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God's Kingdom on Earth

For you to say that evil will exist forever goes aginst all of scripture....
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What does scripture say about how long free will will last? :nono2

One more thing...

I'm only pointing out what John wrote in Revelation 22. If you have an issue with John, please feel free to take it up with him.

Seems, however, if there are verses that clearly dispute your interpretation, it would be wise to revise your interpretation rather than rewrite the Bible.

For what it's worth.
 
n2thelight said:
Are you saying scripture is a lie,as that's all Ive posted....As for the verse you cited scripture just showed you that Heavenly Jerusalem shall come down........

My question to you is,come down where?
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It is a symbolic representation. The New Jerusalem is the wife of Christ (Rev 21:9) representing His people. Just like the river of water of life representing Holy Spirit (John 7:38, Rev 22:1).

Did you read Rev 21:1?
Rev 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.

This is the new earth which does not have the borders of Israel and it does not represent the old Jerusalem. The law (Matt 5:18) is no more as the heavens and earth are passed away and new heavens and earth are created.
 
Im having a very hard time beleiving what many of you are writing, you plain stakenly deny the Father with your interpretations. Sure you admit the Son, but you deny the work of the Father that the Son came and did in the first place.

1 Corinthians 15:28
The Son in the end will also submit to the Father and when He does the Father will end all rule, power and authority

How can you claim that sorrow, pain, crying, and death will still exist? The former things will have passed away
Revelation 21:1-4

That doesnt mean it wont exist, scripture is quite clear the judgement and outcome for people who take the mark Revelation 14:9-11 and for the beast, false prophet and Satan Revelation 20:10

Pretty sure it still exist, so who is Revelation 21:1-4 speaking of? The kingdom of God, the people of God that may enter the city where no abomination or lie may enter, which means the ability of sin will be non existant in His kingdom forever and as Reba has indeed pointed out, what is the Kingdom of God? is it the city, is it the new earth and heaven, is it land, no, it is His people who are the kingdom and the former things will have passed away in His kingdom.

Want to claim your in His kingdom, go bang your head on a wall and feel no pain, dont be sorrowful for this world, try it, cant do it? me either.
I am of the kingdom of God through Jesus Christ, that doesnt mean i have recieved its inheritance, it means i am promised to recieve it, what do you think th Holy Spirit was given for, it is the gaurentee to the purchased possession, the gaurentee to our inheritance from God, a gaurentee doesnt mean you have recieved what is given, it simply means you will get it.

Its the exact same concept of 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 how currently as Jesus sits at the right hand of the throne, God has put all things under Him, yet God awaits the end when He says "all things are put under Him"
Jesus defeated death at the cross, He didnt destroy it, it is under Him, He has authority over Death, but when Death is cast into the lake of fire, being the last enemy, God will say "all things are put under Him" and the Son will subject Himself back to the Father that God may be all in all which is the description of Revelation 21+

Where not in the kingdom of God, we are the kingdom of God through Jesus Christ with the promise of the Holy Spirit being in His as a gaurentee to that posession.

Esphesians 4:30
"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
"21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee."

Ephesians 1:11-14
"11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory."

2 Corinthians 5:1-5
"For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee."
 
Want to claim your in His kingdom, go bang your head on a wall and feel no pain, dont be sorrowful for this world, try it, cant do it? me either.
I am of the kingdom of God through Jesus Christ, that doesnt mean i have recieved its inheritance, it means i am promised to recieve it, what do you think th Holy Spirit was given for, it is the gaurentee to the purchased possession, the gaurentee to our inheritance from God, a gaurentee doesnt mean you have recieved what is given, it simply means you will get it.

Its the exact same concept of 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 how currently as Jesus sits at the right hand of the throne, God has put all things under Him, yet God awaits the end when He says "all things are put under Him"
Jesus defeated death at the cross, He didnt destroy it, it is under Him, He has authority over Death, but when Death is cast into the lake of fire, being the last enemy, God will say "all things are put under Him" and the Son will subject Himself back to the Father that God may be all in all which is the description of Revelation 21+

Where not in the kingdom of God, we are the kingdom of God through Jesus Christ with the promise of the Holy Spirit being in His as a gaurentee to that posession.
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The "guarantee of inheritance" refers to eternal life in heaven. The New Jerusalem is the New earth. It is spiritual. It is the Kingdom of God on earth.
Notice how the salvation call is still going out "And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev.22:17).

