether the son had good seed or bad seed we do not know, but I still believe it was David's hope to see him again, 1 Samuel 12:1-23.

Thank you for explaining how you view this Psalm.
To be clear, how do you think David feels about his sexual relations with Bathsheba? What can you tell me about what occurred?

 

[for_his_glory]

Thank you for explaining how you view this Psalm.
To be clear, how do you think David feels about his sexual relations with Bathsheba? What can you tell me about what occurred?

We can read the story about David, Bathsheba and her husband Uriah in 2 Samuel 11 how David saw her bathing and lusted after her and ended up laying with her and she got pregnant. David tried to cover it up that he was the father as he tried to get Uriah to come back to his house and lay with his wife. When this didn't happen he made a way for Uriah to be killed in battle. Then David took Bathsheba to be his wife so they could raise the baby together as to bring no shame to his name.

2 Samuel 12:1-25 we read how God raised up evil against David as he despised God after all God had done for him. David confesses to Nathan that he had sinned against God. Nathan than told him the Lord also put away his that he would not die. Although, because David gave cause to the enemies of God to blaspheme, the child that was born unto him and Bathsheba will die as God struck the child with sickness.

This was the time David called on God to be gracious to him as he fasted and laid all night on the ground praying for his son, but the child died. Now we turn to Psalms 51 that after Nathan came to David after he had gone in to Bathsheba to comfort her and laid with her and born him a son, David named him Solomon as the Lord loved him. Now, David confesses his transgressions before the Lord asking for God's mercy to forgive him and cleanse him from his sin. David said, Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me, meaning I was born into a sinful world with a nature to sin and therefore I did evil against the Lord.

 

[SkyWriting]

God does not select before the womb those who will spend eternity with Him or those who will be cast into the lake of fire. God is a sovereign God that in his love and patience for us would not want anyone to perish and only God knows the intents of the heart as he alone judges us, 2 Peter 3:9. God wants all of us to come to repentance, but not everyone will for the way they are raised from birth. Many babies are born into families that have rejected God and will be raised to also come against Him as their hearts are hardened. Although, a hardened heart can be changed if given proper nourishment.

Age of accountability is nowhere found in the Bible and is a preconception that only leads to speculation. Infant baptism is also unscriptural as a baby can not know faith and regeneration as this takes place at the same point in time. A baby can not be covered by the blood of Jesus until they come into the knowledge of good and evil and accept Him as Lord and Savior. Many use Ephesians 1:4, 5 to support this, but that is not what these verses are saying. These two verses are very similar to that of 2 Peter 3:9 that through Gods love he breathed his breath (spirit) into us when we first came from the womb making us a living soul and that he would want us to be holy and without blame. Staying holy without blame is through repentance and acceptance that brings us to that adoption that is in Christ Jesus thus we were made for Gods good pleasure.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Zechariah 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

A baby can not inherit the sin of the parents, but are born with a sin nature. Adams sin was imputed to every one of us as there is none that are righteous, babies included, Romans 5:12-18. Psalms 58:3 says, The wicked are estranged (turn from God) from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. Who taught a child to lie or be rebellious against their parents? It's that sin nature that causes a child to do this. Psalms 51:5 says, Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. The only thing God gave us at birth was His very breath (spirit) that made us a living soul and it's that breath that goes back to God when we die as he preserves it in judgment until the coming of the Lord, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

In the OT and NT God did specifically call out certain prophets and disciples by name as he elected them before they were even formed in the womb. This does not make God a respecter of person, it just means they were called for Gods purpose as they were the Hebrew children of promise through the seed of Abraham being of that same covenant God made with Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3. We being formed in the womb as a Gentile and given the breath (spirit) of God for us to be a living soul can now through Christ Jesus be grafted into that seed of Abraham that we to can be a part of Gods covenant promises to that of a thousand generations.

Do all babies go to be with the Lord when they die? The answer is no, John 3:13. Remember, God only gives breath (spirit), but doesn't decide who a baby is born to. Two examples of babies that have died and also will be raised from the grave to stand in Gods white throne judgment all we have to do is look at the story of the Amalekites and their children in Deuteronomy 2:24-34. God even had the babies killed in battle as they would have also grown up to come against God and his people. It’s the same as the firstborn of the Egyptians in Exodus 11. God saved His own from being killed. This was all Gods judgment against those who come out against him. Just as today those babies that die, even though they have no knowledge of good and evil yet, are also those who will be trained to come against God.

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Yes, we are each selected before the womb and the foundation of the world.
Our past and future are both already in God's memory.

Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Psalm 139:13-16
For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.

 

[JLB]

Does what you say here contradict John 5:28, 29 that happens on the last day when Christ returns?

No ma’am, it doesn’t.


Those who were contained in the heart of the earth, ascended to heaven with the Lord after He was resurrected from the dead, that is to say, His body was resurrected from the dead.


