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God No One Has Seen At Any Time

Greetings again follower,
"for your eyes only" refers to not on open forum/ so YHWH Willing, in His Abundant Grace and His Perfect Wisdom Guiding us we will be in touch.
I do not know why you cannot discuss most aspects of this subject here. Later today I will possibly add a few thoughts on how the various Translations have rendered the Hebrew Name of God YHWH, say, starting with the KJV "LORD" and "GOD", Strongs' #3068, 3069. I suggest that very few are even conscious of this much information, and why there are two different Strongs' numbers for YHWH. I like to start with the KJV and then compare a few others.

I have read your private message on this subject, but find it both confusing, obscure and not relevant. I do not see the need to answer this private "secretive" message. God's Name has been revealed and we should learn what He is teaching us by this Revelation of His Character and Purpose.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
The word "Christ" isn't Jesus' name. It refers to an anointing that was also present in Old Testament times. This is why Jesus is called the Messiah. Someone who is mashiach has the messiah anointing upon them such as in the case of God's prophets according to 1 Chronicles 16:22.

The Spirit of Christ, The Messiah, The Son Of God, was The Spirit in the prophets saying thus saith the LORD.


The Son Jesus Christ, before He became flesh, created the heavens and the earth, according to the will of God the Father, as it is written... in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:10


This is a direct quote from Zechariah -

The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:1,10




JLB
 
The Spirit of Christ, The Messiah, The Son Of God, was The Spirit in the prophets saying thus saith the LORD.
Christ is an anointing, Jesus is a person.

The Son Jesus Christ, before He became flesh, created the heavens and the earth, according to the will of God the Father, as it is written... in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:10
That isn't what Hebrews 1:10 says. I had just looked at the verse a few moments ago and it's quoted Psalm 102. It's about the Father, YHWH.

This is a direct quote from Zechariah -

The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:1,10




JLB
The RSV is the correct version of this. Jesus the man isn't God who they pierced. Compare this to Isaiah 53:10-12 where the one who was crucified isn't the LORD YHWH.

Zechariah 12:10
10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of compassion and supplication, so that, when they look on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a first-born.
 
Christ is an anointing, Jesus is a person.

This may come as a shock to you, but Jesus Christ is a person; The Son of God.

His Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.
  • Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. Romans 8:9-10


The Spirit of Christ was in the old testament prophets proclaiming the suffering He would endure.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11
 
That isn't what Hebrews 1:10 says. I had just looked at the verse a few moments ago and it's quoted Psalm 102. It's about the Father, YHWH.

I quoted Hebrews 1:8-10.

Basically you are saying Hebrews 1:10 doesn't say what it says?

Again, Here is Hebrews 1:8-10


But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:8-10

  • “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

It was the Son who laid the foundations of the earth, as well as ... the heavens are the work of Your hands.

The Son created the heavens and the earth. This is stated elsewhere by Paul -

  • For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:15-17


So far all you have done is deny what the scriptures say. That is not a very good theology.




JLB
 
The Spirit of Christ was in the old testament prophets proclaiming the suffering He would endure.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11

Pneuma
Breath
also works
 
I quoted Hebrews 1:8-10.

Basically you are saying Hebrews 1:10 doesn't say what it says?

Again, Here is Hebrews 1:8-10


But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:8-10
Hebrews 1:8-10 doesn't say what you said it does. Hebrews 1:8 is quoted from Psalm 45:6 where the human king with a king isn't Lord God Almighty. Perhaps they are a god in the regards to high status and power, but not the God. When it's applied to Jesus it doesn't transfer that Jesus is being called God. It's a bad translation with assumptions and no critical thinking behind it.

Hebrews 1:9 is about God anointing him above his companions. That already demonstrates inequality with God.

Since verse 10 begins with "And" then it is a conjoined to verse 10. Therefore, the LORD of Hebrews 1:10 is the God who anointed the god in verse 9. The God who anointed the Son is the Father. Therefore the Father is the Creator like Matt 11:25 and Acts 17:24 confirm.

