God, the fig tree and Israel

[Gazelle]

These aren't the only references, for those wishing to nit pick.

I found this article and wanted to share it, just so those who think that this idea of "Israel is the fig tree" is some brand new concept by off the wall Christians. I assure you, I am not off the wall in any way. I really didn't put this for argument, as we all seem to know what the non-fig tree believers believe...and you have so stated adamantly in many threads. Please don't highjack this thread likewise? Please? This is just background so you see where we who do believe the Bible speaks of Israel as the fig tree.

Nevertheless, if you only work from the fig tree itself, then you do know the time of year that Christ will return.

In Matthew 24 : 32; Jesus used the descriptive analogy of a "fig tree", to instruct his disciples about how we could discern the timeliness of his return to Israel.

"Now learn a parable of the fig tree; when his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:"

The fig trees of the middle east region are a fruit- producing tree or shrub. The size of the tree, and the capacity to produce figs depends mainly on the soil that the tree is rooted in.

Typically, the fig tree blooms before sprouting forth its leaves in the spring, and normally would produce, not one, but two crops of figs each year.

In Mark 11:13 Jesus, after leaving Bethany, which is just to the east of Jerusalem; saw a fig tree off in the distance, and noticed the leaves that were thereon; and eagerly

looked forward to partaking of the fruit of it as he neared it; yet when finally arriving at the tree, he found there was no fruit upon it; for the time for figs was not yet in season.

Upon seeing that the fig tree produced no fruit, Jesus cursed the tree, with the disciples standing by observing.

He then proceeded on down to the city of Jerusalem, and into the Temple, whereupon he flew into a rage, chasing out the moneychangers, and calling the holy place nothing more than a den of thieves.

The disciples must have thought these actions were the actions of a madman. Afterall, what sane person talks to a tree and pronounces a curse upon it for heaven's sake?

I believe that everything in the Bible, and in the entire life of Jesus has an divinely intended purpose or message. I don't think God wastes his words, nor would Jesus have behaved in such a manner without it having some meritorious meaning.

But, try to imagine the disciples astonishment, when out on the same road back to Bethany, they pass right by that very same fig tree, and lo and behold, it has already withered up and dried. Why would Jesus curse a fig tree?

During the first dispersion of Israel, God sent a vision to the old prophet Jeremiah, of two baskets full of figs. One of the baskets had good figs while the other basket contained bad figs.

Jeremiah 24:5-7: Thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans, for their good.

For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down, and I will plant them, and not pluck them up.

And I will give them an heart to know me, that "I AM" the Lord: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.

Here, in these verses, God likens the captive exiles of Israel to the those good figs in the basket. The Jewish remnant which was still left in Jerusalem, God likens to the bad, or evil figs retained in the second basket.

I should point out that Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon rose up against Israel and took captive all the children of Israel except those princes who were left as mere puppet rulers in the holy city. The year of Israel's defeat by Babylon was 606 B.C. Then nineteen years later in 587 B.C. Nebuchadnezzar returned back to Jerusalem and destroyed the city and executed King Zedekiah.

Remember those dates and the differential of the years as you read further in this newsletter. I have a point that I want to make clear later concerning that time interval.

Anyway, God promised through Jeremiah that he would return Israel once again into the land, and afterwards that Israel shall no more be uprooted from the promised land; and that He would write his law in their hearts.

This promised of course dream has never been fulfilled during the long history of Israel. It is still a future eventuality. But the fact has been historically established that Israel has forever become prophetically typecast, in a figurative sense, as a fig tree.

http://focusonjerusalem.com/israelandthefigtree.html

 

[jasoncran]

in context.

The LORD shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the LORD, after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon.