Therefore He says:
“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”
(Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) Ephesians 4:8-10


The resurrection of the dead in Christ, occurs on the last day, whereby all the dead in Christ will receive glorified, resurrection bodies.


But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23

• Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

At His coming is when the rest of the dead in Christ will receive their transformed bodies that are immortal, as well as those who are alive and remain.


Paul explains that there is a natural body and a spiritual body.


So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:42-44

• There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Corinthians 15:51-53

For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


At the last trumpet, on the last day, at His coming is when the rest of the body of Christ will receive their immortal bodies.


Jesus says it this way -

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36


again


Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Matthew 13:40-42


Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

The resurrected body will shine forth as the sun.


Daniel also says -


And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever. Daniel 12:2-3







What about those who came out of their graves when Christ was resurrected?

Let’s discuss them.




JLB

 

[JLB]

This is what I have been trying to say from the beginning about not all babies will go to be with the Lord when He returns. It's like Exodus 11 with all the firstborn of the Egyptians that were babies. If they had good seed God would have spared them, but instead we see they were all killed. It's the same in 1 Samuel 15:3 as none of them, man woman and infant had good seed found in them and God said to slay them all as they came against Israel. It's only the good seed that will go to be with Christ when He returns.

I think we should try to define what each of us mean by “good seeds” ?


We may differ in our understanding of these things.




JLB

 

[stovebolts]

for_his_glory
What do you think Davids emotional state is?

Psalm 51 King James Version (KJV)
51 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
King James Version (KJV)

 

[dianegcook]

Does what you say here contradict John 5:28, 29 that happens on the last day when Christ returns?

What you say here would contradict John 5:28, 29 that happens on the last day when Christ returns?

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Rev 19:14 are the army of angels that return with Christ as He sends them out to the four corners of the earth to gather all who are a sleep and still alive as we are then caught up to the clouds to meet Him in the air, Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

When we die it is only our breath that goes back to God who gave it that made us a living soul, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.

John 5:28 we differ on..
Dead spiritually,
Kind of like saying, I was blind but now I see...
I was dead in my sins, now I am made alive...

God's Word brings LIFE...

As in Ezek.37:1-14
The vision of dry bones.
4,Prophesy upon theses bones,....hear the word of the Lord...
14, Shall put My Spirit in you, and ye shall LIVE....

 

[dianegcook]

I also am concerned that you would say innocent children might perish..
I don't have a certain Bible verse to give, to debunk this, but when you take the scriptures from beginning to end, God is just and fair...
One needs to grow up to discern from wrong and right.
I call that accountability..
If a child didn't sin, which, sin is contrary to the law, one must know the law , thus leave them unaccountable.

 

[for_his_glory]

John 5:28 we differ on..
Dead spiritually,
Kind of like saying, I was blind but now I see...
I was dead in my sins, now I am made alive...

God's Word brings LIFE...

As in Ezek.37:1-14
The vision of dry bones.
4,Prophesy upon theses bones,....hear the word of the Lord...
14, Shall put My Spirit in you, and ye shall LIVE....

John 5:22-30 Those that are Spiritually dead are the ones who have physically died and will be resurrected to Christ judgment of damnation. These verses are speaking about Christ have equality with God in authority as God gave Him to judge those in the resurrection on the last day whether they are raised to eternal life or damnation as all will hear His voice to rise. While many were still alive they were dead in sin, but made Spiritually alive as they believed in Christ and they will be raised up to have eternal life, Ephesians 2:1-5; Colossians 3:13-15.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, we are each selected before the womb and the foundation of the world.
Our past and future are both already in God's memory.

Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Psalm 139:13-16
For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.

I believe those verses are speaking about the Prophets and the disciples of Christ who were sanctified (set apart) for God's purpose before they were ever formed in the womb that they would go out to the nations.

 

[for_his_glory]

No ma’am, it doesn’t.


Those who were contained in the heart of the earth, ascended to heaven with the Lord after He was resurrected from the dead, that is to say, His body was resurrected from the dead.


Therefore He says:
“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”
(Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) Ephesians 4:8-10


The resurrection of the dead in Christ, occurs on the last day, whereby all the dead in Christ will receive glorified, resurrection bodies.


But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23

• Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

At His coming is when the rest of the dead in Christ will receive their transformed bodies that are immortal, as well as those who are alive and remain.


Paul explains that there is a natural body and a spiritual body.


So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:42-44

• There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Corinthians 15:51-53

For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


At the last trumpet, on the last day, at His coming is when the rest of the body of Christ will receive their immortal bodies.


Jesus says it this way -

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36


again


Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Matthew 13:40-42


Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

The resurrected body will shine forth as the sun.


Daniel also says -


And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever. Daniel 12:2-3







What about those who came out of their graves when Christ was resurrected?