  • “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

It was the Son who laid the foundations of the earth, as well as ... the heavens are the work of Your hands.
But look how verse 10 begins with and. That refers back to the previously mentioned God doing the anointing in verse 9.

The Son created the heavens and the earth. This is stated elsewhere by Paul -

  • For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:15-17
“In the beginning the image of the invisible God created the heavens and the earth” isn’t a Biblical doctrine.

The Sin being the “image” of God means he isn’t God. We don’t worship or pray to images do we?
So far all you have done is deny what the scriptures say. That is not a very good theology.




JLB
It would seem that’s exactly what you’re doing.
 
This may come as a shock to you, but Jesus Christ is a person; The Son of God.
No shock and I believe that.
His Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.
  • Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. Romans 8:9-10
The Spirit of Christ isn’t the Spirit of God which is why they’re named differently. Christ means an anointing but the Spirit of God is an indwelling presence of literally God.

The Spirit of Christ was in the old testament prophets proclaiming the suffering He would endure.
Yes that’s true we talked about how prophets were anointed with the spirit of the messiah without being God.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11
It refers to an anointing that was also present in Old Testament times. This is why Jesus is called the Messiah. Someone who is mashiach has the messiah anointing upon them such as in the case of God's prophets according to 1 Chronicles 16:22.

The word “who” isn’t in 1 Peter 10-11, which may shock you. The correct version of this verse is in the RSV as such.

1 Peter 1
10 The prophets who prophesied of the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired about this salvation; 11 they inquired what person or time was indicated by the Spirit of Christ within them when predicting the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glory.
 

Pneuma
Breath
also works

Your post makes no sense.

You posted some commentary with no actual scripture.

You make no point.

The Spirit of Christ is the same in the Old Testament as He is in the New Testament.

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Hebrews 13:8

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11


But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Romans 8:9

The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God.



JLB
 
Hebrews 1:8-10 doesn't say what you said it does.


I plainly quoted the scripture -

Who is saying this about the SON?

  • “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness, Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:8-10
 
The Spirit of Christ isn’t the Spirit of God which is why they’re named differently.

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Romans 8:9

The same Spirit of Christ that dwells in us, also dwelled in the prophets of the Old Testament.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11

For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior... Isaiah 43:3



What is the name of your Savior?
 
I really don't get it! There are MANY verses in both the Old and New Testaments, that are VERY CLEAR, that Jesus Christ in the Eternal Divine Nature, or Godhead, is, from all eternity, 100% coequal with God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit.

We have Isaiah 9:6, where Jesus Christ is "The Mighty God", and in 10:21, the Father is "The Mighty God". In both places, the Hebrew is the exact same, "’êl Gibbôr", and does not mean anything less when used for Jesus, other than for ones theology!

We have in Genesis 1:26, where God is in the PLURAL "WE", "OUR", which is NOT God the Father speaking with "angels", as some try to argue, because there is not ONE verse in the entire Bible, that says humans are Created in the "image of angels"! or anyone else. Genesis 1:1, and in many places, God is not “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah”, which are in the masculine SINGULAR, but, “˒ĕlōhı̂m”,which is the masculine PLURAL. I have shown at great length from the Hebrew uses of these words, that the plural does not ever mean "plural of Majesties", which is seen in the singular! It is clearly PLURAL OF PERSONS!

We then have Psalm 110:1, where the Hebrew has "YHWH" speaking with "’Aḏōn". Some has wrongly used this verse to show that Jesus Christ, Who is "’Aḏōn" here, is not Almighty God, and lesser than "YHWH". This is not the case, as there are many places in the Bible, where "’Aḏōn" is indeed used for Almighty God, eg, Exodus 23:17, Exodus 34:23,Deuteronomy 10:17, Joshua 3:11, 13, Psalm 8:1, etc, etc. In fact, "The Lord at Your Right Hand", in Psalm 110:5, is in the Hebrew, “’Aḏōnāy”, Who is called "’Aḏōn" in verse 1. In about 20 Jewish Hebrew manuscripts, instead of “’Aḏōnāy”, it reads, "YHWH! This shows that there are TWO distinct Persons Who are YHWH!

