Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

God of the Bible is not all loving.

Donations

Total amount
$1,592.00
Goal
$5,080.00
Hi Padre Pio
There is no need for God to punish the people who do not worship him and always rebel against him.
Personally, I think the problem might be in your understanding of the eternal existence. No where do the Scriptures say that God is going to punish anyone in hell. What the Scriptures say is that those in hell will be tormented day and night forever. I don't think God is the one tormenting them. I believe their torment to be self-induced.

I mean consider what a world would be like if everyone in it had no love for others? That's what hell will be.

God bless,
Ted
 
If god's all loving then he should still love them and forgive them...
This is the problem with the ideal of unconditional love so heavily promoted by modern day Christians (which Padre is obviously responding to, since the ideal of unconditional love is found nowhere in the Bible). It's most obvious with children and parents, where the child does something wrong, the parents punishes them, and the child screams that the parent doesn't actually love them because of the punishment.

It's the cruel to be kind paradox. Just try to imagine what the world would look like if people started practising the kind of love that never punishes or holds accountable those who behave in an un-loving way. When the un-loving happens to you, you will suddenly find yourself wanting consequences.

One more thing, they are disbelievers because God had not given them any solid proof of his existence,
I have the least patience for this kind of argument. As has been pointed out already, Jesus performed many miracles, but that did not guarantee faithfulness, which is why Jesus himself said several times, "An evil generation seeks a sign". God wants us to know that he is powerful, but more than that, he wants us to understand why he gives us all these various commands and guidelines. He wants us to understand that he really is good, and in order to become good ourselves, we need to do things his way.

In other words, rebelling against our creator does lead to unloving behaviour toward one another.
 
This is the problem with the ideal of unconditional love so heavily promoted by modern day Christians (which Padre is obviously responding to, since the ideal of unconditional love is found nowhere in the Bible). It's most obvious with children and parents, where the child does something wrong, the parents punishes them, and the child screams that the parent doesn't actually love them because of the punishment.

It's the cruel to be kind paradox. Just try to imagine what the world would look like if people started practising the kind of love that never punishes or holds accountable those who behave in an un-loving way. When the un-loving happens to you, you will suddenly find yourself wanting consequences.


I have the least patience for this kind of argument. As has been pointed out already, Jesus performed many miracles, but that did not guarantee faithfulness, which is why Jesus himself said several times, "An evil generation seeks a sign". God wants us to know that he is powerful, but more than that, he wants us to understand why he gives us all these various commands and guidelines. He wants us to understand that he really is good, and in order to become good ourselves, we need to do things his way.

In other words, rebelling against our creator does lead to unloving behaviour toward one another.
I'd also add that some Christians believe that Jesus did it all....
and so there is nothing left to do.
They dislike the word Works and Deeds and some go so far as to call doing good works SIN
because it annuls the work of God on the cross.

I sometimes wonder if we're all reading the same bible.
Maybe it's indoctrination.
 
I did a little review. Maybe not enough.

I wonder how much we understand Agape love. Not being a real Greek Language student, I wonder how much I understand?


God chastens those he loves. God can be patient before he makes himself known. God may be trying to get our attention; much like Saul of Tarsus (kicking against the goads).

To wince against all chastening is not always good.

Agape love is the last thing added to faith. Several other things are added before agape love.

Are we listening.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
I can see your point of view but an actual all loving God would love all of his creation equally.

God coming down and performing miracles would be a good solid proof (not talking about Jesus and his second coming). Don't say that Jesus has already done so, even if he did all that it's still 2000+ years ago and it's not a proof for people in this age... Why doesn't he came down in these times and open our eyes?
He will soon enough.
 

Re: God of the Bible is not all loving.​


Definition:
God’s love is an passionless, immutable, holy (separated from evil, ethical Habakkuk 1:13b You cannot look on wickedness with favor, 1 Corinthians 13:6 Love rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth) disposition to favor (goodwill, benevolence, and willful delight,) according to the ethical loveliness and divine likeness of the object which is a bond of unityColossians 3:14 for everything is bound together in agreement when each one seeks the best for others); God himself and those “in Christ” being bonded in agreement.
Simple Definition: To the degree God favors a person He loves the person.


