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God's Eternal Law and The Law of Moses

jasonc said:
613 commandments
Click to expand...
Jason
I used to teach the covenants.
I checked my notes and can state that the Mosaic Covenant is referring to the 10 Commandments.
Ezekiel 20:12-20 God is referring the the Covenant as the 10 Commandments written on stone.
Ezekiel 31:12-18 also confirms that the 10 commandments are the covenant.

The sign is the Sabbath, which brings up problems that cannot seem to be resolved, at least not that I've seen. IOW, are we breaking no. 4 every week ?? Different thread. I do want to say that it was a Covenant between God and the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.

Ezekiel 19:6
Israel would be granted a moral likesness with God, IF they kept the Covenant.
"Be holy for I am holy", Lev. 19:2
Only through Jesus can we be considered holy. Israel failed, thus the New Covenant was needed - and had been promised.

I do not believe God's commandments include all 613 regulations but only the moral part of the Law, which would be the 10 commandments and any detailed explanation of them.
 
wondering said:
Jason
I used to teach the covenants.
I checked my notes and can state that the Mosaic Covenant is referring to the 10 Commandments.
Ezekiel 20:12-20 God is referring the the Covenant as the 10 Commandments written on stone.
Ezekiel 31:12-18 also confirms that the 10 commandments are the covenant.

The sign is the Sabbath, which brings up problems that cannot seem to be resolved, at least not that I've seen. IOW, are we breaking no. 4 every week ?? Different thread. I do want to say that it was a Covenant between God and the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.

Ezekiel 19:6
Israel would be granted a moral likesness with God, IF they kept the Covenant.
"Be holy for I am holy", Lev. 19:2
Only through Jesus can we be considered holy. Israel failed, thus the New Covenant was needed - and had been promised.

I do not believe God's commandments include all 613 regulations but only the moral part of the Law, which would be the 10 commandments and any detailed explanation of them.
Click to expand...
Isreal was commanded to do the peshac.that's not imprtant ? Nor is the circumcision?

Those two were also given by moses,circumcision was before moses!

I'm saying that the Mosaic Law included the basic 10 but God's law isn't just only the 10 ,

Adultery only is banned,fornicating is banned where? What about other types of sex ,not in exodus ,nut leviticus.

The Mosaic Law had 613 laws .that's what im.adressing.the two do cross over.
 
wondering said:
Boaz,
You read through those books and believe God said some of those things?
I'll be happy to list some for you. Right now I'd say, the ones that don't sound like God said it...
(it's 11:32 pm here -- tomorrow)
For instance:::
Leviticus 7:23-25
Leviticus 21:9

Maybe you could go through these books with this idea in mind and see what you come up with?
Click to expand...
Leviticus 19:2 can't be true because you don't believe the Book of Leviticus.
 
Remember isreal cane out of a broken culture and was very much like egypt abd had to be taught what love is.many of those bans are for that reason.

Normal love was polygamy then.it's regulated but not banned.only the king couldn't do it
 
wondering said:
I speak to this in a different post.
You'll come across it...
I'm not saying ALL of Leviticus is not true...
But you haven't explained Lev 21:9...
Click to expand...
Pick and choose what want to believe.
That doesn't add up.
It contradicts 2 Timothy 3:16.
You need to come to terms whether you believe God's Word or not.
 
jasonc said:
Isreal was commanded to do the peshac.that's not imprtant ? Nor is the circumcision?

Those two were also given by moses,circumcision was before moses!

I'm saying that the Mosaic Law included the basic 10 but God's law isn't just only the 10 ,

Adultery only is banned,fornicating is banned where? What about other types of sex ,not in exodus ,nut leviticus.

The Mosaic Law had 613 laws .that's what im.adressing.the two do cross over.
Click to expand...
This is from Wikipedia.
Could you please post something that states that the Mosaic Coven ant INLUDED all the Torah?
Much of the Torah came AFTER the Mosaic Covenant.

In an article comparing covenants and forms of treaties common at the time, Mendenhall focuses on Hittite suzerainty treaties. These treaties, established between an emperor (suzerain) and inferior king (vassal), were defined by several important elements. The treaties were based on past aid or good fortune that the suzerain had previously delivered unto the vassal and the obligations that the vassal, therefore, had to the suzerain. This foundation for a treaty relationship is similar to the foundation for the Mosaic covenant and the Decalogue, according to Mendenhall. God had delivered the Israelites from Egypt in the Exodus, and they therefore are obligated to follow the commandments in the Decalogue. As the vassal, God has no further obligations towards the Israelites—but it’s implied that God will continue to protect them as a result of the covenant.[8]

How could a Covenant include future regulations??
How is a "contract" made on the unknown??
 
