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God's Kingdom on Earth

Stormcrow said:
Because - again - the last trump wasn't for us!!!
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Again,had the last trump sounded,ALL people on the face of the earth would have been changed.....Again the flesh age at that time would had ended,and we now would not be in the flesh bodies...

Even the milennium would be over by now,and the full God head at this present time would be here on earth!!!!
 
jasoncran said:
that hasnt come to pass, zinc, that is in reference to the idea of a judgment of all men. if isreal was judged on that level then what of the jews in rome? or other parts of the roman empire that survived?
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I assume you mean the Daniel 12 resurrection. In which case, we have partial preterists reinterpreting resurrections as well as the full preterists doing it!
 
Zinc said:
I assume you mean the Daniel 12 resurrection. In which case, we have partial preterists reinterpreting resurrections as well as the full preterists doing it!
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:lol this is more than a hobby to you, the correct interpretation determines if you come to christ.

ok. the meek shall inherit the earth. if we live forever in heaven. who then gets the earth? somebody dies so that another inherits what is willed to them.

hmm. food for thought.
 
n2thelight said:
Again,had the last trump sounded,ALL people on the face of the earth would have been changed.....Again the flesh age at that time would had ended,and we now would not be in the flesh bodies...

Even the milennium would be over by now,and the full God head at this present time would be here on earth!!!!
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Until you can lay aside your presuppositions, you will never be able to understand other interpretations and how to reach people who hold these other views.

The flesh age (Temple sacrifice) of worship is over. It had to die that it might be resurrected into our current spirit age (Holy Spirit directed). Bodies are not as important as the spirit that motivates it.
 
i dont see a ressurection of the dead like that being ever taught. i listen to an amillienistic pastor and he believes in the bodily ressurection.

jesus ate while in his new body. that hasnt happened yet for us. while i dont pretend to grasp or know what our bodies will be like. it makes no sense for God to redeem creation and in doing so destroy it all. i believe he will purge it but to be done with it all?
 
Sinthesis said:
Until you can lay aside your presuppositions, you will never be able to understand other interpretations and how to reach people who hold these other views.

The flesh age (Temple sacrifice) of worship is over. It had to die that it might be resurrected into our current spirit age (Holy Spirit directed). Bodies are not as important as the spirit that motivates it.
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You say the flesh age is over,yet we are still in the flesh.....You all seem to think that this will just continue on forever and that is just not the case......

I really don't care about other views,it's just one that matters.....

Chaos and disorder will not be in God's kingdom.........
 
jasoncran said:
i dont see a ressurection of the dead like that being ever taught. i listen to an amillienistic pastor and he believes in the bodily ressurection.

jesus ate while in his new body. that hasnt happened yet for us. while i dont pretend to grasp or know what our bodies will be like. it makes no sense for God to redeem creation and in doing so destroy it all. i believe he will purge it but to be done with it all?
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It may not be taught elsewhere, but it is an example of looking at a concept we take fore granted as only applying to our individual selves (resurrection) and examining if at another scale it can also apply to the church as a whole. I believe in an individual's bodily resurrection as well, but there is not just one type of resurrection spoken of in scripture. While these various resurrection types are not only described at the scale of the individual person, they are all types of the anti-typical bodily resurrection of the person of Christ through the power of God. Baptism is also symbolic of death and resurrection, and baptism is also not only applied to the individual in scripture. Surely you don't believe one only becomes a new creature after their physical death. Born again anyone?
 
no, i see your point. i see what you say in the bible and i say that differently. the law was to show that flesh was evil and to condemn men, the act of the cross was to remove that condmenation. paul spoke of the ministry of condmenation vs ministry of grace.
 
felix said:
Stormcrow, let me ask you a simple question.

According to you, let me know a few pending prophecies that are yet to happen according to scriptures.
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And I will answer this question as I have before:

"I don't know. I haven't studied them all."

However, what I have studied leads me to believe that all prophecy was probably fulfilled by AD 70, including the second coming of Christ in judgment upon Jerusalem, when He took the kingdom of God away from apostate Israel and gave it to believing Jews and Gentiles: His Church.

We are the kingdom of God on earth: the body and temple of Christ filled with His Holy Spirit. The first kingdom was natural, the second kingdom is spiritual.

But I really don't care if people disagree with this. Time will tell whose view was correct.
 
The flesh age (Temple sacrifice) of worship is over. It had to die that it might be resurrected into our current spirit age (Holy Spirit directed).
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Paul makes this distinction VERY clear:

{21} Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law? {22} For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. {23} But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. {24} This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.

{25} Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. {26} But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. {27} For it is written, "REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR; BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR; FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."

{28} And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. {29} But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. {30} But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN." {31} So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman. Galatians 4:21-31 (NASB)

Bodies are not as important as the spirit that motivates it.
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This is the same philosophical path the Gnostics began to walk, and it lead to Paul rebuking them in his letters to the Corinthians:

{16} Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? {17} If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (NASB)

Paul places equal importance on both the body - as bearer of the Holy Spirit - and spirit, as that which is reborn through Christ's redemptive work on the cross.