Those "In Christ" God loves/favors as Christ (Upper Room Discourse) and 'all things work for good for those that are in Christ.
Those who are not "In Christ" go to hell where they are NOT FAVORED (loved) for eternity.
 
God does NOT burn his children in hell, Satan does. God does NOT send anybody to hell, anybody who ends up in there goes there by their own choice with full consent.
 

Re: God of the Bible is not all loving.​


Definition:
God’s love is an passionless, immutable, holy (separated from evil, ethical Habakkuk 1:13b You cannot look on wickedness with favor, 1 Corinthians 13:6 Love rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth) disposition to favor (goodwill, benevolence, and willful delight,) according to the ethical loveliness and divine likeness of the object which is a bond of unityColossians 3:14 for everything is bound together in agreement when each one seeks the best for others); God himself and those “in Christ” being bonded in agreement.
Simple Definition: To the degree God favors a person He loves the person.


Those "In Christ" God loves/favors as Christ (Upper Room Discourse) and 'all things work for good for those that are in Christ.
Those who are not "In Christ" go to hell where they are NOT FAVORED (loved) for eternity.
I've noticed that you seem to like mentioning hell. And with no solution as to how to avoid ending up there.
Jesus said to love our neighbor.
Do you?
 
Generic post:
I have read about post 30?
Chastening
Agape love uses rod and staff to deal wit people God loves.

If God loves us we are directed in how to avoid eternal punishment. The rod and staff are his methods.

I am aware King David spoke Hebrew and not Greek. It does seem NT tough love still exists. Peter got (get thee behind me Satan). Pretty tough love. The effect evidently worked. If we are without chastisement we are not sons.

God works to prevent us from spiritual disaster.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
A God that will burn his own children in hell just because they do not worship him is not a loving God at all... In fact he is a narcissist.

Even my mom is much more loving than the God of the Bible in more ways than I can type here.

But God isn't like any other being; He occupies a category all His own. God has no peer, no other being to whom He can be properly compared. Certainly, we ought not to compare God to ourselves. Though we bear His image in some superficial ways (self-awareness, appreciation of beauty, truth, courage, etc, capable of planning for the future, and of inventing things, and philosophizing, and so on) God is far, far, far beyond us in ways we can't begin to understand. And so, though certain behaviors are inappropriate for mere human beings, for the Creator and Sustainer of Everything, the Ultimate Standard of Truth and Moral Virtue, the same cannot be rightly said. Without God, nothing would exist. This makes a BIG difference - or should - to how we view Him and His conduct.

For example, is it murder when God takes the life He has given and has sustained at every moment? No. If all life originates from God, and if that life continues to exist only by His power, how is it wrong for God to do what He pleases with it?

We might watch an Olympic athlete win an event and raise her arms in victory, taking enormous pride and joy in her physical accomplishment, shamelessly accepting the adulation of the cheering crowds. No one in the crowd is thinking the victorious athlete is arrogant or narcissistic; the athlete is simply getting the recognition she is due. God, though, has made the entire universe, by His will and power keeping everything working in the way we've come to expect it will, billions upon billions of galaxies existing and operating with such astounding size, complexity, beauty, harmony and variation that the accomplishment of the Olympic athlete, by comparison, is ridiculously trivial and pathetic.

Many are those who begrudge God His due, however, calling him arrogant and vain when He insists on taking a "victory lap." Though His doings are infinitely greater than all human feats of athleticism, or art, or invention put together, some of those whom He has made and whose existence depends upon Him moment-by-moment disdain His demand for worship. What hubris they possess! What arrogance and pride they have - which is why they so resist giving God His due.

When it comes to the matter of God's judgment and punishment of our wickedness we have again a vast difference between ourselves and our Maker that has a vital bearing upon how we ought to understand His justice. Most crucially, we are sinners born into a world filled and fouled by sin; we encounter sin all around us, participate in it without qualm, and often greatly enjoy sin; some sins we even come to love. But God is light and in Him is no darkness at all (1 John 1:5). He has never done anything sinful, nor has He ever even desired to do so. The thrice-holy God of heaven is unadulterated light, purity, holiness and goodness. As such, God hates sin - all of it, all the time.