2One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad.
3Then said the LORD unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil.
4Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
5Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good.
6For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up.
7And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.
8And as the evil figs, which cannot be eaten, they are so evil; surely thus saith the LORD, So will I give Zedekiah the king of Judah, and his princes, and the residue of Jerusalem, that remain in this land, and them that dwell in the land of Egypt:
9And I will deliver them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth for their hurt, to be a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse, in all places whither I shall drive them. 10And I will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from off the land that I gave unto them and to their fathers.

ok then the figs that were taken never returned right? so if this prophecy has dealing with the first exile then. can you tell me why now new testament prophecy after ad 70 is found? and the good figs can only be the faithful jews right?

yes, they did returned and where are these jews dead and with the lord awaiting the bodily ressurection. so that kills your theory as moderan isreal doesnt as a nation serve the lord . she is as what vic says. she has a secular goverment and also has and alllowed islam and all faiths to be practiced. she embraces abortion and gay rights. so therefore that modern state isnt the prophecied isreal.

could it be that god will when he is ready to do (and he hasnt revealed per this verse acts 1:7,8) set up the physical return to the land after his return.

i do believe that modern isreal has a purpose per that verse where jesus says and zechariah says about them(the sanhedrin) proclaiming the lord as messiah.
acts 1

6. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power

now then how could the lord tell them that the fig tree is isreal(which duh the jews no there own prophecy and also figs in reference too) and then say this to them? and all of a sudden john (in ad 68 or 96 depending on what side you want to believe revalation was written.) gets the vision of how it comes to pass.
i dont see modern isreals 1948 miraculous return to a state as such prophecy, she has a part of course but not like lindsey says.

and if one wants to look at promises of last restoration look to the two stick prophecy then, where is the northen tribes that were lost as they are promised this

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Ezekiel 37

King James Version (KJV)


Ezekiel 37


1The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
2And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
3And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
4Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
5Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
6And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
7So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
8And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
9Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
10So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
11Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
15The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
16Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
23Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore

now then one could take this way god is raising up the jews throughout the generations to be in the land when he gathers them. notice the jews serve him.

modern isreal isnt that. she is shell of that if one is to believe that.

 

[freeway]

jason says:now then one could take this way god is raising up the jews
throughout the generations to be in the land when he gathers them. notice the
jews serve him.
modern isreal isnt that. she is shell of that if one is to
believe that.

The Jews do infact want the temple, worship, sacrafice to begin again. which has not for 2000 years. But it is Jesus they must call out to and they do that at the end of the tribulation. Like here in American we where once a great christian nation, but not so much anymore.

trying not to derail..

 

[jasoncran]

The Jews do infact want the temple, worship, sacrafice to begin again. which has not for 2000 years. But it is Jesus they must call out to and they do take at the end of the tribulation. Like here in American we where once a great christian nation, but not so much anymore.

trying not to derail..

i know that and uh do you know what the actuall jews of today espouse

reincarnation, gay rights allowed , all religions are right with god. even the orthodox allows that

where does he say that? matthew 24. so let me ask you this why would god ordain a temple that has been destroyed? he wouldnt.

i have talked with jews on fb and also a member here that is way more versed in judaism then i am.all agree judaism is very blind(the saints i know that know this) so then while do see the possibilty of what you say in part but we cant say 1948 is that event of the yom kippur war either.

this temple thing could be eons from now. they have planned that temple for some time.i do believe that something must trigger them to want to say jesus is the messiah but it doesnt have to be seven year period.

i am not so arogant to think that i have all this figured out.

 

[freeway]

i know that and uh do you know what the actuall jews of today espouse

reincarnation, gay rights allowed , all religions are right with god. even the orthodox allows that

where does he say that? matthew 24. so let me ask you this why would god ordain a temple that has been destroyed? he wouldnt.

i have talked with jews on fb and also a member here that is way more versed in judaism then i am.all agree judaism is very blind(the saints i know that know this) so then while do see the possibilty of what you say in part but we cant say 1948 is that event of the yom kippur war either.

this temple thing could be eons from now. they have planned that temple for some time.i do believe that something must trigger them to want to say jesus is the messiah but it doesnt have to be seven year period.

i am not so arogant to think that i have all this figured out.