In Isaiah 48:16, we have the Speaker Who is clearly YHWH, Who says that ANOTHER PERSON, “Adonay Yahweh”, is to Send Himself and the Spirit. The context is clear that the Speaker is not Isaiah, or any human, as He Speaks of Creation and Eternity as belonging to Him!

Zechariah 2:6-11, we have the Speaker Who is YHWH, Who says that ANOTHER PERSON, Who is also YHWH, "Sends" Him!

“Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north,’ says Yahweh; ‘for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the sky,’ says Yahweh. ‘Come, Zion! Escape, you who dwell with the daughter of Babylon.’ For Yahweh of Armies says: ‘For Honor He has sent Me to the nations which plundered you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. For, behold, I will shake My hand over them, and they will be a plunder to those who served them; and you will know that Yahweh of Armies has sent Me. Sing and rejoice, daughter of Zion; for, behold, I Come, and I will dwell within you,’ says Yahweh. Many nations shall join themselves to Yahweh in that day, and shall be My people; and I will dwell among you, and you shall know that Yahweh of Armies has sent Me to you

The One Who SENDS, is note the same Person as the One Who is SENT. Both are clearly YHWH!

John 1:1 is very clear, when read in context, and with 1 John 1:1-3, that "The Word", is the PERSON, The Lord Jesus Christ. He is said to exist from ETERNITY, as the Father IS, and is in Eternal Fellowship WITH God the Father. "The Word" is also GOD, in exactly the same way the Father is GOD.

John 1:18, in the oldest and best textual evidence, as even attested by some of those who denied that Jesus Christ is GOD, reads as Written by the Apostle John, "God [the Father] no one has ever seen, The Unique God [Jesus Christ] is Eternally in Fellowship with the Father..." TWO distinct Person, who are EQUALLY ALMIGHTY GOD!

Titus 2:13, is also very clear, that Jesus Christ is "The Great God and Saviour", which is what the Greek grammar actually says. This is even admitted in a note by the Greek scholar, Dr George Winer, who was a Unitarian

"In the above remarks it was not my intention to deny that, in point of grammar, Σωτηρoς μωv (our Saviour) may be regarded as a second predicate, jointly dependent on the article τoυ (the); but the dogmatic conviction derived from Paul's writings that this apostle cannot have called Christ the great God induced me to show that there is no grammatical obstacle to our taking the clause και Σωτ...Χριστoυ (from,'and to Christ') by itself as referring to a second subject" (A Treatise on the Grammar of New Testament Greek, p.162. 1877 edition. - words in brackets are mine)

Note, Winer says that the Greek grammar says that Jesus Christ is called "Great God and Saviour", but his THEOLOGY did not allow this!

In John 20:28, Thomas declares that The Risen Jesus Christ, is, " Ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου", which is, "my Lord and my God". Not "a god"!

In Hebrews 1:8, we have God the Father address Jesus Christ, and says, “ο θρονος σου ο θεος”, which is, "Your Throne O God". Again, for theological purposes alone, some has tried to make this, "God is Your Throne", etc. However, it is clear, as in John 20:28, that we have the where the nominative is used for the vocative, in direct address.
Dr George Winer, also admits that in Hebrews 1:8, the vocative is to be understood. “The nominative (with the article) is sometimes used in an address, particularly in calling or commanding, thus taking the place of the vocative…H. i.8” (A Treatise on the Grammar of New Testament Greek, p.227). Another Unitarian, Dr George Noyes, reads in his New Testament: “but of the Son: ‘Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever”.

We also have in the Gospels, Matthew 3:3; Mark 1:2-3, Luke 3:4-5; John 1:23; "For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying: "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the LORD; Make His paths straight"

This is taken from Isaiah 40:3, which reads: “The voice of him that cries in the wilderness, Prepare ye the Way of YHWH, make straight in the desert a Highway for our God”

Clearly Jesus Christ is YHWH!