Allen Wynne said:
Pick and choose what want to believe.
That doesn't add up.
It contradicts 2 Timothy 3:16.
You need to come to terms whether you believe God's Word or not.
Click to expand...
I believe God's word.
I don't believe man's words that have been written into the O.T.
It's obvious that God DID NOT inspire
Leviticus 21:9
He does not desire any person to be burned.
Think of how many persons were burned alive in history because of this...
Do you think God was happy about this?

Leviticus 21:9
New Living Translation
"If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she also defiles her father's holiness, and she must be burned to death.
 
wondering said:
I believe God's word.
I don't believe man's words that have been written into the O.T.
It's obvious that God DID NOT inspire
Leviticus 21:9
He does not desire any person to be burned.
Think of how many persons were burned alive in history because of this...
Do you think God was happy about this?

Leviticus 21:9
New Living Translation
"If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she also defiles her father's holiness, and she must be burned to death.
Click to expand...

To further understand the Jews of the day, two explanations are plausible.
1. She was strangled first and then burnt.
2. She was branded, somewhere that all could see for the rest of her life. Sort of what God did to Cain.
 
wondering said:
This is from Wikipedia.
Could you please post something that states that the Mosaic Coven ant INLUDED all the Torah?
Much of the Torah came AFTER the Mosaic Covenant.

In an article comparing covenants and forms of treaties common at the time, Mendenhall focuses on Hittite suzerainty treaties. These treaties, established between an emperor (suzerain) and inferior king (vassal), were defined by several important elements. The treaties were based on past aid or good fortune that the suzerain had previously delivered unto the vassal and the obligations that the vassal, therefore, had to the suzerain. This foundation for a treaty relationship is similar to the foundation for the Mosaic covenant and the Decalogue, according to Mendenhall. God had delivered the Israelites from Egypt in the Exodus, and they therefore are obligated to follow the commandments in the Decalogue. As the vassal, God has no further obligations towards the Israelites—but it’s implied that God will continue to protect them as a result of the covenant.[8]

How could a Covenant include future regulations??
How is a "contract" made on the unknown??
Click to expand...
The torah includes leviticus, then also exodus ,Genesis and also numbers aND Deuteronomy .

If only it was the ten ,then Not a sin it's not to commit Sodomy,aND also incest, aND other things listed in leviticus 20.

Marriage isn't defined by the 10 but is first shown by examples in Genesis. It's defined by the creation account then later the patriarchs had more then wife abd weren't judged.that sets precident.Moses under the torah gave instructions as told By God. Hey tell them this.

Dud God change on sodomy? It's not on the tablets, nor was incest! Surely you aren't thinking that out.

The first audience knew the old stories and of adultery,they knew of sodomy abd it's a reminder but God warned lot somehow as He knew that sex with men was wrong! Joseph knew adultery was wrong. It's written ,yet they knew.

The torah a set of instructions to isreal is to guide them into holiness.

It's more then just 10 other wise I could marry milk subs abd God would be ok so long as I don't commit adultery!
 
wondering said:
I believe God's word.
I don't believe man's words that have been written into the O.T.
It's obvious that God DID NOT inspire
Leviticus 21:9
He does not desire any person to be burned.
Think of how many persons were burned alive in history because of this...
Do you think God was happy about this?

Leviticus 21:9
New Living Translation
"If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she also defiles her father's holiness, and she must be burned to death.
Click to expand...

Hey wondering, I fear that you are filtering what you read in the Bible through the paradigm of this world. What we "as humans" would look around and say "that's not fair." But the Kingdom of God does not operate based on our human thoughts and emotions. His ways are not our ways and his thoughts are not our thoughts. What about when he told king Saul to destroy that People group, (Can't think of their name) but everyone, man, woman, child even all the beasts of the field. You now have to not believe that part of the Bible. What about Sodom and Gomorrah, now you have to not believe that. What about Korah and the Rebellion where God opened up the Ground and swallowed them alive into Hell. "nope, my God wouldn't do that".
 
Do you see what begins to happen when you start to say in your heart "this certain passage of scripture just doesn't "feel" right to me, so I'm just going to say that was added by man. Where does it end? That just does not work! You have to be fully persuaded that the Bible as we have it is the infallible word of God. We don't conform the Bible to our beliefs, we must conform our beliefs to the Bible.
 
wondering said:
I believe God's word.
I don't believe man's words that have been written into the O.T.
It's obvious that God DID NOT inspire
Leviticus 21:9
He does not desire any person to be burned.
Think of how many persons were burned alive in history because of this...
Do you think God was happy about this?

