Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

[Hopeful 2]

Jesus taught not to judge: "Judge not, that you may not be judged." (Matt. 7:1)

And the next verse ?..."For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."
Judge away !

Of course not, He judges based on each one's track record, not creed, ethnicity, gender or class:

Then we agree that God is no respector of persons, and that it is His way or the highway.
He does paint all with the same brush.

But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, (Rom. 2:5-8)

Let the sinners beware !

Jesus is not half man half God, he's FULLY man and FULLY God, He was born of the Holy Spirit. He is manifested as the second person of the trinity, the second Adam, not the first. As long as he was sinless, he couldn't be descended from the first Adam, for through the first Adam sin entered the world.
“Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 1:20)

Kind of a side track, but OK.

Neither do I know how your prideful, tendentuous and incorrigible mind thinks.

Are you not one of those who keeps saying nobody can live without sinning ?
Aren't you including yourself in that group ?

The bible doesn't contradict itself. You could've just admitted that your pride supercedes God's truth.

Ezekiel 18:20 supersedes your Exodus scripture.

No other baby was born of the Holy Spirit like Jesus.

Nobody is a sinner until they commit a sin.

Then drop it and get lost.

I too can call your doctrine false, but I am willing to let you explain it.

Yes, but a newborn baby is BORN, not reborn.

Everyone who has been reborn of God's seed has the divine nature.

How can you "return" when you've never left your sin of pride in the first place?

You will need to supply at least one instance of me taking God's glory for what He has done in and to me to validate your false accusation.

 

[My Rock]

I believe the same thing, but He was tempted by the devil more than once.

If we have been REborn, it wasn't from a human father or mother.

If one has ceases from sin, the habit is over.

Yes it does, regarding behavior.
Just as apple seeds cannot ever bring forth the fruit of a watermelon, neither can God's seed ever bring forth liars. thieves, or adulterers.

Those born of God are equipt to resist every temptation.
Here is some good news for you..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)

Amen to that !

No arguments here. Wonderfully stated.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

And the next verse ?..."For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."
Judge away !

The right to judge belongs to God alone.

"Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things" (Rom. 2:1-2)

Then we agree that God is no respector of persons, and that it is His way or the highway.
He does paint all with the same brush.

No he doesn't, he judges each individual meritocratically, and for babies, each baby individually. You don't seem to understand what "painting all with the same brush" means. If you do agree that God is "no respector of persons", then why do you make him a respector of a particular age group?

Let the sinners beware !

Then beware and repent.

Kind of a side track, but OK.

Jesus did NOT inherit the original sin of Adam. He died for it.

Are you not one of those who keeps saying nobody can live without sinning ?
Aren't you including yourself in that group ?

No, but nobody lives in a sinless world, and nobody is immune to sinning, for sin always leads to mortal death, and nobody can live a mortal life forever.

Ezekiel 18:20 supersedes your Exodus scripture.

Scripture does not contradict itself, you do.

Nobody is a sinner until they commit a sin.

All are sinners fallen short of God's grace.

I too can call your doctrine false, but I am willing to let you explain it.

"Drop it and get lost" is a friendly suggestion, not a doctrine.

Everyone who has been reborn of God's seed has the divine nature.

Where in the bible says all babies are of "God's seed" and, automatically, with a divine nature?

You will need to supply at least one instance of me taking God's glory for what He has done in and to me to validate your false accusation.

You reject the biblical fact that we're all sinners born with a sinful nature in need of God's salvation through Jesus, you preach the false doctrine of baptismal salvation, you defend it with other heresies contrary to what the bible teaches, and you cling to your pride with an argumentative and contemptuous attitude.

And by the way, you have no right to accuse me of making false accusation, for it is the nineth commandment that "you shall not bear false witness against your neighbor", and you disregard the ten commandment with your statement, "Ezekiel 18:20 supersedes your Exodus scripture." I don't have my own Exodus scripture, God does. He wrote his holy commandments on a stone tablet with his own finger.

 

[hawkman]

TOS 1.2 Those who identify themselves as Christians will be held accountable to conduct themselves as such. If they are truly governed by the Holy Spirit, they will not continually engage in goading, mocking, insulting, trolling, berating or inciting other members to anger and resentment. They will post in a Spirit of kindness and respect, even if there are doctrinal disagreements, and be quick to reconcile if differences of opinion should get heated.