We also read in 1 Corinthians 10:9, in the best textual evidence, "“nor let us test the Christ, as some of them also tested ,and were destroyed by serpents”. In Numbers 21:6, we read, “So YHWH sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and many of the people of Israel died”

Again, Jesus Christ is YHWH

In the Book of Revelation, there are at least three references where Jesus says of Himself, that He is “THE FIRST AND THE LAST”:

Revelation 1:17-18

“When I saw him, I fell at his feet like a dead man. He laid his right hand on me and said, “Don’t be afraid. I am the First and the Last, and the Living One. I was dead, but look—I am alive forever and ever, and I hold the keys of death and Hades”

Revelation 2:8

“Write to the angel of the church in Smyrna: “The First and the Last, the One who was dead and came to life, says”

Revelation 22:13

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End”

The words, “egō eimi ho prōtos kai ho eschatos”, mean that Jesus Christ is The Eternal God. The Greek scholar, Dr Joseph Thayer, who was a Unitarian, and denied that Jesus Christ is God, says this of this phrase in his Greek Lexicon

“absolutely (i. e. without a noun) and substantively; α. with the article: ὁ πρῶτος καί ὁ ἔσχατος, i. e. the eternal One, Rev. 1:17; Rev. 2:8; Rev. 22:13”

THE ETERNAL ONE, which can only be used for YHWH.

In the Greek Old Testament, known as the Septuagint (LXX), translated by Jewish scholars over 100 years before the Birth of Jesus Christ, Exodus 3:14, reads:

“egō eimi ho ōn”, literally, “I am The Eternal One”. The Greek verb “ōn”, meaning, “timeless, continuance present”.

What Jesus Christ says of Himself in the Book of Revelation, is also said of YHWH in the Prophet Isaiah.

Isaiah 41:4

“Who has performed and done this, calling the generations from the beginning? I, Yahweh, am the first, and with the last—I am He.”

Isaiah 44:6

“This is what Yahweh, the King of Israel and its Redeemer, Yahweh of Hosts, says: I am the first and I am the last. There is no God but Me

Isaiah 48:12

“Listen to Me, Jacob, and Israel, the one called by Me: I am He; I am the first, I am also the last

HOW can anyone ever doubt that The Holy Bible Teaches that Jesus Christ is YHWH, The Great I AM, The Eternal God?
 
I plainly quoted the scripture -

Who is saying this about the SON?

  • “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness, Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:8-10
Yes, I read what you wrote, but Hebrews 1:8 isn't about Jesus being God no matter the frequency it's quoted. Jesus is a god with a little g in this context because Hebrews 1:8 is quoted from Psalm 45:6 where the person who was being called God isn't God. Sometimes translators get ahead of themselves and make guesses about what they think the capitalization of something should be, often blinded by bias or motive, and then uppercase a word like "god" when it doesn't fit the local and remote context.

So I understand why you believe what you do, but as I already showed above the way Psalm 45 reads is not about God Himself. It's about a human king with a queen. For starters, God isn't a human and neither God nor Jesus have a queen.

Since that's true, Hebrews 1:10 isn't about a human laying the foundation of the earth or making the heavens. Fortunately, Hebrews 1:10 is also quoted from Psalm 102:25-27 so we can cross refence this. The one in Psalm 102 who made everything is YHWH. Furthermore,. Isaiah 44:24 says YHWH created the heavens alone. The New Testament says the Father is the creator, but I find the best examples are Matt 11:25 and Acts 17:24 that single Him out as the Lord of heaven and earth, God, and the Creator.
 
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I really don't get it! There are MANY verses in both the Old and New Testaments, that are VERY CLEAR, that Jesus Christ in the Eternal Divine Nature, or Godhead, is, from all eternity, 100% coequal with God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit.