Leviticus 21:9
New Living Translation
"If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she also defiles her father's holiness, and she must be burned to death.
Click to expand...
So ,why isn't it removed? No other ,not even the rcc says that.
 
Allen Wynne said:
To further understand the Jews of the day, two explanations are plausible.
1. She was strangled first and then burnt.
2. She was branded, somewhere that all could see for the rest of her life. Sort of what God did to Cain.
Click to expand...
What did God do to Cain?
Genesis 4:15
Do we know what the mark was?
It could be 2. I don't agree at all with 1.

Please see Genesis 38:24
The price for being a prostitute was being burned to death.
 
jasonc said:
The torah includes leviticus, then also exodus ,Genesis and also numbers aND Deuteronomy .

If only it was the ten ,then Not a sin it's not to commit Sodomy,aND also incest, aND other things listed in leviticus 20.

Marriage isn't defined by the 10 but is first shown by examples in Genesis. It's defined by the creation account then later the patriarchs had more then wife abd weren't judged.that sets precident.Moses under the torah gave instructions as told By God. Hey tell them this.

Dud God change on sodomy? It's not on the tablets, nor was incest! Surely you aren't thinking that out.

The first audience knew the old stories and of adultery,they knew of sodomy abd it's a reminder but God warned lot somehow as He knew that sex with men was wrong! Joseph knew adultery was wrong. It's written ,yet they knew.

The torah a set of instructions to isreal is to guide them into holiness.

It's more then just 10 other wise I could marry milk subs abd God would be ok so long as I don't commit adultery!
Click to expand...
Have you ever heard of fornication and adultery?
That covers a lot of ground.
What about stealing? What exactly does that mean?
I can steal your car.
Can I steal your reputation? Your time?

The 10 Commandments speak to a lot more than what it would seem.
All of what you mentioned is covered by adultery.
 
Allen Wynne said:
The Law is all the regulations in all 5 books, whether you choose to believe it or not.
It is your faith that has doubts, not mine.
Click to expand...
Allen,
If this is true,
And Jesus said the Law is not abolished,
Mathew 5:17-20
Then we should still be following all of the 613 laws !!
 
wondering said:
What did God do to Cain?
Genesis 4:15
Do we know what the mark was?
It could be 2. I don't agree at all with 1.

Please see Genesis 38:24
The price for being a prostitute was being burned to death.
Click to expand...
Where does it say she was burned to death?
Stop reading words into what you want it to say.
 
for_his_glory said:
The only mitzvot commandments binding upon Gentiles are the seven Noahic commandments which God gave to Noah after the flood. I already listed them within the moral parts of the 613 commandments that pertain to Jew and Gentile. The 613 laws have different categories pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite as even some of these laws were added to by man, but yet have no bearing on the Gentiles.

BTW, the ten commandments are part of the 613 Mosaic Laws.

Here are the seven:
Not to worship
Not to curse God.
To establish courts of justice.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.

http://www.jewfaq.org/10.htm

Click under DEEDS then go to the ten commandments as it gives better details.
Click to expand...
I do believe we should follow the 10 commandments, but, as I stated, the Sabbath presents a problem, unless we can accept, as JLB says that they are until the seed should come, Jesus, and HE is our Sabbath. This could get complicated...

I have met Noahists (or whatever they're called) who follow only the 7 have have listed.
Thanks for bringing this up...
 
wondering said:
Allen,
If this is true,
And Jesus said the Law is not abolished,
Mathew 5:17-20
Then we should still be following all of the 613 laws !!
Click to expand...
You are changing the subject.
Here's what I suggest to you.
Buy a large black magic marker, and cross out everything in the Bible that you don't believe is true.
Then you won't have to look at it or think about it anymore.
 
wondering said:
Have you ever heard of fornication and adultery?
That covers a lot of ground.
What about stealing? What exactly does that mean?
I can steal your car.
Can I steal your reputation? Your time?

The 10 Commandments speak to a lot more than what it would seem.
All of what you mentioned is covered by adultery.
Click to expand...
Again fornicating isnt.you.are like most ,over simplyfying.

If it was that simple with Sodomy ,aND fornication, it wouldn't be even mentioned by Moses.

Leviticus 20
The feasts of peshac,sukkhot,and yom kippur,aND rosh hoShanna all had death penalty for not doing that.

Those are very much part of the covenant. No jew ,not even the samaritians ignored that.

No I'm not complicatimg this as its easy to find and openly stated. Context, aND first audience


The church often teaches that isreal was in the dark and God was quick to judge.yet

Noah found grace isn't In the new testament.Moses describes Him as merciful, slow to anger.
The pslams are very much into grace and mercy and most of them written by David.
 
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