How are sinful creatures steeped in sin, and often loving it, going to understand God's proper, holy hatred of their wickedness? Well, they can't, without His help but, instead, expect that God will take their view of their sin, adopting an easiness with it, a winking eye toward it, as they do. When, then, He doesn't, but harshly condemns and punishes the sin they often so greatly enjoy, it never occurs to them that their view of their sin is awry, badly contorted and blunted, but only that God is over-reacting and is some sort of vicious narcissist. Amazing!

The blindness and pride of sinners in this is, on one hand, horrible in its degree, but, on the other hand, exactly what ought to be expected of those bound in sin. The sinner's railing at the holy judgment of God is actually not a testament to God's cruel arrogance but to their own deep hubris and sin-saturated heart. The sinner's objection to hell reveals their profound lack of clarity on the nature of their sinfulness, not some moral deficiency in God.

God is not like the sinful earthly parents we all have, who, in accommodating our sin accommodate their own, whose human love of us is far from holy, far from the perfect moral purity, wisdom and justice that characterizes God's love. To make assessment, then, of God by comparison to sin-bound, earthly creatures is akin to thinking an elephant ought to act just like a microbe, or that a pig-pen filled with stinking mire ought to be the cleanliness standard for the kitchen of a three-star Michelin restaurant.
 
I've noticed that you seem to like mentioning hell.
Yes as it is relevant to answering the question of the thread which is:

God of the Bible is not all loving​


I defined love a holy volition to favor. Since a majority of people go to hell we know the God is not ALL LOVING (He does not favor all). You should address my post. Maybe you define LOVE differently or my your definition of ALL in ALL LOVING varies from mine. God is ALL LOVING in regards to Christ and His lambs ... possibly the good angel. God does not LOVE Satan

Premise 1: Deuteronomy 18:12 For everyone who does these things is utterly repulsive to the Lord; Deuteronomy 25:16 For everyone who does such things, everyone who acts unjustly [without personal integrity] is utterly repulsive to the Lord your God.
Conclusion: God is not ALL LOVING (He does not favor everyone)

Premise 1: Psalm 5:4 For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil [person] dwells with You. 5 The boastful and the arrogant will not stand in Your sight; You hate all who do evil. 6 You destroy those who tell lies; The Lord detests and rejects the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.
Conclusion: God is not ALL LOVING (He does not favor everyone)
Premise 1: God does not LOVE Satan (God's send Satan to Hell for eternity and therefore does not favor(love) Satan
Conclusion: God is not ALL LOVING


And with no solution as to how to avoid ending up there.
Well, solutions for avoiding hell are not relevant to the thread.


Jesus said to love our neighbor.
Do you?
Not relevant to the thread.
 
Yes as it is relevant to answering the question of the thread which is:

God of the Bible is not all loving​


I defined love a holy volition to favor. Since a majority of people go to hell we know the God is not ALL LOVING (He does not favor all). You should address my post. Maybe you define LOVE differently or my your definition of ALL in ALL LOVING varies from mine. God is ALL LOVING in regards to Christ and His lambs ... possibly the good angel. God does not LOVE Satan

Premise 1: Deuteronomy 18:12 For everyone who does these things is utterly repulsive to the Lord; Deuteronomy 25:16 For everyone who does such things, everyone who acts unjustly [without personal integrity] is utterly repulsive to the Lord your God.
Conclusion: God is not ALL LOVING (He does not favor everyone)

Premise 1: Psalm 5:4 For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil [person] dwells with You. 5 The boastful and the arrogant will not stand in Your sight; You hate all who do evil. 6 You destroy those who tell lies; The Lord detests and rejects the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.
Conclusion: God is not ALL LOVING (He does not favor everyone)
Premise 1: God does not LOVE Satan (God's send Satan to Hell for eternity and therefore does not favor(love) Satan
Conclusion: God is not ALL LOVING

Would you say that Jesus is the ultimate revelation from God?