 

[Randy]

I agree with that, if by "receive" you mean accept as true.

I beleive that, but the calling on the name of the Lord is done at baptism "in His name".

Confess with your "mouth" Jesus is Lord is what I read. Believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead is what I read.

You will need to define what you mean by "receive".
I was baptized into Christ. (Rom 6:3)
I have put on Christ, by that same baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (Gal 3:27)

I would state its by prayer but ALL those the Father gives Him will go to Him. Those who listen and learn from the Father go to Him. You think Jesus can't forgive those who call on Him via prayer unless they go get baptized in water first? I believe He will and can. He accepts all those the Father has given Him as its HIs Fathers will to raise them up on the last day.

Their sin will remain until they are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of said sins. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)
Why would a believer refuse to obey the Lord's admonishment regarding baptism ?
Mark 16:16..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;..."

He who doesn't believe is condemned. Jesus stated those who live by believing in Him will never die. I stated I believe those who believe in Him and are baptized will be saved as well as all those who believe in Him and call on Him will be saved. It's clear to me He is received by Faith in both statements. Without faith then one can't receive Him. And it's in knowing Him and the Father that is eternal life.

 

[donadams]

Then why were the Samaritans not initiated into that covenant when they were baptized in Jesus's name? This one needle prick busts the whole balloon of your baptismal salvation doctrine.

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. (Acts 8:14-17)

Who says they were not

 

[My Rock]

You reject the biblical fact that we're all sinners born with a sinful nature in need of God's salvation through Jesus, you preach the false doctrine of baptismal salvation

My dear Christian Friends, let us address the erroneous claim that Baptismal Salvation is a false doctrine. This assertion is a grave misunderstanding of the sacred ordinance of baptism.

Baptism is not merely a symbolic act; it is a profound spiritual experience that signifies our immersion into the life of Christ. When we are baptized, we are not simply cleansed from our sins, but we are also spiritually reborn. The water symbolizes the cleansing of our old nature, while the Spirit symbolizes the new life we receive.

The Bible clearly teaches that salvation is a gift from God, not something we can earn through our own efforts. However, this gift must be received and embraced. Baptism is a tangible expression of our faith and our commitment to follow Christ. It is a necessary step on the path to salvation, but it is not the sole condition.

Let us remember the words of Jesus: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mark 16:16). This verse indicates that both faith and baptism are essential components of salvation. While faith is the foundation, baptism is the visible manifestation of our inner transformation. (You absolutely cannot take baptism away from this verse, bible warns about taking away from or adding to the word of God.)

Deuteronomy 4:2: "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye take ought away from it; that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you."

Proverbs 30:5-6: "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not to his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."

Revelation 22:18-19: "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." This passage emphasizes the importance of preserving the integrity and authority of God's written revelation. It serves as a warning against any attempt to alter, diminish, or supplement the divine message contained in the Scriptures.

The underlying principle is that God's Word is complete and sufficient for salvation and spiritual growth. Any addition to or subtraction from the Bible would distort its meaning and compromise its effectiveness. God's intention is that His people rely solely on His inspired Word for guidance, instruction, and faith.

Therefore, let us not be deceived by those who would undermine the importance of baptism. It is a sacred ordinance that has been practiced by the Church for centuries. Let us embrace it with gratitude and joy, knowing that it is a vital step on our journey towards eternal life.

 

[JLB]

No arguments here. Wonderfully stated.

Do you understand the point he is making?


He believes that this physical body was born again at water baptism and is completely sinless.

Therefore he believes that is a person does sin he was never really saved.

He doesn’t believe what Jesus taught about a brother who sins.


Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17


Even though it’s Jesus teaching His New Testament disciples and plainly refers to the Church, he tries to explain this teaching away as being Old Testament law.


He also denies that John teaches Christians’s to confess their sins and be cleansed.

• If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10


He claims this is not for Christians for for the unregenerate; for unbelievers to become Christians even though we see John saying “we” “our” “us” which John includes himself.

Just a heads up.


Many people here on the forum have tried to reason with him over the years to no avail.

 

[hawkman]

After 608 posts we will let this thread rest a while .