Finally, I would only add that people forget there was a bodily resurrection of those in the grave that accompanied Christ's resurrection:

{52} The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; {53} and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. Matthew 27:52-53 (NASB)

There was a bodily resurrection of those that were dead at the time Christ rose, just as was promised to Daniel (Daniel 12).

The resurrection of the new kingdom is a rebirth (re-creation) of the spiritual man inside every believer, just as Paul writes here:

{4} But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, {5} even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), {6} and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, {7} so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:4-7 (NASB)

If you are a believer, you have already died and been raised with Christ to sit in the "heavenly places" with Him. Your body goes to the grave but the moment you breathe your last in this life means you begin your new life with Him where He is.

This bears repeating: the souls of believers do not languish in the grave until their bodies are resurrected. We get new bodies the moment we pass from this life into the next. That is the hope of the gospel, and that is what it means when Paul writes that Christ "abolished death...through the gospel."

People who are looking for a physical kingdom with Christ on a physical throne in this world are only setting themselves up for disappointment.
 
Is the glass half full or half empty?

Jesus Christ is my King i am a subject of His kingdom.....

2000 years ago Christians were very few in number...We are now world wide...

Women and children have a better life style in Christian nations (even the sick nations)

The medical advances are astounding.

What is the life expectancy today as apposed to just 100 years ago?

When we look at the stock market we can cry over the losses.... Those guys who have invested and not tried to make a quick killing are ahead of the game...

There are many other advances

If a person invested in the stock market the gains have been steady if we look
from end to end and not the short term...

Christianity reads the same from 2000 years ago we have made great strides. Are there ups and downs YES. Christians like the Israelites have to be recentered on God every so often.

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

We (Christians of all generations) are the leaven and we will continue "till the whole is leavened"
 
Stormcrow said:
And I will answer this question as I have before:

"I don't know. I haven't studied them all."
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Thanks for the answer.

So, before you confirm Christ's second coming at 70 AD, I suggest you study the remaining or else you would mislead many.
 
Stormcrow said:
This is the same philosophical path the Gnostics began to walk, and it lead to Paul rebuking them in his letters to the Corinthians:

{16} Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? {17} If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (NASB)

Paul places equal importance on both the body - as bearer of the Holy Spirit - and spirit, as that which is reborn through Christ's redemptive work on the cross.
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Often the clarity of my posts suffers in the interest of succinctness.:shrug When I say "Bodies are not as important as the spirit that motivates it" I am suggesting an alternative to the errant idea that 'change' is simply the exchange of an individual's physical flesh body for one made of some ethereal non-flesh. Being led by the Holy Spirit applies not only to us as individual believers, but also to the corporate body of believers making up the Church. Here we have two types of bodies, individual and corporate, both motivated by the Holy Spirit. God's people are to be led by the Holy Spirit, rather than fleshly desires, or a prideful desire to follow various laws which ultimately can't save. So a Spiritual body is any body operating here on the Earth, whether individual or corporate, led by the Holy Spirit rather than the fleshly whims of man.

Stormcrow said:
People who are looking for a physical kingdom with Christ on a physical throne in this world are only setting themselves up for disappointment.
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Yep! In fact this is very much like the worldly desires of the first century Jews who wanted a messiah that would install them as overlords of the world instead of the pagan Romans. Caliphate anyone?:devil
 
Hi Stormcrow;

I have not read this entire thread it detail ... and I'm not picking on you ... and I'm very new at this board... but I gotta tell you I have caught you being correct twice already!

Back a ways you said 1 COr 15:51 and 52 was not written to us.... BINGO! Being the letter was addressed to the Corintians that in itself is no great revelation but the sentence does say.... WE will not ALL sleep, but ALL will be changed.

The reason this is confusing is because some do not realize what death is being talked about I think. Tis this death from Romans 5

14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.

The death that ended with the last trump of 70 AD...
Then the change is not understood either. The change is simply that mankind no longer have to sleep. We have eternal life ready and waiting. We are not changed from a physical body to any other form..... we live, we die...we live again... good deal, eh?

I like your posts, there are other good writers here too!

noble
 
The death that ended with the last trump of 70 AD...
Then the change is not understood either. The change is simply that mankind no longer have to sleep. We have eternal life ready and waiting. We are not changed from a physical body to any other form..... we live, we die...we live again... good deal, eh?
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"We live we die",.......... Paul said we would not all sleep(die)Once we are changed we don't die,(physically),so what you are saying dosn't make sense.....

Before the 7th trump people died and were changed,at the 7th trump ALL,will be changed,therefore had the 7th trump sounded already nobody would be still dying,as all that is left is the death of the soul,which is the 2nd death........


Soooo once again, had the 7th trump sounded we would not still be facing a physical death,ie death of the flesh, because of the simple fact that we will be changed from flesh.......
 
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