What is misunderstood is that Rev.21:4 is referring to the old covenant- (former things)- with its tears & sorrows of Israel - "and the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads:they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away." (Isa. 35:10)
As in the exile, the promise to those that came through the Great Tribulation was fulfilled. "For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. (Rev.7:16-17).

In saying that all tears, death, sorrow, crying and pain are done away with does not mean that the church was never to experience persecution again, anymore than post-exilic Israel was immune to crying and tears for all time.

These are merely figures of speech describing the removal of the sorrows that happened at the end of the age. Jesus had said, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, not ever shall be again." (Matt.24:21)

And death was thrown into the lake of fire. Satan represented sin & death. And the sting of death was the Law. Both have no more power over us. Both thrown into the lake of fire. All that is left of "Satan" is his "influence" on the vulnerable to "sin."
 
felix said:
It is a symbolic representation. The New Jerusalem is the wife of Christ (Rev 21:9) representing His people. Just like the river of water of life representing Holy Spirit (John 7:38, Rev 22:1).

Did you read Rev 21:1?
Rev 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.

This is the new earth which does not have the borders of Israel and it does not represent the old Jerusalem. The law (Matt 5:18) is no more as the heavens and earth are passed away and new heavens and earth are created.
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God created this earth for us,His children,it shall return to the way it was,before He destroyed it the first time...(not the flood of Noah)

Revelation 21:3 "And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

Revelation 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."
 
n2thelight said:
God created this earth for us,His children,it shall return to the way it was,before He destroyed it the first time...(not the flood of Noah)
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2Pet 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
2Pet 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Righteousness is not going to dwell in our first heaven and earth. We are asked to look for new heavens and new earth. So, scripture says, God is not going to restore the present world the way it was.

Scripture even adds, the present heavens and earth are actually reserved for fire - not restoration.
2Pet 3:7 But the heavens and the earth [which] are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
 
felix said:
2Pet 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
2Pet 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Righteousness is not going to dwell in our first heaven and earth. We are asked to look for new heavens and new earth. So, scripture says, God is not going to restore the present world the way it was.

Scripture even adds, the present heavens and earth are actually reserved for fire - not restoration.
2Pet 3:7 But the heavens and the earth [which] are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
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II Peter 3:13 "Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

Regardless of the testing that we may go through, God's children are looking forward to His promise of the new heavens and the new earth, where there will be no evil. This word "new " deserves a closer look, for it means freshness, rejuvenated heaven and earth. This is not another earth and another heaven, but the same earth made over, rejuvenated whereby the evil and pollution is gone. In the age of the new heaven and the new earth only the righteous and righteousness exists. Praise God, for from here on there is only happiness, joy, and the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Strong's G2537 - kainos

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) new
a) as respects form
1) recently made, fresh, recent, unused, unworn
b) as respects substance
1) of a new kind, unprecedented, novel, uncommon, unheard of
 
n2thelight said:
II Peter 3:13 "Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

Regardless of the testing that we may go through, God's children are looking forward to His promise of the new heavens and the new earth, where there will be no evil. This word "new " deserves a closer look, for it means freshness, rejuvenated heaven and earth. This is not another earth and another heaven, but the same earth made over, rejuvenated whereby the evil and pollution is gone. In the age of the new heaven and the new earth only the righteous and righteousness exists. Praise God, for from here on there is only happiness, joy, and the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Strong's G2537 - kainos

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) new
a) as respects form
1) recently made, fresh, recent, unused, unworn
b) as respects substance
1) of a new kind, unprecedented, novel, uncommon, unheard of
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Isa 65:17 " For behold, I create (H1254 בָּרָא bara') new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.

So, what is the meaning of 'create'? Read Gen 1:1
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created (H1254 בָּרָא bara') the heavens and the earth.
 