I did not say the Jews where perfect. as we are not. but that does not change the fact. God is bring them back from a 2000 dispersion, no nation or tongue has ever been gone that long and retained their nationality.. God is getting things set up for the "Grand Finally"

 

[jasoncran]

I did not say the Jews where perfect. as we are not. but that does not change the fact. God is bring them back from a 2000 dispersion, no nation or tongue has ever been gone that long and retained their nationality.. God is getting things set up for the "Grand Finally"

romans 11

4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

ok i would be one these jews and yet i am told i am not one of them that is in the land and all of isreal cant be a literal all of isreal as many of them die per zechariah . 2/3 during another shoah.

so its an appointed number that will come to believe.


and also the times of the gentiles ends whenever the jewish leadership proclaims the messiah and not before.

 

[Gazelle]

But that number you of which you speak is during the tribulation...and the 2/3 that perish may have had the opportunity to become a messianic jew prior to that...

the 144,000 are only those who are determined to be "preachers" or "prophets" or "evangelists" to those left behind,..that to me means millions more will come to Christ during that time. God is merciful in providing this, don't you think...

 

[Gazelle]

Regarding the temple, the Jewish people believe it is very soon...that their Messiah is coming very soon.

In just the last few years they have done much! It was nearly 2 years ago that they called for all men of the tribe of Levi to come and be evaluated (in Israel) for qualifications as priests of the new temple. In as early as 2004 they began to revive the Sanhedrin and from that created the hierarchy required for the selection of the priests. They did that too...they selected the next priests for the new temple that year's summer (I think it was 2009, but could have been 2010.) and fitted them for garments. That next January or so, they had them return for final fittings so to speak.

As you may have heard, they have had a discovery team trying to be sure as to where the new temple goes, and they determined that it is slightly off from where the gold dome one is... they have constructed a modular temple and have formed all the gold pieces, put in a vault, for it's furniture. They have everything in place now. THEY are ready to go. The Jewish people are ready to begin with their new temple.

(I know this is contrary to some people's thinking, but I can't argue with their ignorance and their delight in badgering someone like Lindsey who told of some of this (and rather than believe it, trashed him?))

 

[jasoncran]

Regarding the temple, the Jewish people believe it is very soon...that their Messiah is coming very soon.

In just the last few years they have done much! It was nearly 2 years ago that they called for all men of the tribe of Levi to come and be evaluated (in Israel) for qualifications as priests of the new temple. In as early as 2004 they began to revive the Sanhedrin and from that created the hierarchy required for the selection of the priests. They did that too...they selected the next priests for the new temple that year's summer (I think it was 2009, but could have been 2010.) and fitted them for garments. That next January or so, they had them return for final fittings so to speak.

As you may have heard, they have had a discovery team trying to be sure as to where the new temple goes, and they determined that it is slightly off from where the gold dome one is... they have constructed a modular temple and have formed all the gold pieces, put in a vault, for it's furniture. They have everything in place now. THEY are ready to go. The Jewish people are ready to begin with their new temple.

(I know this is contrary to some people's thinking, but I can't argue with their ignorance and their delight in badgering someone like Lindsey who told of some of this (and rather than believe it, trashed him?))

which messiah? they preach only one type shall come and he is what we call the conquering king. they never receieved the first one that is what they call ben joseph.


they teach and preach ben david.funny they look for that one though despite already being in the land. but what i do find is that not all jews want to leave america for isreal despite that apparent fact of yours. my kin dont and we( i was) are taught to love isreal.

i got that speech from my grandparents on what the wailing wall was and that i am to go there to mourn for the messiah.

nothing new, granddad and grandpa went to isreal three times and he taught hebrew in the temple.


from chabad.org and what i said is the truth.