Let’s discuss them.




JLB

Jesus never went down to hell (lower parts of the earth) to preach as scripture says He went to preach to the spirits in prison. When Jesus laid in the tomb for three days his body was dead, but His spirit was very much alive. In 1 Peter 3:19 it says Jesus being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit went and preached to the spirits in prison. The spirits in prison that Jesus went to preach to are those angels that are reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Scripture does not say what Jesus preached to them, but some speculate that He was proclaiming to these fallen angels that Satan had no victory over His death. These angels are separate from the third Satan gathered with him as these angels bound in chains kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day, Jude 1:5-7.

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

He led captivity captive and gave gifts unto men means that those who were a slave to sin are now given the free gift of God's grace through Christ as being the fulfillment of the Temple sacrifices. The lower parts of the earth just means the grave being underground.

These angels are those found in Genesis 6:1-3 that have been bound and chained in prison ever since until the day of judgement. Jesus was making show of them openly, triumphing over them in it, Colossians 2:13-15. This means that those who come to Jesus their sin is blotted out having spoiled these angels (principalities and power) who caused men to sin and that they too will be judged and cast into the lake of fire reserved for Satan and his angels.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

 

[for_his_glory]

I think we should try to define what each of us mean by “good seeds” ?


We may differ in our understanding of these things.




JLB

I've been rethinking about what I said about all babies will not go to be with the Lord and I see where I might be wrong about making such a statement. Let's forget about good seed and bad seed as all babies have no knowledge of good and evil until they are old enough to recognize what good and evil means. They have no truth found in them yet nor can they lie because they are babies.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Psalms 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. 14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they would turn from their wicked ways, Ezekiel 33:11. God chooses all that are born to be holy without blame, but yet as we see that of the Egyptian first born in Exodus 11 that were just babies and the Amalekites babies in 1 Samuel 15:3 that had no knowledge of good and evil, yet God called for them to be killed.

The more I have been thinking about those babies since they had no knowledge of good and evil it is possible that God was sparing them from growing up and also coming against Israel to destroy God's people since this is the setting in the OT and God no longer calls for a child to be killed anymore. He could have been gathering them to Himself through physical death in order for them to have eternal life with Him as they were yet innocent of any sin as we do not inherit the sins of our parents.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

I've been rethinking about what I said about all babies will not go to be with the Lord and I see where I might be wrong about making such a statement. Let's forget about good seed and bad seed as all babies have no knowledge of good and evil until they are old enough to recognize what good and evil means. They have no truth found in them yet nor can they lie because they are babies.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Psalms 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. 14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they would turn from their wicked ways, Ezekiel 33:11. God chooses all that are born to be holy without blame, but yet as we see that of the Egyptian first born in Exodus 11 that were just babies and the Amalekites babies in 1 Samuel 15:3 that had no knowledge of good and evil, yet God called for them to be killed.

The more I have been thinking about those babies since they had no knowledge of good and evil it is possible that God was sparing them from growing up and also coming against Israel to destroy God's people since this is the setting in the OT and God no longer calls for a child to be killed anymore. He could have been gathering them to Himself through physical death in order for them to have eternal life with Him as they were yet innocent of any sin as we do not inherit the sins of our parents.

*Dramatic gasp* Did I hear that right? Did you just admit that you aren't always right? (Yes I'm pulling your leg btw. )

 

[for_his_glory]

for_his_glory
What do you think Davids emotional state is?

Psalm 51 King James Version (KJV)
51 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
King James Version (KJV)

David's emotional state was that of a guilty heart of repentance asking God's mercy to forgive him of his transgressions and asking to be made clean before the Lord again. God only wanted David to sacrifice that of acknowledging all the wrong he had pleasure in doing.

 

[for_his_glory]

*Dramatic gasp* Did I hear that right? Did you just admit that you aren't always right?

Never said I am always right as I'm not perfect and I am always opened for correction for which I have received through the Holy Spirit. This could be the whole reason why I posted this thread to see the error in it.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Never said I am always right as I'm not perfect and I am always opened for correction for which I have received through the Holy Spirit. This could be the whole reason why I posted this thread to see the error in it.

I know, like I said I was joking. Cheer up, it's almost Christmas.

 

[JLB]

Jesus never went down to hell (lower parts of the earth) to preach as scripture says He went to preach to the spirits in prison. When Jesus laid in the tomb for three days his body was dead, but His spirit was very much alive. In 1 Peter 3:19 it says Jesus being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit went and preached to the spirits in prison.

Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? Ephesians 4:9


I agree the spirits in prison refers to the angels who were disobedient in the days of Noah.


However, this may not be all that happened during those three days.


See Jonah.


Also the Psalms.



For You will not leave my soul in Sheol,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
Psalms 16:10




JLB