We have Isaiah 9:6, where Jesus Christ is "The Mighty God", and in 10:21, the Father is "The Mighty God". In both places, the Hebrew is the exact same, "’êl Gibbôr", and does not mean anything less when used for Jesus, other than for ones theology!

We have in Genesis 1:26, where God is in the PLURAL "WE", "OUR", which is NOT God the Father speaking with "angels", as some try to argue, because there is not ONE verse in the entire Bible, that says humans are Created in the "image of angels"! or anyone else. Genesis 1:1, and in many places, God is not “˒ēl”, or “˒ĕlōah”, which are in the masculine SINGULAR, but, “˒ĕlōhı̂m”,which is the masculine PLURAL. I have shown at great length from the Hebrew uses of these words, that the plural does not ever mean "plural of Majesties", which is seen in the singular! It is clearly PLURAL OF PERSONS!

We then have Psalm 110:1, where the Hebrew has "YHWH" speaking with "’Aḏōn". Some has wrongly used this verse to show that Jesus Christ, Who is "’Aḏōn" here, is not Almighty God, and lesser than "YHWH". This is not the case, as there are many places in the Bible, where "’Aḏōn" is indeed used for Almighty God, eg, Exodus 23:17, Exodus 34:23,Deuteronomy 10:17, Joshua 3:11, 13, Psalm 8:1, etc, etc. In fact, "The Lord at Your Right Hand", in Psalm 110:5, is in the Hebrew, “’Aḏōnāy”, Who is called "’Aḏōn" in verse 1. In about 20 Jewish Hebrew manuscripts, instead of “’Aḏōnāy”, it reads, "YHWH! This shows that there are TWO distinct Persons Who are YHWH!

In Isaiah 48:16, we have the Speaker Who is clearly YHWH, Who says that ANOTHER PERSON, “Adonay Yahweh”, is to Send Himself and the Spirit. The context is clear that the Speaker is not Isaiah, or any human, as He Speaks of Creation and Eternity as belonging to Him!

Zechariah 2:6-11, we have the Speaker Who is YHWH, Who says that ANOTHER PERSON, Who is also YHWH, "Sends" Him!

“Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north,’ says Yahweh; ‘for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the sky,’ says Yahweh. ‘Come, Zion! Escape, you who dwell with the daughter of Babylon.’ For Yahweh of Armies says: ‘For Honor He has sent Me to the nations which plundered you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. For, behold, I will shake My hand over them, and they will be a plunder to those who served them; and you will know that Yahweh of Armies has sent Me. Sing and rejoice, daughter of Zion; for, behold, I Come, and I will dwell within you,’ says Yahweh. Many nations shall join themselves to Yahweh in that day, and shall be My people; and I will dwell among you, and you shall know that Yahweh of Armies has sent Me to you

The One Who SENDS, is note the same Person as the One Who is SENT. Both are clearly YHWH!

John 1:1 is very clear, when read in context, and with 1 John 1:1-3, that "The Word", is the PERSON, The Lord Jesus Christ. He is said to exist from ETERNITY, as the Father IS, and is in Eternal Fellowship WITH God the Father. "The Word" is also GOD, in exactly the same way the Father is GOD.

John 1:18, in the oldest and best textual evidence, as even attested by some of those who denied that Jesus Christ is GOD, reads as Written by the Apostle John, "God [the Father] no one has ever seen, The Unique God [Jesus Christ] is Eternally in Fellowship with the Father..." TWO distinct Person, who are EQUALLY ALMIGHTY GOD!

Titus 2:13, is also very clear, that Jesus Christ is "The Great God and Saviour", which is what the Greek grammar actually says. This is even admitted in a note by the Greek scholar, Dr George Winer, who was a Unitarian

"In the above remarks it was not my intention to deny that, in point of grammar, Σωτηρoς μωv (our Saviour) may be regarded as a second predicate, jointly dependent on the article τoυ (the); but the dogmatic conviction derived from Paul's writings that this apostle cannot have called Christ the great God induced me to show that there is no grammatical obstacle to our taking the clause και Σωτ...Χριστoυ (from,'and to Christ') by itself as referring to a second subject" (A Treatise on the Grammar of New Testament Greek, p.162. 1877 edition. - words in brackets are mine)

Note, Winer says that the Greek grammar says that Jesus Christ is called "Great God and Saviour", but his THEOLOGY did not allow this!