I've noticed that the reformed use a lot of scripture from the OT when revelation was not yet complete.

Would you say that Jesus demonstrated no love for humankind?

Is this what you walk away with?

Well, solutions for avoiding hell are not relevant to the thread.
LOL.
Easy peasy reply.
God is NOT all loving has nothing to do with avoiding hell?

Not relevant to the thread.
Loving your neighbor is very relevant to this thread.
God made us in His image.
God IS love.
Jesus taught us to love our neighbor the same way that God loves all of His creation.
Do YOU love your neighbor?
Are You made in the image of God?
 
Hi Padre Pio
There is no need for God to punish the people who do not worship him and always rebel against him. What actual harm do they do to the almighty God to warrant hell fire or any kind of punishment that's written in the religions books?

Maybe you're looking at the wrong equation. What if the separating the wheat from the chaff isn't for God's benefit, but for those who will be saved? God has promised those who will believe and trust in Him an eternal existence where there is no more pain or suffering from the ailments of this life we now have. In order to accomplish that, then He has to cull out the wicked so that they don't continue in their wickedness to destroy those who are accepting what God has to offer on His terms.

For those people, God is going to cast all those who continue in their sinfulness apart from those who have accepted His offer and strive to live at peace with one another. So maybe God is casting out the wicked into utter darkness for the benefit of the righteous. It really isn't about whether or not God can handle their wickedness so much as it's about providing for His children exactly what He has promised them.

Just another way to look at the problem.

What if God isn't going to torment anyone who is cast out? What if their torment is actually a result of their continuing to live in their sinfulness?

There was a movie years ago, I think it starred Kurt Russel, where the entire city of New York was turned into a prison. Everyone who lived in the prison was tortured day and night. But it wasn't because the mayor of the city was with them and whipping their backsides or whatever torment he might personally bring upon them. Their torment was a result of all the wicked people that were imprisoned with them. So maybe God isn't the tormentor. Maybe it's the thoughts and deeds of their wickedness that torments those who are separated from the love of God. Jesus just said that those who are cast into the darkness would be tormented day and night. He didn't say 'who' or 'what' was the tormentor.

God bless,
Ted
 
Hi Padre Pio


Maybe you're looking at the wrong equation. What if the separating the wheat from the chaff isn't for God's benefit, but for those who will be saved? God has promised those who will believe and trust in Him an eternal existence where there is no more pain or suffering from the ailments of this life we now have. In order to accomplish that, then He has to cull out the wicked so that they don't continue in their wickedness to destroy those who are accepting what God has to offer on His terms.

For those people, God is going to cast all those who continue in their sinfulness apart from those who have accepted His offer and strive to live at peace with one another. So maybe God is casting out the wicked into utter darkness for the benefit of the righteous. It really isn't about whether or not God can handle their wickedness so much as it's about providing for His children exactly what He has promised them.

Just another way to look at the problem.

What if God isn't going to torment anyone who is cast out? What if their torment is actually a result of their continuing to live in their sinfulness?

There was a movie years ago, I think it starred Kurt Russel, where the entire city of New York was turned into a prison. Everyone who lived in the prison was tortured day and night. But it wasn't because the mayor of the city was with them and whipping their backsides or whatever torment he might personally bring upon them. Their torment was a result of all the wicked people that were imprisoned with them. So maybe God isn't the tormentor. Maybe it's the thoughts and deeds of their wickedness that torments those who are separated from the love of God. Jesus just said that those who are cast into the darkness would be tormented day and night. He didn't say 'who' or 'what' was the tormentor.

God bless,
Ted
Matthew 13:28 kjv
28. He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29. But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

If the destruction of evil people were done (now by our hands) it would wreck the faith of believers (evidently).

After the believers are safely in the barn the destruction comes.

The first gathering and binding (to later be burned) ……

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
I wonder if the supreme being has any input into the creation of an individual, and if so, does He know whether or not He will eventually be casting them into the lake of fire?
 

Donations

Total amount
$1,592.00
Goal
$5,080.00
Back
Top