2Cr 5:17 - Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.​
Analogize the spiritual change in your own life, once you became a Christian, to the differences between earthly societies operating within Christ's principles, and those still clinging to man's own best worst efforts at morality.
 
God's children are looking forward to His promise of the new heavens and the new earth, where there will be no evil.
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The utopian dream: heaven on earth. Christ never promised this apart from His heavenly kingdom being expressed through His church!

What He did tell us to do, however, was pray that God's will would be done "on earth as it is in heaven."

Why would He do that if He intended to establish His throne on the earth, whenever that would be??? :chin
 
Stormcrow said:
The utopian dream: heaven on earth. Christ never promised this apart from His heavenly kingdom being expressed through His church!

What He did tell us to do, however, was pray that God's will would be done "on earth as it is in heaven."

Why would He do that if He intended to establish His throne on the earth, whenever that would be??? :chin
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Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

So why is this earth still here?
 
n2thelight said:
Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

So why is this earth still here?
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Because - as has been explained to you numerous times - "heaven and earth" are symbolic terms not to be taken literally!

The first heaven and earth symbolized the land of Israel and the Old Covenant kingdom represented by the Temple: the place where heaven and earth met!

The new "heaven and earth" is the New Covenant and is not bound by the borders of Israel, but extends to every nation and people where each and every believer is part of the body of Christ; the new "Temple" and dwelling place of God here on earth!

If Christ dwells in you you're part of this new "heaven and earth": His body, the Church!

Under the Old Covenant, God's glory filled the Temple. In the New Covenant, God's glory fills the heart of every believer!

If you don't understand what it means to live in the kingdom now, perhaps you should seek to understand why. :chin
 
Biblically, there is a spiritual Kingdom, which is God’s rule, in the heart of every believer. This is an invisible spiritual kingdom. In this way, we are in the Kingdom. ​

However, there is a literal kingdom, a messianic rule by Jesus that will commence after His Second Coming when He will be physically present to rule from Israel for 1,000 years and the saints will co-reign with Him. This is the “true kingdom” on earth that we are to be patiently waiting for.​

The gospel of the kingdom is related to his future coming the Lord being the king over all the earth (liken to David being King over Israel). The prophets prophesied of a time when a descendant of David's would take the throne as king. He would be the Lord's anointed, the Messiah (Jer. 33:15-16; Amos 9:11; Micah 5:2).
​
What the kingdom is not- The Kingdom is not the church! If it were this would mean that God is ruling the earth by the Church. There are several distinctions between the church and the Kingdom. The terms “church” and “kingdom” are never used interchangeably in Scripture as are the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven.

Of the 114 occurrences of the word “church” (Gr. “Ekklesia”), it is never used with the Kingdom. The full arrival of this kingdom is when the king that rules the kingdom arrives, pointing to His second advent and judgment. Which makes it plain, the entity called the church is not the kingdom the Bible is speaking of. It is clear that the apostles preached the Kingdom of God (Acts 8:12; 19:8; 28:23), one cannot substitute the church for the Kingdom in these passages. However, there is a relationship.

The church is made up of those who are born anew and submit to Christ’s rulership in their lives which has them become part of His Kingdom immediately and assures them a part in it later when He returns.
 
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The gospel of the kingdom is related to his future coming the Lord being the king over all the earth (liken to David being King over Israel). The prophets prophesied of a time when a descendant of David's would take the throne as king. He would be the Lord's anointed, the Messiah (Jer. 33:15-16; Amos 9:11; Micah 5:2).
​
What the kingdom is not- The Kingdom is not the church! If it were this would mean that God is ruling the earth by the Church. There are several distinctions between the church and the Kingdom. The terms “church†and “kingdom†are never used interchangeably in Scripture as are the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven.
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Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
 
reba said:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
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Romans 14:10 "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."

Romans 14:11 "For it is written, "As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God."

This is going to happen, and that time will not be far away. It happens on the first day of the Millennium age, which is the last day of this flesh age, here on earth.

Romans 14:12 "So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."

Romans 14:13 "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother's way."

