Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

[WIP]

Got you! But where Does Jesus command water baptism in water?

Matthew 28:19

 

[Corinth77777]

Not the point that water wasn't or couldn't have been used...point is the exercise of faith..

You make so much of it that it more sounds like a law then what is done out of God's love for us.

Have faith that baptism does what it was intended to do.
It remits past sin. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)
It is the means of the destruction of the old man. (Rom 6:6)
It is the circumcision done without hands that puts of the body of the sins of the flesh. (Col 2:11-13)
Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, is the means of our rebirth. (Col 2:13)

Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins is the "means to an end".
That "end", is salvation on the day of judgement.
Without faith, and repentance from sin, it is just a swim.

Im not going to go look at all your scriptures that you put your interpretation on. If you want to discuss them you type them out. Seeing we both know we don't agree.

As stated in earlier post-If one does what baptism symbolizes, then just as circumcision was counted unto those who were witout the law that did the law, then wouldn't what happens at water baptism for many in that day, be counted unto those who die daily and have life with God. Now this is not for you to answer because you are not God. It's a Rhetorical question.

As quoted to you earlier in Romans 14
"Who are you to pass judgment on another’s servant? Before his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand."

We also saw that the Gentile received the Holy Spirit before water baptism. They were saved, they were dead in sin and came alive to God.

Its already been expressed that its impossible to please God without faith.

And it has already been shown as in the analogy- it is not the gun that kills but the one who uses the gun....

God can use water to deliver if He wants to. But its God who saves.

Faith work in connection to Love...

 

[Corinth77777]

Matthew 28:19

Does it say water?

 

[WIP]

Here's the thing I have an issue with...rather one believes God instructed water Baptism or not.

If You did it and nothing happened to you then maybe one needs more knowledge on it.
God is real, and Real life comes from God.
My issue is in accepting everything people say to us without backing it up with scripture in correct context...

In many of the denominations people accept the minister's teaching without looking to see if what is said is true. Hence, as one can grow up in a family where a man has 8 wives. Children grow up never seeing out from how they were raised. As a matter of fact it's the norm to them. Does a conscience convict one without the knowledge of any other known family?

That's why my first question was where does He instruct water Baptism.

Your statement is like one who says its better to believe there is a God then not a God. But doesn't know why they should ....wish I had a better example. But in the end we all are growing in knowledge and understanding.

I would say that some things we take on faith..but even having faith knowledge seems to be. Sometimes it's the correct knowledge and sometimes it's not. Thats why we should be like those Bereans.

I understand. I have already provided the Scripture you asked for regarding where baptism is commanded. But, even if it wasn't, when Jesus went to John who was baptizing, He demanded it for Himself as well (Matthew, chapter 3) even though He was the Messiah, the Christ. If I claim the title Christian, I am declaring that I follow Christ and ergo, should I not then also be baptized as He was?

 

[WIP]

Does it say water?

Are you going to split hairs with God?

 

[Corinth77777]

I understand. I have already provided the Scripture you asked for regarding where baptism is commanded. But, even if it wasn't, when Jesus went to John who was baptizing, He demanded it for Himself (Matthew, chapter 3) even though He was the Messiah, the Christ. If I claim the title Christian, I am declaring that I follow Christ and ergo, should I not then also be baptized as He was?

I asked...did He tell them to baptize them in water..it's a yes or no

 

[Corinth77777]

Are you going to split hairs with God?

Are you?

 

[Corinth77777]

I understand. I have already provided the Scripture you asked for regarding where baptism is commanded. But, even if it wasn't, when Jesus went to John who was baptizing, He demanded it for Himself as well (Matthew, chapter 3) even though He was the Messiah, the Christ. If I claim the title Christian, I am declaring that I follow Christ and ergo, should I not then also be baptized as He was?

Let every man be convinced in his own heart

 

[WIP]

Are you?

So, share what Jesus was commanding.

 

[Free]

I asked...did He tell them to baptize them in water..it's a yes or no

Yes, he did. That is what baptism means and precisely why the Apostles proceeded to baptize new believers in water. If Jesus didn't mean that, then all the somehow Apostles got it wrong. Any believer who doesn't get baptized, provided they have opportunity, is disobeying Christ.

 

[WIP]

Bottom line as far as I am concerned....
Jesus commanded it and required it for Himself and that's enough for me. If Jesus commanded me to levitate, walk on water, or give up everything for Him as He did the rich young ruler (Luke 18:18-23), I would hope that I would follow His command and not walk away sad. I don't need to debate with Him about it

 

[Corinth77777]

Yes, he did. That is what baptism means and precisely why the Apostles proceeded to baptize new believers in water. If Jesus didn't mean that, then all the somehow Apostles got it wrong. Any believer who doesn't get baptized, provided they have opportunity, is disobeying Christ.

No Water Baptism in Matthew 28:19-20

The phrase baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is another way of saying teaching them to observe all I have commanded.

redeeminggod.com

 

[Free]

No Water Baptism in Matthew 28:19-20

The phrase baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is another way of saying teaching them to observe all I have commanded.

redeeminggod.com

So, what is meant by baptism for new believers as it is used throughout the NT? What about those times the NT implicitly and explicitly talks about baptism in water? If Jesus didn't command it, then why did the Apostles engage in it?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

God exempts all who have not committed an offense contrary to His will.