Two of the most fundamental tenets of the Jewish faith – as listed by Maimonides among the Thirteen Principles of the Jewish Faith – are the belief in the ultimate redemption, an awaited era of world peace, prosperity and wisdom, and the belief that the dead will be resurrected at that time.
The Messianic Era will be ushered in by a Jewish leader generally referred to as the Moshiach (messiah: Hebrew for "the anointed one"), a righteous scion of King David. He will rebuild the Holy Temple in Jerusalem and gather the Jewish people from all corners of the earth and return them to the Promised Land.
So it's going to happen—that's what we believe. But why is this important today? Why is the coming of Moshiach so central to the Jewish belief system?At that time, "delicacies will be commonplace like dirt." All the nations will "beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore" (Micah 4:3). Humankind will be preoccupied with only one pursuit: the study of G‑dly wisdom. "The earth shall be filled with knowledge of G‑d as water covers the seabed" (Isaiah 11:9).
Okay, so it's going to happen—that's what we believe. But why is this important today? Why is the coming of Moshiach so central to the Jewish belief system?
Because the Torah teaches us that there is purpose to our world. And the Messianic Era is the actualization of that idea.
There are those who maintain that this crass physical world is merely a strategic challenge; one that the soul must battle and transcend en route to a heavenly paradise. According to this line of thinking, the physical and mundane has no intrinsic worth, it retains no value whatsoever once its function has been fully served—it is a means to a spiritual end.
While Jewish belief also speaks of the soul's reward in the hereafter, earned through its toil in the course of life's journey, it sees the refinement of the physical and the infusion of holiness and purpose into the mundane as the paramount objective. It is the sanctification of the human body and the world at large that constitutes the very purpose of its creation.
From the dawn of time, G‑d envisioned for Himself a "dwelling place" right here on Planet Earth. And He put us here to fashion this home. To transform darkness into light.
The curtain will be ripped aside, and all flesh will perceive G‑dgAnd soon the day will come when G‑d's glory will be revealed in this nether-realm, and we will enjoy the fruits of our millennia-long work, the end-product of our labor of love.
The curtain will be ripped aside, and all flesh will perceive G‑d. It will be the culmination of the master plan.
The belief in Moshiach has sustained our nation throughout a 2,000 year exile fraught with pogroms, expulsions and persecution—our ancestors' firm belief in a better time to come, and their trust that they would be resurrected to witness that day. And today, finally, we stand at the threshold of redemption. One more good deed by one more person may be all that's needed to seal the deal.

i wonder they should be looking for the suffering sufferant as he never came. funny the sandedrin havent learned.

 

[jasoncran]

show me where the 144k do what you say as this is all we have on them

Revelation 7


1And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

they die. and are before the throne

and also

this

Revelation 14


1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

both verses say they die and are men.

it doesnt give much on what they do. you dont have a time when they were gathered and i know a friend who is messianic jew and way more into the hebraic things then i am and does the feast etc and thinks these guys are already in heaven and agrees with me that the 144k arent pastors and teachers. and he is a pre tribber.

i stump him and he i when we talk on this. just so you know.

 

[Hitch]

But that number you of which you speak is during the tribulation...and the 2/3 that perish may have had the opportunity to become a messianic jew prior to that...

the 144,000 are only those who are determined to be "preachers" or "prophets" or "evangelists" to those left behind,..that to me means millions more will come to Christ during that time. God is merciful in providing this, don't you think...

So that whole thing about commisioning the church to spread the gospel was a joke right?
:toofunny

 

[jasoncran]

while i dont agree with the way hitch said that. i see his point and one of many points that the pre tribbers must answer properly.

why would god remove one church to make another that does the same thing as the earlier one?
makes no sense.

 

[Gazelle]

Chapter 14 of the book of the Revelation shares more (esp verse 4).

Yes, you all who can't believe in pre tribulational rapture do have a problem there don't you? The 144,000 are God's evangelists, sealed for protection, because the believers have already been raptured. But don't worry, you can still be a mid tribber because this is when these Jewish men will be sealed. ;)

Sorry post tribbers, you have more problems with Scripture than this one!

God's mercy is one thing...and for those who are born during the tribulation, and perhaps for those who are alive but truly never did hear the gospel (having not rejected Christ)?

 

[jasoncran]

Chapter 14 of the book of the Revelation shares more (esp verse 4).