Romans 14:14 "I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean."

Paul is telling us that if we have a conviction against anything then that thing is unclean. We are not talking about clean meat, and unclean meat here, we are talking about someone that is so weak that they dare not eat any meat at all, for fear of eating the wrong kind. It is saying then, concerning the higher truths, if someone has a conviction, then they should stick with that conviction, and you should not interrupt.

Romans 14:16 "Let not then your good be evil spoken of:"

Romans 14:17 "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit."

The kingdom of God is not what you eat and what you drink, as far as the health laws are concerned, but it is your living in the freedom that Christ gives. That means that it is living your life with a clear conscience, in the righteousness that only our Father can give. When you repent of your sins in Jesus' name, you will then have peace of mind and joy from the Holy Spirit.

Yes we can have peace now,in the Holy Spirit,however the kingdom of God is not really what this chapter is about...The subject is in verse one

Romans 14:1 "Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations."
​
When someone is imperfect in the Word of God and weak in their faith, don't tare him (her) down in your correction of his life. After all, no one will ever achieve the perfection of God, and we are only mature to the point of our personal development within God's Word. Don't let ones faults turn into a dispute, but be gentle and courteous with the new believer. Be patient with those that are trying to follow Christ in obedience. Remember that our freedom that we have in Christ is through our repentance in Jesus' name, for we fall short of Jesus' perfection. The heavenly Father forgives us of all our sins, for Christ is the one that paid that price for both you and the new believer.

Romans 14:2 "For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

Paul is going to give us an example here. We are speaking of the spiritual condition of the person that is eating these herbs, and to be weak spiritually means that you have doubts in your conscience towards eating the meat. This is stating that rather then not knowing what meat that God approves of, he just leaves the meat alone. Your doubts caused your spiritual weakness. Then taking the meat against your conscience is sin.

The mature person knows the laws concerning the things that we eat, and why those health laws exist. The weak Christian has fear of taking any meat because of his lack of knowledge. When you know the truth on any matter then doubt does not exist, then what you do cannot be a sin to the mature believer. Many people just cannot see why they are continually get sick, and is it any wonder when they totally disregard the health laws of the Bible.

You can't have a kingdom without a king,this earth shall be His dominion......
 
Stormcrow said:
Because - as has been explained to you numerous times - "heaven and earth" are symbolic terms not to be taken literally!

The first heaven and earth symbolized the land of Israel and the Old Covenant kingdom represented by the Temple: the place where heaven and earth met!

The new "heaven and earth" is the New Covenant and is not bound by the borders of Israel, but extends to every nation and people where each and every believer is part of the body of Christ; the new "Temple" and dwelling place of God here on earth!

If Christ dwells in you you're part of this new "heaven and earth": His body, the Church!

Under the Old Covenant, God's glory filled the Temple. In the New Covenant, God's glory fills the heart of every believer!

If you don't understand what it means to live in the kingdom now, perhaps you should seek to understand why. :chin
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So I suppose that this scripture that comes with the new heaven and earth is symbolic also? and if so what are thier meanings?

Revelation 21:1-4
"Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."

Also consider 1 Corinthians 15:20-28:
"But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all."

Now what i italic above shows all with be made alive in Christ, we both know Stormcrow not all with b made alive in Christ through His blood, so how will all be made alive other than in resurrection?

All things are put under Christ yet the Holy Spirit through Paul says "but when He says" so how can all things be put under Christ yet the latter "all things are put under Him" is spoken in future tense?

The last bolding, looks like Christ will give the reign back to the Father when the last enemy is destroyed which is death. Death isnt destroyed, its under Christ, He has power over it and we recieve power over death through Christ but as Revelation 21 says death will not occur again, it is clear currently death has not been destroyed, nor has the Christ subjected Himself back to the Father.

Back to the start of the discussion, if i take a shotgun to your leg, which im quite capable of doing so and so are many others, will you experience pain from the pellets?, then sorrow for being wrong? and finally will you then cry from the pain and the humility of being wrong? All three are quite capable of occuring, you will certianly feel pain, thats gaurenteed.
 
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