None of that in the bible.

No baby has offended God.

All have sinned, which has offended God, Rom. 5:12.

I don't know that they are.

You don't know or you deny?

Those are sins babies commit ?

They don't commit, they inherit.

As water baptism is for the remission of past sins, baby baptism is not necessary.

Then water baptism is not necessary. Again, you can't promote baptism for salvation and denounce baby baptism at the same time.

Who says they don't ?

Who says they do? I know Jesus said ye must be born again, if everyone is born with a divine nature already, why must they be born again?

I had to add it, to separate sinners from nonsinners.
Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is for the remission of a sinner's past sins.
Babies have committed no past sins.

All are sinners in the eyes of God except Jesus. You're making things up contrary to the teaching of the bible.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Belief is not Salvation. Some in my family say they believe in God, but most certainly do not show the Fruit of the Spirit at all. So I say again belief is not Salvation.

That's work-based false religion. Salvation is a free gift which you can't buy, earn, steal, inherit or transfer. Also, belief doesn't just mean believing the existence of a Creator God, it goes much far beyond the intellectual level, it's a worldview that dominates your thinking patterns, that guides the way you see yourself and others, and you submit to the fate that God has determined for you, trust God with all you have, devote to the cause God has chosen for you, etc.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Baptism is not a dunking or a bath
It is a complete ritual
Proper intention:
Proper form: the words
Proper matter: pure water
Thks

According to what standard operating procedure? What is "proper" according to the bible? How do you know whether the intention is pure? What words are "proper"? And how do you even know the water is pure without any contanmination? You see, when I delve into these details, defenders and promoters of baptismal salvation have no answer, all they can do is hiding behind Rom. 6:3 and Acts. 2:38, spewing out empty platitudes without knowing what they're talking about.

 

[My Rock]

Does it say water?

I doesn't need to. Jesus is commanding men to baptize. The only thing men can baptize with is water. Only Jesus can baptizes with the Holy Ghost.

Both water baptism and the Holy Spirit are essential components of salvation. They are not separate experiences but rather two aspects of the same spiritual rebirth. A person cannot be truly saved without both.

John 3:5: "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

 

[Hopeful 2]

Im not going to go look at all your scriptures that you put your interpretation on. If you want to discuss them you type them out. Seeing we both know we don't agree.

Your loss.

As stated in earlier post-If one does what baptism symbolizes,

Why do a symbolism when you can do the real thing ?

then just as circumcision was counted unto those who were witout the law that did the law, then wouldn't what happens at water baptism for many in that day, be counted unto those who die daily and have life with God. Now this is not for you to answer because you are not God. It's a Rhetorical question.

Those who are not baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins don't have a life with God.
They still carry their past sins with them.

As quoted to you earlier in Romans 14
"Who are you to pass judgment on another’s servant? Before his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand."

If one, or more, of the Lord's disciples commands something, only a non-disciple would fight against it.

We also saw that the Gentile received the Holy Spirit before water baptism.

Yes, on one occasion, to show that God also accepted the repentance of Gentiles.

They were saved, they were dead in sin and came alive to God.

Their salvation still depended on enduring faithfully until the end

Its already been expressed that its impossible to please God without faith.

Where is your faith in the effects of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins ?

And it has already been shown as in the analogy- it is not the gun that kills but the one who uses the gun....
God can use water to deliver if He wants to. But its God who saves.

God is using water for the remission of past sins, and the circumcision done without hands, and the destruction of the old man.

Faith work in connection to Love...

Use your faith to permanently turn from sin and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.

 

[Hopeful 2]

None of that in the bible.

Show me from the bible, where God destroyed an innocent man.

All have sinned, which has offended God, Rom. 5:12.

You are correct...all who have offended God have sinned.
Jesus didn't sin.
Enoch didn't sin, and neither did Elijah.
I'll bet that John the Baptist didn't sin either.
And no baby has ever committed any sin.

You don't know or you deny?

I don't know how haters think.

They don't commit, they inherit.

That is not scriptural.
It is written..."The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." (Ezek 18:20)

Then water baptism is not necessary. Again, you can't promote baptism for salvation and denounce baby baptism at the same time.

Baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sins is not necessary for a non-sinner.

Who says they do?

I'll say it !

I know Jesus said ye must be born again, if everyone is born with a divine nature already, why must they be born again?

Because sinning wrecks the connection we once had with God before we sinned.

All are sinners in the eyes of God except Jesus. You're making things up contrary to the teaching of the bible.

Aren't you glad the a real repentance from sin makes us non-sinners ? (2 Cor 7:10)
Aren't you glad that the destruction of the old man is followed by our being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life ? (Rom 6:4,6)
Aren't you glad that our rebirth from God's seed prevents the bearing of devilish fruit ? (1 John 3:9)
I am.

 

[Corinth77777]

I doesn't need to. Jesus is commanding men to baptize. The only thing men can baptize with is water. Only Jesus can baptizes with the Holy Ghost.

Both water baptism and the Holy Spirit are essential components of salvation. They are not separate experiences but rather two aspects of the same spiritual rebirth. A person cannot be truly saved without both.

John 3:5: "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Opinion