In John 20:28, Thomas declares that The Risen Jesus Christ, is, " Ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου", which is, "my Lord and my God". Not "a god"!

In Hebrews 1:8, we have God the Father address Jesus Christ, and says, “ο θρονος σου ο θεος”, which is, "Your Throne O God". Again, for theological purposes alone, some has tried to make this, "God is Your Throne", etc. However, it is clear, as in John 20:28, that we have the where the nominative is used for the vocative, in direct address.
Dr George Winer, also admits that in Hebrews 1:8, the vocative is to be understood. “The nominative (with the article) is sometimes used in an address, particularly in calling or commanding, thus taking the place of the vocative…H. i.8” (A Treatise on the Grammar of New Testament Greek, p.227). Another Unitarian, Dr George Noyes, reads in his New Testament: “but of the Son: ‘Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever”.

We also have in the Gospels, Matthew 3:3; Mark 1:2-3, Luke 3:4-5; John 1:23; "For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying: "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the LORD; Make His paths straight"

This is taken from Isaiah 40:3, which reads: “The voice of him that cries in the wilderness, Prepare ye the Way of YHWH, make straight in the desert a Highway for our God”

Clearly Jesus Christ is YHWH!

We also read in 1 Corinthians 10:9, in the best textual evidence, "“nor let us test the Christ, as some of them also tested ,and were destroyed by serpents”. In Numbers 21:6, we read, “So YHWH sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and many of the people of Israel died”

Again, Jesus Christ is YHWH

In the Book of Revelation, there are at least three references where Jesus says of Himself, that He is “THE FIRST AND THE LAST”:

Revelation 1:17-18

“When I saw him, I fell at his feet like a dead man. He laid his right hand on me and said, “Don’t be afraid. I am the First and the Last, and the Living One. I was dead, but look—I am alive forever and ever, and I hold the keys of death and Hades”

Revelation 2:8

“Write to the angel of the church in Smyrna: “The First and the Last, the One who was dead and came to life, says”

Revelation 22:13

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End”

The words, “egō eimi ho prōtos kai ho eschatos”, mean that Jesus Christ is The Eternal God. The Greek scholar, Dr Joseph Thayer, who was a Unitarian, and denied that Jesus Christ is God, says this of this phrase in his Greek Lexicon

“absolutely (i. e. without a noun) and substantively; α. with the article: ὁ πρῶτος καί ὁ ἔσχατος, i. e. the eternal One, Rev. 1:17; Rev. 2:8; Rev. 22:13”

THE ETERNAL ONE, which can only be used for YHWH.

In the Greek Old Testament, known as the Septuagint (LXX), translated by Jewish scholars over 100 years before the Birth of Jesus Christ, Exodus 3:14, reads:

“egō eimi ho ōn”, literally, “I am The Eternal One”. The Greek verb “ōn”, meaning, “timeless, continuance present”.

What Jesus Christ says of Himself in the Book of Revelation, is also said of YHWH in the Prophet Isaiah.

Isaiah 41:4

“Who has performed and done this, calling the generations from the beginning? I, Yahweh, am the first, and with the last—I am He.”

Isaiah 44:6

“This is what Yahweh, the King of Israel and its Redeemer, Yahweh of Hosts, says: I am the first and I am the last. There is no God but Me

Isaiah 48:12

“Listen to Me, Jacob, and Israel, the one called by Me: I am He; I am the first, I am also the last

HOW can anyone ever doubt that The Holy Bible Teaches that Jesus Christ is YHWH, The Great I AM, The Eternal God?
You deny this "True God from True God" and this" Eternally begotten Son from the Father before all things" in regard to the Son who was.

