Thinkerprover26 said:
The ontological argument for the existence of God:
"God is something than which nothing greater can be thought.
God exists in the understanding.
It is greater to exist in reality and in the understanding than just in understanding.
Therefore, God exists in reality"
Unfortunately the inevitable objection is going to be that you cannot prove the assumption/premise/definition of your statement logically, namely: "
God is something than which nothing greater can be thought".
I have debated with atheists for a number of years, and on forums where there are almost no members who aren't atheists, and this argument would not stand in their mind. However there are arguments that make a good case for God
necessarily being a Being transcendent of thought, because to be anything less would not be God. But it is precisely that case which
must be made, and not just an unqualified claim that "
God is something than which nothing greater can be thought", because atheists won't believe you.
However, I have something that I just
know you are going to love.
A noted theologian well before our time has written extensively on this subject in defense of a logical approach to the conception of God. The idea that God can be proved by means of using logical arguement is not a new one, and a detailed theological treatise was made by
St. Anslem of Canturbery (1033-1109 A.D.) who made a very similar claim that you do in his treatise "
On the Being of God". You can read it
here or I recommend reading the
HTML version here (there are pages missing in the other link). He makes the interesting argument (as far as I could understand it anyway) that if you conceive an object in your mind then it can be anything you believe it to be, but that God
must be, he argues, a reality which the mind cannot fully conceive.
Notably St. Anslem also took your position saying (on page 257 in the book, or point 4 in the HTML):
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4. Let us notice also the point touched on above, with regard to this being which is greater than all which can be conceived, and which, it is said, can be none other than God himself. I, so far as actual knowledge of the object, either from its specific or general character, is concerned, am as little able to conceive of this being when I hear of it, or to have it in my understanding, as I am to conceive of or understand God himself: whom, indeed, for this very reason I can conceive not to exist. For I do not know that reality itself which God is, nor can I form a conjecture of that reality from some other like reality. For you yourself assert that that reality is such that there can be nothing else like it.
For, suppose that I should hear something said of a man absolutely unknown to me, of whose very existence I was unaware. Through that special or general knowledge by which I know what man is, or what men are, I could conceive of him also, according to the reality itself, which man is. And yet it would be possible, if the person who told me of him deceived me, that the man himself, of whom I conceived, did not exist ; since that reality according to which I conceived of him, though a no less indisputable fact, was not that man, but any man.
Hence, I am not able, in the way in which I should have this unreal being in concept or in understanding, to have that being of which you speak in concept or in understanding, when I hear the word God or the words, a being greater than all other beings. For I can conceive of the man according to a fact that is real and familiar to me: but of God, or a being greater than all others, I could not conceive at all, except merely according to the word. And an object can hardly or never be conceived according to the word alone.
For when it is so conceived, it is not so much the word itself (which is, indeed, a real thing ‑‑ that is, the sound of the letters and syllables) as the signification of the word, when heard, that is conceived. But it is not conceived as by one who knows what is generally signified by the word; by whom, that is, it is conceived according to a reality and in true conception alone. It is conceived as by a man who does not know the object, and conceives of it only in accordance with the movement of his mind produced by hearing the word, the mind attempting to image for itself the signification of the word that is heard. And it would be surprising if in the reality of fact it could ever attain to this.
Thus, it appears, and in no other way, this being is also in my understanding, when I hear and understand a person who says that there is a being greater than all conceivable beings. So much for the assertion that this supreme nature already is in my understanding.
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He then continues in point 5: "
But that this being must exist, not only in the understanding but also in reality, is thus proved to me:...". You should just read the whole treatise, although I admit it is a little hard to understand at points, and once when reading through it all I got lost and never finished reading it all. Also note that the section in the HTML version of the treatise is only the APPENDIX to the treatise, a mere addition to the much more lengthy body of his argument. It might be on that same website, you can perhaps search around to see if you can find the text of the whole treatise so you can read it.
At any rate, I find it tenuous (and ultimately
impossible) to prove God intellectually to someone, but this argument is about
as good as you can get for a logical argument for God. But ultimately God must be understood and reached by faith - and he made it
impossible that he may be found any other way than faith in Christ.
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"Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." (1 Corinthians 1:21-21)
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God Bless,
~Josh
