Bible Study God does not select before the womb

[for_his_glory]

I know, like I said I was joking. Cheer up, it's almost Christmas.

I know you were joking, it's all good. Just been doing a lot of studying the last few days on this topic I started. My mind is everywhere 2

 

[for_his_glory]

Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? Ephesians 4:9


I agree the spirits in prison refers to the angels who were disobedient in the days of Noah.


However, this may not be all that happened during those three days.


See Jonah.


Also the Psalms.



For You will not leave my soul in Sheol,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
Psalms 16:10




JLB

I'm really not going to get into this discussion as I see no relevance to the topic of this thread, If you would like to start one I will discuss it there.

 

[stovebolts]

I know you were joking, it's all good. Just been doing a lot of studying the last few days on this topic I started. My mind is everywhere 2

I put things in my back pocket when my mind goes all over the place. God reveals them at the appropriate time. I found if I don't, I misapply scripture and force it to say things it doesn't say. I speak from experience here.... Guilty as charged.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

I know you were joking, it's all good. Just been doing a lot of studying the last few days on this topic I started. My mind is everywhere 2

Lol, since I don't have any marbles, my mind is everywhere and nowhere at exactly the same time.

 

[stovebolts]

for_his_glory
Coming back to Psalms 51 as a whole, we agree that David was greatly distressed. Anyone who has lost a child understands the darkness and we get a glimmer of how David mourns when he lost his son Absolom and again, when he looses his first child with Bathsheba.

As a the anointed King, David failed miserably as called out by Nathan. Egypt, in part is about an Empire which Israel would become under King David and inherited by his son Solomon. Empires rise and fall and systemic sin starts with leadership and trickles down into the community. David has sex with a married woman, gets her pregnant and then has her righteous and innocent husband murdered. Sin always hurts the innocent and like Able, Uriah (Bathsheba's husband) was put to death unjustly. As a leader, what example does this set for the people? This, in part is why David says

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

To understand

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

we need to understand more about Davids family life and how it relates to Davids sexual act with Bathsheba.


First, Davids intent with Bathsheba was purely sexual. He wasn't concerned that she was married and his worst fear was realized when she became pregnant. Davids sexual desires we're not used to glorify God and produce children. It was selfish and self serving with no regard to the fallout that occurred.

Let's look at this verse again.
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

David is connecting his act of sexual desire with no desire for a child with his own birth. A close look at David reveals that David was rejected by his Father and his brothers.

Joseph was Jacobs favorite son, and prior to Benjamin, was the youngest. Who do we see attending the flocks? Yes, we see Jacobs older sons, Joseph's brothers. Brothers is plural and that's significant for the safety of his children. And why does Jacob mourn for Joseph? Because he is told a wild animal has killed him. Shepherding is a dangerous task, and we see that Jacob entrusted this task to his older sons.

When Samual enters Jesse home and asks for all of his sons, David is left out and Samuel has to press Jesse until Jesse admits he has another son, but not only another son, but his youngest and he is attending the flocks. What in the world is the youngest son doing attending the flocks where bear and lion is a deadly concern?

There is much more, and I encourage you and others study this on your own. Davids great grandmother was Ruth and she was a Moabite. This caused great concern per Deuteronomy 23:3 and is expressed in Davids Psalm 69:8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.

There is more here about David and his despised upbringing from his Father and Brothers.

Nitzevet, Mother of David - The bold voice of silence

He was Israel’s mightiest warrior, revered by friend and foe; yet for the first 28 years of his life he was a lowly outcast . . . The secret story behind the mysterious circumstances of King David’s birth.

www.chabad.org

It is from this, that I hear David write: Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

 

[for_his_glory]

for_his_glory
Coming back to Psalms 51 as a whole, we agree that David was greatly distressed. Anyone who has lost a child understands the darkness and we get a glimmer of how David mourns when he lost his son Absolom and again, when he looses his first child with Bathsheba.

As a the anointed King, David failed miserably as called out by Nathan. Egypt, in part is about an Empire which Israel would become under King David and inherited by his son Solomon. Empires rise and fall and systemic sin starts with leadership and trickles down into the community. David has sex with a married woman, gets her pregnant and then has her righteous and innocent husband murdered. Sin always hurts the innocent and like Able, Uriah (Bathsheba's husband) was put to death unjustly. As a leader, what example does this set for the people? This, in part is why David says

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

To understand

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

we need to understand more about Davids family life and how it relates to Davids sexual act with Bathsheba.


First, Davids intent with Bathsheba was purely sexual. He wasn't concerned that she was married and his worst fear was realized when she became pregnant. Davids sexual desires we're not used to glorify God and produce children. It was selfish and self serving with no regard to the fallout that occurred.

Let's look at this verse again.
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

David is connecting his act of sexual desire with no desire for a child with his own birth. A close look at David reveals that David was rejected by his Father and his brothers.

Joseph was Jacobs favorite son, and prior to Benjamin, was the youngest. Who do we see attending the flocks? Yes, we see Jacobs older sons, Joseph's brothers. Brothers is plural and that's significant for the safety of his children. And why does Jacob mourn for Joseph? Because he is told a wild animal has killed him. Shepherding is a dangerous task, and we see that Jacob entrusted this task to his older sons.

When Samual enters Jesse home and asks for all of his sons, David is left out and Samuel has to press Jesse until Jesse admits he has another son, but not only another son, but his youngest and he is attending the flocks. What in the world is the youngest son doing attending the flocks where bear and lion is a deadly concern?

There is much more, and I encourage you and others study this on your own. Davids great grandmother was Ruth and she was a Moabite. This caused great concern per Deuteronomy 23:3 and is expressed in Davids Psalm 69:8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.

There is more here about David and his despised upbringing from his Father and Brothers.

Nitzevet, Mother of David - The bold voice of silence

He was Israel’s mightiest warrior, revered by friend and foe; yet for the first 28 years of his life he was a lowly outcast . . . The secret story behind the mysterious circumstances of King David’s birth.

www.chabad.org

It is from this, that I hear David write: Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Thank you for this as it's been a long time since I studied David's up bringing and I was just reading Psalms 69. This does shed light on him saying " Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." It wasn't David that was born sinful, but born into a sinful family that made him an outcast.

It's like the firstborn of the Egyptians as it was because of Pharaohs stubbornness against letting the people of Israel go that caused the first born of the male Egyptians to be killed.

Exodus 1 this new king (Pharaoh) that did not know Joseph had ordered all the Hebrew midwives to kill all the male babies that were born to them, but they refused as they feared God so he gave a new order that all male babies be cast into the Nile river, assuming to be drowned. Thus we have Moses saved from the water as his mother hid him in a covered basket and after he was discovered Pharaoh's daughter had him brought to be here own. This is how Moses had favor with Pharaoh in his house.

Genesis 15:13; Exodus 1:8-14 Egypt had grown rich by enslaving the Jewish people for 400 years by that of Pharaoh's plot to take them captive, but he did not know that God had promised to curse those who cursed Israel, Genesis 12:3; Psalms 105:15. It was not God, but Pharaoh's stubbornness that caused all the first born Egyptian males to be killed as he ordered all the Hebrew male babies that were born to be killed. This was God's curse against Pharaoh just like that of 1 Samuel 15:3 where God ordered all men, women and children of Amalek to be destroyed.

 

[Knotical]

Without having actually experienced a Near Death Experience I can't say too much about them, other than it can be a tool that God uses to draw people to Him.