What I don't get is how then do you see them as the one and same God? "Your" creed has two Gods as nothing at that point defines them as one. You do get there is only "one" God?

The Deity that was pleased to dwell in Jesus in fullness, the Father, cries out I am the First and the Last.
The spirit of the firstborn, Gods Son, Jesus, states in regard to God , "My God, My Father, the only true God who is greater then me and whom I live by"
The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father they are One forever.
Jesus is all that the Father is.

One God the Father and One Lord Jesus Christ.
 
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Romans 8:9

The same Spirit of Christ that dwells in us, also dwelled in the prophets of the Old Testament.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11
The "spirit of Christ" refers to the messiah anointing. It isn't the name of a person. Yes, this same anointing was also on the prophets in the Old Testament. Saying the "spirit of Christ" (an it) isn't the same thing as saying the "spirit of Jesus" (a person.) I think you're trying to prove that Jesus existed, said, or did something in the Old Testament and there is no direct evidence of that.

I also wanted to quickly add the verse I referenced in an earlier comment because it demonstrates that the "spirit of Christ" isn't an actual person, but an anointing. God's anointed prophets have the messiah anointing. Look at the Hebrew words in the below verse for more details.

1 Chronicles 16
22‘Do not touch My anointed ones!
Do no harm to My prophets!’

For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior... Isaiah 43:3



What is the name of your Savior?
What I believe is that God and Jesus are both saviors, but they aren't the same person. God does the saving through Jesus according to John 3:16-17 and this is important to understand. Do you believe this?

John 3
16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
 
You deny this "True God from True God" and this" Eternally begotten Son from the Father before all things"

This is NOT from the Bible, which ALONE is the Inspired, Infallible Word of God! You are more interested in HUMAN "creeds" developed by ENEMIES of the Bible!
 
I really don't get it!
I understand why you believe what you do, but there is much proof that Jesus isn't God because of things that Jesus said, did, or experienced that would indicate he isn't God. It's possible to go either direction with it, but I supposed this is why the hypostatic union doctrine was created.

Is a human God? Is God a human? The answer to both is no and I have found Trinitarians agree with that, however this is paradoxical because it requires that the hypostatic union not only contradict itself, but also be firmly held to or else one must admit that the doctrines that assert the deity of Jesus are false.

Aside from this, as I am sure you have well experienced, everything you said above is highly debatable or otherwise explained better by looking at the context, the translation of an earlier manuscript, or something that proves a particular understanding of a passage to be an incomplete picture of the whole.

I would add that for what you're asserting the Scriptures say as accurate then there can't be any exceptions to any of them. Let's not focus on the alleged "God Man" status of Jesus, but let's go directly to the source. If there was ever a time the Son is not God then he isn't God at all because there was never a time God was not God.

Is there ever a time the Son is not YHWH? Yes. Psalm 2:7, Psalm 110:1
Did Jesus ever (arguably) deny being God? Yes Mark 10:18
Did God ever deny being a man? Yes. Hosea 11:9
Did people ever demonstrably not believe Jesus is God? Yes. Acts 2:22-24, Acts 3:13, Acts 4:24,27
Did many of the things Jesus did others also did? Yes. John 14:12, Matthew 10:8

That's why some people just don't see this the same way as you do. It isn't necessarily because they are "rejecting the scripture" or "denying God" or whatever other (false?) accusations I've seen hurled at others around this forum, but because they are speaking to a broader understanding of scripture and what I would say is the truth.
 
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Sure. So this means that the Father is ELOHIM and Jesus Christ is YHWH!!!
Why is Jesus not our Father but is our Lord?
It means this:
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory for ever and ever.
 
This is NOT from the Bible, which ALONE is the Inspired, Infallible Word of God! You are more interested in HUMAN "creeds" developed by ENEMIES of the Bible!
Yet you have not defined how Jesus and the Father are one from the beginning in your creed. Thats two Gods not one.
While I disagree with you I think your in a safe spot in your belief as the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father and they are indeed one.
 
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