Yes, you all who can't believe in pre tribulational rapture do have a problem there don't you? The 144,000 are God's evangelists, sealed for protection, because the believers have already been raptured. But don't worry, you can still be a mid tribber because this is when these Jewish men will be sealed. ;)

Sorry post tribbers, you have more problems with Scripture than this one!

i am not a post tribber and how? show me the verses that say they do that and again read what i said here about a JEW WHO LIKE me believes and is a PRE TRIBBER!

what makes you assume that they do that? what if they are killed an maryted and are just simple leaders of the chruches? what if they were(since its listed firstfruits of the lord) were saints in the early church?

what does the word firstfruit mean?
let see i will look to paul.

romans 11

13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches

and also

one corinthians 15
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

ok it seems that the later is christs ressurection and with the jews that means these are first in priority in the ressurection but i could be wrong.

hmm where to look.

 

[Gazelle]

i am not a post tribber and how? show me the verses that say they do that and again read what i said here about a JEW WHO LIKE me believes and is a PRE TRIBBER!

what makes you assume that they do that? what if they are killed an maryted and are just simple leaders of the chruches? what if they were(since its listed firstfruits of the lord) were saints in the early church?

what does the word firstfruit mean?
let see i will look to paul.

romans 11



and also



ok it seems that the later is christs ressurection and with the jews that means these are first in priority in the ressurection but i could be wrong.

hmm where to look.

Part of my response was to the other posters.

 

[jasoncran]

hitch as you will see isnt a post tribber but is a preterist.when i first him we had this very argument with me espousing your view.

we clashed often and it wasnt pretty. so i went to look for a good defensible postions in the bible on the myriads of trib theories and found it wanting so far. so i change my position on this.

if you doubt ask hitch and vic and reba and stormcrow. or go to my profile and search any end times post ere four months ago and you will see.

 

[noble]

Gazelle;

This is
just background so you see where we who do believe the Bible speaks of Israel as
the fig tree.

30 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

The fig tree has put out buds in the spring every year since Jesus said that and it can only apply to one generation. One generation sees all these things.

Mark 13
28 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door.

Jesus tells us that YOU, the generation, will see these things. WHich generation?

The one Jesus said the words YOU to in the above verses:
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately,

noble

 

[freeway]

Notice the very first thing and the most often thing that Jesus says to be on guard about it false teachers. That wolf in sheep clothing would come. What things did Jesus mean when he says "when you see all these things coming look up and be ready. Yes Jesus did say no man knows the day or hour of His return.. TRUE.. but Jesus commands us to know the season. Thus the fig tree, His list of things in Matt. 24... Because the Generator that See's these thing beginning is that Generation that would see the Son of Man return. AS Gazelle has quite expertly covered. Why is there a need for the 144,000 sealed "JEWS". Not Southern Baptist, Catholic, Pentecostal, but Jews. Where is the Church. Why the two wittiness. Because the time has come for God to finish dealing with His chosen people. Daniel talks all about this. So as to not make this post to long... and I hate long post.. I'll stop here.. but there is volumes I could say on this...

 

[reba]

Is Israel today the land God promised to Abraham?

Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

What would be the difference if in 1917-18 Britain had started setting up a Jewish home land in Italy? If the boundaries are not the ones of God they are not the ones of God. The boundaries of today Israel are not the boundaries promised to Abe.

Sadly Jerusalem is a divided city.

 

[freeway]

Is Israel today the land God promised to Abraham?

Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

What would be the difference if in 1917-18 Britain had started setting up a Jewish home land in Italy? If the boundaries are not the ones of God they are not the ones of God. The boundaries of today Israel are not the boundaries promised to Abe.

Sadly Jerusalem is a divided city.

Reba true Israel is not in all the land that was given to Abraham, but they could soon be. Have you hear anything about the psalm 83 war. I think this is staying on topic as it is about the fig tree.. God gives a list of the surrounding nation that will attack Israel in the last days, and the Israelies will retake this land.. could be very soon things seem to be heating up more and more in the middle east.. that is in any new paper. The burden of Damscus just one.. can talk on this more if you like..
As far as the land being set up in Italy, I know what you mean but we the USA, the British, and for that matter the whole world is working on God's time clock and plan. not Satan's